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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: bo_gator on November 27, 2009, 12:53:36 AM

Title: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on November 27, 2009, 12:53:36 AM
I slowed down my sparge on 12 gallons of Belgian Singel, and ended up with 1.058 instead of 1.050. Not a huge increase in efficiency, but a big enough spike to notice it :D
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on November 27, 2009, 03:40:36 AM
Here is a study conducted by CRAFT on the poor effeciency we were getting with our keggle system.  It agrees with your findings

http://beerdujour.com/pico-efficiency.html (http://beerdujour.com/pico-efficiency.html)

Fred
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on November 27, 2009, 05:27:05 PM
And if you were just batch sparging, it wouldn't matter! ;) At least, in the dozen or so trials I've done, that's what I found.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on November 27, 2009, 05:36:38 PM
You know Denny,  as much as I love and do fly/continious sparging I now reserve that process only for those beers I make with a mashtun FULL of grain (26-30 pounds).  Otherwise even I batch sparge, though slightly differently than you do.  (after running to clear) I first drain the mash tun (no additional water), then add half the remaining volume I need, and finally the other half.  That way I don't need to worry about how much I'm going to get out of my mash tun.  I 'know' ;) I'm doing something wrong because I use a 10 gal YELLOW round cooler.

Distracted,  in the study we did NOT look into batch sparging.

Fred
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on November 27, 2009, 05:40:39 PM
Fred, what's the reason for doing 2 sparge additions?  Not enough room in the cooler to do it all at once?  That's the only time I find myself doing more than one.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on November 27, 2009, 05:49:03 PM
I never considered the first initial draining as a sparge and did two (I guess I can't count) sparges following that.  I'll try one sparge next time,  I guess it's my lame fly sparge mentality.  These batch sparges are mostly for my "starters" so low gravity is not an issue.

Fred
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on November 27, 2009, 06:52:34 PM
There seems to be a lot of confusion over what constitutes a "sparge".  In my world, I run off the mash.  I may have added water to the mash before that runoff, but I consider that a mash addition, and not a sparge addition.  Then, after the tun is drained, I add what I consider my sparge water.  I do that only that one time unless I'm using so much grain that I can't get enough water in.  In that case, after that first "sparge" is drained, I add more water and drain again.  But I seldom need to do that.  There are some who will take the single sparge addition I do and divide it in half and add "sparge" water twice.  I've found so little benefit in doing that that it's not worth the minimal time or effort it takes, as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: Kaiser on November 28, 2009, 12:33:08 AM
I often try to avoid this confusion by referring to "two run-offs" instead.

Slow sparging gives you better efficiency because the grain bed is rinsed more evenly. If you run off to fast, the wort and water are more likely to look for the path(s) of least resistance.

Kai
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on November 28, 2009, 04:40:44 AM
http://beerdujour.com/pico-efficiency.html (http://beerdujour.com/pico-efficiency.html)
Fred

So Fred, the gist of what I am reading says your research indicated that the best flow rate for sparging was between .08 and .3 gallons per minute.

Playing around with the numbers tells me that for my 14 gallon boil on a 12 gallon batch I need to sparge at a rate that takes ~74 minutes to fill my kettle. And for a 6 gallon batch boiling 7.75 gallons I would need to sparge for ~41 minutes. These times are based on the mean of 0.08 and 0.3 which is 0.19 GPM flow rate as a starting point.


I do not see any mention in this line of thought for taking into account the amount of grain in the mash other than the volume of the boil. I wonder how this would hold up taking a same batch size of say a Mild Ale and a Barleywine and lautering at the same rate to see if the efficiency was the same or not. Too bad I am not the scientific type :'(
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on November 28, 2009, 05:50:09 AM
That about covers it.  Your system could have a different response than CRAFTs.  At the time I did that I was not familar with batch sparging.  Batch sparging here seems to make sense unless you don't have the volume for it.

