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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: bluesman on November 04, 2009, 08:25:34 pm

Title: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluesman on November 04, 2009, 08:25:34 pm
I use a Coleman Ultimate Extreme 58qt cooler. It's blue/green in color...not that it matters what color it is.   :D

I was wondering...what do you use?
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: Chad Haatvedt on November 04, 2009, 08:39:38 pm
I use a pair of the 10 gallon round rubbermaid drink coolers.  You can see pictures in my gallery at www.borealbrewers.com  http://www.borealbrewers.com/index.php?action=view_gallery&id=4&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random4a135ebf5d7d8 (http://www.borealbrewers.com/index.php?action=view_gallery&id=4&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random4a135ebf5d7d8)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: Hokerer on November 04, 2009, 08:59:36 pm
Coleman Extreme here too, although just the 36 quart.  But hey, it is blue.  Uses a simplified version of Denny's batch sparge braid system.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: rick500 on November 04, 2009, 09:27:42 pm
I use a big orange 10 gallon round Rubbermaid cooler from Home Depot.  Off-season, you can find them there for under $40.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bonjour on November 04, 2009, 09:30:37 pm
A 10 gallon Igloo with a false bottom. It has made me many monster 5 gallon batches.

Fred
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: beerocd on November 04, 2009, 10:06:23 pm
9 gallon stainless steel, false bottom, spigot. From Midwestsupplies.com

-OCD.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: dhacker on November 05, 2009, 05:32:54 am
Gott 60 w/ 4 runs of SS braid for the manifold . . twin auto stir motors with 4 model airplane propellers doing the work.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: redbeerman on November 05, 2009, 05:54:21 am
I use a big orange 10 gallon round Rubbermaid cooler from Home Depot.  Off-season, you can find them there for under $40.

+1  With a braid.  Works great.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on November 05, 2009, 06:14:08 am
Coleman Xtreme 52 qt rectangular cooler w/ 12" SS braid and a Kewler Kitz spigot.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: theDarkSide on November 05, 2009, 06:25:41 am
I have a 70 quart Coleman Xtreme cooler with SS hose braid.  Use the following instructions: http://brewing.lustreking.com/gear/mashtun.html

Works great!
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: wilypig on November 05, 2009, 06:41:11 am
I use a 12 gallon Cube cooler with a slotted copper manifold. The geometry is good and can be safely lifted when full of a freshly doughed in mash.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: homebrewdad on November 05, 2009, 06:41:28 am
I took a 15 gallon keg, cut out the top (like for a boil kettle), drilled a hole in the bottom.  I welded a 1/2 inch threaded coupling over this hole, and installed a valve.  Inside, I put a circular false bottom.  I had to cut slots in my top opening to accommodate the screen's installation and removal.  

I built a wooden box, roughly a cube, around the keg and filled it with Great Stuff spray in insulation.  When I use it, my temps only drop about one degree in an hour.

My one mistake in engineering the Mashtun was welding another coupling in the side to accept a dial thermometer.  I made the hole too high, so when I'm doing a five gallon batch, the mash is actually below my thermo. >:(
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: zee on November 05, 2009, 06:56:04 am
used to have the 10gallon home depot rubbermaid cooler with a false bottom from morebeer. that worked very well provided that you heat it up before doughing in. now i've got a 1550, and with it a 15gallon stainless steel mash tun, which is good, but i think i'll be adding some insulation on it at some point. brewing in the winter especially, i can't imagine the temperature gradient that exists when it's -5 outside, and 65 inside.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: planet_scott on November 05, 2009, 07:28:21 am
72 qt Coleman Extreme....Limited edition Forrest Green which means I get about 252% efficiency.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: skotrat on November 05, 2009, 07:33:10 am
I use a converted 55 gallon drum and a chopped 55 gallon drum that holds about 35 gallon. I also have a 20 gallon converted o2 tank...

