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General Category => Pimp My System => Topic started by: rayallen on February 27, 2011, 06:23:27 AM

Title: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on February 27, 2011, 06:23:27 AM
Made a post in the equipment section and got some much needed advice. I have to say you guys on here make a newbie feel welcome and not stupid to ask question. I have to admit im one of those guys who will walk around a store for a hour before I cave in and ask for help, my wife loves it ::)

Drove up to Austin, TX and visited Austin HomeBrew Supply, excellent place and customer service.
Had a little shopping spree and spent approx $750 another $200 on the Chest Freezer. Got everything I need to build a sweet keezer.

Plan on dressing it up a bit and it will have a collar with 4taps to start.

A list of things I bought

New 7.0 Chest Freezer (will hold 5kegs and my slim gas tank)
4 taps and shanks
Lots of hose
2 ball-lock corneys
new slim 7lb CO2 tank
Regulator with 2 gauges
Johnson Digital Temp Control
4 line manifold
All the fitting and parts needed for the hoses/kegs etc..
Sanitizer
New copy of John A Palmer's Hot to Brew
Also got the ingredients to make a Belgian White

Some Pics :D

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer018.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer003.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer009.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer012.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer010.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer013.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer011.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/Keezer015.jpg)

Will be taking a trip to lowes tommorow for lumber for the color and a 7/8" bit.

MORE PICS TO COME AS PROGRESS IS MADE

Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on February 27, 2011, 06:52:42 AM
[shrill voice] AWE-SOME![/shrill voice]

I too have spent a fair amount of cash at AHBS. ;)

That hook got set deep didn't it? Well there's nothing wrong with going all out. Especially when it comes to dispensing and serving.

BTW I love that floor treatment. Been waiting for someone to stain concrete for home flooring. Looks great.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tschmidlin on February 27, 2011, 09:00:59 AM
Sweet :)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: Mark G on February 27, 2011, 01:16:35 PM
Can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: bluesman on February 27, 2011, 03:37:08 PM
Exciting time!

Looking forward to the progress Ray.  :)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on February 27, 2011, 04:11:17 PM
thanks guys, looking forward to being able to serve myself cold beer out of a tap.

Euge thanks on the comment about the floors, I did them myself. A lot of hard work but it paid off.

And Oh yeah the hook is set way deep, going head 1st into this hobby.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: gsandel on February 27, 2011, 04:37:13 PM
I am jealous of all the brand spanking new stuff you bought!  Your dilemma now is whether to brew now and race to finish said keezer, or continue to remain (relatively) sober and make progress on the keezer.

A little bit of advice when you finally get it all together, hooked up with beer and are working on getting the pour correct.  You CAN get drunk on just foam.   :)

Keep all of us looky lou's in the loop.

regards,
g

Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on February 27, 2011, 04:48:55 PM
I am jealous of all the brand spanking new stuff you bought!  Your dilemma now is whether to brew now and race to finish said keezer, or continue to remain (relatively) sober and make progress on the keezer.

A little bit of advice when you finally get it all together, hooked up with beer and are working on getting the pour correct.  You CAN get drunk on just foam.   :)

Keep all of us looky lou's in the loop.

regards,
g



Everything is new except the corney kegs. I wasnt planning on dropping $750 yesterday at AHBS but the salesman was good and I would rather have the better equipment so that Im not having to replace it later.

I should note I got out of one hobby to go into Beer Brewing as a new hobby, all the $$ I made from selling my last hobby is paying for all of this. No money out of pocket   :)

I know its all going to be worth it that 1st party, when everyone is enjoying my beer out of my taps. My wife and I love entertaining people and host the annual halloween and New Years parties, so this will add a fun touch.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tschmidlin on February 27, 2011, 08:33:05 PM
Not to be nosy, but what was the old hobby you're walking away from? 
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: gsandel on February 27, 2011, 09:58:14 PM
Quote
I know its all going to be worth it that 1st party, when everyone is enjoying my beer out of my taps. My wife and I love entertaining people and host the annual halloween and New Years parties, so this will add a fun touch.

