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General Category => Kegging and Bottling => Topic started by: roguejim on March 28, 2011, 07:19:46 PM

Title: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: roguejim on March 28, 2011, 07:19:46 PM
I can't figure out why I'm consistently getting a white residue on my equipment (kegs, plastic hoses) that I soak in Oxyclean.  After a hot water rinse, I'm now forced to douche everything with vinegar/water to remove the white film.  My only suspicion is that overnight soaking is the culprit, i.e., too long.  How long do you soak your equipment in Oxyclean?`
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 28, 2011, 07:25:16 PM
I never go more than about 3 hours.  Also, your water can make a difference.  Is it pretty hard?
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: euge on March 28, 2011, 07:29:03 PM
I soak with oxyclean no longer than a few minutes. IMO it's not really an extended "soaking" product. It performs best with agitation and very hot water.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: blatz on March 28, 2011, 07:31:15 PM
and very hot water.


but not too hot - if you go over 150df, it will cause a white film to form even if only soaking for 1-2 min.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: Beer Monger on March 28, 2011, 07:31:53 PM
I never considered using Oxy clean to clean any of my brewing equipment.  I usb PBW Keg Wash and Star San.  

Is Oxyclean considered an acceptable substitute?  
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 28, 2011, 07:33:17 PM
Is Oxyclean considered an acceptable substitute?  

Heck, yes.  It's essentially the same as PBW, but not identical.  I've used Oxyclean for the bulk of my brewery cleaning for 13 years.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: theDarkSide on March 28, 2011, 07:34:29 PM
My intention is to only soak my Better Bottles with Oxyclean for 30-60 minutes, but it ends up being 4-7 days because I forget, get lazy, or just plain don't want to do it right away.  When I do clean, I dump most of it out, shake the h3ll out of it, then rinse with hot tap water to clean it out.  No real problems with film.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: theDarkSide on March 28, 2011, 07:39:29 PM
I believe the guy from 5 Star said on Brew Strong that PBW has a chelator, where Oxyclean does not.  So there is less chance of hard water scale build up or something like that.

I think I need to relisten to that episode.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 28, 2011, 07:51:05 PM
I believe the guy from 5 Star said on Brew Strong that PBW has a chelator, where Oxyclean does not.  So there is less chance of hard water scale build up or something like that.

You're correct.  I use Oxiclean most of the time and about every 3 cleanings I use PBW to remove the tough organic stuff.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: tonyp on March 28, 2011, 09:45:56 PM
Like euge I use oxyclean to clean then immediately rinse, I never let it soak for more than a few minutes unless its something that is seriously stained like my gold coffee filter, which i'll let sit for a few hours or overnight depending how bad it is.

BTW, if you have a dollar store near you they sell a small bucket of an oxyclean knockoff, saves a ton of money.

Tony
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: euge on March 28, 2011, 09:50:29 PM
What I've been doing lately for the hard to remove/inaccessible crud on my plastic and glass is to use sodium hydroxide.  I don't have any PBW but do have a #10 tub of lye.  It'll remove stains and residue. This does soak for a while. Overnight works well.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: badhorsie on March 29, 2011, 12:11:11 AM
When you say oxyclean do you mean oxyclean free? I was always told that regular oxyclean had perfume in it?
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: Hokerer on March 29, 2011, 01:43:21 AM
When you say oxyclean do you mean oxyclean free? I was always told that regular oxyclean had perfume in it?

Yeah, the "free" is the best for just that reason
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: Beer Monger on March 29, 2011, 02:48:31 AM
I believe the guy from 5 Star said on Brew Strong that PBW has a chelator, where Oxyclean does not.  So there is less chance of hard water scale build up or something like that.

You're correct.  I use Oxiclean most of the time and about every 3 cleanings I use PBW to remove the tough organic stuff.

OK.  Considering this, I'll stick with PBW. 
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: kgs on March 29, 2011, 03:38:32 AM
Safeway sells a percarbonate cleanser (Oxyclean knockoff) that appears to have no perfumes and is very inexpensive. I have tubs of it all over the house, and one set aside for brewing. I do let bottles sit in it sometimes for weeks in a Homer bucket and they seem fine. Plastic tubing, on the other hand, clouds up quickly.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: ajk on March 29, 2011, 01:32:03 PM
I use OxiClean with water that has been run through an ion replacement system (water "softener").  It seems to eliminate the need for a chelator, I assume because the sodium that replaces the calcium in the softener's resin bed forms salts that don't stick the way calcium carbonate does.  I'm no chemistry expert!  But I can say that I never have a problem with inorganic buildup on my equipment, even after soaking in OxiClean solution for long periods.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 29, 2011, 03:25:09 PM
When you say oxyclean do you mean oxyclean free? I was always told that regular oxyclean had perfume in it?