Depending on the size of the batch I am brewing I may use one of these systems or a combination of these systems

Some Pics:

(http://www.skotrat.com/skot/equipment/Feb_22_BW/images/DSC00064.jpg) (http://www.skotrat.com/skot/equipment/Feb_22_BW/images/DSC00065.jpg) (http://www.skotrat.com/skot/equipment/OSJACSA_Feb_2009/images/DSC01820.jpg) (http://www.skotrat.com/skot/equipment/Brew_Rig_Pics/images/DSC00011.jpg) (http://www.skotrat.com/skot/equipment/Brew_Rig_Pics/images/DSC00421.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: stout_fan on November 05, 2009, 07:51:24 am
I use keggles for HLT and BK.
So a Colman 70 qt extreme works for most of my brewing.
Big stuff gets the 152 quart cooler.
Both braided.

For winter indoors and 5 gal batches I have a 10 gal round gott.
Presently a bazooka tube.
Thinking about changing to a SS perf bottom.
Too much dead space that even batch sparging can't help.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: budweiser on November 05, 2009, 08:34:58 am
I have two of them.

One is a 10gal Orange Gott with a copper manifold. This is my primary tun which I get about 75-80% eff in. I always hit my numbers in this system so I use it the most.

The other is a 58qt Coleman Xtreme with the DC CnE setup.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: matt on November 05, 2009, 08:47:31 am
I use an 8 gallon round Gott cooler with braid - got everything at my local menards many years ago. Still going strong, however, I recently converted a much larger coleman cooler so I could make bigger beers.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: pweis909 on November 05, 2009, 09:00:34 am
50 quart cube cooler with copper pipe manifold.  Manifold is shaped sort of like a figure 8, with slots spaced about 1 cm apart,  made using a dremmel cut-off tool.  I batch sparge.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: d_bräu on November 05, 2009, 09:03:16 am
I use a 10 gallon stainless steel pot for big beers a 5 gallon pot for regular ones. Insulation did not seem to be a big problem (it cools down at around 2°F in 30 min, but I compensate for that with heating) and temperature control is very easy, because they can be heated on the stove. The 10 gallon pot I also use for boiling. During sparging there is enough time to clean the guy. I normally get 75 % efficiency.  
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: hamiltont on November 05, 2009, 09:04:57 am
70 qt. Coleman X-Treme with SS braid.  Consistently gives me 75% BHE, and I'm happy with that...
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: ryan6458 on November 05, 2009, 09:22:57 am
Uses a simplified version of Denny's batch sparge braid system.

You mean there's a simpler version? ;D

70 quart Coleman extreme with braid here. Couldn't be happier with it. :D
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: donosborn on November 05, 2009, 09:40:20 am
I use a 48 qt Rubbermaid rectangular cooler that I made into a mash tun for around $29.00

http://www.donosborn.com/homebrew/mashtun.htm

It is modeled after Denny's!  :)

Cheap, easy, and makes award-winning beer. Can't complain.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: richt on November 05, 2009, 09:43:26 am
I just started AG brewing with a 70 quart Coleman Xtreme with a braid for me.  Works great so far, three 10 gallon batches under my belt.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: mybeerpants on November 05, 2009, 09:56:37 am
The 50-something quart Coleman Xtreme here as well with the braid configuration straight from Denny's site. I bought all the materials for a fancy drain valve, but since I couldn't find SS washers, I went with the drilled stopper method and never looked back.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: maxieboy on November 05, 2009, 09:57:45 am
70 qt. Coleman Extreme w/ a 1/2" copper slotted manifold per Palmer's specs. Self fabbed bulkhead. Routine 80% eff. using non-adj. JSP Maltmill powered @ 300 rpm and batch sparging. Cooler is silver in color, therefore good for an extra 5% over blue. ;)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: denny on November 05, 2009, 11:09:18 am
I use a Coleman Ultimate Extreme 58qt cooler. It's blue/green in color...not that it matters what color it is.   :D

I was wondering...what do you use?

What????  Of course color matters!  Blue coolers get higher efficiency....didn't you get the memo??

I suppose a lot of people already know, but I use a 48 qt. Rubbermaid cooler with a hose braid.  It's been in use for 10 years and 358 batches without modifications.

