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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: bluefoxicy on April 11, 2011, 01:40:20 pm

Title: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 11, 2011, 01:40:20 pm
So on Wednesday I up and decided to ride a bicycle to work.  I haven't been going to the dojo lately and have been pretty sedentary, so it seemed like a good idea.

I couldn't walk when I got there.  And had chest pains for about 5 hours.

8 hours later I was fully recovered, and the ride home was a LOT easier.  Be mindful this is a hilly area, so I'm forever coming up a hill and then going down another one; it couldn't be uphill there and a nice, smooth, downhill ride home, huh?    >:(

Today wasn't so bad, I actually made it, instead of making it 1 mile and forcing the rest of the way.  I could even walk the bike up that last hill! (it was like dragging a tank last time; I can't pedal up the hill).

My odometer says 24 miles total for the three trips.

So I guess it's 8 miles each way huh?  Takes me an hour; 40 minutes in the car.  I'm only doing this on Mondays and either Thursday or Friday though.

One thing I found out:  it's about 15 degrees hotter outside if a bicycle is involved.  ???
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 11, 2011, 01:44:11 pm
Good for you (Except the chest pains, of course!  Hope they're nothing major.)

My issue is exploding GUT!  lol  I have plans to start an exercise program in May - what was I thinking?  Seattle Beer Week is in May!

We'll see how I do....  
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: theDarkSide on April 11, 2011, 01:49:48 pm
Uh, maybe you should check with your doctor before getting back into something this quickly?

Chest pains are not a good thing...ever!!!  If you've been out of the game for a while, try easing back into it instead of pushing yourself to the limit.

Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 11, 2011, 02:06:38 pm
Good for you!  

My issue is exploding GUT!  lol  I have plans to start an exercise program in May - what was I thinking?  Seattle Beer Week is in May!

We'll see how I do....  

I recommend some Yoga (you can Wii Fit Plus this) and maybe push-ups (http://www.hundredpushups.com/what.html) and sit-ups (http://twohundredsitups.com/)....  If you engage in about 15 minutes of meditation a day, you can leave off the Wii Fit and do Yoga independently as a moving meditation (this is, by the way, incredible in every possible way), and cut the independent meditation down to 5 minutes if you like (meditating while doing Yoga is actually better).  Ignore actual time for that stuff, just have a Yoga routine and do whatever feels like "enough" if you're just meditating.

So this comes out to what


About half an hour.  Do these in that order:  the meditation (after you've taken the week or so to figure it out) will actually wake you up immediately from a dead sleep.  I usually do this in full Lotus (can you?!) or Seiza on the floor; but just Agura (cross-legged, no lotus) works, although it's notably imbalanced (Lotus is perfectly flat and balanced).  It takes me roughly one minute to be completely awake, although I can also do it to relax before first sleep or in the period between.

It's a start.  The hard part is actually finding the time, because Yoga is a good way to wake up, or maybe push-ups, or whatnot; but you always wake up and shower first because you're tired, then you wanna eat, then you wanna leave, and oh it'll take too long... but you wander around in the shower and spend half an hour there "waking up," you eat slow, and you waste half an hour or so just fooling around before work.

I know because I waste about 2 hours in the morning-- I wake up at 6:30 and I leave around 9:00, and in between I cook breakfast and eat.  I used to wake up at 6:30, shower, shave (damn fine shave with a straight razor), 30 minutes of Wii Fit (including Yoga, light aerobics, a little strength), cook and eat, and get out at 8:30, be at work around 9:00.  It may sound like a military drill, but it's not; I power up and set up the Wii while I'm cooking and eating, which only takes me 15 minutes (it takes about 5 to get into Wii Fit Plus and set up a routine to start out; I don't pre-plan).  It's mainly leisure, not trying to squeeze every second out rushing from room to room; I don't do stress.

Taking up a martial art is a better way to waste 2 hours than getting a gym membership, btw.  It might be lighter than power-lifting or whatever, but a good martial arts class will make you warm up and do strength training for 10-15 minutes.  If you want a gym, get home gym equipment and skip the commute; if you want to drop a ton of fat, take up kickboxing (no, not kidding, talk about sudden heart failure...).  Some places market "Aerobic Kickboxing," which will have you drowning in a puddle of your own grease until your BMI is only a little above normal ;)

I've always considered "fitness" a waste of my time.  If I have to waste 2 hours of my day to stay in shape, I'm doing something wrong; that's why I head for martial arts.  It's mental training, and the "fitness" thing is a side-effect.  Morning and before-bed things I do simply to set my body into a state of awakeness or relaxation (these are both pretty close) so I can get up easier or go to sleep faster and sleep better.  It's efficient, in the same way that keeping your car tuned up is more efficient than letting it die from ill maintenance (poorly maintained cars are slow and fuel-hoggish, and take a lot of time and money to keep running).

Uh, maybe you should check with your doctor before getting back into something this quickly?

What's a doctor?  There's no such thing as medical records for me; they simply aren't on file, I have no medical history.  I've been out of the system long enough that I dropped out of the archives.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 11, 2011, 02:38:18 pm
Good for you!  

My issue is exploding GUT!  lol  I have plans to start an exercise program in May - what was I thinking?  Seattle Beer Week is in May!

We'll see how I do....  

I recommend some Yoga (you can Wii Fit Plus this) and maybe push-ups (http://www.hundredpushups.com/what.html) and sit-ups (http://twohundredsitups.com/)....  If you engage in about 15 minutes of meditation a day, you can leave off the Wii Fit and do Yoga independently as a moving meditation (this is, by the way, incredible in every possible way), and cut the independent meditation down to 5 minutes if you like (meditating while doing Yoga is actually better).  Ignore actual time for that stuff, just have a Yoga routine and do whatever feels like "enough" if you're just meditating.

So this comes out to what

  • 5 minutes meditation
  • 10 minutes Yoga
  • 10 minutes push-ups

About half an hour.  Do these in that order:  the meditation (after you've taken the week or so to figure it out) will actually wake you up immediately from a dead sleep.  I usually do this in full Lotus (can you?!) or Seiza on the floor; but just Agura (cross-legged, no lotus) works, although it's notably imbalanced (Lotus is perfectly flat and balanced).  It takes me roughly one minute to be completely awake, although I can also do it to relax before first sleep or in the period between.

It's a start.  The hard part is actually finding the time, because Yoga is a good way to wake up, or maybe push-ups, or whatnot; but you always wake up and shower first because you're tired, then you wanna eat, then you wanna leave, and oh it'll take too long... but you wander around in the shower and spend half an hour there "waking up," you eat slow, and you waste half an hour or so just fooling around before work.

I know because I waste about 2 hours in the morning-- I wake up at 6:30 and I leave around 9:00, and in between I cook breakfast and eat.  I used to wake up at 6:30, shower, shave (damn fine shave with a straight razor), 30 minutes of Wii Fit (including Yoga, light aerobics, a little strength), cook and eat, and get out at 8:30, be at work around 9:00.  It may sound like a military drill, but it's not; I power up and set up the Wii while I'm cooking and eating, which only takes me 15 minutes (it takes about 5 to get into Wii Fit Plus and set up a routine to start out; I don't pre-plan).  It's mainly leisure, not trying to squeeze every second out rushing from room to room; I don't do stress.

Taking up a martial art is a better way to waste 2 hours than getting a gym membership, btw.  It might be lighter than power-lifting or whatever, but a good martial arts class will make you warm up and do strength training for 10-15 minutes.  If you want a gym, get home gym equipment and skip the commute; if you want to drop a ton of fat, take up kickboxing (no, not kidding, talk about sudden heart failure...).  Some places market "Aerobic Kickboxing," which will have you drowning in a puddle of your own grease until your BMI is only a little above normal ;)

I've always considered "fitness" a waste of my time.  If I have to waste 2 hours of my day to stay in shape, I'm doing something wrong; that's why I head for martial arts.  It's mental training, and the "fitness" thing is a side-effect.  Morning and before-bed things I do simply to set my body into a state of awakeness or relaxation (these are both pretty close) so I can get up easier or go to sleep faster and sleep better.  It's efficient, in the same way that keeping your car tuned up is more efficient than letting it die from ill maintenance (poorly maintained cars are slow and fuel-hoggish, and take a lot of time and money to keep running).

Uh, maybe you should check with your doctor before getting back into something this quickly?

Thanks for the write up, but I'm going to be joining my wife's gym. She's lost over 150lbs in the 10 years since we got married - so she's gonna be my 'personal trainer' to help get me in shape.  I need a 'kick start', and I'm not in shape enough to start with martial arts - I need to get at least into decent shape before that. 

For now, I need to focus on cardio.  I'll be spending a lot of time on the eliptical machine!
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: denny on April 11, 2011, 03:35:34 pm
What's a doctor?  There's no such thing as medical records for me; they simply aren't on file, I have no medical history.  I've been out of the system long enough that I dropped out of the archives.

As someone who's had a heart attack, allow me to say that you're an idiot.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 11, 2011, 03:37:44 pm
Congrats, dude.  Riding a bike to work kicks ass, I can't imagine a sedentary life of not biking where I go.  I feel so lazy and crappy when I don't ride to work.  I don't own a car, it's the only way I get around most times.  I ride 5 or so miles each way every day of the week, rain or shine.  The only days I don't ride are when there's about a foot of snow on the ground or super icy (even though I have studded tires, they only provide you so much traction).
And yes, you definitely have to dress lighter than you would normally.  For me, I wear a tshirt down to about 50F, then I put arm warmers on down to about 40-45F, then it's a wind proof rain jacket down to about 20F, then my nice windproof winter jacket down below zero.  Shorts usually go on, when it's above about 60F in the morning.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: uthristy on April 11, 2011, 04:50:43 pm
How old are you?
8 miles per trip and your having chest pains, dude put down the fork & crack pipe.

oh, you may want to start eatting some aspirin it just might save your life.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: euge on April 11, 2011, 04:52:31 pm
Used to ride everywhere as a bicycle was my only transport. Was in the best shape of my life. Now that fuel is going up a bicycle might be in order and the ride to work is about 8 miles. That's not far on a bike.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 11, 2011, 05:24:07 pm
Thanks for the write up, but I'm going to be joining my wife's gym. She's lost over 150lbs in the 10 years since we got married - so she's gonna be my 'personal trainer' to help get me in shape.  I need a 'kick start', and I'm not in shape enough to start with martial arts - I need to get at least into decent shape before that. 

