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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: morticaixavier on January 20, 2011, 12:17:28 AM

Title: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on January 20, 2011, 12:17:28 AM
I am thinking about a barley wine recipe that I will be able to age for more than a decade so I can share it with my son who was just born. Right now this is where I am starting for a 5 gallon batch

25lb 2 row (maybe Marris otter, or maybe even munich)
3lb maple syrup added near the end of the boil and a little more used for bottle priming.(This because I am a vermonter displaced from my home state right now and want to include a note of home)

California Ivanhoe hops spread evenly through out a 90 minute boil (This hop because it sounds interesting and is available in organic form from Seven Bridges. It is a Cluster hop with citrusy notes according to the description)

1 oz at 90
1 oz at 60
1 oz at 30
1 oz at 15
1 oz at 10
1 oz at 5
1 oz at flameout
1 oz dry hopped.

I will mash low and long to get maximum fermentability, aiming for around 12%

I Have no idea what yeast to use for this, was thinking of maybe using Denny's favorite or the old ale blend. Even considered the Ballantine yeast from east coast yeast that I have heard so much about.

So does any of this seem ridiculously nasty? am I wasting late addition hops in a beer that I hope to age for 20 years? any other comments? Would munich make for too much sweetness?
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: tumarkin on January 20, 2011, 12:32:42 AM
Sounds like you're aware that hops drop off significantly over time. That said, it's only a bit more money than going with a lesser hopped recipe. So I'd say go for it. Remember to let us know in 20 years how it's turned out.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on January 20, 2011, 12:40:00 AM
Well, I find it difficult to believe that i would let ALL of it age that long. just so I can have a bottle or 5 left then. Gotta keep an eye on it! wouldn't want it to get nasty and then try to share it with the kid.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on January 20, 2011, 12:48:56 AM
Additionaly, although this might belong in a different thread, Are there any hints to getting a big beer like this to a good FG? beyond a HUGE starter and time? I have read about doing staggered sugar additions and even yeast nutrients for the 'extreme' beers would a 1.115 require that kind of treatment? benefit from it?
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: pyrite on January 20, 2011, 06:27:31 AM
1. A good healthy yeast starter.
2. Add extra oxygen when pitching the yeast starter
3. 10 hrs after pitching the yeast add more oxygen.   Add oxygen with caution, sometimes the wort will gush out of the carboy.
4. You might want to keep a healthy yeast starter going and on hand, because when the alcohol reaches about 9-10% the yeast will sometimes want to poof out. 
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: euge on January 20, 2011, 06:37:40 AM
Hopefully it's not just over one decade! Here son...

Are you capping and waxing? Keep the beer cold and it'll probably last until he's a grandpa.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on January 20, 2011, 07:19:47 AM
Hopefully it's not just over one decade! Here son...

Are you capping and waxing? Keep the beer cold and it'll probably last until he's a grandpa.

What ten is a perfect age for the first beer!

Yeah I figured cap with oxygen absorbing caps and wax dip and store then somewhere cool.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on January 20, 2011, 11:53:59 PM
So one of my big questions on this brew is still unanswered. What yeast would work well here? I know the ballantine strain from east coast will work for a big ageworthy beer, or at least that is what I have gathered from that thread. The old ale blend is recomended by wyeast but I am not sure I want to start messing with other bugs with this brew. and of course Denny's favorite is recomended for lots of different brews.

Help!
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: pyrite on January 21, 2011, 12:44:28 AM
WLP001 California Ale Yeast http://whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp001.html
WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast http://whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp001.html

I personally like these two yeast strains for high gravity barley wines. 

Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: euge on January 21, 2011, 06:56:07 AM
How about a Burton ale? The one in the latest Gadgets issue of Zymurgy looked very interesting.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: bonjour on January 21, 2011, 01:21:32 PM
The hops will fade and the taste will shift to an English Barleywine.  If you are good with that, go for it.
At 1.115 most any yeast will work. 
Oxygenate really well, many times your normal effort.
Pitch a 5 gallon starter (rack onto a fresh yeast cake)
Ferment cool, wort temp in mid 60s, cooler is ok.
Consider force carbonation, then bottling, This isn't too big to bottle carbonate, bur force carbonation of big beers is more reliable.
The beer should be very good as soon as it is carbonated.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: liquidbrewing on January 21, 2011, 02:00:10 PM
My Barley wine I made in December I used one pack of Fermentis US-05 and a pack of 04, redydrated of course.  I swear it was done fermenting in four days, that US 04 ain't no joke!  Although I prefer US -05 for a lower FG, I decided to mix the two and see what happens.  I collected a crap load of wort and boiled for three and a half hours, with 2.5 oz warrior for two hours.  Tasted pretty good at bottling.   

