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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: aubeertine31 on February 27, 2011, 08:07:17 PM

Title: Drainage time
Post by: aubeertine31 on February 27, 2011, 08:07:17 PM
Just dove in and did my first AG batch earlier this week. All-in-all it went pretty well, but I guess I'm not sure what is "normal". I have a big rectangular cooler with a braided mesh and I did a small 3-gallon (total) batch. How long does it typically take to drain with this type of set-up?
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: Kirk on February 27, 2011, 10:08:43 PM
Generally, slow is better.  Don't get in a hurry.  Did you do a mashout?  Did you vorlauf until it's clear?  That prepares the grain bed.  From that point you should be able to get clear wort as long as you don't completely drain the bed.  Some batch sparge, some fly sparge.  But if you did a mashout, it shouldn't matter much.  Just try to avoid draining it dry, or you will get grains and crud again, just like you did with the vorlauf.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: morticaixavier on February 28, 2011, 12:05:41 AM
I am pretty new to AG as well but from what I have read on here with the cooler and braid batch sparge setup you can more or less let it go as fast as it will drain. You can vorlouf a couple of quarts till it clears up a bit and then let her rip. I just did a 5 gallon batch in a 70 qt rectangular cooler and it took about 15 minutes to run out my first runnings. Add mash water and stir and vorlouf again. That time I let it drain really thouroughly and it took maybe 30 minutes but the last 15 was a trickle.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: kcjaz on February 28, 2011, 03:31:19 AM
I go really slow.  I brew 11 gallon batches and sparge 8 gallons through the grain bed and just drain the last three.  It takes me anywhere between 60 minutes to 90 minutes to fill my BK.  I could open up the valve more and go a lot faster but it has always been an experiment I've been afraid to try.  My efficiency is 80 to 85 and I don't generally have clarity issues so I don't think I need to go any slower.  Perhaps I could go faster though with no ill affect.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: alikocho on February 28, 2011, 07:44:45 AM
Denny says go as fast as you like!
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/ (http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: tygo on February 28, 2011, 11:50:38 AM
Denny says go as fast as you like!
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/ (http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/)


Denny says go as fast as your system will allow.  On my system, and I believe on his as well, that's full out as fast as it will go.  But that could be a bit different from system to system.

It takes me about 30-40 minutes from the time I start the initial vorlauf until I start the boil.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: aubeertine31 on February 28, 2011, 01:51:02 PM
Hey thanks guys,

I did vorlauf and batch sparge, I did not do a mash-out, as I heard most of the time it isn't really necessary. I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: tygo on February 28, 2011, 02:26:09 PM
That's really slow.  What kind of rectangular cooler do you have?  How fine did you crush your grain?  It may be the braid but it may be that you ground the grist too fine.  You can also try tilting the cooler and propping it up before you start your vorlauf to help keep things moving.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: Hokerer on February 28, 2011, 02:32:19 PM
I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice

Are you sure your braid is really stainless?  People have been fooled by the lookalikes from the big box stores that are actually plastic.  Folks that have fallen for that say that it takes forever and a day to drain.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on February 28, 2011, 04:33:13 PM
Generally, slow is better.

Fly sparging, yes.  Batch sparging, it doesn't matter.

It takes me a total of 15 min. to vorlauf and runoff the mash, stir in the sparge water, vorlauf that and run off the sparge.  That's for about 8 gal. of runoff in the kettle.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: johnny_b on February 28, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Typically about 20 minutes for a 12 gallon boil volume. (Ice Cube cooler with a manifold)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: aubeertine31 on February 28, 2011, 09:06:16 PM
I did try tilting it up and that did seem to help, but I thought I remembered something in John Palmer's book about fluid mechanics so I wasn't sure if this was the best idea. I'll have to check on the type of braid I grabbed, to be honest, I didn't even think about it. Just saw and grabbed. I'll be pissed if it is plastic though, the one I had, had a thick rubber hose on the inside (all of the examples I've seen were plastic hoses) and I nearly busted a nut trying to get it out. I also don't think the grist was too fine, just based on pictures I had seen, it seemed rather coarse, a lot of the husks were still intact. I guess the only answer is to make more beer!
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: Hokerer on February 28, 2011, 09:52:04 PM
I'll have to check on the type of braid I grabbed, to be honest, I didn't even think about it. Just saw and grabbed.

You might be a redneck if....  oh wait, wrong saying.

It might be plastic if...

When cutting/working/removing the braid, you were able to get your fingers within six inches of the cut ends without poking your fingers full of holes.