For now, I need to focus on cardio.  I'll be spending a lot of time on the eliptical machine!

False :P  You can always start a martial arts class, but if it's too hard you can also stop and set out.  Usually such things are relatively light intensity, long endurance; but as I said, kickboxing == cardio.

But good plan anyway :)  Anything is better than sitting on your ass all day, even something like just plain old Yoga (i.e. with nothing else) will keep your joints and ligaments healthy, though you won't lose any weight or keep your heart in good shape that way.

Congrats, dude.  Riding a bike to work kicks ass, I can't imagine a sedentary life of not biking where I go.  I feel so lazy and crappy when I don't ride to work.  I don't own a car, it's the only way I get around most times.  I ride 5 or so miles each way every day of the week, rain or shine.  The only days I don't ride are when there's about a foot of snow on the ground or super icy (even though I have studded tires, they only provide you so much traction).

... in the rain?  Seriously I'm like, what do I do if it's raining?

Hmm I have to get a Thudbuster from a friend... also going to ask him what he thinks about tube protection (i.e. anti-puncture things you shove into the tires).  A few vendors make these, and I have been rolling over a lot more broken glass than I'd like lately (without incident, so far); I don't have a way to get anywhere if I blow a tube....

How old are you?
8 miles per trip and your having chest pains

25.  I've been out of it since like January... sit in my chair at work, go home, sit on the floor, go to sleep, get up, repeat.  I only made it like a mile before I was struggling.

My heart's fine.  As long as I don't pass out I'll be okay.  The first time I joined a martial arts dojo I somehow ended up starting on a night when the silat guru decided to do some intensive warm-ups for 15 minutes and had serious arrhythmia, which was ...interesting.  (I collapsed)  The damn thing hasn't actually died on me yet, so I doubt it's going to.

... yeah I probably should have sat that one out.  But hell, I wasn't any worse off than the guys who have been there for 8 years (Guru tries to push us enough that you simply can't build that kind of stamina; it never gets "easy", just "survivable").
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: theoman on April 11, 2011, 05:58:22 pm
I don't own a car, it's the only way I get around most times.  

That's awesome, but how do you get your beer and brewing bits?
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 11, 2011, 06:10:53 pm
I go by the saying, "There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing".  Riding in the rain is no problem.  A good rain jacket and rain pants are pretty important.  What I do is wear my rain pants as my normal pants, stuff another pair in my bag, and change when I get to work.  Doesn't happen very often, so I'm okay with doing it on occasion.  Typically, I change into a button up kinda shirt when I get to work anyway just to show my boss and coworkers I care a little more about my job :)
As far as getting my brew stuff, I order the big stuff online.  I have a pretty large size messenger bag that will fit a dirty 30 of PBR in it, so it will fit quite a bit of brewing stuff like specialty grains, etc.  The place I buy that stuff from doesn't carry any bulk stuff, and has a limited amount of specialty grains, so I don't go there often.
Otherwise, I get by just fine by bike.  It's a definite lifestyle change, one I choose to live.  It makes me a little more patient, slows life down a bit because you can't just hop in your car and be somewhere in 5 minutes, it maybe takes 10 instead.  I don't mind it.  It also makes me think about what I'm doing.  Sure I can I drive to wherever, but do I really need to?  I don't feel like biking that distance right now in the rain, I'll stay home.  Simple lifestyle choice.

EDIT: Greg LeMond said once, "It never gets easier, you just go faster".  Totally true.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: euge on April 11, 2011, 06:19:09 pm
I had a couple panniers on my mountain bike. Could fit a lot of groceries in them and a back-pack for regular stuff. Weather isn't much of an impediment except high winds and heavy rain.

I hate riding in the rain. Watch out for manhole covers, railroad tracks and painted cross-walks. All will put you on the ground quicker than you can react due to their slippery nature when wet. I hate riding in the rain. :(
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 11, 2011, 06:22:18 pm
I had a couple panniers on my mountain bike. Could fit a lot of groceries in them and a back-pack for regular stuff. Weather isn't much of an impediment except high winds and heavy rain.

I hate riding in the rain. Watch out for manhole covers, railroad tracks and painted cross-walks. All will put you on the ground quicker than you can react due to their slippery nature when wet. I hate riding in the rain. :(
Those are all issues for motorcycle riders too. I hate riding my cycle in the rain. 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: weazletoe on April 11, 2011, 08:08:34 pm
As someone who's had a heart attack, allow me to say that you're an idiot.

As someone who's never had a heart attack, allow me to say that I like turtles.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 11, 2011, 08:14:06 pm
I'll second what Denny said, if you're having issues like that at the age of 25, you're either severly overweight or possibly have a hereditary issue. Do you have a family history of heart disease or anything along that line? Judging by stories I read in the paper every few months, kids either in HS or college dropping dead after exerting themselves (sporting events) had enlarged hearts... its a serious matter... it could be very likely for you... but you need to see your Dr then a cardiologist to make sure... if you feel you don't need to see a Dr, all I can say is that will be more hops/grain for me at some point...
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 11, 2011, 08:14:36 pm
and I have a turtle head poking out...
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 11, 2011, 08:23:40 pm
Otherwise, I get by just fine by bike.  It's a definite lifestyle change, one I choose to live.  It makes me a little more patient, slows life down a bit because you can't just hop in your car and be somewhere in 5 minutes, it maybe takes 10 instead.  I don't mind it.  It also makes me think about what I'm doing.  Sure I can I drive to wherever, but do I really need to?  I don't feel like biking that distance right now in the rain, I'll stay home.  Simple lifestyle choice.


I suppose so.  60 minutes to work instead of 40 by car (that includes a walk up a hill though, which takes 10; on the bike I just ride up the hill, oddly it's easy even though it's the LAST hill in a long series ???).  And this is "dead most of the way" riding, even coming downhill I ride my brakes trying to stay somewhere under 15mph (oh, yeah, I have 24 gears and hit 15 on level ground in FOURTH, wtf mate?).  On level ground I cruise around 6mph-9mph, on hills it's 3-4mph up if not a tad slower.

This is not "serious pedal-pumping."  If I'm actually pedaling more than 20% of the time, I'm not going 9mph; I'm going like 15, easy, on level ground and yes, even up gentle hills.  I just can't sustain it, don't have the stamina at all.  It's a lot more work; that bike has so very little rolling resistance though, my God it's fast.  If only the seat was more forward; but then, I'm scared enough doing 15.

TBH I spend a lot of my time pulling off the road to let cars pass, or getting hit by cars (or state-funded buses...), etc.  No kidding, 6 people bumped me on the way home the first time, and I had a bus run me right into the gutter (I was 3 inches from the curb, with one hand trailing along the side of the bus, trying to stay perfectly straight so I wouldn't hit it).  They blare their horns while approaching at full speed--without slowing down.  They go around me by moving 6 inches left in their lane.  Hell, they run stop signs--I'm right at the intersection already, and they pull through and force me to stop (I stop for signs, but if it's not an all-way stop I pass through if I have right-of-way).

Bicycles are legally considered road vehicles here.  I have to stop for traffic signs and signals and school busses, I have to ride on the right side close to the edge of the lane OR in a dedicated bike lane OR on the shoulder if the shoulder is smooth and debris-free (yeah, if it's not convenient, I'm allowed to ride in the road).  I have to have safety equipment-- a bell/horn, reflectors or lights, the only thing I don't need to have is a mirror and I'm buying one today.  I pull off the road to let cars pass, but really there's no law that says I have to yield to traffic; they kind of have to not hit me, it's in the law.

Maryland actually is a pretty crappy state; but there are laws (http://www.cpabc.org/bikebill.htm) that require bicycle lanes to be preserved by construction (bicycle lanes, sidewalks, and shoulders!), they require all public education institutions and state institutions to provide bicycle parking, and the text of the law even says "drivers of motor vehicles must exercise due care when near bicycles. (Note: Fear of being sideswiped limits full access to roads with narrow lanes.)" Maybe they should have passed House Bill 143 (http://mlis.state.md.us/2008rs/bills/hb/hb0143f.pdf)... (you gotta love Section 1-C)

Some of my coworkers are telling me to abandon bicycling because people will hit me and eventually injure me or kill me; yeah, okay, and their insurance company is going to love that one.  I try to stay out of the way of traffic, but really, it's not my fault people want to be dicks.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 11, 2011, 08:43:15 pm

Some of my coworkers are telling me to abandon bicycling because people will hit me and eventually injure me or kill me; yeah, okay, and their insurance company is going to love that one.  I try to stay out of the way of traffic, but really, it's not my fault people want to be dicks.
Don't f##king listening to those kooks.  Find alternate routes to work.  I take a longer route to work by about 2 miles, but it's low traffic and not as many stops.
It's a lifestyle, man.  You can't just give up.  Cars need to be aware of you.  Obey all traffic laws, stop signs, lights, etc.  If you see someone driving poorly, let them know about it.  If someone passes you too closely and you get a chance to catch up to them, kick their bumper.  There's NO EXCUSE for idiotic driving and disrespect towards cyclists. 
I'll leave it at that as you can tell this is a subject I'm very passionate about.  Good luck and keep riding dude.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: weazletoe on April 11, 2011, 08:48:04 pm
Man I've missed these threads!  :D
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 11, 2011, 08:58:47 pm
It's a lifestyle, man.  You can't just give up.  Cars need to be aware of you.  Obey all traffic laws, stop signs, lights, etc.  If you see someone driving poorly, let them know about it.  If someone passes you too closely and you get a chance to catch up to them, kick their bumper.  There's NO EXCUSE for idiotic driving and disrespect towards cyclists. 

Eh I'm not going to go vandalizing cars.  I mean I can't stand cyclists either, but I've never really blared my horn or passed within 3 feet (actually I find them unpredictable and on VERY agile yet rather slow road vehicles, so I give a wide berth when I pass and I pass quickly when I get the opening).  They're in my way, but they're allowed to be; hence why I'm courteous to drivers when I ride my bike.

It works both ways for me.  I'm just culture shocked finding out it doesn't work both ways for anyone else in a car I guess.   ???

