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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: majorvices on February 28, 2011, 11:52:32 AM

Title: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: majorvices on February 28, 2011, 11:52:32 AM
I don't know how many of you know this but its almost impossible to get Amarillo right now and may be for the next couple of years since they are all contracted up. Same with Simcoe. I happen to love both, along with Columbus and Centennial (plenty of those available). But I confess that my creativity kinda ends about there. I need some hop suggestions. I know nothing will replace simcoe or amarillo, but I need to have something that will bring the "wow" factor. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tumarkin on February 28, 2011, 01:24:28 PM
Ain't nothing wrong with just centennials (think Two Hearted Ale!), but I get where you're coming from. Something new, different, add complexity, etc.
Citra is an interesting hop - it mixes some tropical notes in with the citrus. Sorachi Ace is a bit lemony but in conjunction with something more earthy it can work fairly well. I've read about Nelson Sauvin, a hop from New Zealand - also supposed to be very tropical fruity, but haven't had an opportunity to try it. Another one I've never used is Ahtanum - I've heard that proposed as a sub for Amarillo.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 28, 2011, 01:38:59 PM
Keith your problem is shared by a local brewery start up.  They made a few beers with Simoe, then the supply ran out.  They reformulated the recipe.

When you think about it, some of out favorite hops are relatively new, and there are not many acres in production.  Amarillo is on one farm, and their acreage is not reported in the following.  Check out Citra and Simcoe in the table.
http://www.usahops.org/userfiles/file/Statistics/2010%20NASS%20Hop%20Acreage%20Report.pdf

Homebrewers are at the end of the supply chain, and we get the leftovers.  If none is leftover, we may have problems.  All should hope for a good crop next year.  Acreage went down with the prices over the last 2 years.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: denny on February 28, 2011, 04:35:28 PM
Keith, see if you can get some "Falconer's Flight ".  It's a blend of PNW hops..

BTW, my commercial brewer friends warn about big price increases in both hops and barley coming soon.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: madscientist on February 28, 2011, 05:12:07 PM
I didn't have any trouble getting Amarillo through midwest supplies.  Then again, I ordered only a few ounces.  I'm waiting on ingredients for an IPA that I will use Centennial, Cascade and Amarillo.  Going to dry hop it with Amarillo as well.  Single-hop beers could be fun.  I had an IPA with just amarillo this past weekend.  It was on the low end of IBUs for an IPA I think, but it was delicious. 
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: bluesman on February 28, 2011, 05:12:15 PM
I presume this is for an AIPA.

I would also consider Ahtanum and Warrior. Here's a really good resource from Hop Union. You may already use this but ...

http://www.hopunion.com/hopunion-variety-databook.pdf
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: jeffy on February 28, 2011, 05:37:03 PM
I presume this is for an AIPA.

I would also consider Ahtanum and Warrior. Here's a really good resource from Hop Union. You may already use this but ...

http://www.hopunion.com/hopunion-variety-databook.pdf

I recently had some Warrior and really liked the aroma.  Really pungent.  Makes a nice all around hop, too, since it's high alpha.  I brewed an IPA with Palisades last month and liked that one, too.  Spicey and lemony to me.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: blatz on February 28, 2011, 10:16:59 PM
as much as I love Amarillo and Simcoe, perhaps this will be good for the brewing community in the sense that they are becoming almost ubiquitous in the AIPA and APA offerings.  Now brewers will be forced to be creative once again.  Seeing this thread has made me realize how much I have crutched on these two hops in almost all of my american ales over the past 2 years - I'm kinda looking forward to the change.

HD has some new ones on their site (Calypso, Rainier IIRC).

Perhaps experiment with some oldies but goodies as late hops - Chinook comes to mind. SSoS is a pretty good recipe and its EKG and Chinook IIRC. Celebration doesn't suck either.

Keith - IIRC, isn't your standard IPA Magnum, Columbus and Centennial anyways?  ;D
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: euge on February 28, 2011, 10:35:43 PM
I've been using Chinook in my PA's as a single 30 minute addition. Great flavor but harsh. As a high alpha I'll only use them for no less than 45 minutes from now on.