It might be plastic if...

After you folded and crimped the end of the braid, it kept trying to loosen/unroll

It might be plastic if...

You can hold a match to the frayed braid end and it "fuses" like nylon rope.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on February 28, 2011, 11:26:26 PM
I did try tilting it up and that did seem to help, but I thought I remembered something in John Palmer's book about fluid mechanics so I wasn't sure if this was the best idea. I'll have to check on the type of braid I grabbed, to be honest, I didn't even think about it. Just saw and grabbed. I'll be pissed if it is plastic though, the one I had, had a thick rubber hose on the inside (all of the examples I've seen were plastic hoses) and I nearly busted a nut trying to get it out. I also don't think the grist was too fine, just based on pictures I had seen, it seemed rather coarse, a lot of the husks were still intact. I guess the only answer is to make more beer!

Keep in mind that if you're batch sparging, all of John's info on fluid dynamics has no bearing on what you're doing.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: oscarvan on March 01, 2011, 01:12:18 AM
Hey thanks guys,

I did vorlauf and batch sparge, I did not do a mash-out, as I heard most of the time it isn't really necessary. I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice


Aaaahhhh I KNOW that feeling.... Try "malt conditioning" the easy version is this: Put all the grains in a large tub, and whilst stirring the grains around with one hand, operate a plant sprayer with water with the other. Moisten the grains....don't soak them. We're talking.....30-50 squirts for 20+ pounds of grain. (Der Kaiser can give you science based numbers) Let them sit for 15 minutes. What you are doing is moistening the husks. It makes them less brittle and then when you send them through the mill they come out whole, almost all of them. It make for a much better grain bed which will flow as well as you would like.

I will never ever mash another load without doing this.

Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 01, 2011, 01:21:27 AM
I have no doubt that malt conditioning works.   I also have no doubt that with my equipment it's not necessary.  Personally, I guess I'd rather fix the issue at the source than have to condition malt every time I crush.  I know, I know...it's easy.  But so is assembling equipment, and I rather only do it once than every time.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: oscarvan on March 01, 2011, 02:33:07 AM
Agreed. Then again, I think I have it all set up right, and it was still an issue. Having nice whole husks is a beautiful thing....and in the end it only takes five minutes and all you're adding is some water. I'm sold.

But, then again that is one of the beautiful things about beer. Different regions, different eras.... people figgered out what worked FOR THEM and that's how we got some beautiful beers. If everyone would have done it the same it would have been a BMC world a long time ago.....
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: euge on March 01, 2011, 08:36:07 AM
A bit tangential here but with my new 8 qt mash-tun I've had an interest in this subject. The latest sack of Breiss 2-row's kernels are a lot smaller and they flew through my rollers. I ended up with a pretty coarse crush. Inspecting it closely, there was some flour but a decent percentage of the grains were nearly whole with broken endosperm resting within their skins. Could have run it through again after tightening the gap but... Didn't do it. ;) Instead I ran it roughly between my palms to loosen it up.

I mashed for longer hoping to compensate plus there were some chores blah blah. I felt the lauter was very smooth, and my efficiency wasn't impacted at all. All the while I was thinking of the Brewstrong episode about mash efficiency and how you could mash uncrushed grain if you gave it enough time. Don't know if that was unproven extrapolation on their part.

Ultimately it has me thinking that if I back off my gap a bit more depending on the extant malt characteristics, then I can speed up the lauter.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 01, 2011, 01:10:37 PM
Big plus one to denny. FWIW I fly sparged for years and years before I gave his method a shot. After I tried it I couldn't understand why any homebrewer would ever mess around with fly sparging unless, possibly, because they had a fully automated system. Its just so easy, and I get close to 80 percent efficiency.

Also, I tried malt conditioning and it just added an extra step that made the crushed malt look prettier but didn't really do anything to improve the finished beer. It did, however, make the malt more difficult for my grain mill to crush. YMMV.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: oscarvan on March 01, 2011, 01:22:07 PM
I tried malt conditioning and it just added an extra step that made the crushed malt look prettier but didn't really do anything to improve the finished beer. It did, however, make the malt more difficult for my grain mill to crush. YMMV.

