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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: a10t2 on November 25, 2010, 01:06:55 AM

Title: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: a10t2 on November 25, 2010, 01:06:55 AM
Any thoughts on this? I've only done one doppelbock before, but it was a mini-mash and I didn't note the extract I used, so I'm not necessarily trying to recreate it exactly. Plus I'd like to stick with things I get free from the brewery, at least for the base malts. Anyway, what I'm thinking is:

22% Cargill Special Pale
65% Cargill Munich
5% Dingemans Biscuit
5% Pauls Medium Crystal (~55 SRM)
3% Dingemans Chocolate (~450 SRM)
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: jeffy on November 25, 2010, 01:11:53 AM
I've found that Melanoidin malt adds a nice malty flavor.  Can you get some of that?
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: beveragebob on November 25, 2010, 02:29:54 AM
If not dark Munich 25L is a good sub.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: a10t2 on November 25, 2010, 04:00:18 AM
I can get anything, I just have to order online. I've never tried melanoidin malt - does it contribute something different from just using a large proportion of light Munich? I did an Oktoberfest with ~50% Munich 1 and felt like it had a lot of melanoidin-y goodness.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: Kaiser on November 25, 2010, 05:11:06 AM
I don't use Melanoiden malt in my Doppelbocks and they all have a very nice malt flavor.

Sean, I think your grist should work.

Kai
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: blatz on November 25, 2010, 04:31:59 PM
Seems like a lot of chocolate, no?
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: jeffy on November 25, 2010, 05:41:14 PM
I can get anything, I just have to order online. I've never tried melanoidin malt - does it contribute something different from just using a large proportion of light Munich? I did an Oktoberfest with ~50% Munich 1 and felt like it had a lot of melanoidin-y goodness.
Well, I've found that it adds some melanoidin character, especially if you're doing an infusion mash.  You want to be careful that you don't have too much roast flavors, though.  Balance the chocolate, biscuit and melanoidin malts and keep them in the background.  Most of the flavors are going to come from Munich malt and the others are there to add complexity.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: a10t2 on November 25, 2010, 05:55:30 PM
Seems like a lot of chocolate, no?

Yeah, I'm not really sure on that yet. That's what I had in the last batch and it got rave reviews. Probably my most-requested beer ever.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: blatz on November 25, 2010, 06:31:45 PM
Seems like a lot of chocolate, no?

Yeah, I'm not really sure on that yet. That's what I had in the last batch and it got rave reviews. Probably my most-requested beer ever.

thought about carafa?

Also, I would use dark Munich (either weyermann or best) to get the more malty goodness.

Agree with jeffy on the melanoidin and biscuit if used with restraint.

I just made majorvices bock and it was basically 50:50 lt/dk Munich plus some caramunich - hydro samples have been fantastic!
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: bluesman on November 25, 2010, 07:09:49 PM
I'm getting ready to brew up a Dopplebock very soon. I was thinking about my grain bill and saw this thread.
I'm thinking Dark Munich, Pilsner, caramunich and Carafa. Now the percentages are the key.

I didn't think about melanoiden but I don't think it's necessary with all of the dark munich. A very small addition of caramunich for some malt sweetness in the flavor is appropriate. Maybe a long boil (2hrs or more...) to help form the melanoiden character in this beer.

Sean,  I like your grain bill.  If it was a favorite before, don't fix what's not broken...that's my motto.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: Kaiser on November 25, 2010, 11:32:36 PM
Seems like a lot of chocolate, no?

Good point. I'd keep the total of roasted malts to 3% and below. This is just a gut feeling. While there is nothing wrong with a roasty note in a Doppelbock you want that to be subtle. The aging of the beer also helps in lowering the roast character.

Kai
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: a10t2 on November 27, 2010, 12:48:25 AM
Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I think I'll cut out the pale in favor of an all-Munich base, and drop the chocolate malt to ~2%. Hopefully that will maximize the malty goodness while still keeping me from paying $8 in shipping for $3 worth of grains.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 27, 2010, 01:44:20 AM
If you want to keep it all German, I like the Weyermann Carafa II Special, as some have mentione.  They call it a chocolate malt, and the SRM is about the same as the Dingemans.

http://www.weyermannmalt.com/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=19&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: majorvices on November 28, 2010, 03:02:57 PM
If you want to keep it all German, I like the Weyermann Carafa II Special, as some have mentione.  They call it a chocolate malt, and the SRM is about the same as the Dingemans.

http://www.weyermannmalt.com/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=19&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2

+1. I wouldn't any choc. malt at all if you want to stay traditional. IMO the key to a book Bock or Doppelbock is Munich malt. That should be your primary focus. I have made some great bocks that used 100% Munich with a touch of Carafa Special II that were fantastic, though I do prefer a little Cara Munich in there as well.
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: denny on November 28, 2010, 04:33:02 PM
I don't use Melanoiden malt in my Doppelbocks and they all have a very nice malt flavor.

No kidding!  Yours was about the best homebrewed doppelbock I've ever had!
Title: Re: Doppelbock Grist
Post by: Kaiser on November 28, 2010, 05:03:09 PM
I don't use Melanoiden malt in my Doppelbocks and they all have a very nice malt flavor.

No kidding!  Yours was about the best homebrewed doppelbock I've ever had!

thanks. I never used melanoiden malt but have to give it a try some day to see what it is about. I think b/c some consider it as a substitute for decoction it ends up in many bocks.

I'm willing to say that it is redundant if you have a lot of Munich in the grist. Munich brings a lot of melanoiden precursors into the mash and then boil where they continue the maillard reaction that started during malting.

If you are not happy with the aroma of your DB give it some more time at cellar temps. I found that bottle conditioning delays the creation of these flavors. My thinking is that the hallmark flavor/aroma of a DB is created by oxidation.

Kai