I have taken the time to complain to my delegate about a certain law not being passed that would require adequate space given when passing.  Not that people actually pay attention to laws; they're just there so when someone's mirror breaks off on my elbow (the rest of me is pretty squishy) I can immediately put them on the defensive.  What I need is a rear view mirror... (what?  You thought I'd just go looking to make the rest of the world change?  Let me know how that works out for you; maybe long-term.)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 11, 2011, 09:08:23 pm
As someone who's had a heart attack, allow me to say that you're an idiot.

As someone who's never had a heart attack, allow me to say that I like turtles.

As someone who has never fed a pet turtle a bacon diet, allow me to say I'm concerned that your turtle is headed for a heart attack.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 11, 2011, 09:11:09 pm
Hearts are overrated.  They break too easily!
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: denny on April 11, 2011, 09:18:16 pm
As someone who's had a heart attack, allow me to say that you're an idiot.

As someone who's never had a heart attack, allow me to say that I like turtles.

Made my day, Barry!
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 11, 2011, 09:24:37 pm
It's a lifestyle, man.  You can't just give up.  Cars need to be aware of you.  Obey all traffic laws, stop signs, lights, etc.  If you see someone driving poorly, let them know about it.  If someone passes you too closely and you get a chance to catch up to them, kick their bumper.  There's NO EXCUSE for idiotic driving and disrespect towards cyclists. 

Eh I'm not going to go vandalizing cars.  I mean I can't stand cyclists either, but I've never really blared my horn or passed within 3 feet (actually I find them unpredictable and on VERY agile yet rather slow road vehicles, so I give a wide berth when I pass and I pass quickly when I get the opening).  They're in my way, but they're allowed to be; hence why I'm courteous to drivers when I ride my bike.

It works both ways for me.  I'm just culture shocked finding out it doesn't work both ways for anyone else in a car I guess.   ???

I have taken the time to complain to my delegate about a certain law not being passed that would require adequate space given when passing.  Not that people actually pay attention to laws; they're just there so when someone's mirror breaks off on my elbow (the rest of me is pretty squishy) I can immediately put them on the defensive.  What I need is a rear view mirror... (what?  You thought I'd just go looking to make the rest of the world change?  Let me know how that works out for you; maybe long-term.)
I'm not saying you have to break their windows or anything, just let them know you're there and you demand respect.  It's those bad cyclists that run stop signs and lights and ride unpredictably that give cyclists like me a bad name.  I'm just trying to get from point A to point B just like anyone else in a car, I want to be treated as another vehicle on the road.
People complain all the time about cyclists and how they're a nuisance and we're all "in their way" because they're ultimately more important than me.  Well, if you want me to act like a vehicle on the road, start treating me like one.  I do act like a vehicle on the road, but that's kind of what it makes me think when people complain about how cyclists don't obey any traffic laws.  It doesn't help that cars have little to no respect of cyclists.
I just don't understand the hostility that motorists have towards cyclists.  Sorry I slowed down your drive by 2 f##king seconds...jeeeezuz...
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 11, 2011, 09:29:44 pm
some cyclists break the laws, lots of folks in cars/trucks break the laws... its all about entitlement, everyone thinks they are entitled... makes for alot of grumpy people... I will say that you should remember, you're on a bicycle and they are in a car... ultimately they have right of way. The car will always win, not worth your life or getting hurt/maimed.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: euge on April 11, 2011, 10:13:45 pm
Obey traffic laws or they might just use this on you:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_7QgdMVFUuKs/TaN7T2JrCJI/AAAAAAAAAFs/JsSZodPy-sY/s400/2011-04-11%2016.05.59.jpg?source=mog&hl=en&gl=us)

Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: weazletoe on April 11, 2011, 10:19:29 pm
As someone who has never fed a pet turtle a bacon diet, allow me to say I'm concerned that your turtle is headed for a heart attack.

 That did cross my mind when I began the project, but then I decided it would serve two purposes...

 1. Once turtle has entered cardiac arrest, I will know he has "marinated" long enough.

 2. It will save me from having to slaughter him.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: SwashBuckling Drunk on April 11, 2011, 10:38:30 pm
There are A LOT of bicyclists around Portland.  Its amazing to see all the bike commuters on the city streets.  Unfortunately, cars hitting bicycles is always on the news here despite significant bike trails.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 12:22:49 pm
some cyclists break the laws, lots of folks in cars/trucks break the laws... its all about entitlement, everyone thinks they are entitled... makes for alot of grumpy people... I will say that you should remember, you're on a bicycle and they are in a car... ultimately they have right of way. The car will always win, not worth your life or getting hurt/maimed.

And the auto drivers pay most of the street taxes, so IMO they definitely have the right of way, not to mention they can keep up with the posted speeds.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: phillamb168 on April 12, 2011, 12:49:58 pm
And the auto drivers pay most of the street taxes, so IMO they definitely have the right of way, not to mention they can keep up with the posted speeds.

This logic would imply that cars should have ultimate right of way over pedestrians as well, and if you get hit by a car, it's your fault for not paying attention on a road which you were paying less for.

This logic fails miserably when you ask yourself, 'what if the cyclist were also a driver? (he pays the same taxes/fees you do)' or 'what if the driver were from a different state or country? (he's outside the jurisdiction of the local tax body and therefore does not pay for the road he is using - should he yield to local drivers?)' Furthermore it fails morally when you imply that one person has more rights than another because of the amount they pay for something.

Being in the state of driving a car does not grant you extra privileges other than going faster than others. What it does do is impose on you additional responsibilities, such as yielding to those sharing the same piece of pavement who are much smaller, more easily susceptible to catastrophic damage, and incapable of going faster without harming themselves or others.

Finis lecture.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 01:04:03 pm
I know there are bike lanes and that's great, but the main roads are built for motorized vehicles. Now if they want to start truly enforcing the laws and citing bike riders for running lights, impairing flow, etc. then I'm all for it. I think that bike riders on single lane roads, without shoulders, should be required to pull off the road every 5 minutes or so and let the traffic behind them pass.  If they are riding side by side, taking up an entire lane and NOT driving the speed limit, they should be ticketed. 

As for the taxes, yes, most bike riders are probably auto drives as well, but when they're on the road, they aren't using gas which is taxed to pay for the roads. As for pedestrians, they are capable of getting far off of the road, so the don't effect traffic flow, in most cases.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: phillamb168 on April 12, 2011, 01:45:53 pm
I know there are bike lanes and that's great, but the main roads are built for motorized vehicles. Now if they want to start truly enforcing the laws and citing bike riders for running lights, impairing flow, etc. then I'm all for it. I think that bike riders on single lane roads, without shoulders, should be required to pull off the road every 5 minutes or so and let the traffic behind them pass.  If they are riding side by side, taking up an entire lane and NOT driving the speed limit, they should be ticketed. 

As for the taxes, yes, most bike riders are probably auto drives as well, but when they're on the road, they aren't using gas which is taxed to pay for the roads. As for pedestrians, they are capable of getting far off of the road, so the don't effect traffic flow, in most cases.

In many areas, especially rural, pedestrians have no choice but to walk on the road. As a kid who grew up on 35 acres I can tell you that sidewalks are a wonderful thing -if they exist-. Where I grew up we had ditches on the sides of the road, and you didn't want to go down there. There's also the problem of sidewalk maintenance - if cities fixed up sidewalks at the same rate as roads, well that'd be great.

Re bike riders on single lane roads without shoulders, speaking from experience on both sides (the road by my house has no shoulders for a large portion of the way) I can say that most of those roads are low-traffic and it's easy to pass the bikes just like you'd pass a car, plenty of room in the other lane for the 5 seconds it takes to pass.

--

Of course, I'm not arguing bikes should be on highways. But if we're talking residential or semi-residential roads, I think some sharing should be done. Speed limits are typically low enough in those areas that you're not going to be late to work if you have to slow down for a minute or two to pass a bike.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: punatic on April 12, 2011, 02:29:30 pm
I ride my bike 12.6 miles every day.  It takes 45 minutes to cover that distance.  The days that I don't ride I feel like s--t.

The only turtles we have here are honu.  If you get caught eating those you'll be doing hard time in the big house.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 12, 2011, 02:33:14 pm
The bike riders who really irk me and almost make me WANT to run them off the road are the ones who always want to filter to the very front of traffic at every stop light, but then take off like a grandma on Sunday when the light changes and ride right in the middle of the damn lane!

Granted, some of the 2-lane roads in Seattle are actually painted to allow the full lane as a 'bike' lane, but c'mon!  If you're gonna ride right out in the middle and hold up EVERYBODY, you could as least make a minmal effort to keep up a decent speed. 

Some of these morons get, litereally, RIGHT in front of me - dead center on my front bumper, while I'm waiting at the light.  It just makes me wanna gun it & run their stupid asses down. 

[/rant]  lol
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 02:41:49 pm
The bike riders who really irk me and almost make me WANT to run them off the road are the ones who always want to filter to the very front of traffic at every stop light, but then take off like a grandma on Sunday when the light changes and right right in the middle of the damn lane!

Granted, some of the 2-lane roads in Seattle are actually painted to allow the full lane as a 'bike' lane, but c'mon!  If you're gonna ride right out in the middle and hold up EVERYBODY, you could as least make a minmal effort to keep up a decent speed. 

Some of these morons get, litereall, RIGHT in front of me - dead center on my front bumper, while I'm waiting at the light.  It just makes me wanna gun it & run their stupid asses down. 

[/rant]  lol



And these would be the very ones I'm referring to. Oh, and for those of you that like to flip me off, please remember that what I'm driving is much bigger than you.  Do you really want to piss me off? ;)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: phillamb168 on April 12, 2011, 02:47:59 pm
I should note, all of my previous comments were made under the assumption that both driver and bicyclist are rational beings. My walks along the Brooklyn Bridge have proven to me that not all cyclists are rational.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 12, 2011, 02:53:08 pm
I should note, all of my previous comments were made under the assumption that both driver and bicyclist are rational beings. My walks along the Brooklyn Bridge have proven to me that not all cyclists are rational.