Hmmm, interesting. I have not noticed that. From what I read it should not be so moist as to create any kind of buildup in the rollers. I sorta like playing with my malt for a few minutes before it goes in the tun...... ;D
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 01, 2011, 01:44:58 PM
There was no build up on the rollers. It just caused my motor to have to work much, much harder to turn my rollers. With a more powerful motor it would not have been an issue. I also just didn't get an appreciable return for the extra step. That said, I'm more like denny in a lot of ways. I love brewing, but I'm not into spending more more time and energy than is necessary. The rest of you can geek out all you want.  ;)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 01, 2011, 04:40:24 PM
I sorta like playing with my malt for a few minutes before it goes in the tun...... ;D

You're a new brewer...you'll get over it!  ;)  Kinda like the guys who use carboys so they can watch the fermentation.  After a few hundred batches the thrill goes away.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: maxieboy on March 01, 2011, 04:50:54 PM
You're a new brewer...you'll get over it!  ;)  Kinda like the guys who use carboys so they can watch the fermentation.  After a few hundred batches the thrill goes away.

Not here! 11 yrs., 300+ batches all fermented in carboys and still dig it. I liken it to watching a campfire or fireplace...
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: Pi on March 01, 2011, 05:35:22 PM
Not here! 11 yrs., 300+ batches all fermented in carboys and still dig it. I liken it to watching a campfire or fireplace...
[/quote]
Same here. Last night while staring into the malstrom I was thinking "what a great screensaver!".
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 01, 2011, 09:25:23 PM
You guys ride the short bus in school?   :P j/k
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: maxieboy on March 01, 2011, 10:14:04 PM
What school?   ;)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: tubercle on March 01, 2011, 11:37:30 PM
  The Tubercle drains with the valve full open and picks the end on the cooler up about 8 inches to get it all out. Pours in hot water stirs it up, and starts draining wide open again.

 If there is something to fret over, it has to matter.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: malzig on March 02, 2011, 12:03:48 AM
There was no build up on the rollers. It just caused my motor to have to work much, much harder to turn my rollers. With a more powerful motor it would not have been an issue.
I use the hand-crank and malt conditioning doesn't make it any more difficult.  Perhaps you let it sit too long and the grain got rubbery.  I don't really wait any time after spraying the malt with water, just the time it takes for me to weight out the rest of the malt.

Anyway, it's fine that some people have well tuned systems that don't run better with malt conditioning, but the OP has a problem that has a very high probability of being resolved by the very simple technique of spraying a little water on some of his malt.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 02, 2011, 01:15:33 AM
I use the hand-crank and malt conditioning doesn't make it any more difficult.  Perhaps you let it sit too long and the grain got rubbery.  I don't really wait any time after spraying the malt with water, just the time it takes for me to weight out the rest of the malt.

IIRC back when MC became a "hit" there were several people - including Kai - who said the malt was more difficult to crush. The malt was not "rubbery" - my mill just wouldn't crush it as well. Perhaps it has something to do with mill settings. I have mine set very tight.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: malzig on March 02, 2011, 12:25:51 PM
IIRC back when MC became a "hit" there were several people - including Kai - who said the malt was more difficult to crush. The malt was not "rubbery" - my mill just wouldn't crush it as well. Perhaps it has something to do with mill settings. I have mine set very tight.
Perhaps, I can't speak for other people, but I crush quite tightly (85%+ typical mash efficiencies) and malt condition most every batch, now, and I have no noticeable difficulty crushing the grain by hand.  Perhaps it's a difference in the standing moisture level in our grain.  I may be returning my grain to the proper moisture level and you may be at that level, already, and exceed it with conditioning.

I have to store my grain with desiccant because of high humidity, which may have contributed to brittle husks and gradually slower lauter speeds.  Malt conditioning allows me to run the drain wide open and fast, so that I add 1 minute to my process at the beginning and save 5-10 minutes at the end, potentially more.  It sounds like the OP could save an hour.

It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 02, 2011, 04:47:20 PM
It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.

Can you say how it contributed to clarity?

Again, if it works for you, it works, but I also crush very fine average 85% efficiency, and don't condition.  Malt conditioning might help some people, but I'd say it's far from a universal solution.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 02, 2011, 07:49:00 PM
It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.

Can you say how it contributed to clarity?

Again, if it works for you, it works, but I also crush very fine average 85% efficiency, and don't condition.  Malt conditioning might help some people, but I'd say it's far from a universal solution.

I'm gonna guess that the other poster finds that the husk integrity is more in tact which helps with a clearer lauter. However, like you I haven't really found a link between uber clear lautering and clear finished beer.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 02, 2011, 09:17:14 PM
I'm gonna guess that the other poster finds that the husk integrity is more in tact which helps with a clearer lauter. However, like you I haven't really found a link between uber clear lautering and clear finished beer.