Either one.  I use the Versatile and always have.  There is no scent from it.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: kgs on March 29, 2011, 03:56:08 PM
When you say oxyclean do you mean oxyclean free? I was always told that regular oxyclean had perfume in it?

Either one.  I use the Versatile and always have.  There is no scent from it.

There is to me, which is why when OxiClean Free became unavailable in this area, I stopped buying Oxiclean. It's a soapy-perfumey odor. Every nose is sui generis...
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: tygo on March 29, 2011, 04:21:06 PM
I agree that Versatile does have a scent to it.  But I've never noticed it carry over to any of my beers.  Usually I can't detect it on the equipment right after cleaning if I've rinsed it well.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 29, 2011, 04:28:52 PM
I agree that Versatile does have a scent to it.  But I've never noticed it carry over to any of my beers.  Usually I can't detect it on the equipment right after cleaning if I've rinsed it well.

Thanks for clarifying what I meant to say.  There is certainly no "Oxiclean aroma" that ends up in my beers.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: ajk on March 29, 2011, 05:06:08 PM
I use Versatile as well because it's super-cheap at Costco.  The fragrance is not very strong (compared to that of other detergents), and neither I nor any judges have detected any perfumy house character to my beers.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: richardt on March 29, 2011, 05:09:33 PM
I've encountered the same issues with oxyclean (or any similar percarbonate cleanser) for long soaks of any type of material, be it corny kegs, vinyl tubing, plastic buckets, whatever.  The residue is rock hard and can be removed from the inside of a corny keg with manual scrubbing.  "Whitened" plastic tubing just needs to be tossed--there's no salvaging it with vinegar or any other chemical, IMO.  I've stopped using it because it just leaves a white film on everything that then requires manual scrubbing to remove.  Rinsing alone does not remove it from bottles and kegs.

I suspect the issue is the water profile--mine has a high alkalinity (see Jacksonville, FL).  I'd love to hear what Martin B or any other water chem expert has to say about the situation.  I'm curious:  What is the white residue and why does it occur for some of us and not others?
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: Beer Monger on March 29, 2011, 05:21:29 PM
I guess I'd better clean my kegs soon.  I've had one soaking with PBW in it for about 9 days now.  lol
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: beersk on March 29, 2011, 06:26:55 PM
I believe the guy from 5 Star said on Brew Strong that PBW has a chelator, where Oxyclean does not.  So there is less chance of hard water scale build up or something like that.

You're correct.  I use Oxiclean most of the time and about every 3 cleanings I use PBW to remove the tough organic stuff.
Is this pretty necessary?  I never do this.  Usually after a keg kicks, I rinse it out with water really well and run some through the lines.  Every few times I'll run Oxyclean through and let it sit for 15 minutes, then rinse with water.  Should I be doing this with PBW instead?  Or BLC?
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 29, 2011, 06:43:24 PM
Is this pretty necessary?  I never do this.  Usually after a keg kicks, I rinse it out with water really well and run some through the lines.  Every few times I'll run Oxyclean through and let it sit for 15 minutes, then rinse with water.  Should I be doing this with PBW instead?  Or BLC?

Nope, it's not.  After talking to one of the 5 Star guys at NHC about how PBW was better for organic residue, though, I decided to try a test.  I cleaned some buckets with Oxiclean.  Then when they were really clean, I cleaned them again with PBW.  The PBW seemed to darken like it was removing stuff that the Oxi hadn't gotten.  I decided that PBW probably did a better job than Oxi, but not enough better to justify the expense of using it every time.  I still think Oxi does a great job.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: euge on March 29, 2011, 07:18:09 PM
Denny, an overnight lye soak completely removed the discoloration my fermenters took on. They looked brand-new. However, it isn't cheap, but since I have a bunch of it- why not eh?
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 29, 2011, 07:29:12 PM
Denny, an overnight lye soak completely removed the discoloration my fermenters took on. They looked brand-new. However, it isn't cheap, but since I have a bunch of it- why not eh?