From what I've heard, most New Yorkers are NOT very rational.  ;)  lol
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 12, 2011, 03:10:52 pm
some cyclists break the laws, lots of folks in cars/trucks break the laws... its all about entitlement, everyone thinks they are entitled... makes for alot of grumpy people... I will say that you should remember, you're on a bicycle and they are in a car... ultimately they have right of way. The car will always win, not worth your life or getting hurt/maimed.

And the auto drivers pay most of the street taxes, so IMO they definitely have the right of way, not to mention they can keep up with the posted speeds.
NOT true.  The majority of the taxes that go towards the roads everyone pays in state and local taxes.  Don't even start with that motorist entitlement bulls***!
And I suppose you're going to say that those who rent don't pay any taxes towards schools too huh?  Which comes from property taxes. 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 12, 2011, 03:13:29 pm
some cyclists break the laws, lots of folks in cars/trucks break the laws... its all about entitlement, everyone thinks they are entitled... makes for alot of grumpy people... I will say that you should remember, you're on a bicycle and they are in a car... ultimately they have right of way. The car will always win, not worth your life or getting hurt/maimed.

And the auto drivers pay most of the street taxes, so IMO they definitely have the right of way, not to mention they can keep up with the posted speeds.
NOT true.  The majority of the taxes that go towards the street everyone pays in federal taxes.  Don't even start with that motorist entitlement bulls***!

It depends on the state.  Out here in the West, much of our car registration fees go towards both road improvements & public transit improvements (i.e. Drivers are paying to improve the roads & the public transit options for non-drivers). 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 12, 2011, 03:15:19 pm
some cyclists break the laws, lots of folks in cars/trucks break the laws... its all about entitlement, everyone thinks they are entitled... makes for alot of grumpy people... I will say that you should remember, you're on a bicycle and they are in a car... ultimately they have right of way. The car will always win, not worth your life or getting hurt/maimed.

And the auto drivers pay most of the street taxes, so IMO they definitely have the right of way, not to mention they can keep up with the posted speeds.
NOT true.  The majority of the taxes that go towards the street everyone pays in federal taxes.  Don't even start with that motorist entitlement bulls***!

It depends on the state.  Out here in the West, much of our car registration fees go towards both road improvements & public transit improvements (i.e. Drivers are paying to improve the roads & the public transit options for non-drivers). 
Damn it, you responded before I could edit my statement.  It's not federal taxes that I meant, but state and local taxes that go towards roads, etc.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 12, 2011, 03:49:05 pm
The bike riders who really irk me and almost make me WANT to run them off the road are the ones who always want to filter to the very front of traffic at every stop light, but then take off like a grandma on Sunday when the light changes and right right in the middle of the damn lane!

Granted, some of the 2-lane roads in Seattle are actually painted to allow the full lane as a 'bike' lane, but c'mon!  If you're gonna ride right out in the middle and hold up EVERYBODY, you could as least make a minmal effort to keep up a decent speed. 

Some of these morons get, litereall, RIGHT in front of me - dead center on my front bumper, while I'm waiting at the light.  It just makes me wanna gun it & run their stupid asses down. 

[/rant]  lol



And these would be the very ones I'm referring to. Oh, and for those of you that like to flip me off, please remember that what I'm driving is much bigger than you.  Do you really want to piss me off? ;)

Do you really want to go to prison?  ::)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 03:58:32 pm
The bike riders who really irk me and almost make me WANT to run them off the road are the ones who always want to filter to the very front of traffic at every stop light, but then take off like a grandma on Sunday when the light changes and right right in the middle of the damn lane!

Granted, some of the 2-lane roads in Seattle are actually painted to allow the full lane as a 'bike' lane, but c'mon!  If you're gonna ride right out in the middle and hold up EVERYBODY, you could as least make a minmal effort to keep up a decent speed. 

Some of these morons get, litereall, RIGHT in front of me - dead center on my front bumper, while I'm waiting at the light.  It just makes me wanna gun it & run their stupid asses down. 

[/rant]  lol



And these would be the very ones I'm referring to. Oh, and for those of you that like to flip me off, please remember that what I'm driving is much bigger than you.  Do you really want to piss me off? ;)

Do you really want to go to prison?  ::)

Actually, flipping someone off is considered road rage and they should be the ones going to jail. Cyclists get way too much leeway with the law. Just because they don't have a motor under them doesn't mean that they should get preferential treatment.That includes DUI.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 12, 2011, 04:04:34 pm
The bike riders who really irk me and almost make me WANT to run them off the road are the ones who always want to filter to the very front of traffic at every stop light, but then take off like a grandma on Sunday when the light changes and right right in the middle of the damn lane!

Granted, some of the 2-lane roads in Seattle are actually painted to allow the full lane as a 'bike' lane, but c'mon!  If you're gonna ride right out in the middle and hold up EVERYBODY, you could as least make a minmal effort to keep up a decent speed. 

Some of these morons get, litereall, RIGHT in front of me - dead center on my front bumper, while I'm waiting at the light.  It just makes me wanna gun it & run their stupid asses down. 

[/rant]  lol



And these would be the very ones I'm referring to. Oh, and for those of you that like to flip me off, please remember that what I'm driving is much bigger than you.  Do you really want to piss me off? ;)

Do you really want to go to prison?  ::)

Actually, flipping someone off is considered road rage and they should be the ones going to jail. Cyclists get way too much leeway with the law. Just because they don't have a motor under them doesn't mean that they should get preferential treatment.That includes DUI.

Agreed - and I've seen some extremely damn drunk bikers around here. 

Most bikers around here that I see (not all but most) seem to ignore the basic rules of the road when they become inconvenient:
-They ignore stop signs
-They ignore stop lights
-They cut off cars & then get pissed when the car they just cut off is/gets 'too close' to them
-They ride drunk as hell
-They sometimes purposely try to annoy drivers by blocking them whenever possible, riding purposely very slow in the middle of the lane, block a LONG line of cars in a right turn only lane from making their turn until the light changes & the bike moves, etc. etc. 

I wouldn't mind 'sharing the road' with them so much if they actually followed the rules of the road.  Most (or at least MANY of them) seem not to. 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 04:14:25 pm
Quote
Agreed - and I've seen some extremely damn drunk bikers around here. 

Most bikers around here that I see (not all but most) seem to ignore the basic rules of the road when they become inconvenient:
-They ignore stop signs
-They ignore stop lights
-They cut off cars & then get pissed when the car they just cut off is/gets 'too close' to them
-They ride drunk as hell
-They sometimes purposely try to annoy drivers by blocking them whenever possible, riding purposely very slow in the middle of the lane, block a LONG line of cars in a right turn only lane from making their turn until the light changes & the bike moves, etc. etc. 

I wouldn't mind 'sharing the road' with them so much if they actually followed the rules of the road.  Most (or at least MANY of them) seem not to. 

I agree. I have no problem sharing the road with them, but they should follow all of the same laws I do.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 12, 2011, 04:25:49 pm

Actually, flipping someone off is considered road rage and they should be the ones going to jail. Cyclists get way too much leeway with the law. Just because they don't have a motor under them doesn't mean that they should get preferential treatment.That includes DUI.

Dude, are you f##king serious?  I can't kill somebody while intoxicated on my bike like you can in your 2000 pound coffin.  I'm only a danger to myself, that does not warrant the extreme case of giving me a DUI.  Use some logic, it'll help you.
Besides, riding a bike under the influence is much different than driving.  While biking, you're engaging your body, it forces you to stay aware.  But in a car, you're just sitting there on your ass doing nothing, it's so easy to just fall asleep or pass out.
I agree that cyclists really do need to follow the traffic laws, and I do.  I think just because someone is slower than you and doesn't have a motor, doesn't mean you need to get all high and mighty because you're in a big ass car.  It's called a SPEED LIMIT, not a SPEED MANDATE.  Again, logic.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: dbeechum on April 12, 2011, 04:28:44 pm
Here in CA it is possible to get a DUI for riding a bike (or a horse for that matter) I know we're not the only state that does that. I had a friend who got a DUI because he was walking his motorcycle home on the sidewalk. No power, no nothing, just feets moving the wheels.

Cops gave him a DUI because he was operating a motor vehicle. blah.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 12, 2011, 04:30:28 pm
Here in CA it is possible to get a DUI for riding a bike (or a horse for that matter) I know we're not the only state that does that. I had a friend who got a DUI because he was walking his motorcycle home on the sidewalk. No power, no nothing, just feets moving the wheels.

Cops gave him a DUI because he was operating a motor vehicle. blah.
Unjust, unfair.  Thanks, coppers.  Protecting and Serving, my ass.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 12, 2011, 04:32:26 pm
Here in CA it is possible to get a DUI for riding a bike (or a horse for that matter) I know we're not the only state that does that. I had a friend who got a DUI because he was walking his motorcycle home on the sidewalk. No power, no nothing, just feets moving the wheels.

Cops gave him a DUI because he was operating a motor vehicle. blah.

Wow.  That's a load of crap.  He should have challenged it.  'Operating' a motor vehicle implies that the motor vehicle is in operation (i.e. Turned on). 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: phillamb168 on April 12, 2011, 04:36:22 pm
Here in CA it is possible to get a DUI for riding a bike (or a horse for that matter) I know we're not the only state that does that. I had a friend who got a DUI because he was walking his motorcycle home on the sidewalk. No power, no nothing, just feets moving the wheels.

Cops gave him a DUI because he was operating a motor vehicle. blah.

Wow.  That's a load of crap.  He should have challenged it.  'Operating' a motor vehicle implies that the motor vehicle is in operation (i.e. Turned on). 

As far as DUIs go, I could understand getting one if you're really blitzed and on a bike. If you don't wanna call it DUI then call it reckless public endangerment and public intox. Either way you don't need to be on a bike.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 12, 2011, 04:40:01 pm
you can get a DUI for just sitting in your vehicle, keys in your pocket, sleeping...sometimes even if you're in the backseat.... its all about making $$ and 'trying' to send a msg to the public.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Pinski on April 12, 2011, 04:44:11 pm
you can get a DUI for just sitting in your vehicle, keys in your pocket, sleeping...sometimes even if you're in the backseat.... its all about making $$ and 'trying' to send a msg to the public.
Oh man, don't get me going on this one.... I need to get back to work. 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 04:44:37 pm
Here in CA it is possible to get a DUI for riding a bike (or a horse for that matter) I know we're not the only state that does that. I had a friend who got a DUI because he was walking his motorcycle home on the sidewalk. No power, no nothing, just feets moving the wheels.

