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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: phillamb168 on March 08, 2011, 04:19:33 PM

Title: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: phillamb168 on March 08, 2011, 04:19:33 PM
I recently got another used corny keg, but while I was stripping it down to clean it, I noticed that for both the gas and beer ball lock assemblies, the poppits are wayyy stuck in there.

(http://baderbrewing.com/graphics/00000004/Valve%20Poppit.JPG)

The little feet there seem to be hung up or something on what seems to be a bit of a lip on the solid steel piece (I don't have pics yet...)

Has anybody ever seen this before? I asked Brouwland to send a replacement, and they sent me a couple assemblies with the same "defect." So maybe it's just something I don't know how to do? All the kegs I've ever owned, the poppit came out super easy.

Also, with this same keg, the rubber o-rings that normally go on to the dip and CO2 tubes weren't the black rubber pieces I was used to. Rather, they were some kinda weird blue stuff that was REALLY old and cracking in places. Of course both of the leaked, so I wrapped 'em up with plumbers tape and it seems to be holding. Is plumber's tape bad? I dunno where to get new o-rings.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 04:25:02 PM
I assume you mean the poppets are stuck in the posts?  Pretty common.  Remove the post from the keg and put it on the counter or some other flat surface.  Using a nail, or some other object like that, simply press on the poppet from the top and it should come right out.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: phillamb168 on March 08, 2011, 04:30:01 PM
I assume you mean the poppets are stuck in the posts?  Pretty common.  Remove the post from the keg and put it on the counter or some other flat surface.  Using a nail, or some other object like that, simply press on the poppet from the top and it should come right out.

I tried that, but all it did was depress the spring. I didn't want to force it too much, but if you think I should use more power I will try that when I get home.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: bluesman on March 08, 2011, 04:34:09 PM
You have to apply enough force to pop it out. It may seem to be excessive but it is the only way to remove them. A 1/8" dowel pin and a hammer are the ideal tools used to remove poppits. You should only have to tap it very lightly with the hammer and it will pop out.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 04:37:03 PM
I assume you mean the poppets are stuck in the posts?  Pretty common.  Remove the post from the keg and put it on the counter or some other flat surface.  Using a nail, or some other object like that, simply press on the poppet from the top and it should come right out.

I tried that, but all it did was depress the spring. I didn't want to force it too much, but if you think I should use more power I will try that when I get home.

I was scared the first time I tried it, too! 
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: maxieboy on March 08, 2011, 04:51:10 PM
Don't know about shipping cost to France but here's some info(prices approx 2 yrs old):

 McMaster Carr part numbers for the o-rings that fit the ball-lock kegs:

Dip Tube O-Rings
5/16" ID x 1/2"OD x 3/32" width
9452K172 BunaN #109
Pkg 100/$1.89 (yes, these are the same ones the shops sell for fifty cents EACH.)

Post O-Rings
7/16" ID x 5/8" OD x 3/32" width
9452K23 BunaN #111
Pkg 100/$2.15

Lid O-Rings
3 1/2" ID x 4" OD x 1/4" width
9452K218 BunaN #417
Pkg 10/$12.50

Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 08, 2011, 05:21:34 PM
Current prices are within pennies. I ordered a batch yesterday.

These prices/part #s are for the regular round o-rings.   You can also get them with a square profile (most expensive) and x-type profile (mid-price). 

On the kegs I'm stripping down right now, the dip-tube o-rings appear to have been of the square profile (edges, not the shape of the ring).  I don't think the profile matters significantly, but others may disagree.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: johnf on March 08, 2011, 06:35:41 PM
Current prices are within pennies. I ordered a batch yesterday.

These prices/part #s are for the regular round o-rings.   You can also get them with a square profile (most expensive) and x-type profile (mid-price). 

On the kegs I'm stripping down right now, the dip-tube o-rings appear to have been of the square profile (edges, not the shape of the ring).  I don't think the profile matters significantly, but others may disagree.

For the dip tube o-rings the quad/double seal profile is vastly superior to the others, in my experience.

I use round profile silicone for the others. I haven't used keg lube once since I switched to these o-rings.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 08, 2011, 07:03:41 PM
It's still under $5 for the quad profile, so we're not talking about big money here.

You can select the profile at McMaster Carr under O-rings.  The sizing from the previous posting remains what you want, and the o-ring numbers also remain the same (109 for dip tubes).
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: phillamb168 on March 08, 2011, 07:09:33 PM
I assume you mean the poppets are stuck in the posts?  Pretty common.  Remove the post from the keg and put it on the counter or some other flat surface.  Using a nail, or some other object like that, simply press on the poppet from the top and it should come right out.

I tried that, but all it did was depress the spring. I didn't want to force it too much, but if you think I should use more power I will try that when I get home.

I was scared the first time I tried it, too! 

Hrm - here's what I get when I hit it with a hammer:

(http://philliplamb.com/poppit1.jpg)

It's out, right? Well...

(http://philliplamb.com/poppit2.jpg)

Two legs are bent way outta shape and the other one is scrunched up. Totally borked, good thing I already told them they were broken (and they already sent me another set).