Fred
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: stout_fan on November 30, 2009, 05:18:24 PM
Here is a study conducted by CRAFT on the poor effeciency we were getting with our keggle system. 
(http://beerdujour.com/efficiency2.jpg)
Fred

Fred, great research. It actually agrees with the numbers I've been getting on my cooler tuns.
BTW:
For 1.100 I repeatedly get 55%
For 1.110 I repeatedly get 44%.
Both at a 1.25 ratio, because that's as low as I want to go.

Just one small bone to pick on charting practices.
The Independent axis is the X or horizontal.
The Dependent axis is the Y or vertical.
General practice also dictates the origin (juncture of X and Y axis) to be the lowest value, which you have done.

You are plugging in gravity ( independent, or chosen variable) and charting the efficiency found ( dependent or the result of experimentation) hence the axes are reversed in the posting.

It just makes understanding you excellent work easier.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on November 30, 2009, 06:21:53 PM
Just one small bone to pick on charting practices.
The Independent axis is the X or horizontal.
The Dependent axis is the Y or vertical.

unless we are talking economics ;D
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 04, 2009, 05:05:13 AM
Since my life sucks, I have calculated the above referenced sparge collection rates into Milliliters per minute. These rates should be the handiest for setting your sparge flow, but by dividing the numbers by (2) you can get a 30 second rate in milliliters.


Collection Rate Range:   Low   Mean   High
Milliliters per Minute:   303   720    1,137
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: central_wa_brewing on December 04, 2009, 05:53:29 AM
I don't care about what everyone says, fly sparging has gotten me higher points all the time.  What it really boils down to is TIME.  When I FS, it takes 1 hr.  BS takes about 20 min.  The point differential is small.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 04, 2009, 12:52:32 PM
I don't care about what everyone says, fly sparging has gotten me higher points all the time.  What it really boils down to is TIME.  When I FS, it takes 1 hr.  BS takes about 20 min.  The point differential is small.

According to the above information on 12 gallon final volume batches I need to take 80 minutes to fly sparge to hit the average flow rate from the chart. I do not mind the extra time fly sparging takes because I can clean & sanitize a lot of fermenter/kegs and rack a lot of beer in 80 minutes. I have a very busy brewery, so I never find myself just sitting around watching/waiting on a sparge...YMMV
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: ndcube on December 04, 2009, 02:48:53 PM
One thing I've noticed batch sparging is that when I slow down the runoff it gets clear.  When I speed it up it gets cloudy.

I usually let it go fast and have the paricles settle out after the boil.

I haven't experimented yet to see if there is an effect on efficiency or flavor of the finished beer.  Would be interesting though.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 05, 2009, 01:03:45 AM
Back when I use to batch sparge I did it the Denny way and drained the mash-tun as fast as I could, but the wort was clear. What are you using as a filter?
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: MDixon on December 05, 2009, 12:26:58 PM
Bo - 50 to 58 IS pretty significant. Of course consistency matters more than efficiency, but let's say that 12 gallon batch was 22 lb of grain for your normal 1.050. That would be ~75% efficiency. Move it up to 1.058 and you now are ~87%. I'd call a 12% increase substantial!

I've never found a really long sparge to be useful. My MO is kinda a batch sparge saddled onto a fly. After mashout and vorlauf I runoff the tun till I see the grainbed, then I slow the flow slightly and start fly sparging. Generally I add water at mashout and probably remove 1/3 of the boil volume with the initial draining of the tun.

stout - I haven't made a really big beer in quite some time but my notes show a 70% efficiency on a 1.125 Scottish 140/- and 65%+ on a 1.102 Bigfoot Clone. You may want to crush finer, 44% and 55% sound really low.
FWIW - I got 64% on a no-sparge (single draining of the tun) 1.054 ESB.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 05, 2009, 04:27:50 PM
One thing I've noticed batch sparging is that when I slow down the runoff it gets clear.  When I speed it up it gets cloudy.

I start out slow.  After a qt. or so it clears up and then I go full out.

I usually let it go fast and have the paricles settle out after the boil.

I haven't experimented yet to see if there is an effect on efficiency or flavor of the finished beer.  Would be interesting though.

