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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: cfleisher on March 26, 2011, 03:36:10 PM

Title: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: cfleisher on March 26, 2011, 03:36:10 PM
I've got about 4 oz. each of Czech Saaz and Cascade pellets and was thinking about using them in an IPA. Anybody ever tried this flavor/aroma combination?
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: denny on March 26, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
My concern would be that the Saaz would be overwhelmed by the Cascade, but I haven't actually done it.  Seems like the flavors would play well together as long as the Saaz came through.
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: oscarvan on March 26, 2011, 03:45:02 PM
Something like this?

Cascade 1.0 oz 60 minutes
Cascade 1.0 oz 15 minutes
Saaz 1.0 oz 15 minutes
Saaz 1.0 oz 1 minute
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: cfleisher on March 26, 2011, 03:52:20 PM
@Oscarvan -- That's about what I was thinking, although I've actually got twice as many hops -- 8 oz. total, with 4 oz. of each variety. I was thinking maybe something like this:

2 oz. Cascade -- 60 min.
1 oz. Cascade -- 20 min.
.5 oz. Cascade -- 10 min.
1 oz. Saaz -- 5 min.
1 oz. Saaz -- 1 min.
2 oz. Saaz -- dry hop
.5 oz. Cascade -- dry hop
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: denny on March 26, 2011, 03:55:47 PM
That might work.  What's the AA of the hops?
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: oscarvan on March 26, 2011, 04:36:31 PM
Yes, with that number you can estimate the IBU's.... although if you want to do that yourself, this is an EXCELLENT tool.

http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipe
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: weazletoe on March 26, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
How big a batch you making? I love cascade as much as I love bacon. If I were you, I'd go all Cascade, and save the Saaz for a later brew.
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: Wheat_Brewer on March 26, 2011, 04:49:50 PM
I would think that depending on your grain bill you might be able to make a great Pale Ale!  This is just me thinking that the IBU's might come up a little low with Saaz and Cascade only, and not knowing the grain bill might fall a little short of your expectations for an IPA.  In either case the hop schedule you made looked ideal for what you have.  Just my opinion though. 
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: euge on March 26, 2011, 05:25:31 PM
I've used Saaz quite a bit. Flavor-wise they can be a bit "earthy" IMO if misused.  You could use them at the end for a nice aroma. However, I'm with the weaze and save them for another recipe. Maybe try Chinook or Columbus(!) for your bittering and the Cascade for the flavor and aroma additions.

Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: jaybeerman on March 26, 2011, 05:53:27 PM
If you're truely looking to use these together then you might try something like this.  (you'll have to tweak it to fit your gravity to bitterness ratio preference)

30-50% of bittering, Cascade @ FWH
50-70% of bittering, Cascade @ 60 min
1.5 oz Saaz @ 10 minutes
1.5 oz Saaz @ 5 - 0 minutes
remaining hops as dry hop addition

it's just a thought but I've used a similar setup to blend the flavor of delicate hops with big bold hops
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: Will's Swill on March 26, 2011, 10:52:35 PM
OK, I'm noticing most of y'all are putting the Cascade up front and the Saaz at the end.  I just made a lager with the reverse.  Has a real skunky smell from the Cascade, I think I over did it...  Maybe now I see why y'all think the Saaz should finish...
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: srnoel on March 27, 2011, 06:04:49 AM
I'm actually doing an IPA with these two hops.  Got the idea from Mosher's Radical Brewing book.  Doing the Belgain/American influenced IPA.  I think these two hops will work great in an IPA.

I went with:
FWH  - .5 oz Perle
30min -  2oz Saaz
10min - .5 oz Cascade
0min   - 1 oz Saaz
(3gal batch size)

Haven't brewed it yet because I can't decide if the hop schedule would blend well or not.  Went with Perle at the beginning because I like its bittering more than Cascade though, plus I got some Perle laying around.  Would be great to know what you finally decide on when ya brew, and I'd love to hear your results.
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: tschmidlin on March 27, 2011, 07:32:06 AM
OK, I'm noticing most of y'all are putting the Cascade up front and the Saaz at the end.  I just made a lager with the reverse.  Has a real skunky smell from the Cascade, I think I over did it...  Maybe now I see why y'all think the Saaz should finish...
I don't know where the skunky smell is coming from in your beer, but I've never gotten that aroma from cascades.  Skunk typically comes from the beer being light-struck, any chance something like that happened to your batch?
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: jeffy on March 27, 2011, 03:35:28 PM
OK, I'm noticing most of y'all are putting the Cascade up front and the Saaz at the end.  I just made a lager with the reverse.  Has a real skunky smell from the Cascade, I think I over did it...  Maybe now I see why y'all think the Saaz should finish...
I don't know where the skunky smell is coming from in your beer, but I've never gotten that aroma from cascades.  Skunk typically comes from the beer being light-struck, any chance something like that happened to your batch?
Some people tend to confuse skunky aromas with Saaz hop aromas.  They seem similar at first sniff, which is why I also thought it odd that Will was blaming the Cascades.  Maybe he overdid the Saaz?
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: Will's Swill on March 27, 2011, 04:01:41 PM
Well, my descriptive vocabulary for tastes/smells is not that good.  It is definitely not light-struck.  I put a series of one of my pale ales in different colors of bottles in the sun to learn about this taste (surprisingly, green bottles protected the beer less that clear bottles, but brown bottles definitely provided protection, though not without some damage to the beer).  But you're right, noble hop aromas are similar to light struck aromas to me.

I opened one last night (now only two weeks in the bottle) and the smell is gone to be replaced with strong yeasty smell.  So you're right, I was quick to blame the Cascade.
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: timberati on March 27, 2011, 04:38:16 PM
And you kept the fermenting vessel out of the light?
Title: Re: Saaz and Cascade in an IPA?
Post by: Will's Swill on March 27, 2011, 05:00:38 PM
Yep, in fact a day or two into fermentation I racked to a cornie.  I was fermenting in glass in the basement, but after a day or two the basement was getting too warm.  I already had a cornie in the kegerator, so not enough room for two glass carboys.  But I am able to fit three cornies, so I rigged two with blow off tubes and fermented in there. 

Need more temp-controlled space.  One day my wife will part with our kitchen fridge and then it will be mine, Mine, MINE.