(http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_html/dennybrew/equip2.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: The Adequate Brewer on November 05, 2009, 11:26:53 am
After reading all these posts I have a bit of mash tun envy.  ;D
I have a 5 gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a stainless false bottom.  It works great but only holds about 14 lb of grain.  It's usually not a big deal since most of my beers are in the 1.045 to 1.060 range.  Anything over that, I have to suppliment with extract.  I may go up to a 10 gallon some day, but for now it works great.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: skotrat on November 05, 2009, 11:27:54 am
once you go big....

you start getting FAT  ;D
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: mike_sdak on November 05, 2009, 11:56:01 am
Since this is the AHA, and all, my mash tun is a sort of a Denny Conn-ized ZAPAP:

a 6-gallon plastic bucket with a hose braid, instead of the original ZAPAP's false- bottom approach.

I insulate it with whatever is convenient at mash-in - works great, actually.

I owe a lot of brewing enjoyment to that setup, and those who inspired it.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluegrassbrewer on November 05, 2009, 12:59:00 pm
I use a 5 gallon Rubbermaid round drink cooler with a copper pipe manifold in the bottom.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: hjherbenson on November 05, 2009, 01:09:38 pm
I use a 20 gal ss pot with a false bottom. I wraped a piece of water heater insulation around it holds the temp much better.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: dzlater on November 05, 2009, 03:01:38 pm
5 gallon round cooler
(it was free)
with SS false bottom
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: slimsparty on November 05, 2009, 03:48:26 pm
60qt igloo ice cube dennyized
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: corkybstewart on November 05, 2009, 07:10:29 pm
Since this is the AHA, and all, my mash tun is a sort of a Denny Conn-ized ZAPAP:

a 6-gallon plastic bucket with a hose braid, instead of the original ZAPAP's false- bottom approach.

I insulate it with whatever is convenient at mash-in - works great, actually.

I owe a lot of brewing enjoyment to that setup, and those who inspired it.
I still have my ZapPap-I used mine for about 4 years before I upgraded to a converted keg system.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: smurfe on November 05, 2009, 07:51:45 pm
I used a 10 gallon Coleman Cooler with a domed false bottom for a few years that worked great. Much better than the rectangular cooler with manifold I started with. Now I have a sculpture that uses 15 gallon stainless kegs.



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Brew/IMG_1320.jpg)



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Brew/BrewMagic004.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: karlh on November 06, 2009, 11:37:15 am
15 gallon polarware with false bottom and dial thermometer or 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler with phils phalse bottom (which I would recommend for newer all grain brewers). 
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: MDixon on November 06, 2009, 01:41:04 pm
A crappy coleman cooler with a crappy slotted coil in an Armstrong System. Of course if I am making more than one mash at the time it could be an old bottling bucket with a drilled coil, or a red cooler (forget the brand) with a drilled coil. Still use the cinder blocks, but now use some plastic sawhorses and an old piece of counter top.


(http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/Homebrew/Setup%20and%20Techniques_files/image002.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: slimsparty on November 06, 2009, 02:11:42 pm
Sawhorses are AHA certified!  I have an old door for my platform.  I need to think up a sculpture.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: blatz on November 06, 2009, 03:10:11 pm
70 qt. Coleman X-Treme with SS braid.  Consistently gives me 75% BHE, and I'm happy with that...

same exact here, cept with a bazooka screen.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: pdbreen on November 06, 2009, 04:44:11 pm
10gal Rubbermaid with false bottom.  Also started using a large grain bag as a liner which has made getting the grains to the compost pile a breeze and pretty much eliminates the need to Vorlauf (though I still do as I'm not yet convinced it will always run clear from the start).
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: niquejim on November 06, 2009, 05:11:04 pm
I use a  48qt Coleman cooler from Wally world( for $10.) with a 8" SS braid.

I need to get a new one because I only get 82% because it's red :P
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: tomthebrewer on November 06, 2009, 06:04:57 pm
Ten gallon round cooler with a SS hose braid. It's currently orange, but I'm thinking of painting it blue...
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: scottyb on November 06, 2009, 07:06:11 pm
Rubbermaid rectangular 52qt with a SS braid and it is silver

I also have a keggle with false bottom but I don't use it much.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: weazletoe on November 06, 2009, 09:53:40 pm
I just started AG brewing with a 70 quart Coleman Xtreme with a braid for me.  Works great so far, three 10 gallon batches under my belt.