Yep.  I've also found that if you really care about clear runoff, pH control is the way to get it.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: bluesman on March 03, 2011, 01:34:50 AM
I have a cooler mash tun with a braid that I've been using for several years now. I crush with a JSP Maltmill set at .039"and I don't malt condition. My crush is fairly fine but not as fine as flour. I can usually drain 30lbs of malt using a 1.25:1 qts/lb in about 10-15min. My beers are typically clear after a few weeks and the tannin levels are non-existent. In fact my most recent ESB is so clear it's like looking through a glass window.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 03, 2011, 02:35:40 AM
I also mash in a cooler with a SS braid.  I drain a little slower than some -- it takes me about 30-40 minutes to collect my first and second runnings (batch sparging).  I've never malt conditioned and I don't have any problem draining.  As for clarity, I'm more inclined to attribute those issues to factors such as pH or the type of malt (see, e.g., the Maris Otter haze thread (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5175.0)).  Since I've been becoming more knowledgeable about water chemistry and how to hit an ideal mash pH, I haven't had any clarity issues whatsoever.  I've been brewing a lot of Pils lately and they turn out clear as a bell -- without adding any finings -- after only one week of lagering.  
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: Hokerer on March 03, 2011, 03:02:46 AM
Braid here also.  Monster Mill at 0.035, no conditioning. 10-15 drain time.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: malzig on March 03, 2011, 03:07:18 AM
... I don't malt condition. My crush is fairly fine but not as fine as flour. I can usually drain 30lbs of malt using a 1.25:1 qts/lb in about 10-15min. My beers are typically clear after a few weeks and the tannin levels are non-existent. In fact my most recent ESB is so clear it's like looking through a glass window.
Then I wouldn't recommend Malt Conditioning to you.  The OP is having trouble with slow run-off, so I think it might help him.  Clearly there is a difference between your two systems.  He can try rebuilding the tun or changing other parameters randomly, and perhaps he'll solve the problem, or he can condition the malt and have a decent probability of solving the problem.
It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.
Can you say how it contributed to clarity?

Again, if it works for you, it works, but I also crush very fine average 85% efficiency, and don't condition.  Malt conditioning might help some people, but I'd say it's far from a universal solution.
Again, I wasn't saying that people who don't have runoff problems should start conditioning their malt (unless they just want to give it a try).  It isn't going to cure a problem that you don't have, just like taking antibiotics aren't going to make you feel betterr if you don't have an infection. I don't think it's easy to come up with another treatment for slow runnings with such a high probablility of solving the problem, other than coarser milling which risks lower efficiency.  I recommend malt conditioning to people who have slow runoff and it seems to help them.

I perfected my current water treatments around the same time as I started Malt Conditioning, so I can't say for sure, and I usually credit my water treatment to my improved clarity.  In fact, I've always had pretty clear beer, but I was controlling my pH and still had some minor haze (nothing I ever fretted about, I could still read the paper through my beers).  Since I've been Malt Conditioning I've had absolutely crystal clear beers as soon as they're carbonated.  Frankly, I'm wondering why people use finings.

I don't bother trying to get clear runnings.  I don't believe that matters, at all.  I've tried it both ways and it never does in my beers.  I think that I may have reduced my already slight polyphenol extraction to even less, thanks to not having a tun full of tattered husks. Perhaps it's just enough to give me a slightly larger leeway with pH and Calcium.  

I don't mean to oversell Malt Conditioning, and I haven't done the proper experiment, I'm just saying that there seems to be a correlation in my brewery.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: 1vertical on March 03, 2011, 06:28:04 AM
I will try to KISS the problem and suggest that the OP double check the bulkhead fitting
and insure it is snug as comfortable and gasketed correctly.  A small leak
at the bulkhead could be the culpret   Also I put a twist of copper wire inside my braid
and tension the braid tube so that the pores are in the compressed....large unconstricted
form....opposite of pullling on the thing like a chinese finger cuff trap. (which makes the pore
dimension smaller)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: dano14041 on March 04, 2011, 02:23:40 AM
I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice

Are you sure your braid is really stainless?  People have been fooled by the lookalikes from the big box stores that are actually plastic.  Folks that have fallen for that say that it takes forever and a day to drain.

I checked my SS braid, and it is plastic.  :o Guess it is time to go find a real one.
Good Thread!  ;)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 04, 2011, 02:28:37 AM
I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice

Are you sure your braid is really stainless?  People have been fooled by the lookalikes from the big box stores that are actually plastic.  Folks that have fallen for that say that it takes forever and a day to drain.

