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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: tubercle on December 14, 2010, 10:51:27 pm

Title: Language Revived
Post by: tubercle on December 14, 2010, 10:51:27 pm
 As of late, the Tubercle has been a student of the historical record, as he has been engaged the majority of his life, and as a result will attempt to resurrect the prose and poetry of the human language so long lost, especially due to the curt and short modifications deemed necessary by the populace of the electronic realm, and will communicate in a more stately manner better befitting the level of gentleness such as us, and will shun the vulgar attempt of lesser beings.

 This will require, in the modern teaching, a breach of run on sentences; the patience of my fellow brewers will be required as this task is taken on, but is necessary lest we discard our inheritance and condemn that which has brought us to our present state of indulgence.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: corkybstewart on December 14, 2010, 10:57:27 pm

ummm,
ok
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: weazletoe on December 14, 2010, 11:13:36 pm
But, you still like turtles, right?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 14, 2010, 11:16:31 pm
Glad to hear it Tubercle.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: Mikey on December 15, 2010, 12:05:38 am
As of late, the Tubercle has been a student of the historical record, as he has been engaged the majority of his life, and as a result will attempt to resurrect the prose and poetry of the human language so long lost, especially due to the curt and short modifications deemed necessary by the populace of the electronic realm, and will communicate in a more stately manner better befitting the level of gentleness such as us, and will shun the vulgar attempt of lesser beings.

 This will require, in the modern teaching, a breach of run on sentences; the patience of my fellow brewers will be required as this task is taken on, but is necessary lest we discard our inheritance and condemn that which has brought us to our present state of indulgence.

But what do you think of this?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 12:16:19 am
As of late, the Tubercle has been a student of the historical record, as he has been engaged the majority of his life, and as a result will attempt to resurrect the prose and poetry of the human language so long lost...

The human language...?  Would that be the one language - prior to Nimrod and his tower?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: kerneldustjacket on December 15, 2010, 12:45:20 am
So a turn to a more asiatic style versus a senecan style? Or perhaps better to say asiatic as opposed to attic style?
I love it...just promise you won't stop referring to yourself using third person narrative...
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: oscarvan on December 15, 2010, 03:16:03 am
I agree with the Tubercle that language is severely under attack. In fact, on other forums I have been accused of being the......

(http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/PicPages/Linkto-2_files/GrammarPolice-799780.png)

But someone has to do it. As much as we all have our pet issues where we feel our personal liberties have been curtailed, and often they have, the bottom line is that we can spend a peaceful afternoon brewing beer without getting shot at because we live in a society based in law, and law would not be possible without language. "Hey you, gimme the thing, you know".... No, I don't know. Words matter. What you said and what you meant is not always the same, and it is important to care.

Therefore, unto you, my dear Tubercle, I express my appreciation and admiration for having the awareness and concern that language does matter. Together we shall stand, side by side and deliver blow upon blow to the "free gifts" the "irregardless" the "freind" and the generally morsose. Onward, forward........
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: majorvices on December 15, 2010, 03:57:27 am
As of late, the Tubercle has been a student of the historical record, as he has been engaged the majority of his life, and as a result will attempt to resurrect the prose and poetry of the human language so long lost, especially due to the curt and short modifications deemed necessary by the populace of the electronic realm, and will communicate in a more stately manner better befitting the level of gentleness such as us, and will shun the vulgar attempt of lesser beings.

 This will require, in the modern teaching, a breach of run on sentences; the patience of my fellow brewers will be required as this task is taken on, but is necessary lest we discard our inheritance and condemn that which has brought us to our present state of indulgence.

OMG! WTF?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: beerocd on December 15, 2010, 03:58:03 am
As of late, the Tubercle has been a student of the historical record, as he has been engaged the majority of his life, and as a result will attempt to resurrect the prose and poetry of the human language so long lost, especially due to the curt and short modifications deemed necessary by the populace of the electronic realm, and will communicate in a more stately manner better befitting the level of gentleness such as us, and will shun the vulgar attempt of lesser beings.

