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General Category => Kegging and Bottling => Topic started by: Tony H. on March 09, 2011, 09:14:19 PM

Title: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Tony H. on March 09, 2011, 09:14:19 PM
Hey guys,
   I did some cursory searching on this topic and didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

Issue: I bought 4 re-conditioned kegs.  Out of those 4, one had issues with obtaining a proper seal.  I narrowed it down to the mouth of the keg by trying several lids (lubed and unlubed) and got the same results each time in the same location.


Outside of slowing hammering the area in question, is there a more accurate way to correct the problem with the leak?
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: hamiltont on March 09, 2011, 09:15:58 PM
Outside of slowing hammering the area in question, is there a more accurate way to correct the problem with the leak?
Call the vendor & ask for a replacement.  Cheers!!!
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Tony H. on March 09, 2011, 09:22:27 PM
Sorry, should have included that.  The vendor has been nothing short of outstanding.  They are sending a replacement and only asking for the bolts and diptube back from the damaged keg.

I was hoping to salvage the keg itself and just purchase the hardware for it at my convenience.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: kerneldustjacket on March 09, 2011, 09:52:08 PM
These guys claim this o-ring will help with sealing older kegs.
May be worth trying.

http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=21412&cat=967&from_page= (http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=21412&cat=967&from_page=)

Also, Williams Brewing has a similar product. Read the descriptions for both; they use nearly the same information, but Kegworks is cheaper. (Of course shipping may be different for both, so price may equal out in the end; just do your due-diligence when shopping)

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-LID-SEALING-O-RING-P58C78.aspx (http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-LID-SEALING-O-RING-P58C78.aspx)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: weithman5 on March 09, 2011, 10:02:25 PM
you bent your mouth on what? ;D
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: kerneldustjacket on March 09, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
you bent your mouth on what? ;D

weithman, you're on to something there.
Just add a handle and he's got a five-gallon stainless stein! Sweet!
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 09, 2011, 10:32:22 PM
I've heard of using pennies as shims under the feet of the lid to force a tighter seal.

Never tried it, but it might work for you.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tubercle on March 09, 2011, 10:47:48 PM
It would make a great grain storage container to keep the bugs out.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tallcall on March 10, 2011, 12:13:31 AM
Might try an adjustable wrench to gently bend it.  Worst case it won't seal, best case you fixed it.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: euge on March 10, 2011, 12:49:13 AM
It would make a great grain storage container to keep the bugs out.

Or a fuh men-tah. 
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: jaybeerman on March 10, 2011, 12:59:52 AM
Use a hammer and dolly (if possible, i know the keg mouth is a weird shape to work with.)  I'm betting you could lightly hammer it out without scuffing the interior.  Worst Case, you could always use it to store cleaner or sanitizer.  Good luck, j
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Tony H. on March 10, 2011, 02:51:43 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  I was looking at the gaskets from Williams/Kegworks.  Although the gasket that came with it was new and provided a very tight seal, I had to really put some force into closing it, I will give that a go first, and then try to move the metal as a last resort. 

If all else fails, I had already thought about making it a vessel to store sanitizer and other stuff.


Thanks again for the quick responses!
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tom on March 10, 2011, 03:06:12 AM
You can bend the opening back into position with a small crescent wrench.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 10, 2011, 05:47:17 PM
These guys claim this o-ring will help with sealing older kegs.
May be worth trying.

http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=21412&cat=967&from_page= (http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=21412&cat=967&from_page=)

Also, Williams Brewing has a similar product. Read the descriptions for both; they use nearly the same information, but Kegworks is cheaper. (Of course shipping may be different for both, so price may equal out in the end; just do your due-diligence when shopping)

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-LID-SEALING-O-RING-P58C78.aspx (http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-LID-SEALING-O-RING-P58C78.aspx)
Has anyone tried these?  I like the idea, but if they work I'd also like to buy them in bulk.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tom on March 10, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
They do help. They are a little wider and a little softer than the usual O-ring.
If you find a place to order in bulk I would love to know.
Tom
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 10, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
Do you have any idea what they're made out of?  That would help in finding a source.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 10, 2011, 09:01:20 PM
Has anyone tried these?  I like the idea, but if they work I'd also like to buy them in bulk.

Tom - I was thinking the same thing last night as I was trying to get a new (used) keg to seal up after cleaning it.

Turns out I do have one of these larger o-rings, and it worked better than the standard though not perfect.  I did not warm it up to soften it, though, which always helps.

I've got to imagine McMaster Carr could match it.  I'll try to look up some part #s and if I remember to measure the o-ring tonight.

Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 10, 2011, 09:12:01 PM
I've got to imagine McMaster Carr could match it.  I'll try to look up some part #s and if I remember to measure the o-ring tonight.
Thanks, let me know what you find out.  I tried looking there earlier and didn't find anything in the right size range that was softer, but maybe you'll have better luck.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 10, 2011, 09:13:49 PM
I spoke too soon.  I can't find anything in their o-rings that gets fatter than 1/4 inch.