If you want to consider Zeus I can send you some free. I have a bunch vac-frozen and I've never liked them at all though they do well in darker beers. 
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: majorvices on February 28, 2011, 11:28:25 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I may try the Ahtumunumun or however the hell you spell it. I have a little more Amarillo left and my simcoe will run out in the next couple of months.

Euge: I don't really care for Chinook and FWIW Zeus is the same as Columbus - which I love. AKA Tomahawk.

The thing is, sure, its fun to experiment with all these hops, but I am kinda out of time to experiment before my hopping in my IPA will have to change. I may have to go back to plain old Columbus and Centennial (not that there's anything wrong with that). IMO Amarillo and especially Simcoe are impossible to sub.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: jaybeerman on March 01, 2011, 01:23:06 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I may try the Ahtumunumun or however the hell you spell it. I have a little more Amarillo left and my simcoe will run out in the next couple of months.

Euge: I don't really care for Chinook and FWIW Zeus is the same as Columbus - which I love. AKA Tomahawk.

The thing is, sure, its fun to experiment with all these hops, but I am kinda out of time to experiment before my hopping in my IPA will have to change. I may have to go back to plain old Columbus and Centennial (not that there's anything wrong with that). IMO Amarillo and especially Simcoe are impossible to sub.

This hops "crisis" is a killer for all the small brewpubs/breweries.  Sure it's an inconvienence for the homebrewer but I'm not sure ALL folks grasp what it's like for the small scale pro-brewer.  I feel for ya.  A few weeks back we talked about using crystal hops with the C's.  Can you get crystal now or is that in shortage as well?  I could see a columbus (or columbus type), centennial & crystal hopped IPA working out.  Have you tried the Apollo hops?  Good luck, j
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: pinnah on March 01, 2011, 03:23:30 AM
I feel for ya.  A few weeks back we talked about using crystal hops with the C's.  Can you get crystal now or is that in shortage as well?  I could see a columbus (or columbus type), centennial & crystal hopped IPA working out. 

That is a tough one, I to am addicted to the simarillo blend.  Perhaps Jay has a good idea with the Crystal, since you use a lot of it in other areas.

The Citra is interesting and has the wow factor, but I might steer clear of the limited supply.

I hear you can get a pretty good IPA with the Columbus/Mt Hood mix? 


Hey, you have some time, nothing wrong with the Columbus/Cent to tide you through.  Maybe stick with that and experiment with some late hopping with something else?



You might have to get some lowlife homebrewers to run some trials for you. ;)


Cheers to work.

Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tschmidlin on March 01, 2011, 07:04:09 AM
I ordered some Sonnet Goldings from hopsdirect just for fun, I want to see what they're like.  I doubt I'd use them in an IPA, but after checking my stock I have enough Amarillo and Cascades (and a little Simcoe) to last a while anyway.  I don't brew too many super hoppy beers, just 20 or so gallons a year, so I don't need much.

Anyway, I've had some nice IPA made with Sorachi Ace.  If you use pellets, Cascades, Chinook, Columbus, and Nugget are available from hopsdirect.  There are some good varieties available in whole hops too.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: majorvices on March 01, 2011, 12:44:58 PM

This hops "crisis" is a killer for all the small brewpubs/breweries.  Sure it's an inconvienence for the homebrewer but I'm not sure ALL folks grasp what it's like for the small scale pro-brewer.  I feel for ya.  A few weeks back we talked about using crystal hops with the C's.  Can you get crystal now or is that in shortage as well?  I could see a columbus (or columbus type), centennial & crystal hopped IPA working out.  Have you tried the Apollo hops?  Good luck, j

I think I can still get crystal hops. I still have several pounds left. Have never tried Apollo, either. Might give that a go.

The hops that are hard to find in bulk right now are Amarillo, Citra and Simcoe. In fact I was told that Amarillo will not be available next year either, and to get my contracts in now for 2013. I think that most of the homebrew shops have their hops have their supplies contracted so buying them by the oz probably won't be a problem for most of you guys, though I don't think I have seen Amarillo anywhere. I actually bought a couple pounds of Citra at Rebel Brewer at about 300% what I should have paid.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: Hokerer on March 01, 2011, 03:00:25 PM
Sounds like I need to get off my duff.  Got a pound of Amarillo in the freezer that's still in it's unopened packaging from Hopsdirect.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: denny on March 01, 2011, 04:36:17 PM
Keith, seriously look into the Flaconer's Flight blend.  At our club meeting last night I had a couple different beers made with them and I think you'd be really happy with them.  Contact Hop Union for a sample.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: majorvices on March 01, 2011, 09:22:57 PM
Keith, seriously look into the Flaconer's Flight blend.  At our club meeting last night I had a couple different beers made with them and I think you'd be really happy with them.  Contact Hop Union for a sample.

