Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 09:04:36 PM

Title: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 09:04:36 PM
Hi. I've been brewing kits for the past year, in an attempt to get the process down before I move on to more technical stuff.

I've been using Brewers Best kits.

I'm getting ready to throw together a Belgian Tripel.

I've read people lauding the benefits of wyeast smack packs, so when I bought the kit, I asked the guy at the brew store which wyeast I would need to substitute for the standard dry yeast packet in the kit. He pulls out some chart, looks up Belgian Tripel and says that 3944 Belgian Wit is what I need.

So, I smack the pack and it's starting to inflate like they say it will, and while I'm waiting, I start browsing the internet looking at double pitches etc. Out of the blue I stumble on a Q&A at wyeast .com talking about high gravity beer and what's supposed to happen to the amount of yeast pitched.

here's what I found:

Quote
Do you need more yeast for high gravity fermentations?

Yes, anytime you are pitching yeast into a harsh environment (high gravity, low temp) you need to add additional yeast.  A rough rule of thumb is to double pitch rates above 1.065 and triple pitch rates above 1.085. Or, more technically, a million cells per milliliter are needed for a 20degree plato (1.080 specifice gravity) beer, or 3 Activator packages for a 5 gallon batch.  It is also important to remember tht it is more difficult to get oxygen into the solution in a high gravity wort.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs.cfm?website=1#r22
 


The OG on the kit is 1.083-1.086, which puts me right into the ball park this thing is talking about.

However, it seems that only one dry pack of yeast is needed, and comes with the kit.

What do I do now? I'm gonna be supper cheesed off if I've wasted time, money and excitement on this wyeast pack.

Here's the recipe for the Tripel

http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1044_Belgian_Tripel.pdf

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: dbeechum on March 08, 2011, 09:12:05 PM
With all the liquid yeasts, it's a good idea to make a starter. It's pretty straight forward and it does take a little more time and pre-planning.

Here's an article I wrote a long time ago about it: http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/starter-made-easy-pressure-cooking-your-starter-wort-ahead-time#nopressurecooker

Now having said that, you can just use the pack, it's less than ideal and may cause you problems down the line, but its only beer.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 09:14:35 PM
Only beer, he says..... lol

what if I were to use the wyeast and the yeast from the kit?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: morticaixavier on March 08, 2011, 09:20:41 PM
Only beer, he says..... lol

what if I were to use the wyeast and the yeast from the kit?

It would affect the final yeast characters. but as both are belgian yeasts i assume it probabaly wouldn't be a big deal. Starters are really easy though. The 'dangers' you face with a small pitch are fuesels and unwanted esters etc. but I have pitched some fairfly big beers with a single smack pack and it's not that bad. the ferm temp is more important in my opinion.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: dbeechum on March 08, 2011, 09:24:27 PM
Only beer, he says..... lol

Hey it took years of brewing to reach this level of nonchalance!
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: tschmidlin on March 08, 2011, 09:27:44 PM
I agree with above, either make a starter for the liquid yeast or pitch both the liquid and dry.

And it should be pointed out, that the single pack of dry yeast might not have been ideal for that gravity of wort anyway.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 09:36:37 PM
well, the dry yeast from the kit is made by Danstar and is called Nottingham. Doesn't sound very Belgian to me. I'm just worrid about an exploding airlock or something like that.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: a10t2 on March 08, 2011, 09:41:59 PM
I have to say, those are both... unusual (being charitable here) choices for a tripel. If you have the time, I'd use just the 3944 and make a big ol' starter - about 3 L, no airlock, and shake it up frequently. If that isn't an option, get a pack of T58 dry yeast and add that, rehydrated, in addition to the 3944. Or if you want to go for broke you could just pick up three smack packs of 3787. Bottom line is, for a big beer, you need a lot of yeast.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 09:49:38 PM
I have to say, those are both... unusual (being charitable here) choices for a tripel. If you have the time, I'd use just the 3944 and make a big ol' starter - about 3 L, no airlock, and shake it up frequently. If that isn't an option, get a pack of T58 dry yeast and add that, rehydrated, in addition to the 3944. Or if you want to go for broke you could just pick up three smack packs of 3787. Bottom line is, for a big beer, you need a lot of yeast.

Words of wisdom, all the way through....
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 09:54:19 PM
First off, thanks so much for all the feed back.

As I said earlier, I've already smacked the pack, and it's inflated. I also live about an hour away from the nearest homebrew store.

So my real world options are

A) Use the smack pack
B) Use the smack pack and dry yeast that came from the kit
C) Use the dry yeast that came from the kit as it's called for in the instructions.

Given those choices, what in your opinions would you do?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: tschmidlin on March 08, 2011, 09:58:00 PM
A or B, not C.  When do you plan to brew?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 09:59:04 PM
*Chuckle*

Right now???  ::)

If choosing between A or B?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: denny on March 08, 2011, 10:01:52 PM
B, and you have to promise you'll never do it again!  ;)
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 10:05:09 PM
Scott's Honour.... errr I mean Scout's Honour.

Lemme ask this, is this thing going to blow up? will a normal airlock work, or do I need to jimmy righ a blow off?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: Slowbrew on March 08, 2011, 10:12:46 PM
With a triple it's a good bet you should use a blow off tube for the first few days.  Better safe than mopping the ceiling.

Paul
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 10:37:02 PM
Gotcha, will have to see what I can rig up
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: a10t2 on March 08, 2011, 10:44:09 PM
If you don't want to use a blowoff tube, you can just loosely cover the fermenter with foil/paper towel/whatever if it's a carboy or leave the lid loose if it's a bucket.

Also, I just looked at the recipe, and I would absolutely, 100%, no doubt in my mind, leave out the maltodextrin - even replace it with sugar if you want. In a tripel, that's just bizarre.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 10:49:50 PM
LOL.....ok

what kind of sugar?
and how much, the same amount?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: oscarvan on March 08, 2011, 11:05:18 PM
B, and you have to promise you'll never do it again!  ;)

Unless it tastes really good and then it becomes your secret recipe.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: a10t2 on March 08, 2011, 11:18:59 PM
what kind of sugar?
and how much, the same amount?

Table sugar or corn sugar, whatever you have around will work. Using the same amount would keep the OG the same, but you're talking about a difference of around 0.004 SG, so it isn't critical.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 11:19:52 PM
What if I killed the maltodextrin and didn't use the dry yeast?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: tschmidlin on March 08, 2011, 11:37:12 PM
What if I killed the maltodextrin and didn't use the dry yeast?
It's not going to change the gravity that much, I still think you're better off using the dry packet with the liquid yeast.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: whitey on March 08, 2011, 11:38:33 PM
I'm nervous.....can you tell?
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: tschmidlin on March 08, 2011, 11:41:40 PM
Yeah ;D

In case you didn't know, the first letter in RDWHAHB stands for RELAX.

It will be fine.
Title: Re: Noob Question
Post by: uintafly on March 09, 2011, 02:10:55 PM
With a triple it's a good bet you should use a blow off tube for the first few days.  Better safe than mopping the ceiling.

Paul

I strongly second this.  Though scrubbing hardened wort off your walls and ceilings is a good "life experience".