I know we all can't wait for the invite! :)  Happy Building!
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: EHall on February 27, 2011, 11:56:08 PM
is that stained concrete?
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on February 28, 2011, 03:40:54 AM
Not to be nosy, but what was the old hobby you're walking away from? 

Ive been keeping Saltwater Reef Aquariums for the last 7 years, and decided it was time to take a break. Its a very time and financial consuming hobby.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on February 28, 2011, 03:42:47 AM
is that stained concrete?

Sure is, as mentioned above I did the work myself. Like anything in life- put in a little blood, sweat and elbow grease and you will always be happy with the outcome.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tschmidlin on February 28, 2011, 07:29:17 AM
Not to be nosy, but what was the old hobby you're walking away from? 

Ive been keeping Saltwater Reef Aquariums for the last 7 years, and decided it was time to take a break. Its a very time and financial consuming hobby.
Ah, I did that for a while.  Very fun and rewarding, but hard to take a break without losing a lot of investment.  With brewing you can go on vacation and not worry too much.  Good choice :)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: dak0415 on February 28, 2011, 02:05:48 PM
Not to be nosy, but what was the old hobby you're walking away from? 

Ive been keeping Saltwater Reef Aquariums for the last 7 years, and decided it was time to take a break. Its a very time and financial consuming hobby.
And you can't eat your fish! (Well, once ;D)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: dano14041 on February 28, 2011, 05:59:01 PM
Let us see it when your done! With the look of your floor, I can only imagine it will be a real looker!
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 01, 2011, 05:12:48 PM
builds coming slowly but surely.

Will look nice but not flashy. My main goal is to get it up and running and then worry about skinning it with some nice birch later on.

Only thing im concerned about, and im sure you guys have run into this.

Now that the collars on the lid with rubber gasket doesnt seal as tight in the front of the freezer. I put a bright light on the inside of the freezer and turned the lights off in the room and can see light escaping at the front corners. Obviously if light is escaping so will the cold air. Short of putting some kind of latch on the front of the lid to make sure its closes tight im not sure what to do about it.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tschmidlin on March 01, 2011, 05:30:11 PM
I used a foam gasket under the collar and it compressed enough to seal any irregularities in the material (or my building skills).  Is that where you mean?  Or do you mean between the lid and the collar?  My lid gasket seals fine, maybe I got lucky.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: bluesman on March 01, 2011, 05:35:52 PM
I used a foam gasket under the collar and it compressed enough to seal any irregularities in the material (or my building skills).  Is that where you mean?  Or do you mean between the lid and the collar?  My lid gasket seals fine, maybe I got lucky.

+1

I use weather stripping to help seal the collar to the freezer housing and the lid to the collar. Check the Home Depot or Lowes. It comes is self adhesive rolls.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 01, 2011, 07:47:03 PM
I sealed the collar to the freezer itself.

the problem is the lid on the collar is gapping a little, I put some weight on it over night and I think it helped form the seal onto the collar so the problem may be fixed..
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: riverrat on March 01, 2011, 08:05:47 PM
Your hinges may possibly be mounted a little bit off as well.  Most freezer lids I have seen have slots for mounting them to make them adjustable.  Close the lid, loosen all the screws on either the top or bottom of the hinge (the slotted ones), let the lid sit as flat as possible on the collar, then re-tighten the screws without moving the lid.  This will help you get even pressure all the way around the gasket.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 01, 2011, 08:49:24 PM
Your hinges may possibly be mounted a little bit off as well.  Most freezer lids I have seen have slots for mounting them to make them adjustable.  Close the lid, loosen all the screws on either the top or bottom of the hinge (the slotted ones), let the lid sit as flat as possible on the collar, then re-tighten the screws without moving the lid.  This will help you get even pressure all the way around the gasket.

