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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: jimrod on March 07, 2011, 07:16:45 AM

Title: beer gas
Post by: jimrod on March 07, 2011, 07:16:45 AM
I've tried to have serious conversations on defferent forums about beer gas but everyone jokes and no one has answers. My beers have been giving everyone who drinks them bad beer farts. I don't know if it is something I'm doing wrong or do I need to modify my recipes. 
 
I did make 10 gals of Vienna  2 months ago, we are drinking it now and it's gassy. On Saturday I made the same recipe and cut the crystal from 4lbs to 2lbs to try to get the dextrin down. I even lowered my mash temp to 150 from 158 to get more fermentable sugars. All of these beers are kegged.
 
Should I be waiting longer? Some of this gassy beer is 10 weeks from grain, that should be long enough.
Should I try filtering?  Should I try pasteurization? Freezing? Microwave?
Could this be a procedure problem? Am I stressing the yeast some way to cause this condition.
 
It seems to happen with all yeasts. I use WLP001-2-5-7 and US04-5
My recipes are pretty standard.
 
No joke, this is a real problem.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: tschmidlin on March 07, 2011, 08:22:44 AM
Post some recipes, stats (OG, FG, etc), and sample procedures for us to take a look at.  Are there any homebrewers in your area with similar problems?

As a side note, 2 lbs of crystal per 5 gallons of Vienna is a lot?  Even 1 lb is too much for the style I think.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: dbeechum on March 07, 2011, 09:14:13 AM
In all honesty, the primary culprit is going to be the yeasts. Not anything special that they're producing, just their sheer presence. If you filtered your beer, I'd bet the problem would reduce.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: oscarvan on March 07, 2011, 09:24:05 AM
In all honesty, the primary culprit is going to be the yeasts. Not anything special that they're producing, just their sheer presence. If you filtered your beer, I'd bet the problem would reduce.

No, not joking here.

Would the gas produced then not be mostly CO2 and not Methane? IOW all noise no bouquet? This is, in fact the way I am experiencing it when I tap a green beer, and frankly, I don't see the problem..... ;D
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: tschmidlin on March 07, 2011, 09:39:09 AM
It could also be that the beer has more soluble fiber than they are used to.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: bluesman on March 07, 2011, 12:25:25 PM
This is mostly because beer contains alot of complex sugars, and when consumed in a large amount, it will pass into the large intestine without being absorbed by the stomach. The bacteria in the large intestine digests it, producing the gases CO2 and methane which then...well you know what.

So to help mitigate this...make lighter beers with less complex sugars. Mash low.

Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: gordonstrong on March 07, 2011, 02:26:45 PM
I'm with Drew.  Look at the yeast first.  Try fining or filtering the kegs.

Those other tips can be checked out once you rule out the most likely problem.

Drink dregs of lambic sometime if you want to test this hypothesis.  I recommend you buy some digestive probiotic dietary supplements in advance, so you can help reset the good bacteria.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: jimrod on March 07, 2011, 03:33:29 PM
Yes this is methane straight from the intestine, not hot air. The interesting thing is that everyone is effected and I don't want to offer beeno to everyone who tries my beer. Does anyone else have this problem?

Weather the beers are light or dark doesn't matter. The recipes are pretty generic with OG in the 1.050-1.065 range. FG in the 1.080-1.011 range. I've tried filtering with a 2 stage sediment filter (5 micron and then 1 micron) and this does seem to help. No one else is complaining about this problem out loud. I'm think I might be doing something wrong.

Is there a way to kill the yeast before serving?
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: denny on March 07, 2011, 04:28:27 PM
Is there a way to kill the yeast before serving?

This raises an interesting question....is gas caused merely by the presence of yeast cells, or does the yeast have to be live and functioning in order to cause it?  I guess I've always assumed it was just the presence of cells, live or dead.  But I know so little about physiology that it's just a WAG.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: Hokerer on March 07, 2011, 05:57:53 PM
Yes this is methane straight from the intestine, not hot air. The interesting thing is that everyone is effected and I don't want to offer beeno to everyone who tries my beer. Does anyone else have this problem?

