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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: dano14041 on October 08, 2010, 03:29:09 AM

Title: First all grain batch
Post by: dano14041 on October 08, 2010, 03:29:09 AM
I am going to be doing my first all grain batch Sat. The recipe and process I plan to follow are below. Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Dano

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Fuller's ESB Clone BYO-AG
Brewer: Dano
Asst Brewer:
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal     
Boil Size: 6.66 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 11.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU     
9 lbs 2.0 oz  Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)          Grain        74.49 %       
2 lbs         Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM)                    Grain        16.33 %       
1 lbs 2.0 oz  Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)     Grain        9.18 %       
0.34 oz       Challenger [7.50 %]  (60 min)             Hops         11.4 IBU     
0.53 oz       Target [10.00 %]  (60 min)                Hops         23.7 IBU     
0.33 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (15 min)    Hops         2.0 IBU       
0.10 oz       Northdown [8.50 %]  (15 min)              Hops         1.0 IBU       
0.25 oz       Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)                Misc                       
0.25 tsp      Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days)         Misc                       
1 Pkgs        London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [StarteYeast-Ale                 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 12.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body
Step Time     Name               Description                         Step Temp     
60 min        Mash In            Add 15.00 qt of water at 166.2 F    154.0 F       
5 min         Mash Out           Add 6.13 qt of water at 207.4 F     168.0 F       
Sparge with 2.85 gal of 168.0 F water.
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: tygo on October 08, 2010, 03:54:11 AM
On the recipe side that seems like a bit much crystal to me.  I try to keep mine to about 5%.

On the process are you sure you're only going to lose 1.66 gallons in a 90 minute boil?  That's about 1.1 gallons per hour of boil off.  If you've tested that on your system then that's cool but it seems like it might be a bit low to me.  Granted I'm speaking from my experiences from my gigantically wide kettle and yours I'm sure is different.  Just something to consider.
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: dak0415 on October 08, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
Your recipe looks pretty tasty as it is, but if you are looking for a Fullers clone:

Loose  the flaked corn and drop your mash temp to 150-151.  I personally use 1.25# of crystal in a 10 gal batch, then add some chocolate malt to adjust for color(11-12srm).  If you really want to be authentic, use only target for the bittering then 3IBU Challenger, 3IBU Northdown and 1IBU Goldings at 15-20 minutes, then dry hop with 1oz of Goldings in secondary.   Also add some Gypsum to burtonize your water to about 100ppm sufate (maybe 1tbs?).

My $.02
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: bluesman on October 08, 2010, 01:49:41 PM
I would remove the flaked corn and adjust with base malt.  I use Northern Brewer for bittering and EKG's for flavor but your hop selection will work fine.  Ferment in the low to mid sixties.
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: cheba420 on October 08, 2010, 03:33:10 PM
On the recipe side that seems like a bit much crystal to me.  I try to keep mine to about 5%.

On the process are you sure you're only going to lose 1.66 gallons in a 90 minute boil?  That's about 1.1 gallons per hour of boil off.  If you've tested that on your system then that's cool but it seems like it might be a bit low to me.  Granted I'm speaking from my experiences from my gigantically wide kettle and yours I'm sure is different.  Just something to consider.

Couldn't agree more. You will most likely lose a lot more than 1.66 G in a 90 minute boil.I lose that or more in a 60 minute boil! If you want 5 G in your fermenter, you'll need to start with more wort.

For the mash, pay close attention to your temps. It's kind of tricky to nail the right temp the first couple times. Have some extra water in your HLT and have some cool water at the ready as well in case you need to make temp adjustments in the Mash! Having it right there makes things easier and less stressful.

Good luck!
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: thcipriani on October 08, 2010, 10:44:49 PM
Personally, I think that recipe looks great. It seems like a very authentic example of Fullers. I don't know if you've ever read the blog, "Shut up about Barclay Perkins" but they have some really great info on authentic ales complete with recipes pulled from old brewers log books. Here's the post relevant to the style you're brewing:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/07/lets-brew-wednesday-fullers-1962-elp-lp.html

You should probably abstain from trying the parti-gyle right out of the gate, though. ;)

My only tips for your first all grain ESB are:
1.) Source high-quality ingredients - high quality ingredients don't really make a huge difference for new all-grain brewers, but you can only brew a beer as good as your ingredients so now is time to start learning where you can source this stuff.

2.) Take notes on as many data points as possible. Everything that is within your ability to measure, write it down somewhere. I typically sit down with my promash recipe and my handwritten notes and transfer everything to the notes section of the promash recipe as soon as possible during, or shortly, after brew day. This way I can see what I did to make good beer. This is especially true when you first begin all grain brewing. The actual temp of your mash vs the temp that promash quotes will give you a good idea of the thermal mass of your mash tun. The actual measure dead space in all of your brewing equipment.

3.) Don't start F'ing with your water until you've noticed something is wrong with your beer and you've ruled out every possibility, or until you get a way to measure your pH and have decided it'd be fun to play with water. You will not want to start playing with water until you get a few all-grain batches under your belt.

4.) All the good sanitation practices and pitching rate practices that you've, no doubt, developed must continue to develop and improve. Going all grain does not give you a ticket to be lax about any practices you've already mastered.

5.) This is something that happens naturally and it is the reason that there is a positive correlation for the frequency with which you brew and beer quality - make mental notes of parts of your process that need improvement. At first, these mental notes will include where you set up your equipment, how you take a mash gravity reading, how to setup all your tubing to ensure it doesn't leak - all the little things that you could not anticipate prior to brewing. Being a great all-grain brewer is definitely dependent on a lot of big things, but what no one ever mentions is that there are a ton of little things that experienced all-grain brewers just know about their system that comes from their experience. If you move, if you take a 6 month hiatus, if you loose the shim that balances out one of your burners you will not be making the same quality of beer as you were making before that event occurred.

