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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: andyi on January 07, 2011, 05:59:47 PM

Title: Grape juice for priming
Post by: andyi on January 07, 2011, 05:59:47 PM
Happy New Year,

 I read where someone had used grape juice at/for priming and it added a slight vinous dimension.

I have a session (1.040) belgian blonde in primary.  The yeast (WY3522) lends fruits and "tartness" and a small addition of Am/Fr oak cubes  will add structure/mouthfeel.   The grape juice might add and additional layer of complexity and be complemented by the oak. If I would attempt this I would use white wine juice- reisling or gurzenwhatever.

My questions:
- Has anyone done this and/or what are your thoughts
- How much for 5gal 2.5 vols for this low gavity beer
- How to sanitize the juice.
- Would you need an additional priming agent.

-Cheers
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: onthekeg on January 08, 2011, 05:14:10 PM
I guess you could try it and see how it goes.  I'm not a fan of fruit in beer, so I don't do anything like that.  I would be worried about the color when done.  It may look like dishwater.. ???
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: corkybstewart on January 08, 2011, 08:32:48 PM
The biggest problem is not knowing how much sugar you'll be adding with the grape juice.  Too much and bottles go boom, too little and you have flat beer.  There  may be some info somewhere on sugar content of fruit juices but those numbers may not be applicable to the juice you're using.
Use the juice in the beer, once it's all fermented then you can prime as usual.
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: tschmidlin on January 09, 2011, 05:19:11 AM
Just take a gravity reading of the juice, you';; know how much sugar is in it.  Assume it will be 100% fermentable.

To figure out how much, use a priming calculator once you know how much sugar is in it.

You could pasteurize the juice to sanitize it, 30 minutes at 180 should do it, maybe cooler.  Add some pectic enzyme in case it gets hot enough to set the pectin.
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: gisbrewmaster on January 09, 2011, 05:55:59 PM
There was a basic brewing radio podcast on priming with non normal ingredients.  In short all the guy did was look on bottle and it tells you the amount of sugar per serving. Then you can calculate the the amount needed based on that.  If you are using fresh grapes then you would probably have to do a gravity reading like others have said and calculate from there.

Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: corkybstewart on January 09, 2011, 07:38:07 PM
Just take a gravity reading of the juice, you';; know how much sugar is in it.  Assume it will be 100% fermentable.

To figure out how much, use a priming calculator once you know how much sugar is in it.

You could pasteurize the juice to sanitize it, 30 minutes at 180 should do it, maybe cooler.  Add some pectic enzyme in case it gets hot enough to set the pectin.
I'm not arguing but is sugar the only thing that can affect gravity?
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: abraxas on January 09, 2011, 07:42:16 PM
You could pasteurize the juice to sanitize it, 30 minutes at 180 should do it, maybe cooler.  Add some pectic enzyme in case it gets hot enough to set the pectin.

It should already be pasteurized, I'd just add it to the bottling bucket.
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: tschmidlin on January 09, 2011, 09:44:05 PM
I'm not arguing but is sugar the only thing that can affect gravity?
No, but most wine grape juice will ferment to below 1.000 so it will be good enough I think.

You could pasteurize the juice to sanitize it, 30 minutes at 180 should do it, maybe cooler.  Add some pectic enzyme in case it gets hot enough to set the pectin.
It should already be pasteurized, I'd just add it to the bottling bucket.
It might be, might not.  I don't know where you would find pasteurized "white wine juice- reisling or gurzenwhatever" beyond a wine making kit, but maybe someone else does. :)
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: jaybeerman on January 09, 2011, 10:20:19 PM
Most importantly - note your methods and let us know your results.  I also hate being the one to conduct an experiment knowing that it might not work out and it may end with a crappy beer but it sure is cool when it does work out.  cheers, j

(follow toms advice)
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: andyi on January 10, 2011, 02:52:01 PM

Thanks for  all the info.

Now I remember where I read about priming with grape juice:
Steve Pauwels Wheat Wine Recipe p.144 - "Brewing with Wheat" by Stan Hieronymus.

"Bottle with grape juice to increase complexity...consentrated grape juice has 68 degrees Brix or 68 grams sugar per 100 grams solution."

The degees Brix lines up with Williams Brewing Muscat Concentrate ".. with minimum heat under vacuum to 68 Brix."

So I will start here with a Brix conversion to figure out sugars to  volume but will need more coffee to figure out "68 grams sugar per 100 grams solution". :)

If I do this I will split my 5gal batch - half sugar, half grape consentrate

-Cheers
Title: Re: Grape juice for priming
Post by: andyi on January 15, 2011, 04:17:24 PM


 I sent an email to Steve Pauwels at Boulevard Brewing to and asked about the priming formulas for the Wheat Wine.  He sent back a very detailed reply.  In sumary, for 3 vols CO2 - 1.67.5 ml (5.66 oz) of Muscat concentrate (68 brix) for a 5 gal batch. 

"Hi Andy,
 
Thanks for your question about priming with Muscat concentrate.

We also use Muscat concentrate to bottle condition our wheat wine and find that the Muscat juice adds some flavor to the beer. It is only dosed in small amounts so you can’t expect a lot from it.

As for calculation:

68 Brix = 68 grams sucrose per 100 gram

Flat beer has about 1 volume CO2 – addition of 2 volume to get to 3 volumes

In metric: 10 g/l sucrose -> 5 g/l CO2

Increase 2 volumes = increase ca. 4 g/l = addition of 8 g/l sucrose.

Density of concentrate is 11.13 lbs/gall or 1.33 kg/l

To add 8 grams/l you need to add 1,000 ml x 8 grams/1,330 grams = 6 ml

6 ml (100% sucrose) = 8.85 ml (68 Brix) per liter

For 5 gall -> 8.85 ml x 3.785 l/gall x 5 = 167.5 ml of Muscat juice
 

I hope this helps. Good luck.
 

Steven"