 This will require, in the modern teaching, a breach of run on sentences; the patience of my fellow brewers will be required as this task is taken on, but is necessary lest we discard our inheritance and condemn that which has brought us to our present state of indulgence.

OMG! WTF?
+1
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tubercle on December 15, 2010, 04:02:37 am
The human language...?  Would that be the one language - prior to Nimrod and his tower?

  Just a small portion of Nimrod's language, a version of which I have had the privilege of learning and which has mutated somewhat from the original that was confounded.

But, you still like turtles, right?

 Hell yea...er...Of course, my good man.


Alright. No more. Trying to talk like the founding fathers makes my head hurt. That is what happens when you spend the afternoon reading the Federalist Papers.

 I does sound cool though. I was wanting to practice so I could freak my boss lady out :D

Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: rabid_dingo on December 15, 2010, 04:48:56 am
(http://www.shoeboxblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/intentional-typo-499x498.jpg)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: euge on December 15, 2010, 06:05:54 am
That's great. ;D

And to think people spoke like that too. Probably the main cause of duels...
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 07:32:13 am
I agree with the Tubercle that language is severely under attack. In fact, on other forums I have been accused of being the......

(http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/PicPages/Linkto-2_files/GrammarPolice-799780.png)

Together we shall stand, side by side and deliver blow upon blow to the "free gifts" the "irregardless" the "freind" and the generally morsose. Onward, forward........

"Completely destroy"
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: theoman on December 15, 2010, 11:45:32 am
Alright. No more.


Don't give it up completely. Your use of the semicolon was exquisite.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: Kaiser on December 15, 2010, 01:43:14 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: kerneldustjacket on December 15, 2010, 01:55:20 pm
"Hey you, gimme the thing, you know".... No, I don't know.

I give the guys I supervise a hard time regarding their overuse of pronouns...they seem to think I can see into their head and therefore know what they're trying to communicate. But they've caught on and have even turned the tables on me when I do the same thing!

Good language -- written and spoken -- is a grand thing; I learned a love for it in college...I minored in writing, studied rhetoric, and had several 20th century philosophy classes that invariably touched on philosophers who critically examined language. (Jacgues Derrida comes to mind) So please,  tubercle, don't drop the idea entirely; slip it in once and a while to humor us.

By the way oscarvan...what is "morsose."  ;D <couldn't resist!>
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: weazletoe on December 15, 2010, 03:14:55 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai


You say that, yet use the phrase "akin to formal conversation"...... :-\
   Do you like turtles still, too?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: nicneufeld on December 15, 2010, 03:42:18 pm
P.G. Wodehouse was the single best composer of the English language, in a musical sense.  His writing flows like effortless music.  Hats off to Plum.

Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: Kaiser on December 15, 2010, 03:53:14 pm
You say that, yet use the phrase "akin to formal conversation"...... :-\
   Do you like turtles still, too?

See, I didn't even get this reference :) Which shows how little I know about the subtleties of the English language. Would have "similar to formal verification" be a better choice.

But I like to annoy my wife by pointing out the correct use of "who" and "whom" :).  To those who don't know this, English is not my native language, hence the struggle with its grammar and the correct use.

Kai
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: majorvices on December 15, 2010, 04:34:19 pm
I be diggin' this thread.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tumarkin on December 15, 2010, 04:46:38 pm
just keep in mind that language is a living thing, and changes with time. some may consider that we're on a downward trend. certainly use of digital communications like email, texting etc is hastening the change (for better or worse). I used to have a good command of written and spoken english (in an academic sense). now, not so much. ymmv
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: glitterbug on December 15, 2010, 05:27:44 pm
you old fogeys need to lrn2txt  ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: oscarvan on December 15, 2010, 07:24:37 pm
By the way oscarvan...what is "morsose."  ;D <couldn't resist!>

DOH! I hate when I do that.  ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 07:51:59 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 15, 2010, 07:59:18 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
And you're just going to keep that to yourself, eh?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 08:04:29 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
And you're just going to keep that to yourself, eh?