Cops gave him a DUI because he was operating a motor vehicle. blah.

WOW that's just wrong on so many levels. Really makes you want to do the right thing when you've been drinking. As said, it's not about upholding the law, it's about making money.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 12, 2011, 04:54:53 pm
you can get a DUI for just sitting in your vehicle, keys in your pocket, sleeping...sometimes even if you're in the backseat.... its all about making $$ and 'trying' to send a msg to the public.

The message that would send me:

If you're too drunk to drive, drive anyway.  You have a chance of getting home.  DON'T take a nap in your car.  Some asshole cop could give you a DUI for trying to be responsible & safe. 


This is the reasoning cops don't understand & why it's so stupid for them to give out DUI's in situations like that. 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 12, 2011, 05:01:55 pm

Actually, flipping someone off is considered road rage and they should be the ones going to jail. Cyclists get way too much leeway with the law. Just because they don't have a motor under them doesn't mean that they should get preferential treatment.That includes DUI.

Dude, are you f##king serious?  I can't kill somebody while intoxicated on my bike like you can in your 2000 pound coffin.  I'm only a danger to myself, that does not warrant the extreme case of giving me a DUI.  Use some logic, it'll help you.
Besides, riding a bike under the influence is much different than driving.  While biking, you're engaging your body, it forces you to stay aware.  But in a car, you're just sitting there on your ass doing nothing, it's so easy to just fall asleep or pass out.
I agree that cyclists really do need to follow the traffic laws, and I do.  I think just because someone is slower than you and doesn't have a motor, doesn't mean you need to get all high and mighty because you're in a big ass car.  It's called a SPEED LIMIT, not a SPEED MANDATE.  Again, logic.

+1 It appears that the one with the "rage" problem is ccarlson.

edit: for clarity
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 05:10:25 pm

Actually, flipping someone off is considered road rage and they should be the ones going to jail. Cyclists get way too much leeway with the law. Just because they don't have a motor under them doesn't mean that they should get preferential treatment.That includes DUI.

Dude, are you f##king serious?  I can't kill somebody while intoxicated on my bike like you can in your 2000 pound coffin.  I'm only a danger to myself, that does not warrant the extreme case of giving me a DUI.  Use some logic, it'll help you.
Besides, riding a bike under the influence is much different than driving.  While biking, you're engaging your body, it forces you to stay aware.  But in a car, you're just sitting there on your ass doing nothing, it's so easy to just fall asleep or pass out.
I agree that cyclists really do need to follow the traffic laws, and I do.  I think just because someone is slower than you and doesn't have a motor, doesn't mean you need to get all high and mighty because you're in a big ass car.  It's called a SPEED LIMIT, not a SPEED MANDATE.  Again, logic.

If you don't think you can hurt/kill someone on a bike you must be riding around with training wheels on. Not only that but if you're riding drunk, and swerve into oncoming traffic, you could easily cause an accident. I can't believe that you think bicycles are so safe under all circumstances. However, the real question is why do you think bicyclists should be above the law when it comes to drinking? The roads were designed for motorists and are meant to be traveled at higher speeds.

"Dude, are you f##king serious?" With that said, I don't need to address the rage comment.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 12, 2011, 05:30:46 pm

+1 It appears that the one with the "rage" problem is the poster.
I don't bend over and take it like bicyclists are expected to.  I'm not saying a bicyclist shouldn't be treated equally, but a bicycle isn't the same as a car.  Giving someone a DUI on a bike is pointless anyway, especially if they don't own a car, like myself.  What's it going to prove?
The point of my rage is to call the attention of motorists that cyclists should be treated as another vehicle on the road.  I shouldn't have to yield to you because you're larger than I am.  I obey the traffic laws, I mind my own business, I am trying to get from point A to point B, just like you.  Treat me with respect and I shall treat you with respect.  End of argument. 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 05:37:08 pm
Quote
The point of my rage is to call the attention of motorists that cyclists should be treated as another vehicle on the road.  I shouldn't have to yield to you because you're larger than I am. 

So, you should be able to run a yield or stop sign, pull out in front of me while you're intoxicated and I should have to pay for your medical expenses, bike repair and possibly a traffic fine? I don't get that.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluesman on April 12, 2011, 05:43:11 pm
Folks...let's keep our emotions in check and stay focused on the topic at hand.

If we can't be respectful the thread will be locked.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 12, 2011, 05:49:21 pm
Sorry, I'll jump out of the thread. The thought of an exploding heart kind makes me want to lose my lunch anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: nicneufeld on April 12, 2011, 06:10:40 pm
This all reminds me of a lovely little line from Douglas Adams' Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul:

Quote
He stepped out on to the street, where a passing eagle swooped out of the sky at him, nearly forcing him into the path of a cyclist, who cursed and swore at him from a moral high ground that cyclists alone seem able to inhabit.


Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 12, 2011, 06:26:39 pm
Quote
The point of my rage is to call the attention of motorists that cyclists should be treated as another vehicle on the road.  I shouldn't have to yield to you because you're larger than I am. 

So, you should be able to run a yield or stop sign, pull out in front of me while you're intoxicated and I should have to pay for your medical expenses, bike repair and possibly a traffic fine? I don't get that.
I did not say this AT ALL.  Like I said, I obey traffic laws and signs even when I'm riding home from the bar.  Having said that, let me say this: stop lights don't often change for cyclists, especially at night, as we aren't heavy enough to trigger the light to change.  At night, I've waited for quite a while before to go, noticing there's no cars coming from the other direction.  So, at night I treat the stop light as a stop sign, typically, if it's a low traffic stop light.  The busier intersections, the lights are timed, so it's not a big deal.  I just want acceptance, and it's not going to happen if I don't stand up and take a stand for my rights.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 12, 2011, 10:23:00 pm
I accept you. I embrace you. I understand you. I don't judge.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: tubercle on April 13, 2011, 12:53:17 am
Tubercle has been known to recognize a picture of a bicycle 2 out of 3 times.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: tygo on April 13, 2011, 01:22:15 am
I accept you. I embrace you. I understand you. I don't judge.

And then I mow you down with my car when you get in my way  ;D

Just kidding.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: gmac on April 13, 2011, 02:15:13 am
This all reminds me of a lovely little line from Douglas Adams' Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul:

Quote
He stepped out on to the street, where a passing eagle swooped out of the sky at him, nearly forcing him into the path of a cyclist, who cursed and swore at him from a moral high ground that cyclists alone seem able to inhabit.



Great book.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Slowbrew on April 13, 2011, 03:22:09 pm
Quote
The point of my rage is to call the attention of motorists that cyclists should be treated as another vehicle on the road.  I shouldn't have to yield to you because you're larger than I am. 

So, you should be able to run a yield or stop sign, pull out in front of me while you're intoxicated and I should have to pay for your medical expenses, bike repair and possibly a traffic fine? I don't get that.
I did not say this AT ALL.  Like I said, I obey traffic laws and signs even when I'm riding home from the bar.  Having said that, let me say this: stop lights don't often change for cyclists, especially at night, as we aren't heavy enough to trigger the light to change.  At night, I've waited for quite a while before to go, noticing there's no cars coming from the other direction.  So, at night I treat the stop light as a stop sign, typically, if it's a low traffic stop light.  The busier intersections, the lights are timed, so it's not a big deal.  I just want acceptance, and it's not going to happen if I don't stand up and take a stand for my rights.

I don't really think there is anger being directed at you personally, at least not by me.  That being said; There have been so many times when a person on a bike rides all the way up to a red light between the 2 lanes of traffic that are stopped and then blames the car at the front of the line for not seeing them that people start to attribute "bicyclist = idiot".  I used to ride a lot for recreation and saw this stuff all the time. 

Kudos to you for riding and following the law.  Now if all the riders (and I'm talking about some on motorcycles too here) would remember they share the road with cars too, everyone would be better off. 

It would also help if all the drivers in Des Moines would remember that red means you are now stopped, not red means 3 cars going too fast still go through, fewer really bad accidents would happen.  One of my biggest reasons for not getting back on my bike (right after laziness) is drivers in Des Mines will kill you and never even notice they ran over you.

Paul
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 13, 2011, 07:51:54 pm


I don't really think there is anger being directed at you personally, at least not by me.  That being said; There have been so many times when a person on a bike rides all the way up to a red light between the 2 lanes of traffic that are stopped and then blames the car at the front of the line for not seeing them that people start to attribute "bicyclist = idiot".  I used to ride a lot for recreation and saw this stuff all the time. 

Kudos to you for riding and following the law.  Now if all the riders (and I'm talking about some on motorcycles too here) would remember they share the road with cars too, everyone would be better off. 

It would also help if all the drivers in Des Moines would remember that red means you are now stopped, not red means 3 cars going too fast still go through, fewer really bad accidents would happen.  One of my biggest reasons for not getting back on my bike (right after laziness) is drivers in Des Mines will kill you and never even notice they ran over you.

Paul
This is what I'm saying though; those bad cyclists give people like me look bad.  And because people have this image of "all cyclists break the law" in their heads, they immediately think that when they see me riding, minding my own business, following the rules of the road, etc. and decide to treat me like s*** without any basis of whether I'm a bad cyclist or not.  I hate it.  This is why I'm so forceful in getting my point of view across.  Acceptance is all I want. 
For as many bad cyclists that are out there, there are multitudes more of bad drivers.  I see multiple bad drivers every single day.  Impatient people that just HAVE to be first and get to where they're going as fast as possible, like it's the end of the world if they don't.  In turn, it makes them look like idiots and makes good drivers look bad. 
I think it's funny that often times the people that give me the most s*** on the road are the worst drivers.  Oh the irony...they don't know just how stupid they are.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Slowbrew on April 13, 2011, 08:54:34 pm
I agree with you completely.

I am currently the proud parent of a 17 year old driver, a 15 year old soon to be driver and a 13 year soon to be learning driver (and people wonder why I drink).  It's down right terrifying to think I'm sending them out in the mess we call the open road.