My first all-grain brew day was a death by a thousand cuts and I was just lucky it made beer. It didn't seem that way at the time, but knowing what I know now I marvel that what I made when I first began all-grain was even drinkable, let alone as good as I remember it. The main thing is that no matter how bad or good your brew day is you'll be changing a massive amount of process very soon based on your observations.

Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: tygo on October 09, 2010, 12:39:43 AM
My first all-grain brew day was a death by a thousand cuts and I was just lucky it made beer. It didn't seem that way at the time, but knowing what I know now I marvel that what I made when I first began all-grain was even drinkable, let alone as good as I remember it. The main thing is that no matter how bad or good your brew day is you'll be changing a massive amount of process very soon based on your observations.

My first all grain batch barely qualified as drinkable.  I mean, it didn't kill me but...most of it ended up as drain cleaner.  Luckily it got better quickly ;)
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: dano14041 on October 09, 2010, 04:13:25 AM
On the process are you sure you're only going to lose 1.66 gallons in a 90 minute boil?  That's about 1.1 gallons per hour of boil off.  If you've tested that on your system then that's cool but it seems like it might be a bit low to me.  Granted I'm speaking from my experiences from my gigantically wide kettle and yours I'm sure is different.  Just something to consider.

Thanks for pointing that out, the only other full boil I have done, I lost a little over 2 gallons in 90 min. I adjusted the process to add another 1/2 gal. Now it is:

Mash In: 15 at 164 F
Hold mash at 152 F for 60 min
Mash Out: Add 6.5 qt at 210.4
Hold mash at 168 F for 5 min.
Sparge with 3.14 gal of 168 F water.

Boil volume 7.04 gal (not sure this is going to be enough as this is only my second full boil and I am still working things out)

I appreciate you comments on the grain bill, but my LHBS had already milled the grain and I couldn't change it.

When I read the recipe in BYO I wondered about the flaked maize in the recipe too. Then I listened to "The Jamil Show: Can You Brew It: Fuller's ESP" and they mentioned that Fuller's actually used flaked maize for a bit in the '80's.

When I get more experience, and with y'alls wisdom and help, I will brew this again without the maize.

Thank you all!
Dano
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: jaybeerman on October 13, 2010, 02:34:49 AM
Fuller’s uses flaked corn in a good percentage of their brews.  The recipe looks fine; with proper fermentation temperature you'll have a good brew on your hands. 
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: euge on October 13, 2010, 06:12:06 AM
My first batch inadvertently was very good because I brewed in the proper range for my local water. When brewing out of that range is where I hit my major problems.

A lot of brewing is plain technique. Get that under your belt and you'll be banging out plenty of great beer.
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 13, 2010, 10:45:55 AM
Fuller’s uses flaked corn in a good percentage of their brews.  The recipe looks fine; with proper fermentation temperature you'll have a good brew on your hands. 

Fullers used flaked maize for a time but changed back to all barley malt probably in the early mid-90's.  I have a copy of Dave Line's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy", first published in 1978, and there is no corn in his recipe.

The Brewing Network show CYBI covered the Fullers ESB a while back and the podcast had John Keeling as the featured  interview.  There was also a Zymurgy article "Secrets of Brewing ESB" in the Sept/Oct 2008 issue by John Keeling.    No flaked maize was listed in the ingredients, and John Keeling should know, as he is the head brewer at Fullers.  ;)
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: akr71 on October 13, 2010, 02:08:38 PM
Fuller’s uses flaked corn in a good percentage of their brews. 

+1  I've seen a lot of Fuller's recipes that use flaked corn.  I've used it in a London Pride clone and the flavor was spot on.
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: jaybeerman on October 14, 2010, 05:36:58 PM
Fuller’s uses flaked corn in a good percentage of their brews.  The recipe looks fine; with proper fermentation temperature you'll have a good brew on your hands. 

Fullers used flaked maize for a time but changed back to all barley malt probably in the early mid-90's.  I have a copy of Dave Line's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy", first published in 1978, and there is no corn in his recipe.

The Brewing Network show CYBI covered the Fullers ESB a while back and the podcast had John Keeling as the featured  interview.  There was also a Zymurgy article "Secrets of Brewing ESB" in the Sept/Oct 2008 issue by John Keeling.    No flaked maize was listed in the ingredients, and John Keeling should know, as he is the head brewer at Fullers.  ;)


Hmm, cool.  Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know that.  Still, the recipe will turn out fine as is.  There's a corn phobia in the brewing world and while I don't use it ever, I don't think it's wrong for new brewers to find things out for themselves.  Cheers, j
Title: Re: First all grain batch
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 14, 2010, 05:50:53 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know that.  Still, the recipe will turn out fine as is.  There's a corn phobia in the brewing world and while I don't use it ever, I don't think it's wrong for new brewers to find things out for themselves.  Cheers, j
You can use corn in a Bitter recipe with good results, and I sometimes do.  Plan to make another CAP soon, so no corn phobia.

I think Fullers went to all Barley about the same time Heineken did.  I vaugely recall that brewers maize had become more expensive than barley in Europe, hence there was a reason for the change ($).  I also looked at a Graham Wheeler book from 1995 and it has corn in the recipe.

When we toured the Fullers brewery (2001 or 2002), there was a jar of flaked maize in the ingredients display case.  My wife asked about that, and the tour guide looked a little surprised, gave a glance to the case and danced around the issue.  I think he was thinking "We should take that out."