I'll check with Grainger and see what they have.  Got a friend in their sales group, but he may be of no use for such a small item...
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 11, 2011, 05:22:45 PM
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/catalogPDF.shtml

Here's what I find from Grainger.  Not exactly encouraging.

Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 11, 2011, 08:07:12 PM
I can't view it, it says I either have to use IE or Netscape.  What is the 30 second version?
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Hokerer on March 11, 2011, 08:23:43 PM
I can't view it, it says I either have to use IE or Netscape.  What is the 30 second version?

Don't think it's really your browser.  I just went to the link with IE and it gives the same message.  You can click on "Catalog 42" at the top of the page and that'll bring up the pdf of the catalog.  I have no idea what specific page the OP was referencing, though.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 11, 2011, 09:05:42 PM
I can't view it, it says I either have to use IE or Netscape.  What is the 30 second version?

Don't think it's really your browser.  I just went to the link with IE and it gives the same message.  You can click on "Catalog 42" at the top of the page and that'll bring up the pdf of the catalog.  I have no idea what specific page the OP was referencing, though.
There's only 1395 pages - let me know when you find it :)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 12, 2011, 12:10:55 AM
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Rod-Seal-2HZL6?Pid=search

Page 3109.  If you click on the "catalog page" link at the bottom of the above link, you'll get what appears to be the comprehensive list.

This is the closest I could find on their website, which I find to be less than user-friendly.

The Buna N o-ring listings start on page 3101.  It doesn't appear they have any they get wider than the 1/4 fractional width of the McMaster Carr o-ring.  But I may have missed something in the pages.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 12, 2011, 12:26:25 AM
The ones on page 3109 and 3110 are as hard as or harder than the usual ones, durometer Shore A of 70-95.

Bummer. :(
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 12, 2011, 12:27:23 AM
And much more expensive...
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 12, 2011, 12:31:15 AM
Yeah, I hadn't even looked at the price :)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 12, 2011, 12:36:39 AM
But there has to be a source.  If Williams Brewing is getting them somewhere, there's somewhere they can be gotten in bulk.

Somewhere...
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tubercle on March 12, 2011, 12:43:29 AM
 What exactly are we looking for?

  I'm a buyer by trade for my company and spend my day looking for non-existent items that engineers dream up in the surreal-world stupor they live in.

 I actually only play a buyer by day. When I get home the real me awakens.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Hokerer on March 12, 2011, 12:47:29 AM
  I'm a buyer by trade for my company and spend my day looking for non-existent items that engineers dream up in the surreal-world stupor they live in.

I'm an engineer and now I realize where I live :)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 12, 2011, 12:48:10 AM
We're looking for this, only softer and wider (which would change the OD).

3 1/2" ID x 4" OD x 1/4" width
9452K218 BunaN #417
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tubercle on March 12, 2011, 12:54:56 AM
We're looking for this, only softer and wider (which would change the OD).

3 1/2" ID x 4" OD x 1/4" width
9452K218 BunaN #417

 So...4"OD...only softer and wider (which would change the OD). Of course "wider" changes the OD!!!!

See. That's what I deal with every_single_day. Is it 4"OD or wider? Wider? How much? 1/8", 1/4", or half a mile?

Are you an Engineer? Did you graduate from Clemson University? (or as we call it around here Clem's Son).

 I see what I can find 8)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 12, 2011, 12:55:40 AM
They are available from a couple of places linked to earlier in the conversation, we're looking for a bulk source.

These guys claim this o-ring will help with sealing older kegs.
May be worth trying.

http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=21412&cat=967&from_page= (http://www.kegworks.com/product.php?productid=21412&cat=967&from_page=)

Also, Williams Brewing has a similar product. Read the descriptions for both; they use nearly the same information, but Kegworks is cheaper. (Of course shipping may be different for both, so price may equal out in the end; just do your due-diligence when shopping)

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-LID-SEALING-O-RING-P58C78.aspx (http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-LID-SEALING-O-RING-P58C78.aspx)

Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on March 14, 2011, 06:53:48 AM
I see what I can find 8)
Any luck?  Or is this something you need to do on a work day?
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tubercle on March 14, 2011, 09:39:36 PM
I see what I can find 8)
Any luck?  Or is this something you need to do on a work day?

Whoops...I forgot.

 Work day better...more resources 8)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on April 21, 2011, 06:00:22 AM
I see what I can find 8)
Any luck?  Or is this something you need to do on a work day?

Whoops...I forgot.

