Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: oscarvan on April 13, 2011, 12:18:29 AM

Title: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on April 13, 2011, 12:18:29 AM
No really....

He brewed a Czech Pilsner, extract style. I wasn't here for this. Two weeks later there is a layer of white "stuff" with green spots on top of the beer in his bucket...... Me, I'm not optimistic about this....

Any thoughts?

(http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/PicPages/Linkto_files/shapeimage_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: bluesman on April 13, 2011, 12:54:01 AM
Oscar that is mold. There's no way that could have grown in two weeks unless it was cultivated and given oxygen.

Toss it.  :(
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: euge on April 13, 2011, 12:56:34 AM
Was going to say it looks like mold. But bluesman beat me to it. How long to have it grow? Two weeks is a long time.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tubercle on April 13, 2011, 01:00:57 AM
EEEEWWWWWWW :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on April 13, 2011, 01:01:48 AM
EEEEWWWWWWW :o :o :o :o

That's what I told him....... Oh well.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 13, 2011, 01:27:53 AM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: maxieboy on April 13, 2011, 01:33:36 AM
Did he catch a cold while brewing and wait on pitching his yeast?  ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tygo on April 13, 2011, 01:56:36 AM
But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

That's like rubbing the dogs nose in his "mistake".
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on April 13, 2011, 02:04:17 AM
OK, so now that we have established what I already thought......

How does one "get" mold? I need to tell him something he can learn from.... The only thing I can think of is that he has the thing parked in a closet in the (slightly damp) basement, which may well have a lot of these critters flying around in it.....but how they got in the bucket I don't know, unless he opened it and they jumped in..... will have to ask.

(Never had this problem myself, yet....)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: bluesman on April 13, 2011, 02:12:41 AM
Mold is everywhere. Relative Humidity levels are the main consideration. If he ferments in a wet humid basement there will be more mold than a dry basement. Does he have a mold problem? My bet is that he has a significant problem so mold remediation will be necessary.

The focus of your recommendation should be: beyond the mold problem

rule#1 - "clean and sanitize" everything that touches the wort after boiling
rule#2 -  refer to rule #1
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 13, 2011, 03:00:19 AM
New beer category proposal:

Antibiotic beer!
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: fatdogale on April 13, 2011, 03:21:33 AM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

Like rubbing the cats nose it it when he pees in the house
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: fatdogale on April 13, 2011, 03:22:59 AM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

Like rubbing the cats nose it it when he pees in the house

I shoulda read all the posts - tygo beat me to it...
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 13, 2011, 04:39:34 AM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

Like rubbing the cats nose it it when he pees in the house

I shoulda read all the posts - tygo beat me to it...
Yeah, but it doesn't work with the animals. :)

The main thing though is to get a good strong dose of the flavor, which can help identify it at lower levels if he runs into an odd taste that isn't quite so visible in the fermenter.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on April 13, 2011, 12:58:45 PM
Anyone know how well Starsan works on mold?  I ask because I keep a couple of gallons of mixed Starsan solution in a bucket and also have a couple gallons of mixed PBW in another bucket (identical cheapo Home Depot buckets).  The lid for the Starsan bucket occasionally develops a few mold spots but the PBW bucket doesn't, or at least doesn't to the degree the Starsan bucket does.  And the PBW is often put in the bucket when still warm so there is often heavy condensation on that lid, not so for the Starsan bucket.  As a result, I switch buckets/solutions when I make a new Starsan solution.

Plus we have a picture of mold growing on beer which should be in the ~4.5 pH range, so that level of acidity seems to be no problem.

Also, I was just doing some reading on it and while I can't comment on the validity of this article, they say bleach does NOT kill mold. (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/does-bleach-kill-black-mold.html)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: maxieboy on April 13, 2011, 01:31:51 PM
Yeah, but it doesn't work with the animals. :)

Precisely. I refrained but now that it's out there... it's only for the owner. Crate train, nuff said.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: aubeertine31 on April 13, 2011, 02:22:23 PM
Also, I was just doing some reading on it and while I can't comment on the validity of this article, they say bleach does NOT kill mold. (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/does-bleach-kill-black-mold.html)

Hmm...while reading your post, I was thinking, well bleach kills everything. Interesting article though, and you're right, can't say for sure on the validity of it. It almost sounds reasonable because the chlorine evaporates very quickly, although I think it would leave more than just water. To be sure I think I would check with an expert, someone who does mold removal for a living. Although, during my last bottling attempt I used old bottles with definite mold spots and I bleached the hell out of them and they worked fine. I just always remember to use the coldest water possible when using bleach (and gloves haha).
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: jaybeerman on April 13, 2011, 06:55:31 PM
Also, I was just doing some reading on it and while I can't comment on the validity of this article, they say bleach does NOT kill mold. (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/does-bleach-kill-black-mold.html)

the key word in that article is the word "black."  