Thanks man! I will do that for sure!
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: jaybeerman on March 01, 2011, 09:45:18 PM
Keith, seriously look into the Flaconer's Flight blend.  At our club meeting last night I had a couple different beers made with them and I think you'd be really happy with them.  Contact Hop Union for a sample.

Denny, how would you describe the blend?  Sounds interesting [pellet blend comprised of many of the Northwest's most premier hop varieties including the highly acclaimed Citra™, Simcoe®, and Sorachi Ace along with experimental hops and numerous other NW varieties]  I'm curious if this will be a long term offering and/or will it always be the same blend.  cheers, j
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: hamiltont on March 01, 2011, 10:17:33 PM
Has anyone tried Galena for flavor and/or aroma?  I have to think it would compliment the "C" hops or Mt. Hood, just never tried it that way.  Seems it's mostly used for bittering but the beta acid is reported as 7.5-9.0%.  Cheers!!!
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: denny on March 01, 2011, 10:20:08 PM
Wow, Galena used to be a favorite, but I haven't seen it for a long time.

Jay, I have no idea about how long they'll do the blend or if it will change.  It's kinda lemony like Simcoe, I could detect some of the tropical fruit of the Citra (although not as overwhelming as straight Citra), some dankness like you get from Columbus, maybe a bit of tangerine like Amarillo.  I was really impressed.  I've got a lb. on order.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: jaybeerman on March 01, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
Jay, I have no idea about how long they'll do the blend or if it will change.  It's kinda lemony like Simcoe, I could detect some of the tropical fruit of the Citra (although not as overwhelming as straight Citra), some dankness like you get from Columbus, maybe a bit of tangerine like Amarillo.  I was really impressed.  I've got a lb. on order.

lemony tropical, tangerine dankness - sounds perfect to me, thanks
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tschmidlin on March 01, 2011, 10:44:34 PM
I was really impressed.  I've got a lb. on order.
From where?  Did you have to order 16x1 oz or can you get a pound somewhere?
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: blatz on March 02, 2011, 03:58:29 PM
I was really impressed.  I've got a lb. on order.
From where?  Did you have to order 16x1 oz or can you get a pound somewhere?

tom:

haven't seen them in full pound offerings, but you can order them here at a 1oz clip, but $20 for a pound of individually wrapped ounces isn't too terrible IMO.

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Falconers-Flight-Hops-1oz-Pellets.html

Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: denny on March 02, 2011, 04:23:23 PM
I was really impressed.  I've got a lb. on order.
From where?  Did you have to order 16x1 oz or can you get a pound somewhere?

A guy in our club has connections....;)  We ordered multiple lbs.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 02, 2011, 04:30:13 PM
You can find the Falconers Flight blend here, and can buy in an 8 oz. package for $8.95.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/11836/103828/Falconers_Flight_Pellet_Hops

Pssst - they still have Simcoe.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tschmidlin on March 02, 2011, 05:14:07 PM
I was really impressed.  I've got a lb. on order.
From where?  Did you have to order 16x1 oz or can you get a pound somewhere?

A guy in our club has connections....;)  We ordered multiple lbs.
Must be nice ;D  

If I can't get any through my connections (email sent) I guess I'll be ordering from Rebel or Morebeer.

Although morebeer says Simcoe is out of stock . . . :(

>Edit - 8 oz packages are out
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 02, 2011, 05:50:03 PM
Glad I bought 10 oz  (8+2) Simcoe from them last month.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tschmidlin on March 02, 2011, 05:58:58 PM
I'm putting my order together, and I've decided to actually get 2 oz packages instead of 8 oz.  It's worth an extra dollar to me to not have to repackage them when I get them.

