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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: bonjour on December 02, 2009, 02:35:26 AM

Title: Lambics
Post by: bonjour on December 02, 2009, 02:35:26 AM
Under process this page states
brewing (from 45°c up to 72°c)

from 113F (45C) to 163F (63c)

Is that correct?



from http://www.cantillon.be/br/3_11 (http://www.cantillon.be/br/3_11)
Quote
Lambic and the spontaneous fermentation
Cantillon Brewery

I am Mimi, the little mouse.
The brewery doesn't have any secrets for me, so follow me and I'll tell you about the beers which are made here.

I am fond of wheat and barley grains, so I am probably the best guide to introduce you to these great beers : Gueuze, Kriek, Faro, etc.

Traditional Lambic is made according to the following rules:

   1. Ingredients:
          * raw wheat 35%
          * malted barley 65%
          * dried hops (three years old) : 5 g per liter of beer
   2. Process:
          * brewing (from 45°c up to 72°c)
          * collecting the wort by filtering
          * boiling and hopping in the boilers
          * cooling down in the cooling tun, in contact with the open air
          * natural infection of the wort by wild ferments (bacteria and yeasts)
          * pumping the wort at a temperature of 18°c into oakwood or chestnutwood barrels
          * spontaneous fermentation, visible in the beginning, slow afterwards
          * transformation of all the sugars within three years
   3. Looks of Lambic:
          * Still beer, cereals wine. During the fermentation, the carbon dioxide escapes through the wood and as a result does not saturate the beer.
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 02, 2009, 03:42:54 AM
The lambic producers do a turbid mash, to make a wort that is high in starches.  That is so the bugs and critters have things they can consume after the yeast is done.  They actually pull the thin part, boil, and return.  This denatures the enzymes to ensure low conversion.  I would have to pull some books out to check the temps, but it doesn't seem far off.

Forget most of what you know about brewing when you delve into lambics.  I mean this in the most possible good way.  ;D

If you ever get a chance, tour the Cantillon brewery.
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: deepsouth on December 02, 2009, 03:46:44 AM
i so want to start brewing lambics, but i'm afraid i'm years away from having enough knowledge to pull of one that is truly divine.
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: jackfromjax on December 03, 2009, 08:27:09 PM
Here's a great pLambic link:
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/LmbicJL0696.html (http://hbd.org/brewery/library/LmbicJL0696.html)

Covers traditional and non-traditional methods.  A very interesting read.
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: bo_gator on December 04, 2009, 01:05:26 AM
i so want to start brewing lambics, but i'm afraid i'm years away from having enough knowledge to pull of one that is truly divine.

All you need is love and time...the bugs and yeasts do the rest. I have ~ 15 gallons of Lambic sitting in my brewery. A 5 allon batch of extract following the recipe from BCS that is 9 months old or so (still has the pellicle) and two fermenters with a split 12 gallon all-grain brew. All three were pitched with one smack pack of Lambic Blend from Wyeast, and one of the all grain carboys also got a smack pack of Roselare Blend tossed in for s***s and giggles. ;D

The first batch smells so awesome when the fridge is opened up it will almost drive you mad.  :'(
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: babalu87 on December 05, 2009, 02:03:47 AM
THANKS for the link Fred

This ticked me off a bit though:

Quote
First off, I will do my best to refrain from using the word lambic to describe any beer made outside Belgium. Lambic is only made in a small area outside Brussels, even though one American craft brewer might have you thinking otherwise. In my discussion of making similar beer by the homebrewer I prefer to use the term lambic-style. On the internet lambic Digest one sees the term plambic being used, which is short for pseudo-lambic. Again with the point being that real, true lambic is only made in Belgium and nowhere else. If you find this view extreme I hope that reading this article and some of the other writings cited here will help change your mind.

Didnt all brewers make Lambic ages ago?

Seems a bit short-sighted , a little like Champagne "geeks"
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: tygo on December 05, 2009, 03:09:43 AM
I'm no expert on either Champagne or Lambic but I think it's just a matter of semantics.  Authentic champagne is only produced in the Champagne region of France, hence the name.  The term has become somewhat synonymous with sparkling white wine however sparkling white wine is not Champagne.  That doesn't mean there aren't as good or better sparkling white wines out there produced using the champagne process from a wide range of geographic locations.  I personally haven't had true champagne at any new years eve party I've ever held, for example.

I would think the same logic would apply to Lambics.  A "true" lambic is produced only in the Pajottenland region of Belgium.  That doesn't mean that good or better lambic-style beers aren't produced elsewhere, like your kitchen.
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: babalu87 on December 05, 2009, 03:26:31 AM
I'm no expert on either Champagne or Lambic but I think it's just a matter of semantics.  Authentic champagne is only produced in the Champagne region of France, hence the name.  The term has become somewhat synonymous with sparkling white wine however sparkling white wine is not Champagne.  That doesn't mean there aren't as good or better sparkling white wines out there produced using the champagne process from a wide range of geographic locations.  I personally haven't had true champagne at any new years eve party I've ever held, for example.

I would think the same logic would apply to Lambics.  A "true" lambic is produced only in the Pajottenland region of Belgium.  That doesn't mean that good or better lambic-style beers aren't produced elsewhere, like your kitchen.

+1

Those are my thoughts

Also have to wonder, was the first Lambic brewed in the Pajottenland region or were they just first to name it  ;D
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: bo_gator on December 08, 2009, 11:15:57 PM
If we are going to get specific about it, can you really brew a California Common in NC?
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: karlh on December 09, 2009, 03:53:10 PM
I have a question about lambic fermentation for those who have experience.

I have a batch of lambic that has been fermenting since June 2008 in a 10 gallon oak barrel.  I was initially fermented about 80% in my regular fermenter with wyeast belgian wheat and then transferred at around 1.025 to the barrel.  I kept a couple gallons of the batch on hand in a corny and have used to refill as headspace formed in the barrel.  It was pitched in the barrel with wyeast lambic blend, and has developed a nice sourness, clearly going through the pedio stage of fermentation, and developed into a clear, sour, complex beer.  It has a definite oak character and an almost citrusy fruity complexity.  Overall I am not unhappy with how its developing in the barrel, but it does not have any of the horsey/brett character I was expecting.  In the last month or two I have picked up a B. Lambicus pack and added it to see if that will get a brett fermentation going, along with a gallon or so of fresh, partially fermented lambic wort. 

Has anyone out there experienced a lambic fermentation that went through a clear pedio phase without a brett fermenation following?  Like I said the beer is nice, but not quite what I expected, and I am hoping to see some brett character before its 2 or 3 years old. 
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 09, 2009, 04:44:32 PM
Brett lambicus will give you some Brett character and the sour cherry flavor.

If you want horsey notes, then you want Brett Bruxellensis.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=146
Title: Re: Lambics
Post by: bluesman on December 09, 2009, 05:48:20 PM
If we are going to get specific about it, can you really brew a California Common in NC?

Plus it goes against the premise of inovation. Should we always brew inside the box? I don't think so. Unless one is competing.