I only had the problem when I first started drinking homebrew - and even then only when drinking a fair amount.  I'd always heard that the gas was due to the presence of yeast in homebrew that's not there in most filtered commercial brews.  The gas seems to go away, though, once you've been drinking it for a while.  I guess your system just gets used to it.  That would also explain why the folks you're offering it to would be affected as their systems probably aren't acclimated to yeasty brew either.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: Hokerer on March 07, 2011, 05:59:35 PM
Is there a way to kill the yeast before serving?

This raises an interesting question....is gas caused merely by the presence of yeast cells, or does the yeast have to be live and functioning in order to cause it?  I guess I've always assumed it was just the presence of cells, live or dead.  But I know so little about physiology that it's just a WAG.

Wouldn't you think that no yeast cells would be able to survive your stomach acids?  Since the gas is created further along in the "system" than the stomach, I wouldn't think any of them would still be alive at that point.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: denny on March 07, 2011, 06:44:00 PM
Good point.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: euge on March 07, 2011, 06:44:34 PM
Is there a way to kill the yeast before serving?

This raises an interesting question....is gas caused merely by the presence of yeast cells, or does the yeast have to be live and functioning in order to cause it?  I guess I've always assumed it was just the presence of cells, live or dead.  But I know so little about physiology that it's just a WAG.

Wouldn't you think that no yeast cells would be able to survive your stomach acids?  Since the gas is created further along in the "system" than the stomach, I wouldn't think any of them would still be alive at that point.

Organisms can pass through the stomach and survive. Whether they can survive the duodenum, jejunum or ilium is another matter. I attribute "gas" to the fermentation of complex carbohydrates that pass into the colon where the native flora attempt to digest the sugars. Yeast has more of a laxative effect IME.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: denny on March 07, 2011, 07:28:34 PM
Organisms can pass through the stomach and survive. Whether they can survive the duodenum, jejunum or ilium is another matter. I attribute "gas" to the fermentation of complex carbohydrates that pass into the colon where the native flora attempt to digest the sugars. Yeast has more of a laxative effect IME.

In which case Jim would seem to be on the right track in reducing those by lowering mash temps and crystal.  Wonder why he's not seeing any changes?  And the odd thing is that it seems to affect other people he gives his beer to, not just him.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: johnf on March 07, 2011, 09:23:54 PM
I would expect yeast to survive the stomach. Acid washing is done for a couple of hours at pH 2.2 and that is about the pH of the stomach.

As for long chained carbohydrates, I think that is a red herring. Eating a bowl of barley should give you orders of magnitude more gas than eating the product of barley that has been malted and mashed which causes lots of reduction is long chained carbohydrates.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: aubeertine31 on March 08, 2011, 12:22:55 AM
Not sure if it could be something this simple, but I remember reading from Palmer's book, he mentions just taking care to not disturb the yeast layer on the bottom when pouring and gives a story about a guy pouring him a homebrew and sloshing around the bottle to get it all out (yeast). I always try to pour my home brews carefully out of my bottles and try to leave a little bit of beer on the bottom to not disturb the yeast layer and don't usually have an issue, ya know, besides the usual. Not sure if this is the issue, but just a suggestion.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: aubeertine31 on March 08, 2011, 12:24:51 AM
oops, disregard previous post, I didn't see that you wrote that all of your beers were kegged. Like I said, I knew it wasn't that simple. BUT if you did bottle, I'm sure what I said may have been relevant haha
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: jimrod on March 08, 2011, 03:03:49 PM
Am I the only one who has this problem?..................I would think this is a universal problem or I am doing something wrong.........
I do think it is the yeast because filtering does help............I am surprised no one else has this problem.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: maxieboy on March 08, 2011, 04:30:24 PM
Am I the only one who has this problem?..................I would think this is a universal problem or I am doing something wrong.........
I do think it is the yeast because filtering does help............I am surprised no one else has this problem.

Could be that everyone here is in PRIME drinking shape... :D
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 04:33:55 PM
Am I the only one who has this problem?..................I would think this is a universal problem or I am doing something wrong.........
I do think it is the yeast because filtering does help............I am surprised no one else has this problem.