Last I checked Home Despot had plastic a bLowe's had the SS.

I checked my SS braid, and it is plastic.  :o Guess it is time to go find a real one.
Good Thread!  ;)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: dano14041 on March 04, 2011, 02:32:09 AM
That would explain it. I will be at Lowes this weekend! Damn those cheap plastic imitations!  ;)
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: oscarvan on March 05, 2011, 04:12:53 PM
Something I saw hinted at a few times in this thread, but never really highlighted: Storage. Many of you (Denny?) that have no problem crushing fine and draining may be starting with a higher moisture level malt and this less brittleness of the husk......

Just thinking out loud.....
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 05, 2011, 04:32:30 PM
But that doesn't account for the same performance when I open a brand new bag of grain.  Nice idea, but I don't think that's it.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: oscarvan on March 05, 2011, 04:50:50 PM
Are the bags impervious to ambient moisture?
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 05, 2011, 04:57:01 PM
Are the bags impervious to ambient moisture?

If they weren't there would be a lot of pissed off breweries.  They're impervious enough that if I open a new, fresh bag of grain the moisture level should be close to what it was when it left the maltster.  Most of the grain I buy comes in plastic lined bags.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: malzig on March 06, 2011, 02:21:08 PM
Are the bags impervious to ambient moisture?
I don't have a sack at the moment so I can't take a look (all my grain is sealed up in buckets), but isn't the top of the inner bag usually just tied off or closed with a zip-tie?  That wouldn't be moisture impermeable, just resistant.  I imagine that pro-breweries regularly get grains from the same suppliers, so their systems are probably dialed in to the reasonably predictable characteristics of grain from that warehouse.  We're also talking about adding very little moisture, Kai suggests 2%, I usually use closer to 1%, of the grain weight.  This is well within the variation among malt specifications, so you might have no problem with 10 sacks then get a sack that causes slow lautering on your system.

It's not like malt conditioning is a hair-brained idea. According to Kai's site, either malt conditioning or wet milling is used by most German breweries that use traditional lauter tuns.  They seem to make some pretty decent beer. ;)

On the other hand, mill settings, grain bill, braid quality and tun geometry all play a role.  You can probably fine tune your mill to get good efficiency and fast lautering, but you still may get a sack that suddenly leads to slow runnings.  Mash conditioning may help you get through that sack without readjusting your mill.  Or perhaps you want to make a batch with a lot of wheat, rye or oatmeal and don't have rice hulls. 

If you have a plastic braid, you should replace it, but there are variable results from different water supply braids and you might get tired of buying new braids to find a good one.  I do like the larger water-heater supply line braids, which seem to be good for fast runnings.

From my experience, rectangular coolers can tend to run faster than taller, narrower coolers with less surface area.  They probably help to spread out the oberteig, reducing drag.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: majorvices on March 06, 2011, 02:44:19 PM

It's not like malt conditioning is a hair-brained idea. According to Kai's site, either malt conditioning or wet milling is used by most German breweries that use traditional lauter tuns.  They seem to make some pretty decent beer. ;)

Its not just german breweries, lots of US breweries wet mill their malt. I certainly don't think, nor ever said it was a hair brained idea. I understand its usefulness in large scale operations. I just found it was more trouble than it was worth on small scale brewing - for me personally.

I get sacks regularly and some are sealed up all the way to the top of the sewed on seam. Others are knotted pretty tightly with a rubber band. I've kept malt sitting on the pallet on the floor of my brewery for 4 months with no noticeable moisture pick up.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: denny on March 06, 2011, 03:04:44 PM
The Best Malz that I normally use are in a nylon (?) woven bag with a plastic bag inner liner.  That inner liner is completely sealed.  As close to impermeable as I can imagine.  I certainly hope that I'm not being taken as saying that conditioning is a hare brained idea.  OTOH, just becasue commercial breweries do it is not necessarily a reason for me to do it.
Title: Re: Drainage time
Post by: tomsawyer on March 07, 2011, 02:27:14 PM
We recently did a tour of Boulevard Brewing in KC as part of a homebrew contest.  They do wet milling using a German mill.

I've definitely seen a difference in husk intactness with conditioning.  I don't do it because I apparently don't need it as far as runoff is concerned.  I don't recall, does conditioning also keep dust down during crushing?  That would be another advantage if it does.  I crush in my storage room and I sometimes worry about dust accumulating in there and eventually causing me issues with contamination.  I used to crush out in the garage but got lazy when I got my new mill.