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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: jivetyrant on March 10, 2011, 03:01:10 AM

Title: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: jivetyrant on March 10, 2011, 03:01:10 AM
I ordered some Wyeast 3711 French Saisonfrom my LHBS, but it seems that it will be a special order as their distributor does not have any in stock.  Bummer.  I have a good amount of dry yeast at home and even more available at my LBHS.  Are there any reasonable substitutes for this specialized yeast strain?  Halp!
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: tschmidlin on March 10, 2011, 04:20:50 AM
I've had some good Saisons made with Ardennes.
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: nateo on March 10, 2011, 04:24:09 AM
If you have to use a dry yeast, the only one remotely close would be T-58. But it's not nearly as attenuative as 3711. I recently made some beer with very similar gravities and grists, with 3711 and T-58. 3711 finished at 1.004, T-58 at 1.014. But, "saison" is sort of a catch-all category, and it can mean whatever you want, really.
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: jeffy on March 10, 2011, 12:04:06 PM
If you have to use a dry yeast, the only one remotely close would be T-58. But it's not nearly as attenuative as 3711. I recently made some beer with very similar gravities and grists, with 3711 and T-58. 3711 finished at 1.004, T-58 at 1.014. But, "saison" is sort of a catch-all category, and it can mean whatever you want, really.
I had a similar high finishing gravity using T-58 in a Tripel.  The half I fermented with 1388 finished at 1.010, but the T-58 stopped at 1.018, which is no longer a Tripel.
I really think that Saisons are pretty identifiable by the yeast and that if you don't use Saison yeast, you won't be making a Saison.  What you make may be really good no matter what, but you may want to call it something else.
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: jivetyrant on March 10, 2011, 12:55:19 PM
If you have to use a dry yeast, the only one remotely close would be T-58. But it's not nearly as attenuative as 3711. I recently made some beer with very similar gravities and grists, with 3711 and T-58. 3711 finished at 1.004, T-58 at 1.014. But, "saison" is sort of a catch-all category, and it can mean whatever you want, really.

That was my concern.  I have 2 or 3 packs of T-58 in the fridge but I have read that it's not very attenuative.  It seems to be unsuitable for higher OG recipes.  My OG is mid-range at 1.072, target FG of 1.015 using the Saison yeast.  It kills me that I might have to drive an hour to Cambridge for the right yeast, ugh.  Should have just ordered it online a week and a half ago when my LHBS said they might not be able to get the stuff.  Live and learn!
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: Mark G on March 10, 2011, 02:22:50 PM
You'll make a decent beer with the T-58, but I'm pretty sure you'll be disappointed if you're expecting a saison out of it. If it were me, I'd wait until I had the right yeast.
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: morticaixavier on March 10, 2011, 03:44:18 PM
That was my concern.  I have 2 or 3 packs of T-58 in the fridge but I have read that it's not very attenuative.  It seems to be unsuitable for higher OG recipes.  My OG is mid-range at 1.072, target FG of 1.015 using the Saison yeast.  It kills me that I might have to drive an hour to Cambridge for the right yeast, ugh.  Should have just ordered it online a week and a half ago when my LHBS said they might not be able to get the stuff.  Live and learn!
1.015 seems pretty high as an FG for a saison.
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: majorvices on March 10, 2011, 09:50:53 PM
+1 - a saison should be dry to the bone - or at least close. And while I agree that a saison can be sorta a "catch all" - T-58 isn't going to really be the best yeast for a saison. You need something that is highly attenuative with a fruity and/or peppery and/or earthy and/or funky character to really be a saison.
Title: Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
Post by: jivetyrant on March 11, 2011, 01:43:02 AM
Ended up getting out of work earlier than expected so I zipped to another LHBS in Rhode Island to pick up some White Labs Saison. (WLP 565)  Snagged 2 vials, that should be sufficient.  Going to do a starter tonight with hopes of brewing on Sunday.  Thanks for the advice, folks!