I used to have this problem to a distressing extent.  But it seemed to vanish and I don't know why.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: Tim McManus on March 08, 2011, 05:11:21 PM
Eat a cup of yogurt a day.  It will help out the "good" bacteria in your digestive track.

I make these two beers (IPA and Black Ale) with a huge amount of Cascade hops.  They give me rank beer farts.  But I'm not going to stop drinking two of my favorite recipes because I can clear a room with my rump.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: tschmidlin on March 08, 2011, 06:30:18 PM
I do think it is the yeast because filtering does help
I doubt it's the yeast alone, if that were the case then running it through the 1 micron filter would eliminate the problem completely, not just help.  More likely you are filtering out a portion of something else that is causing the problem.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: morticaixavier on March 08, 2011, 07:05:29 PM
Eat a cup of yogurt a day.  It will help out the "good" bacteria in your digestive track.

I make these two beers (IPA and Black Ale) with a huge amount of Cascade hops.  They give me rank beer farts.  But I'm not going to stop drinking two of my favorite recipes because I can clear a room with my rump.

The 'good' bateria are part of the 'problem' it is the bugs in your intestines that are munching on sugars that your body can do nothing with causing the gas. I suspect I don't notice the problem cause as a vegetarian I have so much gas anyway who's gonna know the difference. I am not a chemist so I don't know how big various sugars are but I assume they are less than 1 micron. perhaps it is an unconverted starch issue.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: gsandel on March 09, 2011, 03:31:20 AM
I too experience this, and after a night on a Belgian bender.....whoa!  I know that the yeast is working overtime with the bacteria in my intenstines....I can almost feel it.  I figure it is just industrial strength digestion.

Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: jimrod on March 09, 2011, 07:39:03 AM
This last batch of beer finished at 1.010. Thats a little sweet, maybe fermentation picks up after it hits my intestine.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: oscarvan on March 09, 2011, 02:02:41 PM
This thread is a gas!
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: denny on March 09, 2011, 05:01:09 PM
This last batch of beer finished at 1.010. Thats a little sweet, maybe fermentation picks up after it hits my intestine.

What kind of beer, Jim?  1.010 doesn't seem like that high of a FG.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: weazletoe on March 10, 2011, 05:40:53 AM
Off / on topic.....I believe I've said it here before, hoppy beers make me belch like sometihng ungodly. I mean a deep belch from the tips of my toes. It's unreal. Only hoppy beer have such an extreme effect on me.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: theoman on March 10, 2011, 08:52:02 AM
My first guess would also be the yeast.Other than that, it could be your carbonation levels. Or, maybe your beer is so good or so bad that people are drinking it really fast and swallowing large volumes of air while drinking.

I have noticed it worse with some beers, but really, everything makes me fart. My doctor said I'm probably swallowing too much air when I eat and drink.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: euge on March 10, 2011, 09:23:13 AM
My first guess would also be the yeast.Other than that, it could be your carbonation levels. Or, maybe your beer is so good or so bad that people are drinking it really fast and swallowing large volumes of air while drinking.

I have noticed it worse with some beers, but really, everything makes me fart. My doctor said I'm probably swallowing too much air when I eat and drink.

Well here's one of the questions I asked myself: how carbonated is this stuff? I belch but the gas can go the other way too. If one is swilling it down this gassy sh!t can happen. Maybe the beer is so good that it's getting drunk up fast...
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: brewsumore on March 11, 2011, 04:31:07 AM
At the bottom of page 240 of "How to Brew", in his discussion on the two unfermentables in beer that contribute to body, namely unfermentable sugars and proteins, Palmer mentions that dextrins (carbohydrates that are long chain sugars) are suspected by some brewers to be the leading cause of beer farts.


It makes sense to me that mashing lower to create a more fermentable wort could solve the problem, or is worth trying, so that the beer's sugars are broken down in your stomach rather than in your intestines. 
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: bluesman on March 11, 2011, 04:34:43 AM
At the bottom of page 240 of "How to Brew", in his discussion on the two unfermentables in beer that contribute to body, namely unfermentable sugars and proteins, Palmer mentions that dextrins (carbohydrates that are long chain sugars) are suspected by some brewers to be the leading cause of beer farts.
It makes sense to me that mashing lower to create a more fermentable wort could solve the problem, or is worth trying, so that the beer's sugars are broken down in your stomach rather than in your intestines. 