As far as I've been able to tell after 350+ batches, cloudy runoff has no effect on the flavor or appearance of the finished beer.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: lonnie mac on December 05, 2009, 04:40:12 PM
I don't care about what everyone says, fly sparging has gotten me higher points all the time.  What it really boils down to is TIME.  When I FS, it takes 1 hr.  BS takes about 20 min.  The point differential is small.

According to the above information on 12 gallon final volume batches I need to take 80 minutes to fly sparge to hit the average flow rate from the chart. I do not mind the extra time fly sparging takes because I can clean & sanitize a lot of fermenter/kegs and rack a lot of beer in 80 minutes. I have a very busy brewery, so I never find myself just sitting around watching/waiting on a sparge...YMMV

Include me in the FS camp as well... I usually sparge for a bit over an hour. Longer has always gotten me better numbers. Likewise I have plenty to do on brew day during the sparge. And after all, it is a brew DAY! :)
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: brewsumore on December 05, 2009, 10:47:56 PM
There seems to be a lot of confusion over what constitutes a "sparge".  In my world, I run off the mash.  I may have added water to the mash before that runoff, but I consider that a mash addition, and not a sparge addition.  Then, after the tun is drained, I add what I consider my sparge water.  I do that only that one time unless I'm using so much grain that I can't get enough water in.  In that case, after that first "sparge" is drained, I add more water and drain again.  But I seldom need to do that.  There are some who will take the single sparge addition I do and divide it in half and add "sparge" water twice.  I've found so little benefit in doing that that it's not worth the minimal time or effort it takes, as far as I'm concerned.

Denny, please remind me how long you normally stir after you've added your sparge water, and how long you let the grain bed settle after stirring, before running off the sparge.  I've been stirring for about five minutes (usually 25 - 35 lbs malt for 10 - 12 gallon batches) using a big mash paddle and waiting for at least 10 minutes after that before running off.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 05, 2009, 10:55:33 PM
Denny, please remind me how long you normally stir after you've added your sparge water,

Maybe a minute or two...

and how long you let the grain bed settle after stirring, before running off the sparge. 

No time at all....I start running of right after stirring in the sparge water

I've been stirring for about five minutes (usually 25 - 35 lbs malt for 10 - 12 gallon batches) using a big mash paddle and waiting for at least 10 minutes after that before running off.

I usually use more in the 16 lb. of malt for 5 gal. range.  You may need to stir a bit longer with your volume, but maybe not.  The key isn't the amount of time, but just making sure you get the water and grain thoroughly mixed.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: brewsumore on December 05, 2009, 11:08:58 PM
Thanks!  I think I'll stir a bit less time and see how it goes - it seems to improve my efficiency if I stir well.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 05, 2009, 11:22:27 PM
All I can tell you is that it doesn't make a difference in efficiency in my setup.  The last batch I brewed had such a crazy high efficiency (according to Promash) that I'm afraid to mention it....
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: brewsumore on December 05, 2009, 11:28:49 PM
Yeah - I've seen your numbers - off the top of my head I recall you get 83% brewhouse efficiency for 1.065.  I've been getting around 72%, and my last beer was 1.081 OG and I got 70% efficiency - WITH a blue cooler.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on December 05, 2009, 11:39:00 PM
While you can use that study to glean some general info, the study was performed on one system, with the grain bills and crush, false bottom etc. on that one system.  If you want to know what your system is doing you will need to measure it and perform a similar study.

or

you could just brew the Denny way.

Fred
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 06, 2009, 01:57:34 PM
While you can use that study to glean some general info, the study was performed on one system, with the grain bills and crush, false bottom etc. on that one system.  If you want to know what your system is doing you will need to measure it and perform a similar study.

or

you could just brew the Denny way.

