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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: brewmonk on February 21, 2011, 08:34:07 AM

Title: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: brewmonk on February 21, 2011, 08:34:07 AM
[EDIT: I didn't read the packet close enough. WYeast is not putting out contradictory information.  I humbly apologize for the confusion  :-[ ]

I'm finally getting around to my 2nd batch, and am using Denny's Favorite 50.  The WYeast package it came in has on the package a range of 21-24 degrees C, but when I look on the WYeast website it says 15-21 degrees C.  I'm assuming if I've been fermenting at the higher temps according to the package it won't make much of a difference, but I find the conflicting information odd given they are both from WYeast
Admittedly, the package looks like a generic WYeast package with "Denny's Favorite 50" stamped on it.  I'm in Italy, so I assume there's a WYeast lab affiliate here in Europe somewhere.  Would they have less accurate packaging procedures though?
Since I'm a noobie, I don't know how big the margin of error is on certain things yet.

Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: tschmidlin on February 21, 2011, 08:45:59 AM
I'm sure Denny will chime in when he sees this, but in case you are in a rush  . . . my notes on Brewtek CL-50, which is what Denny's Favorite is, say to ferment between 60-70F, so 15.5-21.1 F.  It looks like the website is the best source of information in this case.

As far as I know they have dealers in various countries, but there is no European affiliate of Wyeast.  If there is I'd love to hear about it.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: phillamb168 on February 21, 2011, 08:57:44 AM
As far as I know they have dealers in various countries, but there is no European affiliate of Wyeast.  If there is I'd love to hear about it.

You might try contacting Brouwland - they're the major European distributor for Wyeast. http://www.brouwland.com
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: tschmidlin on February 21, 2011, 09:16:37 AM
I sent an email to Greg Doss, it might take him a couple of days to get back to me but when he does I'll let you know what he says.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: bluesman on February 21, 2011, 12:35:25 PM
I've used 1450 quite a bit and it ferments nicely at 65F which is about 18C. It has a slight lag but then takes off pretty good and finishes within a few days. I give it at least 14 days before I rack into the keg. I have even fermented in the low 60's with good success.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 21, 2011, 01:37:23 PM
I'm in Italy, so I assume there's a WYeast lab affiliate here in Europe somewhere. 
<snip>
Since I'm a noobie, I don't know how big the margin of error is on certain things yet.
A good practice is to pitch a little colder that the fermentation temp and let the temp rise to the stated fermentation temp.

If you are homebrewing in Italy, you are making me jealous.  Make the most of your time there.  Couldn't always find good beer there 5-6 years back, but good food and wine were no problem.

Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: brewmonk on February 21, 2011, 01:45:47 PM
Geeze, do I feel foolish.  When in doubt read the instructions.  WYeast had no conflicting information.  The higher temperature was the pitching temperature, then the last step "adjust to desired fermentation temperature."

So, forgive my false accusation of WYeast.  Their package was accurate.

Still, I have mistakenly been fermenting a bit higher (around 22 C), will this cause problems?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 21, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
I would not want to go any higher than 22C.  It will make beer, though.

Try controling the temps on the next beer.  Pitch low and let it rise up.  See if you like that beer better.  Fermentation control is one of the keys to making excellent beer.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: brewmonk on February 21, 2011, 03:20:10 PM
Could that be why there is a green apple smell, because I am fermenting a bit higher? or is that just natural with Denny's Fav? (I pray I don't have bacteria).

The recipe is:
50 g cracked crystal malt
100 g of cracked chocolate malt (both steeped 30 min at about 70° C in 1 gallon of water)
added 2 more gallons of water after steeping and brought to boil
1 can of coopers lager liquid malt kit (added at boil)
1.5 kg (about 3 lbs) of light dry malt extract (added at boil)
boil time of 20 min
20 g Hallertaur Hersbrucker (added in last 10 min of boil)
topped off to a total of 5 gallons
yeast: Denny’s Favorite 50
OG was 1.060

Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 21, 2011, 03:28:42 PM
You may have racked too soon.  Let the beer tell you when it is ready, not the calender.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: brewmonk on February 21, 2011, 03:38:20 PM
No, I haven't racked yet.  It is still fermenting, but the smell coming from the bubbler is green apple.  I plan to let it sit for about a month total, but confirm with multiple gravity readings.

Like I said, I'm a noobie, so I have yet to let "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" sink in yet.  ;)  I guess I just don't quite know what to expect when fermenting, as this is only my second batch ever.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: denny on February 21, 2011, 04:28:10 PM
No, I haven't racked yet.  It is still fermenting, but the smell coming from the bubbler is green apple.  I plan to let it sit for about a month total, but confirm with multiple gravity readings.