Sure.  But in my case I don't think I want to put lye into my septic system.  Plus PBW worked great.  Plus, I don't have lye around like you do!  ;)
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: blatz on March 29, 2011, 07:30:55 PM
Sure.  But in my case I don't think I want to put lye into my septic system.  Plus PBW worked great.  Plus, I don't have lye around like you do!  ;)

umm, I am going to be on a septic system soon.  so you're telling me I can't use lye any more?  good to know, now.  doh.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 29, 2011, 07:34:51 PM
Sure.  But in my case I don't think I want to put lye into my septic system.  Plus PBW worked great.  Plus, I don't have lye around like you do!  ;)

umm, I am going to be on a septic system soon.  so you're telling me I can't use lye any more?  good to know, now.  doh.

Well, Paul, I'm guessing since I'm not a chemist.  But I generally try to keep stuff like that out of the system. 
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: beersk on March 29, 2011, 07:35:12 PM
Is this pretty necessary?  I never do this.  Usually after a keg kicks, I rinse it out with water really well and run some through the lines.  Every few times I'll run Oxyclean through and let it sit for 15 minutes, then rinse with water.  Should I be doing this with PBW instead?  Or BLC?

Nope, it's not.  After talking to one of the 5 Star guys at NHC about how PBW was better for organic residue, though, I decided to try a test.  I cleaned some buckets with Oxiclean.  Then when they were really clean, I cleaned them again with PBW.  The PBW seemed to darken like it was removing stuff that the Oxi hadn't gotten.  I decided that PBW probably did a better job than Oxi, but not enough better to justify the expense of using it every time.  I still think Oxi does a great job.
So it's safe to say that I could clean all my equipment and my beer lines with Oxyclean and shouldn't have a problem.
That's encouraging to know.  The brewing cleaning stuff isn't cheap.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: denny on March 29, 2011, 07:36:16 PM
So it's safe to say that I could clean all my equipment and my beer line with Oxyclean and shouldn't have a problem.
That's encouraging to know.  The brewing cleaning stuff isn't cheap.

I'd say that.  Oxi was all I used for about 10 years and I never had a problem.  I just got more OCD than I was!  :)
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: tschmidlin on March 29, 2011, 09:30:19 PM
Sure.  But in my case I don't think I want to put lye into my septic system.  Plus PBW worked great.  Plus, I don't have lye around like you do!  ;)

umm, I am going to be on a septic system soon.  so you're telling me I can't use lye any more?  good to know, now.  doh.

Well, Paul, I'm guessing since I'm not a chemist.  But I generally try to keep stuff like that out of the system. 
If you dilute lye enough it is harmless to your septic system, but for amount you'll use to clean carboys and such it is probably too much unless you have a monster house.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: oscarvan on March 30, 2011, 02:48:57 AM
I am on a septic...... No sanitizer, PBW or anything goes in to it. That's what the floor drain in the barn is for.... Where does that go? Well, there's a really lush green spot outside...... ::)
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: tschmidlin on March 30, 2011, 04:29:27 AM
As far as I know, starsan and pbw can go straight into the septic.  Some of mine definitely goes down there.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: beveragebob on March 30, 2011, 05:22:56 AM
Here's a few products that are real affordable:

Bru-R-EzT.M.
I00122    A powerful detergent blend for use on all metals in the brewery. Clean mashtuns, brew kettles, fermentors, heat exchangers, kegs, tap lines, etc. quicker and more effectively than with caustic products. Ultra rinsability – leaves a perfect shine on any metal. Used for CIP or hand scrubbing to remove protein, oil and grease without the use of searing caustics. Non-solvent, non-caustic, non-phenol.    P
Cell-R-MastrT.M.
I00148    A powerful detergent blend to clean mashtuns, brew kettles, fermentors, heat exchangers, kegs, tap lines, etc. more quickly and effectively than caustic products. Ultra-rinsability leaves a perfect shine on any metal. Used for CIP or hand scrubbing to remove protein, oil and grease without the use of caustic products. Non-solvent, non-caustic, non-phenol.