Ride on!  I'll try to not let any of my kids run you over.   :)

Paul
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 13, 2011, 08:56:29 pm

Most bikers around here that I see (not all but most) seem to ignore the basic rules of the road when they become inconvenient:
-They ignore stop signs
-They ignore stop lights
-They cut off cars & then get pissed when the car they just cut off is/gets 'too close' to them
-They ride drunk as hell
-They sometimes purposely try to annoy drivers by blocking them whenever possible, riding purposely very slow in the middle of the lane, block a LONG line of cars in a right turn only lane from making their turn until the light changes & the bike moves, etc. etc. 



http://www.mva.maryland.gov/Driver-Safety/Bicycle/default.htm

Quote
By Maryland law, bicycles are vehicles.  Bicyclists are authorized users of the roadway, and bicyclists have the same rights-of-way and the same duty to obey all traffic signals as motorists. But bicycles are less visible, quieter, and don’t have a protective barrier around them. Motorists should drive carefully near bicyclists; even a slight mistake can result in serious injury or even death.

Interesting, laws I thought got shot down were passed.

Also,

Quote
The bicycle has the right of way when the motor vehicle is making a turn, and you must yield to bicycle.

Interesting.  This is annoying though, because bicycles may (should and must, legally) pass on the right, i.e. they go straight to the right of a right turn lane(!).  Sometimes, motorists just don't see you.  I have full rights to blissfully pass by you without a thought; I do in fact do this quite a bit, but only cautiously, allowing the drivers to turn or making sure they're going straight across the road before proceeding, because they just might not see me.

Though, for consideration, a bicyclist is in roughly the same position as a pedestrian at the point of collision into a bicycle:  pedestrian crossing the crosswalk has right of way, and a right turn goes into the pedestrian.  However, the bicycle is faster, and approaching: the bicycle may be cut off by the motor vehicle, and actually hit the side of the car.  Bicycle may not be visible to the driver when the driver turns.  Thus the bicycle should always be prepared to yield (this is just like a car:  always have control of your vehicle, be prepared to respond to stupidity around you).

Quote
Maryland's traffic laws apply to bicycles and motor scooters. (TR § 21-1202)

Stop signs, traffic lights, etc.  I've tried to bypass this, but no luck:  when I'm stopped at red, pedestrian traffic is stopped at "Do Not Walk," and it's not legal for me to walk across the street.  So I can't get off and walk through the light, something I'd be ticketed for without a bicycle.

Still, as a bicycle, with right of way, operating under the traffic laws, when I approach an intersection where I have no stop sign I have the right to proceed without stopping.  Other vehicles routinely proceed after stopping, when they are supposed to yield to road traffic.  They're breaking the law.  This happens to me a lot going downhill at dangerous speeds; the most effective way to stop a bicycle is by locking up the front brake just enough to lift pressure off the back wheel, and doing this suddenly as a panic maneuver going down hill is excellent... if you're skilled enough.  I'm not, and can easily lose control this way (it's relatively easy to keep control, basically just hold on to the handlebars tight and don't slide forward).  Not cool.

(By the way, some folks have suggested disabling the front brakes on bicycles and motorcycles in the past; if you're wondering about this, here's the technical details.  Front brakes stop you faster because, even under rear braking, the bicycle's center of mass lurches forward and lifts the rear wheel slightly.  Combining both brakes won't stop you faster; but using the rear brake and the front brake in tandem can cause a bicycle to fishtail, something mine does regularly because I do this often.  The correct answer is to put on a helmet, find a parking lot, and learn to brake properly.)

Cyclists have a lot of rules about where they're supposed to ride.  They're also supposed to avoid impeding traffic, as any motor vehicle; even slow-moving vehicles (with the flashing triangle sign) on narrow roads are supposed to pull off to allow traffic to pass when possible (don't drive these on high-traffic, narrow, one-lane roads or the police will be angry).  At times I will ride out further in the lane than I should, mainly because I'm going the actual speed limit or a few mph faster (yes I do that) and it's hard to keep precise enough control (there's no bike lane or shoulder on these roads); this of course creates a traffic back-up behind me, since people go 40-50mph on 25mph back roads, but I actually fail to care. When I have to slow down (I'm not skilled enough to take those curves and they're blind anyway), I let them pass.  I have similar problems driving a car on that road, and have witnessed (and almost participated in) some near-fatal accidents from people trying to pass my car in the opposing lane of traffic around a blind hairpin curve (you wouldn't believe the amount of stupidity that goes into this).
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: euge on April 13, 2011, 09:26:42 pm
You can create a monster just by taking a perfectly rational person and put him behind the wheel of a car.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 13, 2011, 09:32:24 pm
You can create a monster just by taking a perfectly rational person and put him behind the wheel of a car.

You mean a person who rationalizes that their car is theirs, thus personal space, thus the road is personal space, and thus theirs as well?
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 13, 2011, 09:35:50 pm
"Combining both brakes won't stop you faster"  Yeah, WRONG.  ::)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Slowbrew on April 13, 2011, 09:42:47 pm
You can create a monster just by taking a perfectly rational person and put him behind the wheel of a car.

You mean a person who rationalizes that their car is theirs, thus personal space, thus the road is personal space, and thus theirs as well?

Of course its theirs.  During rush hour its their makeup counter, their breakfast table, their reading room and of course their personal phone booth.   ;D

Paul
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: euge on April 13, 2011, 09:48:51 pm
You can create a monster just by taking a perfectly rational person and put him behind the wheel of a car.

You mean a person who rationalizes that their car is theirs, thus personal space, thus the road is personal space, and thus theirs as well?

That's a good point. Also, perhaps that our brain and central nervous system wasn't developed to control something that big. Therefore the act pf operating a vehicle places a tremendous amount of stress on mental capacities. This results in a side-effect of fear and rage.

Conversely, I believe it is a testament of how amazing humans are that we can conceive and operate vehicles at all.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: SwashBuckling Drunk on April 13, 2011, 10:25:07 pm
Wow, now I know why there are so many cars hitting bikes around Portland.  What a lot of attitudes (bike people AND car people).

I haven't done a lot of street bicycling, but I DID ride a motorcycle for years.  I always drove very defensively in fear of getting hit by a car.  I do see quite a few cyclists that aren't as cautious as they could be.  Of course, many car drivers are just the same.  Having the right of way means squat when you're on a bike and get smashed by a car.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: nicneufeld on April 14, 2011, 03:04:53 am
Anybody remember this classic from their youth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk

Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 14, 2011, 03:32:30 am
Great cartoon. I'm going to mount a set of cross hairs on my hood, so I don't miss the cyclists.  ;D
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: punatic on April 14, 2011, 03:45:54 am
Anybody remember this classic from their youth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk



OK - you've got me...  Yes, I was one of the original guys in the Goofy costume at WDW in the early 70s.

As it happens, we are having our 40th year Zoo Crew reunion in Orlando the weekend before NHC '11 in San Diego.

I'm not overly excited about traveling to the mainland anymore, but these two events are exerting a strong pull.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: a10t2 on April 14, 2011, 07:02:00 am
Conversely, I believe it is a testament of how amazing humans are that we can conceive and operate vehicles at all.

If you can conceive a vehicle, then that really *is* amazing. ;D
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: euge on April 14, 2011, 07:29:21 am
Conversely, I believe it is a testament of how amazing humans are that we can conceive and operate vehicles at all.

If you can conceive a vehicle, then that really *is* amazing. ;D

Exactly! ;D

BTW my motorcycle riding has improved my car-operating skills. Anyone feel the same?
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 14, 2011, 12:56:08 pm
Conversely, I believe it is a testament of how amazing humans are that we can conceive and operate vehicles at all.

If you can conceive a vehicle, then that really *is* amazing. ;D

Exactly! ;D

BTW my motorcycle riding has improved my car-operating skills. Anyone feel the same?

Absolutely.  IMO, motorcycle riding teaches you the perfect combination of defensive & agressive driving - in other words, knowing when to play things cautious/safe and when to crank the throttle to get yourself up/ahead/away-from/out of a potentially dangerous situation. 

I wish Spring would finally arrive in the northwest (our high today is expected to be 48-49 & rainy), I haven't had my bike out yet this year.  :( 
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 14, 2011, 02:14:18 pm

Absolutely.  IMO, motorcycle riding teaches you the perfect combination of defensive & agressive driving - in other words, knowing when to play things cautious/safe and when to crank the throttle to get yourself up/ahead/away-from/out of a potentially dangerous situation. 


That's called a "Trial by Fire."  Learn or die.

"Combining both brakes won't stop you faster"  Yeah, WRONG.  ::)

Only wrong if you can somehow keep the rear wheel fully seated on the ground under MAXIMUM braking force.  I don't mean "Touching but gliding," I mean "Firmly planted."  If what is called a "stoppie" is physically possible, then using only the front brake in the most efficient way possible provides 100% of the maximum stopping power.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Stoppie.jpg/677px-Stoppie.jpg)

You have this kind of braking force up front.  What can the rear wheel possibly add?  The above is too much braking; use less front braking force, just enough to make the rear wheel glide over the surface of the road.

The maximum braking force of the front wheel on an upright bicycle (not motorcycle) is about 0.5g (i.e. 4.9 m/s^2 or 16ft/s^2), while the maximum braking force of the rear wheel alone is 0.1g (i.e. 0.981m/s^2 or 3.2ft/s^2).  The more force applied up front, the more weight comes off the rear wheel, thus the less friction produced by stopping the rear wheel (friction is friction coefficient times perpendicular force), thus at i.e. 0.4g you have absolutely no more than 0.02g stopping force in the back, and 0.42 is less than 0.5.  Be mindful you can lift the rear wheel by the 0.5 mark, so you haven't maximized front brake efficiency until you've eliminated rear wheel braking force entirely.  Maximum stopping force is at roughly 11% slippage in any condition, but the fact that the wheel is able to deadstop and flip the bike over it if the rider slides forward (if you push on the handlebars and stay seated, this likely won't happen) indicates that the front wheel is NOT skidding (at which point there is little braking force).

In various situations, front braking is undesirable.  On bumpy terrain (ill-maintained roads etc), you can throw the bike either forward or in a random direction (loss of control); use partial rear braking.  On long descents down huge hills you can overheat a wheel, inflating a tube beyond maximum pressure and causing a blow; modulate the brakes between front and back to allow heat radiation.  Of course if the front wheel is blown, stop with the rear.  In slippery conditions, more control can be had with some rear braking, sometimes; more braking force can usually be had due to lack of friction limiting efficiency to a point that the rear will not lift off the ground (at least not as soon), and indeed it's the total force that causes slippage (thus the rear wheel can reach more of its maximum braking power than the front wheel, since its maximum braking force is lower).