Yep.  As the saying goes, "You learn more and remember better if you look it up for yourself."

(I have an 11-year-old son)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 15, 2010, 08:05:53 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
And you're just going to keep that to yourself, eh?

Yep.  As the saying goes, "You learn more and remember better if you look it up for yourself."

(I have an 11-year-old son)
That's fine, I don't care enough to look it up ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 08:12:11 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
And you're just going to keep that to yourself, eh?

Yep.  As the saying goes, "You learn more and remember better if you look it up for yourself."

(I have an 11-year-old son)
That's fine, I don't care enough to look it up ;D

Whom would you have look it up for you?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 15, 2010, 08:24:33 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
And you're just going to keep that to yourself, eh?

Yep.  As the saying goes, "You learn more and remember better if you look it up for yourself."

(I have an 11-year-old son)
That's fine, I don't care enough to look it up ;D

Whom would you have look it up for you?
Who do you think?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 08:32:45 pm
You also have to keep in mind that message boards, like this one, are more akin to casual conversation rather than formal writing.

Kai

Oh dang, and here I thunk we were righten the modern Federalist Papers...

I was always perplexed by the who/whom differentiation.  So I did some research and found a test for the proper usage of the two.
And you're just going to keep that to yourself, eh?

Yep.  As the saying goes, "You learn more and remember better if you look it up for yourself."

(I have an 11-year-old son)
That's fine, I don't care enough to look it up ;D

Whom would you have look it up for you?
Who do you think?

That should be WHOM do you think...
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tumarkin on December 15, 2010, 08:40:04 pm
"Whom the f**k do you think you are?" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: oscarvan on December 15, 2010, 08:40:52 pm
OK, the quotes are getting too large...... ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 15, 2010, 08:44:55 pm
Whom would you have look it up for you?
Who do you think?
That should be WHOM do you think...
So you say, but without any evidence it is just a baseless assertion. ;)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 15, 2010, 08:46:51 pm
OK - OK a hint...
Subject vs object.

And, I was hoping to get a quote big enough to fill an entire page.  (is there a horizontal quote limit?  If so, what happens at excedence?)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 15, 2010, 09:15:13 pm
And, I was hoping to get a quote big enough to fill an entire page.  (is there a horizontal quote limit?  If so, what happens at excedence?)

It seems like it's 15 posts per page, regardless of length.

OK - OK a hint...
Subject vs object.
That would require you to be able to correctly identify the subject of the sentence, which you seem to have failed to do.  So the answer to "Who do you think (should look it up for me)" is you, because you need more practice ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 15, 2010, 09:18:41 pm
"Whom the f**k do you think you are?" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Plus it's wrong. :)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: jeffy on December 15, 2010, 10:37:07 pm
"Whom the f**k do you think you are?" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Plus it's wrong. :)
I think not.  Something about a rule with the verb "to be" the subject and object are the same tense or something.  Who can remember grade school?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: narvin on December 15, 2010, 11:27:25 pm
"Whom the f**k do you think you are?" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Plus it's wrong. :)
I think not.  Something about a rule with the verb "to be" the subject and object are the same tense or something.  Who can remember grade school?


Whom do you love?  <----- CORRECT.  I love him.  Him is the object, so it is whom.

Whom do you think you are?  <------ INCORRECT.  This one is tricky.  The verb "to be" (are) is a linking verb, and it links a subject and its compliment noun.  It cannot have an object.  The answer would be "I think I am he", hence you would use who here.  This is the same reason that you should say "This is he" when someone asks for you on the phone.

Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: weazletoe on December 15, 2010, 11:50:05 pm
Oh, go intercourse thyself.  ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: capozzoli on December 16, 2010, 12:16:26 am


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDupoFh5Op0
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: bluesman on December 16, 2010, 01:31:23 am
What's going on around here?   ::)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqF3J8DpEb4
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: MrNate on December 16, 2010, 01:33:51 am
I don't know about you guys, but I like to work "cellular telephone" into everyday communication.

As in, "I'm headed to the store. Give me a call on my cellular telephone if you need anything."
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 16, 2010, 05:10:46 am
http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar_quiz/who_1.asp
Final Score: 10/10

First try :)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: euge on December 16, 2010, 06:08:09 am
Here's a nice sign at work that's been up for months:

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_BGa2L64KQdY/TQln7_2c0FI/AAAAAAAAAXc/UkU-izbddrA/s640/2010-12-15%2015.25.39.jpg)

This is from the "facebook generation".
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 16, 2010, 11:42:20 am
http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar_quiz/who_1.asp
Final Score: 10/10

First try :)

Yeah, me too.  The him/he test works well.   ;)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: alikocho on December 16, 2010, 11:53:19 am
I am with you on this. As a university professor, I have become sickened by the lack of functional literacy of modern society.

I only wish that more people understood how to use the Oxford Comma,
.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 16, 2010, 12:03:16 pm
I have a bowl-full of serial commas, Oxford Commas, and Harvard Commas for breakfast every day!
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: alikocho on December 16, 2010, 12:13:11 pm
I have a bowl-full of serial commas, Oxford Commas, and Harvard Commas for breakfast every day!

As we seem to be moving in a certain direction, which style guide are we going to adhere to? Chicago 13th Edition, MLA, or Harvard?

My vote is for Chicago.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 16, 2010, 12:21:03 pm
I was leaning towards Hawaiian pidgin, but I'm with you on Chicago kine talk story.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 16, 2010, 05:06:44 pm
Speaking of Oxford Commas . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_i1xk07o4g
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 16, 2010, 05:12:39 pm
OK - OK a hint...
Subject vs object.
That would require you to be able to correctly identify the subject of the sentence, which you seem to have failed to do.  So the answer to "Who do you think (should look it up for me)" is you, because you need more practice ;) ;D ;D ;D
Ok, it occurred to me that I was wrong here.  I mis-remembered the sentence.  It's true that "Who do you think (should look it up for me)" is correct, but since I didn't specify it's fair to assume that the sentence actually was "Who do you think (I would have look it up for me)" and that should be whom.  My bad.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: Mikey on December 17, 2010, 12:25:19 am
Prepare for lockdown!!!
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: capozzoli on December 17, 2010, 01:36:12 am
(http://chzsomuchpun.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/097fb1bc-bfcf-4636-859c-f1d3b6cbf6dc.jpg)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 17, 2010, 01:51:29 am
Speaking of Oxford Commas . . .


Man, that was worse than being Rick Roll'd.

Coal... nothing but coal for you!
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: weazletoe on December 17, 2010, 05:08:20 am
(http://chzsomuchpun.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/097fb1bc-bfcf-4636-859c-f1d3b6cbf6dc.jpg)


Ok, now that's funny!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 17, 2010, 07:14:43 am
Speaking of Oxford Commas . . .


Man, that was worse than being Rick Roll'd.

Coal... nothing but coal for you!
Perfect!  You know I'll just make diamonds out of it, right?

Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 17, 2010, 09:13:10 am
What, no coal porter?  I figured that one would have a permanent tap on your kegerator.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: MrNate on December 17, 2010, 02:13:19 pm
That reminds me of a completely unrelated story... My FIL said something about listening to Cole Portser, and Sarah, my 6-year old, turned with a look of absolute shock and said, "Did you say, 'cold water?'"

The look and tone reminded me of Sammy Davis Jr. in Cannonball Run - it was priceless!