Sounds easy enough, I will see if that helps.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rabid_dingo on March 02, 2011, 03:58:11 AM
Almost as exciting as following a pregnancy.
We are all excited for you, and can't wait to see the results. ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 02, 2011, 04:52:20 AM
Pics of work will be posted tommorow, not 100% completed but in operating status. Never used C02 tanks before and Im a bit clueless. Think I burned through a lot of my gas just tinkering with it all night. Had a leak but solved it, I hope.

till tommorow....
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 02, 2011, 11:57:18 PM
Ok some pics now, Its not 100% done plan on skinning it eventually, but is running.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer004.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer005.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer006.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer011-1.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer017.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer018-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 02, 2011, 11:58:42 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer023.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer026.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer029.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer030.jpg)
(http://h[IMG]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer051.jpg)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 03, 2011, 12:00:41 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer052.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer053.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer055.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer056.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer049.jpg)

Put some of my favorite tap handles on for fun. Cant wait to have my own tap handles for my beer
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/keezer043.jpg)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: bluesman on March 03, 2011, 12:02:11 AM
Wow Ray...that is sweet!

I'll take a Dogfish 60min.  ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 03, 2011, 12:07:40 AM
I went with 2x8s for the collar. The Digital Johnson Temp control keeps this baby cold. Still have to make it nice and neet on the inside, tie off the tubes and make them nice and neat around the paremeter. Not a big fan of the birds nest look. Also going to label everything.

Chilling some of my wifes wine to keep her happy.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 03, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
Wow Ray...that is sweet!

I'll take a Dogfish 60min.  ;D

I could use one myself!
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tschmidlin on March 03, 2011, 12:14:25 AM
Nicely done!
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: Mark G on March 03, 2011, 12:17:56 AM
That turned out very nicely. Well done.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 03, 2011, 12:22:14 AM
Thanks guys, really liking it.

Once it gets a skin of some sort it will give it a classy look.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: gsandel on March 03, 2011, 04:24:04 AM
Bravo!  We (all 100,000 of us) will be over on Friday. :)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 03, 2011, 04:43:27 AM
Bravo!  We (all 100,000 of us) will be over on Friday. :)

Come on over, the more the merrier! ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 04, 2011, 01:21:27 AM
Yeah, great job!  I have a four tapper with a very similar configuration.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 04, 2011, 03:47:23 AM
Yeah, great job!  I have a four tapper with a very similar configuration.

Thanks, Im loving it. Always cool to say, I built that...
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tonyp on March 04, 2011, 04:10:54 AM
Nice job! It really looks good. How far apart are the taps (on center)? They look a little close together once the tap handles are on.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 04, 2011, 05:45:07 AM
The holes were drilled 3" apart. Now that its together 4" would have been better.

Just have to be creative when I make my tap handles so that they are not bumping.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on March 04, 2011, 06:31:14 AM
The holes were drilled 3" apart. Now that its together 4" would have been better.

Just have to be creative when I make my tap handles so that they are not bumping.

If you wanted to adjust do a re-drill and fill the old holes with dowel pegs. A little putty and sanding. The tap handles don't look like they interfere with each other as is, though.

Nice build. Now you need to get 4 beers on tap. :D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 04, 2011, 02:54:45 PM
The holes were drilled 3" apart. Now that its together 4" would have been better.

Just have to be creative when I make my tap handles so that they are not bumping.

If you wanted to adjust do a re-drill and fill the old holes with dowel pegs. A little putty and sanding. The tap handles don't look like they interfere with each other as is, though.

Nice build. Now you need to get 4 beers on tap. :D

They dont interfere with each other at all. If you look at the pic with the 4lrg commercial taps, I could pull each open without hit the one next to it. So im leaving as is.

Working on my 2nd beer now.. :)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: Mark G on March 04, 2011, 02:56:43 PM
The holes were drilled 3" apart. Now that its together 4" would have been better.

Just have to be creative when I make my tap handles so that they are not bumping.

If you wanted to adjust do a re-drill and fill the old holes with dowel pegs. A little putty and sanding. The tap handles don't look like they interfere with each other as is, though.

Nice build. Now you need to get 4 beers on tap. :D
There's the tricky part... Getting all the taps going. I built a 6 tap kegerator last November to replace my defunct 2 tap setup. I finally got my sixth beer on tap two days ago.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on March 04, 2011, 06:38:48 PM
There's the tricky part... Getting all the taps going. I built a 6 tap kegerator last November to replace my defunct 2 tap setup. I finally got my sixth beer on tap two days ago.

I can barely keep two going. ::)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 04, 2011, 11:58:08 PM
yea, im going to burn through these 1st two batches fast. Going to have a party here in a couple of weeks and I have a lot people who volunteered to be taste testers.

Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: oscarvan on March 11, 2011, 01:53:08 AM
There's the tricky part... Getting all the taps going. I built a 6 tap kegerator last November to replace my defunct 2 tap setup. I finally got my sixth beer on tap two days ago.

I can barely keep two going. ::)

Tell me about it..... three, and there's always one empty. But, got four kegs in the pipeline as we speak and brewing more tomorrow.

By the way, Ray, nice setup. I like the balls to the wall dive right in approach..... Started brewing in October, now have a 10G all grain setup, a keggerator with three taps and two freezmenters..... ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on March 11, 2011, 04:17:23 AM


Tell me about it..... three, and there's always one empty. But, got four kegs in the pipeline as we speak and brewing more tomorrow.

By the way, Ray, nice setup. I like the balls to the wall dive right in approach..... Started brewing in October, now have a 10G all grain setup, a keggerator with three taps and two freezmenters..... ;D
[/quote]

Man I know, this hobby sucked me right in.

Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: bluesman on March 11, 2011, 04:28:48 AM
Man I know, this hobby sucked me right in.

It has a way of doing that...welcome to the hobby.   ;)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on March 11, 2011, 06:19:24 AM
Man I know, this hobby sucked me right in.

It has a way of doing that...welcome to the hobby.   ;)


Is that what we are calling it now?  8)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: oscarvan on March 11, 2011, 01:10:02 PM
Man I know, this hobby sucked me right in.

It has a way of doing that...welcome to the hobby.   ;)


Is that what we are calling it now?  8)

Yeah....... "Survival Strategy" is a little dramatic.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: tumarkin on March 11, 2011, 01:15:31 PM
Man I know, this hobby sucked me right in.

It has a way of doing that...welcome to the hobby.   ;)


Is that what we are calling it now?  8)

Dave Barry wrote "There's a fine line between hobby and obsession." To be polite, we can use the term hobby, but it's clear most of us crossed that line long ago.
"
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: oscarvan on March 12, 2011, 02:31:19 AM
Dave Barry wrote "There's a fine line between hobby and obsession." To be polite, we can use the term hobby, but it's clear most of us crossed that line long ago.
"

Not me, no sir. I am just taking it seriously.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: bluesman on March 12, 2011, 04:34:58 AM
Dave Barry wrote "There's a fine line between hobby and obsession." To be polite, we can use the term hobby, but it's clear most of us crossed that line long ago.
"

Not me, no sir. I am just taking it seriously.

Welcome to our obsession!  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on March 12, 2011, 06:56:15 AM
Dave Barry wrote "There's a fine line between hobby and obsession." To be polite, we can use the term hobby, but it's clear most of us crossed that line long ago.
"

Not me, no sir. I am just taking it seriously.

Looks like it's time for an intervention. Oscar, you are making some of us look like mere dilettantes. ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: dano14041 on March 12, 2011, 07:31:22 PM
Dave Barry wrote "There's a fine line between hobby and obsession." To be polite, we can use the term hobby, but it's clear most of us crossed that line long ago.
"

Not me, no sir. I am just taking it seriously.

Looks like it's time for an intervention. Oscar, you are making some of us look like mere dilettantes. ;D

An intervention? Is that where we all converge on Oscar's house and drink all his brew? I like the sound of that!
 ;D
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on March 12, 2011, 08:07:01 PM
OK Oscar we're on our way...
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: oscarvan on March 15, 2011, 03:05:21 AM
At least y'all know how to brew so I can put you to work on the rig. I have over 200# of two row in stock, so we should be OK for a while. Oops, did I just reveal I have 1/10th of a TON of grain....... :o
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on March 15, 2011, 05:20:06 AM
At least y'all know how to brew so I can put you to work on the rig. I have over 200# of two row in stock, so we should be OK for a while. Oops, did I just reveal I have 1/10th of a TON of grain....... :o

Wow. Only four sacks? Better get to brewin dude or you'll discover the dark side of all-grain: weevils. And I don't mean just a few of them... :(
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: oscarvan on March 16, 2011, 02:51:44 AM
At least y'all know how to brew so I can put you to work on the rig. I have over 200# of two row in stock, so we should be OK for a while. Oops, did I just reveal I have 1/10th of a TON of grain....... :o

Wow. Only four sacks? Better get to brewin dude or you'll discover the dark side of all-grain: weevils. And I don't mean just a few of them... :(

In large tight lidded garbage cans.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on May 24, 2011, 03:12:37 AM
Cleaned up the rats nest of tubing.