<edit> meaning, it doesn’t pertain to brewing therefore ignore it
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 13, 2011, 07:12:02 PM
The Centers For Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) (http://www.cdc.gov/mold/stachy.htm#Q11) disagrees.  They reccommend using a bleach solution for removing black mold (Stachybotrys chartarum).

and this:

More CDC information on black mold (http://www.oem.msu.edu/userfiles/file/News/Sv14n2.pdf)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: beveragebob on April 13, 2011, 07:16:22 PM
Sure it's not hop pellet residue floating on top of the krausen?
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tonyp on April 13, 2011, 09:07:10 PM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

i know you're kidding but make sure he's not allergic to penicillin before doing that :)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 13, 2011, 11:37:34 PM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

i know you're kidding but make sure he's not allergic to penicillin before doing that :)
I'm really not kidding, I taste all of my mistakes. ;)  You make a good point though, it might not be a penicillium but if you aren't sure and have an allergy then don't.  Find someone else to taste it and describe it to you. ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: timberati on April 13, 2011, 11:59:19 PM
Mold.

But taste it before you dump it.  It's the best way to learn from your mistakes. ;) ;D

i know you're kidding but make sure he's not allergic to penicillin before doing that :)
I'm really not kidding, I taste all of my mistakes. ;)  You make a good point though, it might not be a penicillium but if you aren't sure and have an allergy then don't.  Find someone else to taste it and describe it to you. ;D
Gordon Strong has an article along these lines in the Mar-Apr 2010 issue of Brew Your Own, "Be your own best critic: How judging your own beer can improve your brewing."  In a sidebar of the article he lists "common beer faults." Under Contamination he writes, "Contaminating microorganisms can cause a variety of off flavors, aromas, and mouthfuls…Although there are a number of different bacteria and yeast that contaminate wort or beer, the corrective measure is the same in all cases-clean your brewing equipment and environment thoroughly and sanitize any piece of brewing equipment that will come in contact with the chilled wort or beer. Likewise do not repitch yeast following a contaminated batch."
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: Will's Swill on April 14, 2011, 12:35:57 AM
Contaminating microorganisms can cause a variety of off flavors, aromas, and mouthfuls…

It's the mouthful of stuff going the other direction that I'd be worried about.  :P

I listened to a BN podcast with the owner of StarSan, he said that bleach would not kill many larger microorganisms unless acidified.  But adding acid to bleach is not something you want to do at home without a gas mask (isn't that how you make mustard gas or something?).  nononononono.

I have read of another homebrewer, can't remember where, that had mold in his ventilation system that constantly infected his brews.  He had to switch to a system that was completely closed post-boil, using CO2 to transfer between vessels.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: gordonstrong on April 14, 2011, 03:29:40 AM
It's ammonia and bleach that you don't want to mix unless you're trying to recreate trench warfare.  Read the backs of those bottles for the warnings.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 14, 2011, 03:36:52 AM
If your intention is to generate chlorine gas you're spot on.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 14, 2011, 06:04:15 AM
I remember a podcast where they talked about acidifying bleach water.  You add bleach or vinegar to water, mix well, then add the other one.  You don't want to add bleach to vinegar or vinegar to bleach, then add the water.  Basic Brewing Radio I think.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on April 14, 2011, 06:47:14 PM
OK, we're getting to the bottom of this....

First, my friend is not a "read the instructions guy"... I told him which books to buy, he hasn't read them yet. I asked him which yeast he used, he didn't know. I asked him what the OG was and what it is now, he doesn't know..... <beating head against wall>

But, here's what happened. It was a kit. I doubt that the "Czech Pilsner" kit had a lager yeast in it. Probably a German ale yeast to simulate the pseudo sort of almost pilsner. He stuck it in a basement closet which is at about 52º. I suspect the yeast took a nap, and the other bugs took over.

Now, he has racked it from under the "fuzz layer" into a carboy and put it on the counter top in the kitchen. 68º-ish. Lo and behold a vigorous fermentation is taking place which confirms my theory.

Now, I asked him how it tasted, he said: (you guessed it) I don't know.

So whether this beer will survive is still up in the air.

At least he's a halfway decent drummer.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 14, 2011, 07:03:40 PM

At least he's a halfway decent drummer.


Like this?  (I love this video short!)

Baby's First Audition (http://vimeo.com/staffpicks#16198681)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: denny on April 14, 2011, 07:04:58 PM
At least he's a halfway decent drummer.

a drummer?  As a bass player for the last 45 years, let me just say...