This is what I understand to be the leading cause of beer gas.

We should have a contest.  ;D
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: jeffy on March 11, 2011, 12:02:14 PM
At the bottom of page 240 of "How to Brew", in his discussion on the two unfermentables in beer that contribute to body, namely unfermentable sugars and proteins, Palmer mentions that dextrins (carbohydrates that are long chain sugars) are suspected by some brewers to be the leading cause of beer farts.
It makes sense to me that mashing lower to create a more fermentable wort could solve the problem, or is worth trying, so that the beer's sugars are broken down in your stomach rather than in your intestines. 

This is what I understand to be the leading cause of beer gas.

We should have a contest.  ;D


You just made me imagine a conference room full of people testing that theory at the NHC in San Diego.
Not a pleasant thought.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: Hokerer on March 11, 2011, 02:25:03 PM
You just made me imagine a conference room full of people testing that theory at the NHC in San Diego.
Not a pleasant thought.

Maybe... then again, it might be entertaining enough to make the trip worthwhile
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: gordonstrong on March 11, 2011, 02:46:23 PM
Quote
You just made me imagine a conference room full of people testing that theory at the NHC in San Diego.

Easy to imagine. I call it "club night."
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: oscarvan on March 11, 2011, 04:49:05 PM
Can the starches in beans be converted......?
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: brewsumore on March 11, 2011, 04:54:13 PM
Can the starches in beans be converted......?

Are you suggesting that the OP put Beano in his wort?  :o
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: dbeechum on March 11, 2011, 05:35:06 PM
Easy to imagine. I call it "club night."

Thank god we'll have a 41k sq. ft room to have club night in this year - that should be enough for elbow and gas room!
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: bluesman on March 11, 2011, 06:31:58 PM
Easy to imagine. I call it "club night."

Thank god we'll have a 41k sq. ft room to have club night in this year - that should be enough for elbow and gas room!

Hey Drew...do they have a fume hood installed in the banquet room. Hoping so.  ;D
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: morticaixavier on March 11, 2011, 09:21:42 PM
Can the starches in beans be converted......?

Are you suggesting that the OP put Beano in his wort?  :o

It has been done. People use Beano to make 'light' beer. I have used it to try to dry out an extract RIS that was nasty sweet and ended up with bottle bombs (Well one bottle bomb).

Oscar, Yes the starches in beans can be converted. either via beano if you are going to eat them. or, if one was so inclined, via diastatic malt in a mash. (you would have to cook them first). Bean beer. mmmm.
Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: brewsumore on March 11, 2011, 10:36:53 PM
I actually am aware that people use Beano (I don't recommend it), and I can definitely relate to what happened to you.  One batch some years ago when I was pretty new to all-grain brewing, I was using a small-face dial thermometer and must have misplaced my reading glasses -- I mis-read the thermometer, and mashed way too hot.  With all the partially converted sugars in that wort, of course it just wouldn't ferment very low at all, so I added amylase enzyme powder straight from the jar.  I bottled when it got to around 1.002, but it still continued to drop in the bottle and I ended up with gusher-infected jet fuel and dumped 100 bottles, luckily before any exploded.  Experiences like that teach you to master the details!


Can the starches in beans be converted......?

Are you suggesting that the OP put Beano in his wort?  :o

It has been done. People use Beano to make 'light' beer. I have used it to try to dry out an extract RIS that was nasty sweet and ended up with bottle bombs (Well one bottle bomb).

Oscar, Yes the starches in beans can be converted. either via beano if you are going to eat them. or, if one was so inclined, via diastatic malt in a mash. (you would have to cook them first). Bean beer. mmmm.

Title: Re: beer gas
Post by: morticaixavier on March 12, 2011, 06:20:46 AM
aside from the one bottle that popped that RIS turned out okay. It was a little overwhelming but...