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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: tubercle on December 23, 2010, 11:44:25 pm

Title: The more things change...
Post by: tubercle on December 23, 2010, 11:44:25 pm
....the more they remain the same.

 This post is not about politics but about how the world we live in is no different than it has always been.

 Quote from James Madison in Federalist Papers #64:

 "The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous - It poisons the blessings of liberty itself - It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is today, can guess what it will be tomorrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?

Another effect of public instability is the unreasonable advantage it gives to the sagacious, the enterprising, and the moneyed few over the industrious and uninformed mass of the people. Every new regulation concerning commerce or revenue, or in any manner affecting the value of the different species of property, presents a new harvest to those who watch the change, and can trace its consequences; a harvest, reared not by themselves, but by the toils and cares of the great body of their fellow-citizens. This is a state of things in which it may be said with some truth that laws are made for the few, not for the many."


 I suppose human nature is now as it has always been and will always be.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: MrNate on December 24, 2010, 12:09:51 am
I've always admired Hammurabi for that reason. The law is right there, Buddy. Carved in frigging stone.

Some really interesting laws in there, too. Some oddly specific.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: weazletoe on December 24, 2010, 12:27:56 am
History repeats itself. sure, man has come a LONG way in technology, but when you get down to bare bones, it's all the same crap'ola. We have the instinct to reproduce, hunt and gather, have some form of worship, be it a religion, money, etc.. IT's the same thingthat has been going on for thousands of years. Only difference is, now we have cell phones, high def tv's, and Facebook. As long as this old world is here, it will always be the same. Just new technology to meet our basic needs and instincts.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: tygo on December 24, 2010, 01:01:23 am
I believe that was The Federalist #62.  That article was published 190 years to the day before I was born and is still relevant to this day.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: myh3adhur7s on December 24, 2010, 01:14:40 am
As weazletoe said history repeats itself, which i do believe is entirely true. but what I find disturbing is that we still kill each other and wage war. We have not really learned from our past mistakes.

"War. War never changes. Since the dawn of human kind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything, from God to justice to simple, psychotic rage"

This quote from the opening of Fallout 3 is in many ways a very true statement of human nature to fight.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: capozzoli on December 24, 2010, 01:44:00 am


http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20101223/US.Robertson.Marijuana/
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: MrNate on December 24, 2010, 02:32:06 am


http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20101223/US.Robertson.Marijuana/

Dude...Wait, what?
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: boulderbrewer on December 24, 2010, 03:49:04 am
I'm finding more people raising their own food and bartering for services.

Seems to me some of us are de-evolving into helping groups of people.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: punatic on December 24, 2010, 08:01:49 am
Quote from James Madison in Federalist Papers #64:

 

Unhappy with the direction the Language Revived thread went are ya Tuber?
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: euge on December 24, 2010, 08:11:03 am
Quote from James Madison in Federalist Papers #64:

 

Unhappy with the direction the Language Revived thread went are ya Tuber?

Ahhh... I just really laughed for the first time today. Ahh that was good.

Well I'd say it has all come to pass Tubercle. As it ever was it is now. Just all gussied up. We could commiserate with the Babylonians about the price of beer and current affairs. Except the penalties were a bit more draconian.  :o
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: punatic on December 24, 2010, 09:08:27 am
I'm more like I am now than I was before...
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: 1vertical on December 25, 2010, 05:01:57 pm
From Google News...how is this for "Guilty until proven innocent"  or Trial by Breathalyzer...not your Peers...

Quote
The Laramie City Council approved the change to the city’s municipal code on final reading in an eight-to-one vote Tuesday night.

The ordinance also  creates a new offense of the refusal of a chemical test to determine BAC when a police officer deems there is probable cause to assume a driver is drunk. The penalty for refusal of a chemical test to determine BAC is the same as if the suspect blew a 0.15 BAC.
 

I believe this poorly worded dribble says that you will loose your Drivers license just for refusing a Breathalyzer.....
even if you have NOT touched a drop.....the offense has become the act of "refusal".

I have trouble discerning where the law ends and politics begins, so if this post is over the edge, I will gladly delete it.

Seems on topic because of the mention of laws in the opening paragraph of your post re:federalist papers
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: tubercle on December 25, 2010, 06:21:05 pm
From Google News...how is this for "Guilty until proven innocent"  or Trial by Breathalyzer...not your Peers...

Quote
The Laramie City Council approved the change to the city’s municipal code on final reading in an eight-to-one vote Tuesday night.

The ordinance also  creates a new offense of the refusal of a chemical test to determine BAC when a police officer deems there is probable cause to assume a driver is drunk. The penalty for refusal of a chemical test to determine BAC is the same as if the suspect blew a 0.15 BAC.
 

I believe this poorly worded dribble says that you will loose your Drivers license just for refusing a Breathalyzer.....
even if you have NOT touched a drop.....the offense has become the act of "refusal".

I have trouble discerning where the law ends and politics begins, so if this post is over the edge, I will gladly delete it.

Seems on topic because of the mention of laws in the opening paragraph of your post re:federalist papers


  This has been the law in S.C. for years...

  This was posted to point out how Madison wrote that over 200 years ago but the topics are the exact same as if this could be written today.

 Hammurabi, the Greeks, Romans, Sumerians, Eastern Europeans and all other civilizations have went through the same things over and over. The more man tries to advance and grow, nature just keeps us in place. Weazletoe said it :"As long as this old world is here, it will always be the same. Just new technology to meet our basic needs and instincts. "

 Weird we can't make any progress.
Title: Re: The more things change...
Post by: euge on December 25, 2010, 06:31:38 pm
We've made some. But I believe we are hardwired to behave this way, and knowledge of it doesn't help much.