+1. But I only have two 10gal batches.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: eaholljr on November 07, 2009, 12:39:37 am
mike_sdak, could you send a pix of your setup? I'd like to see it. I use the bucket method now too.

-Eldon
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: tom on November 07, 2009, 08:49:01 am
I started with a 5 gallon Gott cooler, then got ;) a 10 gallon Gott. And now a 15 gallon keg. But I keep them all so I can use whichever is the right size, or all of them if necessary.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: tubercle on November 07, 2009, 09:06:14 am
I've an old Coleman, the kind with the metal outside, but it only loses ~2f in 60 minutes.

It's red with white inside but I put blue stripes on it so all the bases are covered ;)

It also has a braid/slotted copper manifold.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: mrcceo on November 07, 2009, 09:36:48 am
7 Gallon Rubbermaid, but I'm currently looking to upgrade to 58 qts.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: babalu87 on November 07, 2009, 10:41:09 am
Rubbermaid RED
Dont be listening to those West Coast HATERS about Bleu coolers

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff144/babalu87/Brew%20Day/Mashtuntoboilkettle.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: barliman on November 07, 2009, 12:48:20 pm
5 gal Rubbermaid bev. cooler with a braid. 
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: beardog on November 07, 2009, 11:31:18 pm
Quote
I use a big orange 10 gallon round Rubbermaid cooler from Home Depot.  Off-season, you can find them there for under $40.

Me too, I love it.  I use a bazooka T with it.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: drf255 on November 08, 2009, 05:04:54 am
50 qt. green coleman upright.  If it was blue, I'm sure my beer would be a little better.  I can get 18 gallons of 1050 beer out of it with some finagling.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: coloradobrewer on November 08, 2009, 05:34:00 am
I use a 48qt Igloo Ice Cube and batch sparge.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: akr71 on November 08, 2009, 06:24:09 am
Blue 48 qt Coleman.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: denny on November 08, 2009, 01:33:41 pm
I had a bunch of people out yesterday to brew for TAF.  Here's what it looked like afterwards...

(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/dennyconn/coolersLA0181.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: babalu87 on November 08, 2009, 07:12:02 pm
I had a bunch of people out yesterday to brew for TAF.  Here's what it looked like afterwards...

(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/dennyconn/coolersLA0181.jpg)

HA!

Look at that Red Red Rose amongst the thorns!

 
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluesman on November 09, 2009, 08:52:11 am
I had a bunch of people out yesterday to brew for TAF.  Here's what it looked like afterwards...

(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/dennyconn/coolersLA0181.jpg)

HA!

Look at that Red Red Rose amongst the thorns!

 :P

Looks like it's a sea of blue.

 
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: maxieboy on November 09, 2009, 09:03:32 am
70 qt. Coleman Extremes, baby! ;D
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on November 09, 2009, 02:14:08 pm
10 Gal orange round cooler with false bottom.
Works pretty good.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: tntjr on November 09, 2009, 07:41:36 pm
10 gallon Rubermaid with a SS false bottom. Recent upgrade from Phil's Lauter Tun. Both work great though the insulation on the Rubermaid sure makes holding temps easier.

Tom
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluesman on November 09, 2009, 08:17:42 pm
This is beauty. Mash tun at Rathaus Brauerei Restaurant, Luzern, Switzerland.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VQe__qlNFZk/SNAABdcPBBI/AAAAAAAAA-4/oahgn9PfoSM/s400/rathaus_mash_tun.JPG)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: central_wa_brewing on November 09, 2009, 10:04:39 pm
It depends on how much time I have. 
15 gallon s/s kettle with fb(have time) or a good ol' Rubbermaid cooler with copper manifold(in a rush).
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: yugamrap on November 10, 2009, 06:51:27 am
I use a 28-quart Rubbermaid for 5-gallon batches, and a 60-quart Igloo for 10-gallon batches and higher gravity beers.  I use the same CPVC manifold in both with some minor reconfiguration.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/34sf69g.jpg)

(http://i44.tinypic.com/5jy5ux.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: realbeerguy on November 10, 2009, 04:52:22 pm
A 10 gallon Igloo with a false bottom. It has made me many monster 5 gallon batches.