Here's the website. I've gotten lactic acid, antifoam products etc from them directly even though they service the "big boys"
Just send them an email and you'll get a price list real quick. NAYYY

http://www.birkocorp.com/Products.html
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: euge on March 30, 2011, 05:40:49 AM
What minimum quantities do they sell? That's how I ended up with a surplus of sodium hydroxide. :-\
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: beveragebob on March 30, 2011, 05:51:25 AM
I'm at work right now so, I don't have access to the products and price list but, for instance, I paid ~ 25 bucks + reasonable shipping for their anti foam(1 gallon) patcote-360 (olive oil based anti foam emulsion that works great. because of the FA's in the olive oil, O2 in the wort is optional)
I think it it's best to just email them so, they can send you the list directly. They seem pretty big on legal proprietary stuff so, I'd feel more comfortable if anyone interested inquire directly.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: euge on March 30, 2011, 05:52:41 AM
That's cool. I'll shoot'em a line. Thanks.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: kgs on March 31, 2011, 02:04:05 AM
I agree that Versatile does have a scent to it.  But I've never noticed it carry over to any of my beers.  Usually I can't detect it on the equipment right after cleaning if I've rinsed it well.

Thanks for clarifying what I meant to say.  There is certainly no "Oxiclean aroma" that ends up in my beers.

I hear you, and am not challenging your experience, but I wouldn't use it anyway, because of the aroma. I can smell it on laundry and on other things I use it on. Brewing isn't the only thing I use it for.

Edit: I may be imagining the fragrance, but since I'm convinced of it, using an alternative product I feel more confident in makes me a happier homebrewer. We all have our little superstitions!
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: Tristan on April 01, 2011, 09:56:49 PM
I switched to Oxyclean Free after I ran out of PBW.  I haven't experienced any build up in my fermentors or kegs.  I have pretty soft water though.

When I read the OP I laughed really loud regarding a particular phrase about the vinegar procedure.  Just a word of advice; modern medicine currently recommends against "douching."  LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: tubercle on April 01, 2011, 11:14:51 PM
I'm glad this post came up. There is a better bottle that has been soaking with oxiclean on the back porch for about a month now. Guess it needs to be dumped and rinsed.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: weazletoe on April 05, 2011, 12:44:55 PM
So it's safe to say that I could clean all my equipment and my beer lines with Oxyclean and shouldn't have a problem.
That's encouraging to know.  The brewing cleaning stuff isn't cheap.

 That's all I ever used. I'm not a fan of letting my stuff sit with crap in them. Within a day or to of kicking a keg, i fill it half full with hot water, and a couple scoops of Oxyclean. Let it sit, turn it over. Same with my fermentors. Fill it half full, shake it, let it sit. Maybe a swirl with a carboy brush. I never it let stuff sit longer than and hour. Never had problems with white haze. Also, for removing labels, nothing better than an Oxyclean soak.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: beersk on April 05, 2011, 03:39:18 PM
So it's safe to say that I could clean all my equipment and my beer lines with Oxyclean and shouldn't have a problem.
That's encouraging to know.  The brewing cleaning stuff isn't cheap.

 That's all I ever used. I'm not a fan of letting my stuff sit with crap in them. Within a day or to of kicking a keg, i fill it half full with hot water, and a couple scoops of Oxyclean. Let it sit, turn it over. Same with my fermentors. Fill it half full, shake it, let it sit. Maybe a swirl with a carboy brush. I never it let stuff sit longer than and hour. Never had problems with white haze. Also, for removing labels, nothing better than an Oxyclean soak.
Great.  I used to soak bottles to remove labels in B brite, but that's a pricey solution.  I tried Oxyclean recently and it worked like a charm. 
Seems like a practical solution for a fairly cheap price.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: kgs on May 08, 2011, 05:53:40 PM
Incidentally, I found "Oxiclean Versatile Free" at Target last week -- a new batch, as well. Apparently I wasn't the only one who preferred a fragrance-free product and was willing to defect to another brand to get it. And it was at a great price, too!
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: tygo on May 08, 2011, 08:24:53 PM
Incidentally, I found "Oxiclean Versatile Free" at Target last week -- a new batch, as well. Apparently I wasn't the only one who preferred a fragrance-free product and was willing to defect to another brand to get it. And it was at a great price, too!

I saw it at the grocery store the other day as well.  It's a bit more expensive than the bulk buy of the non-free stuff but I might pick some up once I'm done with my current vat.
Title: Re: Oxyclean...I'm doing something wrong...
Post by: cheba420 on May 08, 2011, 11:12:59 PM
I've been running with Ocyclean as my primary cleaner for a while now. You pay half price for twice as much product when compared to PBW. Its a great cleaner and its very inexpensive. I've let it sit in my kegs before for up to a week with no problems. Anyone who isnt using it should give it a whirl.