I don't know if my connections will come through on the Falconer's Flight, but I'll get some for sure somehow.  I love the idea of measuring out a couple of ounces of this to dry hop instead of 1/2 oz of this and 1/2 oz of that, and then you have a bunch of half used packages.  I hate half used packages of hops.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: bluesman on March 02, 2011, 06:06:30 PM
This is good to know...I might place an order for some of The Falconers Flight. It sounds like a great blend plus some of the proceeds go to a good cause.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: blatz on March 02, 2011, 06:18:41 PM
I hate half used packages of hops.

sounds like someone needs to invest in a vacuum sealer  ;)
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tschmidlin on March 02, 2011, 06:23:46 PM
I hate half used packages of hops.

sounds like someone needs to invest in a vacuum sealer  ;)
I have one, just got it.  Maybe it will bother me less now :)
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: richardt on March 02, 2011, 06:58:13 PM
Summit is a great citrusy hop (tangerines) to consider along with Citra (tropical fruits).

I recently made a DIPA with Magnum, Summit, Simcoe, Cascade, and Citra that really had that "wow" effect from everyone.  It's possible that, without the amarillo and simcoe, the other hops could still pull off the effect you want.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: majorvices on March 04, 2011, 02:21:48 AM
Thanks, Summit is another hops I have not tried. On the list now.

Denny, I just ordered 11 lbs of Falconer's Flight to try. Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: BrewingRover on March 04, 2011, 02:28:58 AM
Thanks, Summit is another hops I have not tried. On the list now.

Denny, I just ordered 11 lbs of Falconer's Flight to try. Thanks for the advice.
I had it in a black IPA/hoppy porter at a brewpub a couple of weeks ago -- apparently the brewer couldn't make up his mind as to what he'd made ;)
Great aroma that didn't quite match the beer. Lots of pine and citrus. I may have to track some down.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: gordonstrong on March 04, 2011, 02:34:49 AM
Can you get Galaxy?  It's very popular in Australia, but I don't know if it's imported.  Unique passionfruit aroma and flavor.

+1 on Summit.  Good choice.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: bluesman on March 04, 2011, 02:51:08 AM
Can you get Galaxy?  It's very popular in Australia, but I don't know if it's imported.  Unique passionfruit aroma and flavor.

+1 on Summit.  Good choice.

Gordon...Gordon...Gordon...where have you been?

Glad you're back though.

I've heard Galaxy is hard to get here in the USA  :-\  YMMV

Oh and congrats on the new book!
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: gordonstrong on March 04, 2011, 04:45:46 AM
Got behind on the forum over the holidays when we had guests for 2 weeks and then switched offices where they block access to the forum.  Got behind at stuff at home while working on the book, so I basically couldn't read it during the day or night.  You miss a few days, and it all really piles up.  Tom bugged me about getting back, so I sucked it up.

Where's that version for the iphone, anyway?  That would have solved all my problems.  Well, all except the honey-do problems...
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: tschmidlin on March 04, 2011, 04:48:41 AM
Tom bugged me about getting back, so I sucked it up.
;D Glad you're back.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: euge on March 04, 2011, 08:14:33 AM
Tom bugged me about getting back, so I sucked it up.
;D Glad you're back.

And I thought he'd abandoned us. :( LIfe (work) gets in the way. Good to see you posting Gordon. You'll take it up a notch or two.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: bluesman on March 04, 2011, 12:14:42 PM
Tom bugged me about getting back, so I sucked it up.
;D Glad you're back.

I was getting ready to start bugging him too...glad you did Tom...Thanks.  :)

Anyway...what were we talking about  :-\ Oh yeah...hops for an IPA.

I would like to try some Galaxy in an APA or IPA...never had them before.
Title: Re: IPA - need hops suggestion
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 04, 2011, 12:56:12 PM
Keith, try some of the New Zeeland hop varieties if you can find them in the quantities you need.  You might buy an ounce of several varieties and evaluate before you invest in a brewpub batch.  They won't be Simcoe, but they are unique.

For some reason I think they would work really well.  

Edit - good to see Gordon back on the board.   Many here in Michigan are excited that he is judging and then giving a talk at the WEB homebrew competition in Frankenmuth this weekend.  Unfortunately, life got in the way for us to go this weekend.

Have a good time up there Gordon!