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you might want to add yeast at bottling.  I just wanted to bottle condition mine, although such a high alcohol beer would be fine with force carbing, as was mentioned.  Mine was 12% as well, from what I understand the yeast are very stressed, so I added a US33 at bottling.  Also, barley wines, start big and finish big, on the gravity side.  Mine started at 1.121 and finished at 1.030.  
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on January 21, 2011, 08:06:31 PM
The hops will fade and the taste will shift to an English Barleywine.  If you are good with that, go for it.
At 1.115 most any yeast will work.  
Oxygenate really well, many times your normal effort.
Pitch a 5 gallon starter (rack onto a fresh yeast cake)
Ferment cool, wort temp in mid 60s, cooler is ok.
Consider force carbonation, then bottling, This isn't too big to bottle carbonate, bur force carbonation of big beers is more reliable.
The beer should be very good as soon as it is carbonated.

I am good with taste shift. Makes the whole process more interesting in my opinion. So I currently have a IPA (Sort of a lagunitas clone) that is on WYeast ESB. I would have to read up on yeast washing as there is a lot of trub and I was planning on dryhopping in primary on that one. I wouild consider forces carbing but I don't have the equipment nor the money to aquire at this time. In terms of oxygenating would a mix stir work? I can probably justify that expense but not the whole pure o2 setup.

My Barley wine I made in December I used one pack of Fermentis US-05 and a pack of 04, redydrated of course.  I swear it was done fermenting in four days, that US 04 ain't no joke!  Although I prefer US -05 for a lower FG, I decided to mix the two and see what happens.  I collected a crap load of wort and boiled for three and a half hours, with 2.5 oz warrior for two hours.  Tasted pretty good at bottling.  

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you might want to add yeast at bottling.  I just wanted to bottle condition mine, although such a high alcohol beer would be fine with force carbing, as was mentioned.  Mine was 12% as well, from what I understand the yeast are very stressed, so I added a US33 at bottling.  Also, barley wines, start big and finish big, on the gravity side.  Mine started at 1.121 and finished at 1.030.  

I have thought about usign US05 or similar but I was thinking that soemthing interesting might be more fun. Will indeed add yeast at bottling. perhaps US04 at that time.

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I probably won't get around to brewing this for at least a week so keep the suggestions coming if you feel so inclined!

**EDIT** just noticed this is another post http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5582.0

it is mentioned that the Fullers yeast can give some maple esters. I just had a 2008 vintage ale from them and LOVED it. perhaps that yeast might play well with the maple? too much? looks like it's WLP002/Wyeast 1968?
 which I now realize is what my IPA is currently sitting on! hurray! now to read up on yeast washing/rinsing! **END EDIT**
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: Jared on March 23, 2014, 06:30:49 PM
Any update on how these beers are doing? I just had my first born daughter and was hoping to do the same thing – let a big barleywine sit for 18 years to drink with her.

Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: euge on March 24, 2014, 04:56:58 AM
Yeah!  Any updates?

I just stuck my very last bottle of BW (interestingly enough it's from my first batch) in the fridge. There's freakin dust like a mofo on it.

Maybe this weekend it'll get tasted. Brewed 03/2008 I sure hope it doesn't taste like soy-sauce.
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: klickitat jim on March 24, 2014, 05:45:13 AM
Make up some California rolls just in case. Hmmm, new idea. Maybe like Drew's tequila fix for scorched beer, the fix for soy sauce beer could be adding wasabi
Title: Re: BIG barley wine recipe for LONG aging
Post by: morticaixavier on March 24, 2014, 11:12:58 AM
Any update on how these beers are doing? I just had my first born daughter and was hoping to do the same thing – let a big barleywine sit for 18 years to drink with her.

The original 2011 vintage is getting pretty tasty at this point. I had to stop tasting it for a few years as the number of bottles started to diminish. Hops are almost non existent  at this point. Carbonation is low. It won a second place ribbon st the national organic brewing challenge last year.
2012 is also nice, carbonation a little better because I used enough sugar this time. Hops still not assertive enough.
2013 is in bottles now for about a month. Best one yet. Delicious right out of the fermenter. I force carbed this one and bottled from the keg. I also used a lot more bittering hops and it shows.