Like I said, I'm a noobie, so I have yet to let "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" sink in yet.  ;)  I guess I just don't quite know what to expect when fermenting, as this is only my second batch ever.


I pitch around 60F and ferment it 62-65F.

Did you make a starter with it?
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: tschmidlin on February 21, 2011, 06:12:24 PM
Well, I heard back from Greg rather quickly - he said that they ship quite a bit of yeast to Europe, they have no affiliate lab there.  He also said there was no packaging they use that had stickers on it - can you post a pic?  I'll let him know about the instructions mix up though.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: brewmonk on February 21, 2011, 06:18:38 PM
Well, I heard back from Greg rather quickly - he said that they ship quite a bit of yeast to Europe, they have no affiliate lab there.  He also said there was no packaging they use that had stickers on it - can you post a pic?  I'll let him know about the instructions mix up though.
No mix up in packaging.  I failed to read ALL the instructions and confused the pitching temperature as the fermenting temperature.  As I looked at the last line of the instructions, it said "adjust to desired fermentation temperature."  Sorry for the confusion.  There was actually no fermentation temperature listed on the package.

Denny, no, I didn't make a starter.  Just let the smack pack swell for about 2 hours.


Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: dak0415 on February 21, 2011, 06:28:23 PM
Denny, no, I didn't make a starter.  Just let the smack pack swell for about 2 hours.
BAD Brewmonk! Denny - Send him back to 'First Kit'
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: tschmidlin on February 21, 2011, 06:30:44 PM
No mix up in packaging.  I failed to read ALL the instructions and confused the pitching temperature as the fermenting temperature.  As I looked at the last line of the instructions, it said "adjust to desired fermentation temperature."  Sorry for the confusion.  There was actually no fermentation temperature listed on the package.
Right, I meant I'd let him know that you mixed up the instructions, not Wyeast :)  I didn't want him to waste time trying to track down a potential problem with their yeast in Europe.  What you are describing sounds like their standard packaging.  They don't have any that is individual by strain, the strain and mfg date are printed on the package.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: denny on February 21, 2011, 06:42:19 PM

Denny, no, I didn't make a starter.  Just let the smack pack swell for about 2 hours.

Do yourself and your beer a favor...ALWAYS make a starter.  And I don't know exactly what Wyeast's temp recommendations are, but always pitch at a slightly lower temp than your intended fermentation temp.  I recommend fermentation for 1450 at about 18C.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 21, 2011, 06:56:50 PM
No, I haven't racked yet.  It is still fermenting, but the smell coming from the bubbler is green apple.  I plan to let it sit for about a month total, but confirm with multiple gravity readings.

Like I said, I'm a noobie, so I have yet to let "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" sink in yet.  ;)  I guess I just don't quite know what to expect when fermenting, as this is only my second batch ever.

At this point, letting it sit on the yeast for 3 to 4 weeks total is the best strategy. 

I never get too worked up on the smells from fermentation, unless something really off is going on.  Having done lagers that smell like rotten eggs while fermenting, then turn out to have nothing but malt and hops in the aroma, makes one adopt the  RDWHAHB mantra.
Title: Re: Ideal temperatures on fermentation
Post by: brewmonk on February 22, 2011, 06:45:34 AM
No mix up in packaging.  I failed to read ALL the instructions and confused the pitching temperature as the fermenting temperature.  As I looked at the last line of the instructions, it said "adjust to desired fermentation temperature."  Sorry for the confusion.  There was actually no fermentation temperature listed on the package.
Right, I meant I'd let him know that you mixed up the instructions, not Wyeast :)  I didn't want him to waste time trying to track down a potential problem with their yeast in Europe.  What you are describing sounds like their standard packaging.  They don't have any that is individual by strain, the strain and mfg date are printed on the package.

Yes, you're right on about the package.  Thanks for letting him know.

Do yourself and your beer a favor...ALWAYS make a starter.  And I don't know exactly what Wyeast's temp recommendations are, but always pitch at a slightly lower temp than your intended fermentation temp.  I recommend fermentation for 1450 at about 18C.

At this point, letting it sit on the yeast for 3 to 4 weeks total is the best strategy. 
I never get too worked up on the smells from fermentation, unless something really off is going on.  Having done lagers that smell like rotten eggs while fermenting, then turn out to have nothing but malt and hops in the aroma, makes one adopt the  RDWHAHB mantra.

Thanks for the advice, guys.  Guess I'm just going through beginner's nervousness.  Making a starter will help me take the next step up.  And I'll work harder on the RDWHAHB thing!  ;D