Motorcycles are not bicycles.  Motorcycles work exactly the same as bicycles; however, they are larger, heavier, faster, have a better contact patch with the ground, etc.  Sam exact dynamics, but the numbers we're using here are much different.  Launching a motorcycle end over end by locking the front brake is easier going 80mph, and seating yourself firmly won't help.  The only reason a bicycle flips is because the rider goes forward into the handlebars; without this momentum, the bicycle's weight distribution with the rider makes flipping a bike on level ground impossible, and difficult coming down hill (wear your helmet).  The bike weighs about 6 pounds; the motorcycle weighs about 6 times what you do.  The motorcycle will not only effectively ignore your weight (puny flesh sack), but also will have much more powerful brakes, much more momentum, and much more raw speed.  In other news, you can't bunny hop a motorcycle by pulling up with your hands and legs.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262731541/

This is apparently the most up to date casual book on the topic of bicycle and motorcycle dynamics.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: Beer Monger on April 14, 2011, 02:22:42 pm
Motorcycles work exactly the same as bicycles
Dang!  No WONDER I get so fricken tired trying to pedal mine up steep hills!  ;)  lol
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 14, 2011, 02:46:27 pm
Motorcycles work exactly the same as bicycles
Dang!  No WONDER I get so fricken tired trying to pedal mine up steep hills!  ;)  lol

You're not backpedaling enough.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 14, 2011, 02:51:12 pm
Sigh, you had me at 'about 0.5g (i.e. 4.9 m/s^2 or 16ft/s^2), '....
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 14, 2011, 03:01:37 pm
Sigh, you had me at 'about 0.5g (i.e. 4.9 m/s^2 or 16ft/s^2), '....

Acceleration, in terms of acceleration by gravity, which is 9.81m/s^2.  It means that in the first second you're going 9.81m/s, in the second 19.62, in the third 3*9.81, and so on.  Braking is acceleration in the opposite direction, as you're trying to come to a stop and thus need to increase your speed along the vector opposing your current vector of travel.  This is all very complicated, as speed and time and everything are relative (i.e. perhaps the earth is 'moving' and you're 'stopped,' then 'stopping' involves 'accelerating to move with the earth'); so we just call this "Slowing down" and "Stopping" based on arbitrary perspective.  Still, the act of going from 0-60 is mathematically and physically equivalent to the act of going from 60-0, even though we call them different things.

Didn't you study advanced physics in high school like the rest of us?  (Basic biology, chemistry up through some organic and nuclear chemistry, and physics were all mandatory study in my high school; I don't remember much, and intend to restudy basic algebra in a better, more permanent fashion to make these topics more accessible to restudy.)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: denny on April 14, 2011, 03:03:33 pm
I like turtles.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 14, 2011, 03:06:10 pm
Sigh, you had me at 'about 0.5g (i.e. 4.9 m/s^2 or 16ft/s^2), '....

Acceleration, in terms of acceleration by gravity, which is 9.81m/s^2.  It means that in the first second you're going 9.81m/s, in the second 19.62, in the third 3*9.81, and so on.  Braking is acceleration in the opposite direction, as you're trying to come to a stop and thus need to increase your speed along the vector opposing your current vector of travel.  This is all very complicated, as speed and time and everything are relative (i.e. perhaps the earth is 'moving' and you're 'stopped,' then 'stopping' involves 'accelerating to move with the earth'); so we just call this "Slowing down" and "Stopping" based on arbitrary perspective.  Still, the act of going from 0-60 is mathematically and physically equivalent to the act of going from 60-0, even though we call them different things.

Didn't you study advanced physics in high school like the rest of us?  (Basic biology, chemistry up through some organic and nuclear chemistry, and physics were all mandatory study in my high school; I don't remember much, and intend to restudy basic algebra in a better, more permanent fashion to make these topics more accessible to restudy.)

You're such a flirt! ::)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 14, 2011, 03:11:24 pm
Anybody remember this classic from their youth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk


Man...so true...
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluesman on April 14, 2011, 05:05:27 pm
I like turtles.

...with or without tacos.  :-\
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 14, 2011, 05:45:11 pm
I like turtles.

You've obviously never had one bite you.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: punatic on April 14, 2011, 05:53:24 pm
Motorcycles work exactly the same as bicycles
Dang!  No WONDER I get so fricken tired trying to pedal mine up steep hills!  ;)  lol

You ride a moped?
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: weazletoe on April 14, 2011, 05:53:40 pm

Absolutely.  IMO, motorcycle riding teaches you the perfect combination of defensive & agressive driving - in other words, knowing when to play things cautious/safe and when to crank the throttle to get yourself up/ahead/away-from/out of a potentially dangerous situation. 


That's called a "Trial by Fire."  Learn or die.

"Combining both brakes won't stop you faster"  Yeah, WRONG.  ::)

Only wrong if you can somehow keep the rear wheel fully seated on the ground under MAXIMUM braking force.  I don't mean "Touching but gliding," I mean "Firmly planted."  If what is called a "stoppie" is physically possible, then using only the front brake in the most efficient way possible provides 100% of the maximum stopping power.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Stoppie.jpg/677px-Stoppie.jpg)

You have this kind of braking force up front.  What can the rear wheel possibly add?  The above is too much braking; use less front braking force, just enough to make the rear wheel glide over the surface of the road.

The maximum braking force of the front wheel on an upright bicycle (not motorcycle) is about 0.5g (i.e. 4.9 m/s^2 or 16ft/s^2), while the maximum braking force of the rear wheel alone is 0.1g (i.e. 0.981m/s^2 or 3.2ft/s^2).  The more force applied up front, the more weight comes off the rear wheel, thus the less friction produced by stopping the rear wheel (friction is friction coefficient times perpendicular force), thus at i.e. 0.4g you have absolutely no more than 0.02g stopping force in the back, and 0.42 is less than 0.5.  Be mindful you can lift the rear wheel by the 0.5 mark, so you haven't maximized front brake efficiency until you've eliminated rear wheel braking force entirely.  Maximum stopping force is at roughly 11% slippage in any condition, but the fact that the wheel is able to deadstop and flip the bike over it if the rider slides forward (if you push on the handlebars and stay seated, this likely won't happen) indicates that the front wheel is NOT skidding (at which point there is little braking force).

In various situations, front braking is undesirable.  On bumpy terrain (ill-maintained roads etc), you can throw the bike either forward or in a random direction (loss of control); use partial rear braking.  On long descents down huge hills you can overheat a wheel, inflating a tube beyond maximum pressure and causing a blow; modulate the brakes between front and back to allow heat radiation.  Of course if the front wheel is blown, stop with the rear.  In slippery conditions, more control can be had with some rear braking, sometimes; more braking force can usually be had due to lack of friction limiting efficiency to a point that the rear will not lift off the ground (at least not as soon), and indeed it's the total force that causes slippage (thus the rear wheel can reach more of its maximum braking power than the front wheel, since its maximum braking force is lower).

Motorcycles are not bicycles.  Motorcycles work exactly the same as bicycles; however, they are larger, heavier, faster, have a better contact patch with the ground, etc.  Sam exact dynamics, but the numbers we're using here are much different.  Launching a motorcycle end over end by locking the front brake is easier going 80mph, and seating yourself firmly won't help.  The only reason a bicycle flips is because the rider goes forward into the handlebars; without this momentum, the bicycle's weight distribution with the rider makes flipping a bike on level ground impossible, and difficult coming down hill (wear your helmet).  The bike weighs about 6 pounds; the motorcycle weighs about 6 times what you do.  The motorcycle will not only effectively ignore your weight (puny flesh sack), but also will have much more powerful brakes, much more momentum, and much more raw speed.  In other news, you can't bunny hop a motorcycle by pulling up with your hands and legs.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262731541/

This is apparently the most up to date casual book on the topic of bicycle and motorcycle dynamics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 15, 2011, 02:59:54 pm
So three days (last Thursday, this Monday, this Friday i.e. today) from nothing.  Today I found out there's a bike trail next to the road I take to work, paved, so I took that.  I learned three things:

Well, my suspension is coming; next week I'm buying a Brooks leather seat (N17 Imperial); and I just made a pedal upgrade:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BjnoyCAtL._AA300_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414yf8Io0nL._SY395_.jpg)

I've never been that guy, you know, who put the cold air intake on the car, the upgraded air filter, high-flow catalytic converter, a straighter exhaust pipe, and a high-flow muffler, just to squeeze that last 5HP out.

But I've never been the engine before, either.

Harder shoes and a solid mechanical connection to improve power transfer efficiency... yeah, I'll take that.  That's extremely significant.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 15, 2011, 03:25:27 pm
+1 on the clipless pedals and shoes. The only way to fly.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: ccarlson on April 15, 2011, 03:35:17 pm
There's always this and it eco friendly.  ;D

http://www.nycewheels.com/ezeebike-electricbicyclemotor-kit.html   (http://www.nycewheels.com/ezeebike-electricbicyclemotor-kit.html)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 15, 2011, 04:00:11 pm
Right on man.  Clipless pedals are definitely nice.  But in my opinion, for most around town/commuting purposes, they aren't warranted.  I ride clipless on my commute typically, but don't always feel the need.  Sure you can go faster and put in more effort, but my goal is to get from point A to point B, not necessarily get the best workout I can get.  While I'm getting a good workout, I don't want to sweat like crazy, especially on super hot days.  So I usually take it fairly easy, riding maybe 60-75%.  In the winter time though, I'll pretty much ride 90-100% effort, which gets me in pretty good shape come springtime.  
For around town stuff, I ride a fixed gear with toe clips and Adidas Sambas; great combination.
And definitely find a route that is more enjoyable to ride, even if it's longer.  You'll likely stick with commuting to work if you enjoy your ride to work.  If that means taking a route that is a mile or two longer but with significantly less traffic or steep-ass hills, then do it.  I have 3 routes to choose from: the short 3.5 mile hilly ass route, the more traffic ridden, slightly hillier 4.5 mile route, or the hardly any traffic, few hills, 5.5 mile route.  
If I'm running late, I take the short route, if it's windy as hell or snowing I take the middle route (because there are more building and trees to block wind, and it's on streets where the snow/ice will be cleared typically), if it's nice out I take the long route.  Nice having options, never get bored of riding to work.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: riverrat on April 15, 2011, 04:07:57 pm
Did you mean B17 on the saddle?  I've never heard of the N17.  Another option would be to go with the flyer (I recall you mentioning a thudbuster, so you could skip that with just a flyer):
http://www.brooksengland.com/en/Shop_ProductPage.aspx?cat=saddles+-+touring+%26+trekking&prod=Flyer

I have a b17 and a flyer.  Both are awesome.  The flyer has more use so far, so it fits a bit better.  They do take a bit of saddle time to get them to fit you properly.  A bit of saddle conditioner (Brooks Proofide seems to work well) will help speed up the process.  Just don't go overboard with it, or you will prematurely stretch out the leather.

