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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: Kirk on January 10, 2011, 09:38:54 am

Title: Digestibility
Post by: Kirk on January 10, 2011, 09:38:54 am
I'm one that has a sensitivity to gluten, especially wheat glutens.  Barley doesn't bother me nearly as much, but I'm wondering if I'm experiencing some symptoms in the form of constipation and flatuation (good old beer farts) which get embarassing and annoying.  I do know that glutens are proteins.  I'm trying decoction mashes as an experimental cure, with the hunch that the protein rest is key to the process.  Hearing that protein rests are bad for head retention doesn't worry me.  I'll  trade head retention for better digestion.  Kai, I've read some of your articles, but I haven't yet found anything on digestion.  I was going to write you privately, because I didn't want to rekindle another debate on decoction vs. infusion.  But this is not about flavor, and so here's hoping that I'm not alone on this, and others may be helped too.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: dak0415 on January 10, 2011, 10:15:53 am
Kirk,
Although designed to reduce chill haze, White Labs Clarity Ferm (WLN4000) apparently has the additional properties of reducing glutens.  I am somewhat lactose intolerant and have found that beers with a high % of unfermentable dextrins have the same effects as you are describing.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: tomsawyer on January 10, 2011, 10:20:10 am
I wouldn't discount the cause being maltodextrins, those carbs that aren't fermented by yeast.  In the large intestine bacteria can metabolize those sugars and produce gas.  Try a low mash temp and no mashout.  Since the beta-amylase only chews from the end of a starch polymer, you'll get a lot fewer of the trisacharides and limit dextrins.  When you favor alpha-amylase you get things being cut into lots of larger pieces that don't all get broken down into monosacharides.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Hokerer on January 10, 2011, 11:08:05 am
On the flip side, you could just not let them "annoy and embarrass" you.  Be proud  ;D
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: euge on January 10, 2011, 11:43:57 am
Try taking "Beano" before drinking?
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: tomsawyer on January 10, 2011, 01:14:02 pm
Beano would help if its the undigested carbs, not the gluten.  Might be worth a test.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kit B on January 10, 2011, 03:17:55 pm
To address the gas, specifically:
By any chance are you making sure to age your beers, before drinking?
If not, have you tried that?
Or...Have you tried cold crashing?

I often find that if I drink my beers young & get a slug of yeast, it gives me terrible gas.
But, I can bypass this by cold crashing the yeast & eliminating the first couple pints.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kirk on January 11, 2011, 09:08:51 am
You might have hit the nail on the head with the yeast angle.  Oddly though--which for me with my approach, odd is fairly common---he culprit was probably my root beer instead of the regular brews.  I brewed a root beer a few months ago, from the real roots and all that jazz, and I wanted to ensure ample carbonation--because my previous one carbonated with CO2 didn't have much of a head on it--so I made a big yeast starter, allowed the fermentation to get going big time in the keg, then cold crashed it.  Well, it was carbonated alright, and it never cleared up like I hoped it would.  But I drank it anyway--it was mine after all--and the taste was passable, so I wasn't about to throw it away.  Yeah I was probably ingesting a lot of yeast, and blaming the regular beer.  So this morning, since it was getting near empty, I opened it up and poured out quite a sloppy mess--ummm good.  So, thanks for the posts everyone.  As is quite obvious now, you helped a lot.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: morticaixavier on January 11, 2011, 09:19:49 am
the yeast may make yo ufart but it also helps prevent hangovers. All the good b vitamins and protein you pee out when drinking beer are replaced by the yeast. course I'm a vegetarian so I am used to farting alot. twice an many farts but they smell half as bad so it all works out in the end.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Hokerer on January 11, 2011, 09:35:46 am
so it all works out in the end.

ba da bump   ;D
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kit B on January 12, 2011, 01:55:34 pm
twice an many farts but they smell half as bad

Sorry, but I doubt the last half of that statement.
I've been around a LOT of vegetarian farters.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: EHall on January 12, 2011, 02:38:56 pm
Yea, I definately prefer beef farts...
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kaiser on January 12, 2011, 10:18:33 pm
This is an interesting topic since I too noticed increased gas production ever since I started home brewing. I wonder if this is simply a result of more dextrins in the beers we brew. Interesting experiment would be to brew a high and a low dextrin beer and limit yourself to one and then the other for a week. Take note on the amount of farting and compare :)

When it comes to gluten and protein content I don't think that there would be much difference to commercial beer.

To digest a significant amount of the protein you would have to hold the protein rest for a long time. This is partly because reactions are slower at lower temps and the protein rest is about 15 C lower than a sacc rest. Maybe you'll have to go to the extreme. Brew a beer with a 60 min rest at 45 C and then a 60 min rest at 65 C. I'd expect the attenuation to be fairly high and it might not hold a head at all, but if this does cure your digestive problems you are onto something.

Beano seems to be a good option as well. But I'm not sure if this contains any protoelytic (protein degrading) enzymes.

But none of the farts that we produce compare to dog farts. They are almost always silent and always very potent.

Kai
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: euge on January 12, 2011, 11:38:19 pm

But none of the farts that we produce compare to dog farts. They are almost always silent and always very potent.

Kai

Maybe because lots of dogs are vegetarians... ;)
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: tomsawyer on January 13, 2011, 06:25:32 am
As an occasional consumer of low carb candy and Splenda, I can tell you that dextrins are a MAJOR substrate for methane-producing bacteria in the large intestine.
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kaiser on January 13, 2011, 07:13:02 am

But none of the farts that we produce compare to dog farts. They are almost always silent and always very potent.

Kai

Maybe because lots of dogs are vegetarians... ;)

I think meat makes you fart more. I notice that after a night of overeating buffalo wings, for example.

Kai
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kit B on January 13, 2011, 10:29:41 am
Kai,
I would think you could blame that on the chicken.
Beef doesn't seem to do that to me...Chicken does.

Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kirk on January 13, 2011, 02:23:44 pm
I wonder if this is simply a result of more dextrins in the beers we brew. Interesting experiment would be to brew a high and a low dextrin beer and limit yourself to one and then the other for a week.

To do that, you avoid the higher temperatures in the sacc rest?
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: euge on January 14, 2011, 12:32:31 am
Kai,
I would think you could blame that on the chicken.
Beef doesn't seem to do that to me...Chicken does.



Is that BBQ chicken or fried?
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: oscarvan on January 14, 2011, 07:30:50 am
I blame the yeast. Suggest getting one of these:
(http://www.cardsandstuff.co.uk/ekmps/shops/cards/images/gas-pass-farting-permit-plastic-card-467-p.jpg)
Title: Re: Digestibility
Post by: Kaiser on January 14, 2011, 11:35:15 am
Kai,
I would think you could blame that on the chicken.
Beef doesn't seem to do that to me...Chicken does.



Is that BBQ chicken or fried?

Fried. In general fried foods seem to lead to a lot of gas.

Kai