Fred

The best thing about the Denny brew system  is that it makes going all-grain easy and less intimidating. If it had not been for Denny's old web-site (not been to the new one) I would have brewed my 30-40 extract beers and got bored with them and given up on home brewing several years ago.I will always be grateful for that :D

As much fun as it was to build the spread sheet in excel, I am working on collecting raw data for my system which hopefully will translate well across the B3 sculpture line. My last brew session of Friday my sparge pump stroked me and I was not able to get any real info from it. I had primed my sparge pump and left the mash-tun valve open while waiting on the sparge water to finish heating up, and I'll be if 2-3 gallons of wort did not flow through from the mash-tun over to the boil kettle by itself with flow control at all.  There is always next time I guess.  ;D
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 06, 2009, 05:01:25 PM
If it had not been for Denny's old web-site (not been to the new one)

Bo, I'm confused (not that that's difficult!).  The 2 websites are exactly the same....
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on December 06, 2009, 05:39:13 PM
To defend "fly/continuous" sparging. . .

Fly sparging can be either really really simple, or you can make it nuclear science, your choice.  I prefer the simple approach.
At some point I'll have to put together a website.  Has anyone done that for Batch Sparging?  ;)

My sparge arm is my right arm, literally.  I place a spaghetti strainer on top of the grain bed ad use a 2 qt plastic picture to move my sparge water from my HLT into my mash/lauter tun (10 gallon round cooler with a domed false bottom.  Palmer's book has instructions for building and designing a slotted manifold for either rectangular or round coolers.  Not quite as simple as Denny's braid, but close. 

Procedure,  I sparge with no additional water until the wort level is at/just below the grain bed.  At this point I rapidly dump (pour) sparge water into the strainer on top of the grain bed.  How much?  It doesn't matter!!  just keep water over the grain bed, anything from .5 inch to 12 inches is fine.

Sparge rate is slow enough to not channel, which is what this thread is really about.

Measuring your results will show you how fast you can sparge on your system. 

Simple yes,  but for beginners I send them to Denny's site


Fred
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 06, 2009, 05:46:39 PM
Fred, that's just the way I used to fly sparge and one of the main reasons I switched over to batch sparging when I first read about it.

And I don't think there's any need to defend any type of sparging...for God's sake, it's just a way to get sugar from grain!  :)
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 06, 2009, 06:28:15 PM
If it had not been for Denny's old web-site (not been to the new one)

Bo, I'm confused (not that that's difficult!).  The 2 websites are exactly the same....
I thought you had changed it when you switched the domain name.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 06, 2009, 06:30:22 PM
Nope.  Just redirected the new domain name to the old website.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bonjour on December 06, 2009, 10:59:54 PM
Defense may be too strong a term.
More and more as I brew my "starters" I batch sparge, mostly because I can ignore it a little more, and believe me, I tend to ignore my fly sparges,

My big beers, with approximately a half sack of grain for a 5 gallon batch, I have to fly sparge.  There is no extra room.

I never see anyone talking about how easy fly sparging is.  I often feel an urge to talk about it when I get a chance.

Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: lonnie mac on December 06, 2009, 11:11:41 PM
Defense may be too strong a term.
More and more as I brew my "starters" I batch sparge, mostly because I can ignore it a little more, and believe me, I tend to ignore my fly sparges,

My big beers, with approximately a half sack of grain for a 5 gallon batch, I have to fly sparge.  There is no extra room.

I never see anyone talking about how easy fly sparging is.  I often feel an urge to talk about it when I get a chance.



I have espoused the ease of fly sparging in the past, but I agree... You never hear how easy it is often enough. Dang, it is as simple as it gets for me... I actually find a lot of relaxation watching my whirlygig go round and round! :) Anyone that knows me knows that the last thing I care about is efficiency too. Though I can get numbers easily into the 80's, that is not my goal. I fly because that is how I have always done it...

Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 07, 2009, 01:37:31 AM
I agree Fred and Lonnie, I think one of the problems is that to a "newbie" a write up describing fly sparging reads more complicated than it is. Even Charlie P. who is a very good entertaining writer seems to make  fly sparging seem complicated in the Complete Joy of Homebrewing. IMO this is where Denny's genius shows a little on his site...he explains it so simply with non-confusing words which keeps people from getting intimidated.