Fred

+1

got mine from Grainger.  More of an industrial grade.  Holds temp +/- 1 dF
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluesman on November 10, 2009, 06:58:42 pm
Here's a fancy wood veneer on this modern mash tun at Arcadia Brewery in Battle Creek, MI.

The wood mash tun seen in this photo is actually a steel mash tun with a nice wooden facade. Looks cool though. And the “brick kettle” you see in the background is a steel kettle with a brick facade surrounding it. Looks authentic, but while Arcadia does stick to a strict British brewing method and system, they use modern gear.

(http://cryptobrewology.com/images/arcadia/arcadia-mash-tun.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: timo on November 11, 2009, 05:52:59 pm
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/tbmoc1/4%20July%20Brew/IMG_0450.jpg)

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/tbmoc1/Brewcart_2009/clip_image001.jpg)

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/tbmoc1/Brewcart_2009/IMG_0425.jpg)

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/tbmoc1/Brewcart_2009/IMG_0427.jpg)


165 Qt monster. I gave up making anything less than 12 gallons at a time.

TimO
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: brewtastic on November 11, 2009, 05:56:36 pm
I just use a 48 qt rectangular coleman with a ss toilet supply braid.  Has been working great for me.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: brookspn on November 11, 2009, 08:04:12 pm
I use a 1/2 bbl keg with the top cut out much like many of you do, but I must say, I had not thought of putting a box around it and filling it with insulation.  GREAT idea!  I will definitely be doing that to mine. 

Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: intrinsic on November 11, 2009, 08:35:34 pm
I use a 50qt rectangular coleman cooler with a ss toilet braid.  It has been working great for me. Oh and make sure you get the GREEN one  ;)

(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/intrinsic1/50QtMashTun-3.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: 4dogbrewer on November 12, 2009, 04:27:15 am
I use a converted 58L SS keg with a cheap HD 1500 watt element. I use a timer and my mash temps are within range when I get up. I use a ss false bottom with an easy to remove fitting.


Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluesman on November 12, 2009, 05:11:34 am
I was considering upgrading to a bigger tun...but I don't think it's going to fit in my garage.  ;D

(http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/project/i-room/resources/vwow/tutorial/img/14-Mash-Tun.jpg)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: tankdeer on November 12, 2009, 09:15:50 am
48qt cooler with a CPVC manifold. Works well for me.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: dan1076 on November 12, 2009, 11:21:10 am
I also use a 10 gallon rubber maid round cooler.  Works great for both 5 and 10 gallon batches and continuous sparging set up.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: mtbrewer on November 13, 2009, 02:00:46 pm
10 gallon round Gott, with SS braid. Blue of course. :P I used to fly, but now I batch sparge. It can make up to 12 gallons of beer depending on the style.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: andrewkona on November 16, 2009, 03:41:04 pm
I use a pair of the 10 gallon round rubbermaid drink coolers.  You can see pictures in my gallery at www.borealbrewers.com  http://www.borealbrewers.com/index.php?action=view_gallery&id=4&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random4a135ebf5d7d8 (http://www.borealbrewers.com/index.php?action=view_gallery&id=4&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random4a135ebf5d7d8)

+1
I use the same kind of gravity fed set up. Works great for small spaces and they hold temps very well I am finding.
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: bluesman on November 16, 2009, 05:49:34 pm
Here's the mash tun's and wash backs used at Chichibu Distillery, Tokyo, Japan.

Yes...that's right...single malt Whiskey made in Japan.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7Nheqvl9IVc/R_iQZZsSQWI/AAAAAAAACYk/BJ66IRipaxY/s1600/chichibudistillery.JPG)
Title: Re: What kind of mash tun do you use?
Post by: boulderbrewer on November 17, 2009, 11:53:45 am
I have a 48 qt and a 70 quart cooler, both are blue. Both with SS braided lines.