You may now continue with your regularly scheduled thread.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 17, 2010, 06:01:40 pm
What, no coal porter?  I figured that one would have a permanent tap on your kegerator.
Tasty :)  But I have no permanent taps, do you?
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 18, 2010, 02:03:39 am
What, no coal porter?  I figured that one would have a permanent tap on your kegerator.
Tasty :)  But I have no permanent taps, do you?

Yes, a quasi-permanent tap for sparkling mead.  Being on tap it is force-carbonated.  Currently serving a kiawe honey - lychee melomel.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tschmidlin on December 18, 2010, 06:02:57 am
If you feel like having still mead on tap you can push it with argon or nitrogen.  It's how wine on tap is served.    At the very least you could push it with beer gas and have only a little bit of carbonation.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 18, 2010, 06:24:25 am
I serve my still mead from the bottle.  I like the presentation, and portability.

And as twisted as it may seem, I enjoy bottling.  It's like the exclamation point on a great idea. 

When the bottle is sealed, all that remains to be done is the enjoyment.  A case of full, sealed bottles gives me a great deal of satisfaction.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: gordonstrong on December 18, 2010, 04:07:56 pm
If you feel like having still mead on tap you can push it with argon or nitrogen.  It's how wine on tap is served.    At the very least you could push it with beer gas and have only a little bit of carbonation.

I like to push German lagers with argon.  It enhances the noble hops.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: Mikey on December 18, 2010, 04:25:33 pm
If you feel like having still mead on tap you can push it with argon or nitrogen.  It's how wine on tap is served.    At the very least you could push it with beer gas and have only a little bit of carbonation.

I like to push German lagers with argon.  It enhances the noble hops.

Why would that do anything to the taste? Argon is an inert gas and CO2 would still be released. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it makes no sense to me,
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: oldtree on December 18, 2010, 05:38:17 pm
Back to grade school chemistry class with you!

Fairly certain Gordon was making a Noble gas "joke" ;)
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: kerneldustjacket on December 18, 2010, 09:56:44 pm
Back to grade school chemistry class with you!

Fairly certain Gordon was making a Noble gas "joke" ;)

And a very good one at that!
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: denny on December 18, 2010, 10:27:42 pm
If you feel like having still mead on tap you can push it with argon or nitrogen.  It's how wine on tap is served.    At the very least you could push it with beer gas and have only a little bit of carbonation.

I like to push German lagers with argon.  It enhances the noble hops.

OUCH!!
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: punatic on December 19, 2010, 01:04:06 am
I like to push German lagers with argon.  It enhances the noble hops.

I thought he was talking about Strider...  :-[

(http://www.fantasyplanet.cz/gfx/pictures_clanky/lotr_gal_velky_2001_11_28_10_7_24.jpg)

You know, noble hops... Return of the King... and all like that.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tygo on December 19, 2010, 03:03:31 am
And that's how you know you're on the AHA forum.  You make a joke playing noble hops against noble gases and people laugh.
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: capozzoli on December 19, 2010, 03:44:14 am
If you really want to go nuts. Try going back to the Old English. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wl-OZ3breE

Or maybe Middle English. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE0MtENfOMU

How the heck did modern English come from that???
Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: nicneufeld on December 19, 2010, 02:34:32 pm
I've read snippets from the Wycliffe Bible, and when I say read, I mean, parsed only slightly.  The German influence helps me read it a bit better but still its almost unreadable.  Folk who have complained about the archaic language of the King James translation have scant cause for complaint compared to this old translation!

Title: Re: Language Revived
Post by: tubercle on December 19, 2010, 02:36:35 pm
One of the great writers is Sir William Blackstone. To bring this style back would be an advancement, not a regression, of the English language.

 An example from Sir BIlly:

"Law, in its most general and comprehensive sense, signifies a rule of action; and is applied indiscriminately to all kinds of action, whether animate, or inanimate, rational or irrational. Thus we say, the laws of motion, of gravitation, of optics, or mechanics, as well as the laws of nature and of nations. And it is that rule of action, which is prescribed by some superior, and which the inferior is bound to obey."