Maybe one of you two can put something up on this here interweb thingy that can help new people not be intimidated by the whole "you must keep an inch of water on top of the grain bed wile not allowing the drain to channel" Sure that sentence makes sense to people that have brew a few all-grain batches, but when you have never done a mash it seems complicated and confusing :D
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: k4df4l on December 07, 2009, 11:17:14 AM
Maybe one of you two can put something up on this here interweb thingy that can help new people not be intimidated by the whole "you must keep an inch of water on top of the grain bed wile not allowing the drain to channel" Sure that sentence makes sense to people that have brew a few all-grain batches, but when you have never done a mash it seems complicated and confusing :D

I can only speak to where my head was when I started AG brewing, but I was pretty overwhelmed by all the new information just from basic AG brewing that anything that made the process even 1 step more complex (or potentially more expensive as well) was out of the question.  Batch sparging, Denny's page specifically, made sense & kept the process minimalistic in my mind.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: ndcube on December 07, 2009, 01:02:01 PM
Back when I use to batch sparge I did it the Denny way and drained the mash-tun as fast as I could, but the wort was clear. What are you using as a filter?

Just an SS braid.  I think I crush around .030" so maybe that makes it a little dustier.  What were you crushing at when you batch sparged?
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: stout_fan on December 07, 2009, 02:27:37 PM
... use a 2 qt plastic picture to move my sparge water ...

Fred
I'm trying to pitcher this in my mind... :D
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: MDixon on December 07, 2009, 03:07:13 PM
Maybe one of you two can put something up on this here interweb thingy that can help new people not be intimidated by the whole "you must keep an inch of water on top of the grain bed wile not allowing the drain to channel" Sure that sentence makes sense to people that have brew a few all-grain batches, but when you have never done a mash it seems complicated and confusing :D

It's been up since 2002 - see Setup and Mashing Techniques off my page www.ipass.net/mpdixon  ;)
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 07, 2009, 04:48:04 PM
I agree that fly sparging is not all that difficult.  But after I tried fly sparging, I found batch sparging to be much easier for me.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 07, 2009, 04:56:13 PM
Back when I use to batch sparge I did it the Denny way and drained the mash-tun as fast as I could, but the wort was clear. What are you using as a filter?

Just an SS braid.  I think I crush around .030" so maybe that makes it a little dustier.  What were you crushing at when you batch sparged?

0.035 IRC it is still at the factory setting for a two roller Cranknstein.

Are you talking about cloudy wort or wort with chunks floating it?
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: ndcube on December 07, 2009, 04:59:43 PM
Back when I use to batch sparge I did it the Denny way and drained the mash-tun as fast as I could, but the wort was clear. What are you using as a filter?

Just an SS braid.  I think I crush around .030" so maybe that makes it a little dustier.  What were you crushing at when you batch sparged?

0.035 IRC it is still at the factory setting for a two roller Cranknstein.

Are you talking about cloudy wort or wort with chunks floating it?

No chunks.  Just cloudy/floury.  It's clear after the boil.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 07, 2009, 09:30:33 PM
Back when I use to batch sparge I did it the Denny way and drained the mash-tun as fast as I could, but the wort was clear. What are you using as a filter?

Just an SS braid.  I think I crush around .030" so maybe that makes it a little dustier.  What were you crushing at when you batch sparged?

0.035 IRC it is still at the factory setting for a two roller Cranknstein.

Are you talking about cloudy wort or wort with chunks floating it?

No chunks.  Just cloudy/floury.  It's clear after the boil.

Mine was cloudy before the boil too,I thought you meant pieces of grain floating in the run-off
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: wilypig on December 08, 2009, 07:10:23 PM
I was just reading the thoughts on sparge methods. I have modified my method recently so I do not have to lift 12 gallons of 180 degree water over my head. I just keep a pot on a burner at 180 degrees and use a pitcher to add water as necessary. This allows me to ensure the water that is added for sparge is at the correct temperature. I found that the loss of temp from a HLT to the mash tun was unacceptable and allowed the mash temp to drop below 150 degrees. 150 degrees is the optimum temp for sugar to enter solution. I prefer to not batch sparge because I do not like to stir and vorlauf that much.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: denny on December 09, 2009, 04:34:25 PM
You need to take a look at Kai Troester's groundbreaking work on "cold sparging".  He basically found that a lower sparge temp doesn't bot affect efficiency.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: ndcube on December 09, 2009, 04:41:57 PM
I heard that if you can hold more than 12 gallons over your head then your efficiency goes up.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: MDixon on December 09, 2009, 08:03:57 PM
You need to take a look at Kai Troester's groundbreaking work on "cold sparging".  He basically found that a lower sparge temp doesn't bot affect efficiency.