 Work day better...more resources 8)
How about now? ;D
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: abraxas on April 21, 2011, 11:32:49 AM
I too have a keg with an imperfection around the lip that doesn't like to seal.  I typically apply generous keg lube and seal, test and repeat until it passes the star san leak test.  Mine has held pressure for weeks at a time, though I've only used it to hold sanitizer so far.

Just ordered a few of those O-rings, I'll report back when I get them.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: beveragebob on April 29, 2011, 10:27:52 PM
If someone wants to drill down and dig, I'm sure these are the guys:

http://www.hannarubbercompany.com/O_RINGS.php

A little deeper I found this....Is Butyl Rubber OK for our applications? If so,

http://tinyurl.com/3zjhpf9
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tubercle on April 30, 2011, 12:06:09 AM
I see what I can find 8)
Any luck?  Or is this something you need to do on a work day?

Whoops...I forgot.

 Work day better...more resources 8)
How about now? ;D

 I can't find anything other than the Buna-N like from McMaster-Carr. Nothing in silicone.

 I called one vendor that makes silicone insulators for my company. They can make all we want for a $32,000 tooling set up fee and a contracted 60,000/year. I told him to wait and I would get back to him on that.

 Don't call me, I'll call you.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on April 30, 2011, 06:24:52 AM
If someone wants to drill down and dig, I'm sure these are the guys:

http://www.hannarubbercompany.com/O_RINGS.php

A little deeper I found this....Is Butyl Rubber OK for our applications? If so,

http://tinyurl.com/3zjhpf9
The tiny url takes me to a page that asks for my zipcode - is that what you intended?

I looked through their catalog, and it's not clear to me what would be a good substitute.  The standard is 4" OD, and 0.25" thick.

I called one vendor that makes silicone insulators for my company. They can make all we want for a $32,000 tooling set up fee and a contracted 60,000/year. I told him to wait and I would get back to him on that.

 Don't call me, I'll call you.
How much for the 60k? :)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tubercle on April 30, 2011, 01:31:37 PM
If someone wants to drill down and dig, I'm sure these are the guys:

http://www.hannarubbercompany.com/O_RINGS.php

A little deeper I found this....Is Butyl Rubber OK for our applications? If so,

http://tinyurl.com/3zjhpf9
The tiny url takes me to a page that asks for my zipcode - is that what you intended?

I looked through their catalog, and it's not clear to me what would be a good substitute.  The standard is 4" OD, and 0.25" thick.

I called one vendor that makes silicone insulators for my company. They can make all we want for a $32,000 tooling set up fee and a contracted 60,000/year. I told him to wait and I would get back to him on that.

 Don't call me, I'll call you.
How much for the 60k? :)

 I stopped @ the tooling charge. :D

Usually a quote like that equates to "we don't want to deal with it". ;D
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: beveragebob on May 01, 2011, 01:41:40 AM
Yeah Tom, apparently it looks for resalers in your area for their products. Closest one to me is El Paso and that's an hour away. I'm not in need of any at this point, just trying to nail down a supplier where prices may be reasonable.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on May 01, 2011, 06:23:50 AM
I'm not even sure what product I'm looking for though ;D
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: beveragebob on May 01, 2011, 11:59:08 AM
Me neither  :P   I guess if I was in the market for more(I' bought 3 or 4 from Williams years ago), I'd take it to said O-Ring reseller and see if he could match it by actual physical characteristics. Looks like some of these HB shops got the info locked up real good being I'm sure they are making a tidy profit on them. 
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on May 01, 2011, 08:21:50 PM
I might have to take a corny to one of the local suppliers some day, explain what I want, and see what they have.  If it's a walk-in kind of place.
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: beveragebob on May 02, 2011, 02:31:31 AM
Tom,

this is what came up for your neck of the woods:

http://tinyurl.com/3klsdt8


I have a friend that lives in Washington State and he cracked me up once when he told me the saying up there:

"If it moves shoot it, if it stays still, cut it down"  :D
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: tschmidlin on May 02, 2011, 04:16:35 AM
It must be storing a cookie on your computer or something, because it takes me to a generic page when I follow that link.  I'll find a place though, when it becomes important enough.

Where in WA is your friend from?  I'm guessing it's not the Seattle area, I've been here almost 15 years and I've never heard that saying. :)
Title: Re: Bent Mouth on Ball Lock Keg
Post by: beveragebob on May 02, 2011, 10:21:37 AM
Tom, he lives up in Elma.

Here's the whole link to find the Oring product dealers:

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.98bf0856fd643a238c23b35b8320d1ca/?vgnextoid=894fb34395d2b210VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextfmt=EN&divid=687519&divisionName=Part+List&catId=2618362&catName=BUTYL%20RUBBER%20%28IIR%29%20O-RINGS&partNumber=&srcTypeId=PARTLIST_PAGE&country=United%20States&noun=&modifier=&Wtky=

I certainly hope it's click-able.