Cant wait to have this baby holding all 4 kegs at one time


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/frogguy1/noratsnest.jpg)
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: euge on May 24, 2011, 03:58:14 AM
That's mighty clean build there Ray. Making me jealous and might have to build one up as well so I can have more than 2 kegs on tap at any one time and be cold conditioning others. 
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on May 24, 2011, 01:16:58 PM
Thanks Euge

I think later I will be buying a seperate frige or freezer for lagering.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: ibru on May 24, 2011, 02:51:14 PM
Hey Ray
Great build! I've been following your progress and am impressed with the end product. Do you have beer on all four taps?

I didn't see any electrical wires that went to the lid of the freezer. The "donor" freezer I'm looking at has wiring to the lid for the light. Just wondering if I should splice in an extension or cap it off and not have a light.

Hope you're enjoying!
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on May 24, 2011, 03:56:25 PM
Hey Ray
Great build! I've been following your progress and am impressed with the end product. Do you have beer on all four taps?

I didn't see any electrical wires that went to the lid of the freezer. The "donor" freezer I'm looking at has wiring to the lid for the light. Just wondering if I should splice in an extension or cap it off and not have a light.

Hope you're enjoying!

Thanks ibru for the compliment, especially with me being a new guy here.

As far as the light in concerned it can not hurt to have one. I opted not to buy a freezer with one for a couple of reasons. 1- I got this freezer new at a excellent price from lowes. 2- its in my pub room with plenty of light already and I can see just fine without one. So keep it if youd like, it wont hurt anything. Look forward to seeing your build.

My Keezer will be this way for the next few months, I do plan on skinning it to make it look a bit more fancy later on.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: roguenationpatriot on August 14, 2011, 01:43:05 AM
I've been think thinking about going that route, I'll be interest to see how it come out.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: pricepeeler on August 17, 2011, 10:50:42 PM
Not to be nosy, but what was the old hobby you're walking away from? 

Ive been keeping Saltwater Reef Aquariums for the last 7 years, and decided it was time to take a break. Its a very time and financial consuming hobby.

I have kept an 80 Gallon and 120 Gallon Saltwater Reef Tank in the recent past, I feel you there. 
Currently selling my aquarium equipment, just to much going on to be focusing time, money, and energy into aquariums.
Putting some of that money towards brewing equipment.
We entertain a lot, so brewing beer will be a fun hobby everyone can enjoy.

Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on August 20, 2011, 02:53:51 AM
Not to be nosy, but what was the old hobby you're walking away from? 

Ive been keeping Saltwater Reef Aquariums for the last 7 years, and decided it was time to take a break. Its a very time and financial consuming hobby.

I have kept an 80 Gallon and 120 Gallon Saltwater Reef Tank in the recent past, I feel you there. 
Currently selling my aquarium equipment, just to much going on to be focusing time, money, and energy into aquariums.
Putting some of that money towards brewing equipment.
We entertain a lot, so brewing beer will be a fun hobby everyone can enjoy.



yea, I just sold my last aquarium a few weeks ago. The 1st time ive been absolutely 100% without one in years. Have to tell you im loving have the time to focus on my other hobbies.

Havnt updated on here in a while because my newest car/toy/hobby is keeping me busy. I bought a 1964 Econoline Van, and man is it fun. Still brewing though, getting back into the swing of things this weekend when I go shopping at Austin Home Brew Supply :) So look for future updates on my brew setup.
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: woadwarrior on August 25, 2011, 09:57:34 PM
So. Have you skinned it yet?
Title: Re: Keezer build
Post by: rayallen on September 28, 2011, 05:58:22 PM
Nope, got back from Vacation a couple of weeks ago and have been working on my 1964 van. Still trying to figure out how I want to skin it. I know some guys that work a lot with vinyl and it can look pretty cool. May go that route.