A retired homebrewer I know had the idea that if one mashed out and then sparged they could use water from their hot water heater. Of course that would certainly increase the viscosity somewhat being 135F or so as opposed to 170F. I long dreamed of using an instant hot water heater for the sparge, but the temps out of range. Since I now have one at home I may have to jack up the temp on that puppy to 140F and give it a whirl. If nothing else I might devise a method to fill the sparge kettle with 140F water. Going from 140F to 170F is a snap!
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: brewsumore on December 10, 2009, 03:01:24 AM
I personally prefer to heat cold (filtered) tap water to ensure getting water that I want to drink when it's been turned into beer - I don't like the idea of drinking hot water out of the water heater.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: MDixon on December 10, 2009, 01:46:55 PM
I personally prefer to heat cold (filtered) tap water to ensure getting water that I want to drink when it's been turned into beer - I don't like the idea of drinking hot water out of the water heater.

Instant hot water heater. Basically a ring heats the water as it flows. It's not like a tank of water waiting to be used.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: dbeechum on December 10, 2009, 04:56:51 PM
Even though it doesn't really apply to the home units - I know the Bruery uses a set of chained instant heaters to create all of its strike and sparge water. Pretty slick actually.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: MDixon on December 11, 2009, 12:25:14 PM
In the "made you look" category, I checked and my unit can be outfitted for commercial use to go to 185F. Of course it has some kind of limit for home use which caused it to top out at 140F.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: dbeechum on December 11, 2009, 07:35:48 PM
In the "made you look" category, I checked and my unit can be outfitted for commercial use to go to 185F. Of course it has some kind of limit for home use which caused it to top out at 140F.

Sounds like its time to attack with a screwdriver!
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 18, 2009, 06:52:18 PM
Wednesday I brewed a 12 gallon batch of a Vienna Lager I brewed late last year which scored very well. I sparged for 85-90 minutes and my pre-boil gravity was 11 points higher than BeerSmith predicted, and my post boil OG was right at 10 points high. Long story short my efficiency going into the kettle was 85%, and I didn't run the numbers,but assume it was about the same going into the fermenter. I guess next time I brew I'll have sparge a bit faster to get my efficiency back down to the low to mid 70s.  ???  
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: Kaiser on December 18, 2009, 07:01:22 PM
I guess next time I brew I'll have sparge a bit faster to get my efficiency back down to the low to mid 70s.  ??? 

This is another invalid conclusion from the infamous “70% is always good rule”. What is happening when you sparge fact is that your grain bed develops channels. The sparge water will prefer theses areas and can oversparge them. This means you extract excessive tannins in these regions while other regions are still full with sugar. As a result you may actually end up with more tannins in the 70% beer than you have in the 80% beer done with slow lautering.

If you want to bring down your efficiency by reducing the efficiency I suggest using more strike and less sparge water. That limits the amount of sparging you can do. Alternatively you can also stop the slow sparge once you have your 70 % in the kettle and top off with water.

Or, of the beer is excellent at your 80% just accept the fact that you are getting 80%.

Kai
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on December 18, 2009, 07:12:57 PM
I would agree that 80% is very nice efficiency.
Adjust your grain bill that you will hit your OG with that efficiency.
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: beersk on December 18, 2009, 07:53:10 PM
I would agree that 80% is very nice efficiency.
Adjust your grain bill that you will hit your OG with that efficiency.

Yeah no kidding...must be a nice "problem" to have  ::)
Title: Re: Slowed down my sparge,and got a boost
Post by: bo_gator on December 19, 2009, 01:15:50 AM

Or, of the beer is excellent at your 80% just accept the fact that you are getting 80%.

Kai

This probably what I am going to do once I get a taste of the 80% beers.