So now what? This should give you an idea of just how stuck in there they are. I've never seen this before.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: phillamb168 on March 08, 2011, 07:10:41 PM
It should also be noted that, on closer inspection, these poppits are unlike anything I've seen before.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 07:13:01 PM
It should also be noted that, on closer inspection, these poppits are unlike anything I've seen before.

Interesting...as far as I can tell, they look like the poppets in several of my kegs.  You can straighten out the legs with needle nose pliers...at least I've been able to do that.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: phillamb168 on March 08, 2011, 07:14:56 PM
It should also be noted that, on closer inspection, these poppits are unlike anything I've seen before.

Interesting...as far as I can tell, they look like the poppets in several of my kegs.  You can straighten out the legs with needle nose pliers...at least I've been able to do that.

Ya, but I've tried and they just aren't coming out. Could they somehow be welded in there?
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 07:15:35 PM
Ya, but I've tried and they just aren't coming out. Could they somehow be welded in there?

Well, I can't say they're not, but I've never seen that be the case.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 08, 2011, 07:16:19 PM
Can you grab it from the inside with a needle nose pliers?

It looks like you're gonna need a new poppet anyway, so I'd bend the legs on it to get it out.

Perhaps the PO forced in the wrong style of poppet for the keg?

Or perhaps it's the wrong post for the keg, since it looks like the poppet was pushed too far in.  
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: bluesman on March 08, 2011, 07:42:00 PM
It looks like you have the style poppet where the three feet of the poppet rest on a shoulder inside the post. This is an uncommon style but does still exist. The only way to remove that style is to pry each leg inwards slightly to just clear the shoulder and then pop it out. I completely forgot about that style poppet.

This style poppet is a PITA to remove. You can try to salvage it at this point but you may have to replace it if it is damaged beyond repair.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: richardt on March 08, 2011, 07:42:47 PM
Hook around one of the arms on the poppit and pull.  You might have to nudge it up, down, left, and right to walk the arms past the little ridges within the post.  They tend to get caught up on those sometimes.  Failing that, use the needle nose pliers and grab the flared end of the poppit post you see in the picture and give that a nudge towards center and then pull.  You may need to bend one of the arms back towards the central poppit post to create the clearance you need.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: tschmidlin on March 08, 2011, 07:43:48 PM
I use a screwdriver and a rubber mallet to bang them out when they are like that.  You might need to leave some space under it for the poppet to come out, a hole in a board or something.  The needle nose pliers might work too.  I've never tried to bend the legs back, I always just replace them.  I figure if it got stuck once, it's worth it to get rid of it.

<edit> fixed typos that bluesman so thoughtfully captured below ;D
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: bluesman on March 08, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
I use a screwdriver and a rubber mallet to bang them out when they are like that.  You might need to leave some space under it for the poppet to come out, a whole in a board or something.  The nedle nose pliers might work too.  I've never tried to bend the legs back, I always just replace them.  I figure if it got stuck once, it's worth it to get rid of it.

+1

It will only give you more trouble in the future.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: Slowbrew on March 08, 2011, 10:01:01 PM
I have some of those type.  A medium sized flat blade screw driver can be used to pry/release them from the bottom.  I've never driven the poppets out. 

I have the stitches to prove I get in trouble when I try the "manly" process (on just about anything) so I rely on finesse.  Somewhere, someone made a living doing this stuff so there must be a reasonable easy way to get it done.   ;)

Paul
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: ajk on March 09, 2011, 01:00:33 AM
I have some of those type.  A medium sized flat blade screw driver can be used to pry/release them from the bottom.  I've never driven the poppets out. 

Two of my kegs are manufactured by Firestone, and they have poppets/posts that behave this way.  From the underside of the post, I insert the flat end of the screwdriver between two legs of the poppet, then twist while curing Firestone aloud (though I'm not sure that last bit helps).  It takes a couple of tries.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: oscarvan on March 09, 2011, 02:32:11 AM
Perhaps the PO forced in the wrong style of poppet for the keg?

Or perhaps it's the wrong post for the keg, since it looks like the poppet was pushed too far in.  

It happens. Just grab it and yank it out, get some new ones. Do I need to fly them over? How far are you from Paris?
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: phillamb168 on March 09, 2011, 07:38:41 AM
Perhaps the PO forced in the wrong style of poppet for the keg?

Or perhaps it's the wrong post for the keg, since it looks like the poppet was pushed too far in.  

It happens. Just grab it and yank it out, get some new ones. Do I need to fly them over? How far are you from Paris?

I'm under the takeoff pattern for Orly, so if you wanna just roll down the window and drop 'em out that'll work.

I'm glad that other people have heard of these things before. I will try ajk's method of cursing Firestone while I pry them out. As these things are pretty light, I think I can order them from kegworks.com (korey @ kegworks is a pleasure to work with) for not too much moneys.

I'm just a little peeved that Brouwland of all places doesn't replace these things. But I guess that's what you get for ordering used kegs instead of new ones. Meh.

Thanks a bunch everybody. I will try the needlenose pliers route just to try to get 'em out.
Title: Re: Poppit no pop, o-ring no seal?
Post by: oscarvan on March 09, 2011, 01:57:57 PM
I'm under the takeoff pattern for Orly, so if you wanna just roll down the window and drop 'em out that'll work.

Bummer, we go to CDG.