Good call on going with clipless.  Not sure if you have already bought or not, but I'm a big fan of Time brand pedals.  Extremely durable and easy in/out.

Congrats on commuting with your own power!  The first time is the hardest, and you are well past that.

Good luck with avoiding the overly entitled motorists.

And as far as hauling brew stuff, I have hauled 4 full kegs home from a friends house, 2 sacks of grain (along with other specialties, hops, yeast, etc...) from the brew store, and many other things.  It just takes a long bike.  But I have also hauled a 50 lb sack of corn sugar on the rear rack of my commuter as well.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: nicneufeld on April 15, 2011, 04:15:20 pm
Problem with B17s...you generally need a fighter escort.  Find something with a higher cruise speed and altitude ceiling, is my recommendation.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: gmac on April 15, 2011, 04:20:01 pm
So...um, not sure where this ended up.  Are you going for a check up or not?

Good friend of mine (42) and very active just spent a week in ICU for his heart and only got out Tuesday.  Up to you but I think it's probably time I paid a visit to the family practioner.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: punatic on April 15, 2011, 06:28:35 pm
If you question the accuracy of your odometer, a small hand-held GPS receiver works well for instantaneous speed, average speed, and distance.  Easy to attach to the bike.  Likely less expensive than those pedals and shoes.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: bluefoxicy on April 15, 2011, 07:46:38 pm
(I recall you mentioning a thudbuster, so you could skip that with just a flyer):

Springs vs parallelogram zero-stiction elastomer tuned specifically to my weight and tastes.  I'll stick with the Thudbuster.  On top of that I think I'll release enough air for a 15% drop in tire height (this won't increase rolling resistance at all).

How the heck did you ever haul 50 pounds of crap on your bike anyway?

Quote from: punatic
If you question the accuracy of your odometer, a small hand-held GPS receiver works well for instantaneous speed, average speed, and distance.  Easy to attach to the bike.  Likely less expensive than those pedals and shoes.

Nods, well my Cateye says this:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Randolph+Rd&daddr=39.3060329,-76.7285464+to:39.2998509,-76.705534+to:39.2985189,-76.654012+to:39.30118,-76.63173+to:1403+Madison+Ave,+Baltimore,+MD+21217&hl=en&geocode=FVbKVwIdgUxt-w%3BFTDDVwIdHjdt-yl5pACm_hvIiTEOS3764r6Z1g%3BFQqrVwIdApFt-ynhnOxkiRvIiTF189Ov9SDFWA%3BFdalVwIdRFpu-ykF_CMWWhvIiTGaPi3-DgHk5w%3BFTywVwIdTrFu-ymHkJMwsATIiTGC24yR3pwg8Q%3BFVi8VwIdCsBu-ynRnHojugTIiTG-jwuZyobr_g&mra=dpe&mrsp=4&sz=15&via=1,2,3,4&sll=39.29658,-76.649423&sspn=0.033477,0.044246&ie=UTF8&ll=39.306077,-76.72122&spn=0.016736,0.022123&t=h&z=16

(6.8mi) is 8 miles, and this

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1403+Madison+Ave,+Baltimore,+MD+21217&daddr=39.301065,-76.672832+to:39.30378,-76.6738486+to:39.307919,-76.687919+to:39.30442,-76.69167+to:39.3034947,-76.7142338+to:39.3059452,-76.7285142+to:Randolph+Rd&hl=en&geocode=FVi8VwIdCsBu-ynRnHojugTIiTG-jwuZyobr_g%3BFcmvVwIdwBBu-yndR6BnZBvIiTGa97P2QHCFfQ%3BFWS6VwIdyAxu-yl3OOd5ehvIiTGdbZEzSvJRzQ%3BFY_KVwId0dVt-ynrC_QodhvIiTGBRR9l2sKGqA%3BFeS8VwIdKsdt-yndAM_6ghvIiTGr6prkBHjo3g%3BFUa5VwIdB29t-yktA4M_9BvIiTHjQDwNMwC7jA%3BFdnCVwIdPjdt-yl5pACm_hvIiTEPS3764r6Z1g%3BFVbKVwIdgUxt-w&mra=dpe&mrsp=6&sz=16&via=1,2,3,4,5,6&dirflg=b&sll=39.3044,-76.722615&sspn=0.016737,0.022123&ie=UTF8&ll=39.30367,-76.684377&spn=0.016737,0.022123&t=h&z=16&lci=bike

(8.5mi) is 12.74 miles.

The tech at the bike shop installed, calibrated, and configured my Cateye.  I don't much trust 'em; guess I'll check the configuration.  I'm using 700c x 32h wheels, which should be about 300mm high (plus tires I guess).

http://sheldonbrown.com/cyclecomp_f.html

2155 is the number.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 15, 2011, 08:06:28 pm
Don't worry about all that crap man, just ride.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: punatic on April 15, 2011, 10:30:44 pm
Don't worry about all that crap man, just ride.

+1 on just riding.

This is what I use. < $100 everywhere.  I use it for riding, driving, flying, hiking, and getting into and out of the active lava fields when the rain/fog/white-out conditions sneak up on me.  I've had it for 9 years now.  Very accurate, except on elevation.  Elevation wanders.  I think that's on purpose to keep non-friendlies from using GPS for accurate targeting.

(http://garminetrexhandheldgps.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/garmin_etrex_h.jpg)
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: uthristy on April 16, 2011, 01:08:06 pm
Launching a motorcycle end over end by locking the front brake is easier going 80mph, and seating yourself firmly won't help. 

Oh shut up! >:(  I don't have the time nor urge to correct all of your so-called facts about motorcycle dynamics. Lets just say I've been riding longer than you've been breathing air.... and doing "stoppings" in the rain on slicks  explain that with your facts
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 16, 2011, 01:19:47 pm
Launching a motorcycle end over end by locking the front brake is easier going 80mph, and seating yourself firmly won't help. 

Oh shut up! >:(  I don't have the time nor urge to correct all of your so-called facts about motorcycle dynamics. Lets just say I've been riding longer than you've been breathing air.... and doing "stoppings" in the rain on slicks  explain that with your facts

Dude, I was hoping you'd weigh in here. I almost PMed ya.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: uthristy on April 16, 2011, 06:21:27 pm

Dude, I was hoping you'd weigh in here. I almost PMed ya.

I was out of town for my 45th birthday, the very first thread I read was this. ???

pissed me off to say the least.

--------------------------
A few vids that make the book riders say thats not possible>

http://youtu.be/8XgJivIfpPc

http://youtu.be/qLfLUj6nZ5U

http://youtu.be/KxD2oN2MbuA
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 16, 2011, 07:32:58 pm
I think I saw a Garry McCoy clip in there, he's always gettin it slideways...
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: tumarkin on April 16, 2011, 11:22:24 pm
same only different...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-20054476-76.html
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: MrNate on April 18, 2011, 05:56:10 pm

"Combining both brakes won't stop you faster"  Yeah, WRONG.  ::)

Only wrong if you can somehow keep the rear wheel fully seated on the ground under MAXIMUM braking force.  I don't mean "Touching but gliding," I mean "Firmly planted."  If what is called a "stoppie" is physically possible, then using only the front brake in the most efficient way possible provides 100% of the maximum stopping power.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Stoppie.jpg/677px-Stoppie.jpg)

You have this kind of braking force up front.  What can the rear wheel possibly add?  The above is too much braking; use less front braking force, just enough to make the rear wheel glide over the surface of the road.


I read this 3 or 4 times and then gave up on trying to discern your position. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? "Combining both brakes won't stop you faster"
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: uthristy on April 18, 2011, 06:53:07 pm
If what is called a "stoppie" is physically possible, then using only the front brake in the most efficient way possible provides 100% of the maximum stopping power.

>Google   --> Threshold braking


  The motorcycle will not only effectively ignore your weight 

.  ::) good grief dude, every ounce of rider weight is called "sprung mass (or sprung weight)" and, AND where ever that weight is on the motorcycle that will have a huge  effect  on the handling of said vehicle.

In other news, you can't bunny hop a motorcycle by pulling up with your hands and legs.

Funny but I could have sworn I saw Aaron yates bunny hop at Mid Ohio a few years ago... oh you also may want to look at some  World Trials vids.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: MrNate on April 18, 2011, 07:31:30 pm
Not particularly relevant, but kind of cool nonetheless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOFimB7ZA
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: alikocho on April 19, 2011, 09:19:58 pm
As an addendum to this, and as a hardcore cyclist (I don't own a car, although can drive), BBC Radio 4 had a big discussion about cycling and risk on the road on  You and Yours today. Anyone interested should be able to listen again.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: uthristy on April 20, 2011, 11:19:56 am
2010 VCA Bike Race In Urban Chile.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=57257
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: MrNate on April 20, 2011, 02:04:18 pm
2010 VCA Bike Race In Urban Chile.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=57257

Man, he took that thing over some sweet jumps.
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: beersk on April 20, 2011, 03:16:15 pm
Somebody posted the link to that recently on either here or NB forum.  Pretty amazing.  The part where the dog walks out in front of him is nerve racking! Rapido!
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: maxieboy on April 20, 2011, 03:24:23 pm
Gnarly!
Title: Re: Exploding heart in 3, 2, 1...
Post by: EHall on April 20, 2011, 07:16:42 pm
it looks like it has been speed up in parts...