That explains everything!

What does a drummer do to park in a handicapped spot?
Leaves his drumsticks on the dashboard.

How do you know the stage is level?
The drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?
Homeless.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on April 14, 2011, 07:23:32 PM
At least he's a halfway decent drummer.

a drummer?  As a bass player for the last 45 years, let me just say...

That explains everything!

What does a drummer do to park in a handicapped spot?
Leaves his drumsticks on the dashboard.

How do you know the stage is level?
The drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?
Homeless.
Ding, ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!

And as guitar player for ~35 years...you beat me to it!
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: bluesman on April 14, 2011, 07:33:58 PM
At least he's a halfway decent drummer.

a drummer?  As a bass player for the last 45 years, let me just say...

That explains everything!

What does a drummer do to park in a handicapped spot?
Leaves his drumsticks on the dashboard.

How do you know the stage is level?
The drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?
Homeless.

LMFAO

Denny...as a fellow bass player...I can certainly relate.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: Rhoobarb on April 14, 2011, 08:32:37 PM
What's the difference between a dead drummer in the road and a dead skunk in the road?  The skunk may have actually had a paying gig to attend.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: denny on April 14, 2011, 08:34:09 PM
What's the difference between a dead drummer in the road and a dead skunk in the road?  The skunk may have actually had a paying gig to attend.

I've heard that before but with a trombone player!   ;D  Drummer works equally well, though.

If you throw a drummer and brick off the top of a building, which one hits first?
Who cares!
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: Rhoobarb on April 14, 2011, 08:42:58 PM
Why are drummers so easy for surgeons to operate on? Because there are only two moving parts, the mouth and the a**hole, and they're interchangeable.

Oh, the train has gone off the rails now...
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: denny on April 14, 2011, 09:54:49 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: EHall on April 14, 2011, 10:57:45 PM
whoa whoa whoa! whats with all the hatred towards drummers?! Jeez!
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: denny on April 14, 2011, 10:58:55 PM
I see no hatred.....just the facts!   ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tubercle on April 15, 2011, 12:50:08 AM
Those are good ones.

 In SC just substitute banjo player for drummer ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 15, 2011, 01:09:15 AM
Those are good ones.

 In SC just substitute banjo player for drummer ;D
Uh . . . aren't you a banjo player Tubercle?
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tubercle on April 15, 2011, 01:25:19 AM
Those are good ones.

 In SC just substitute banjo player for drummer ;D
Uh . . . aren't you a banjo player Tubercle?

 Uh....

 I play the guitar better :-\
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: yugamrap on April 15, 2011, 01:31:14 AM
How do you get a drummer off of your porch?

...Pay him for the pizza.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 15, 2011, 01:50:52 AM
Those are good ones.

 In SC just substitute banjo player for drummer ;D
Uh . . . aren't you a banjo player Tubercle?

 Uh....

 I play the guitar better :-\
But you play the banjo.  In SC.  Just sayin'.   ;) ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tubercle on April 15, 2011, 09:34:45 PM
Those are good ones.

 In SC just substitute banjo player for drummer ;D
Uh . . . aren't you a banjo player Tubercle?

 Uh....

 I play the guitar better :-\
But you play the banjo.  In SC.  Just sayin'.   ;) ;D

 that's known as a double whammy ;D
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 15, 2011, 11:02:54 PM
(http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1166536001l/13068.jpg)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on April 16, 2011, 02:19:51 AM
LOVE Carl..... Sick Puppy.... my favorite....

So, I'm a keyboard player and vocalist..... Nomex on!
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: bluesman on April 16, 2011, 02:21:33 AM
Have to do this.  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: a10t2 on April 16, 2011, 03:04:28 AM
How can you tell a drummer's at the door?
The knocking keeps speeding up.

How do you get him to go away?
Pay for the pizza.


... In an orchestra, substitute "violist".
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 16, 2011, 09:35:14 AM
LOVE Carl..... Sick Puppy.... my favorite....

So, I'm a keyboard player and vocalist..... Nomex on!

And here I thought you were the Hurdy Gurdy Man.

If you like Carl Hiaasen you should check out Paul Levine's Salomon vs Lord series and Tim Dorsey's books too.

This is my favorite Hiaasen book.  I used to run in the places where his books are set.

(http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/tourist_season.jpg)

Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 16, 2011, 08:15:12 PM
I'm not a drummer, but I am a juggler.  This is cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5T-WaIIogo
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: jeffy on April 16, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
I juggle a bit, too, but not like these guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2mi3Nw0wQ
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: bluesman on April 16, 2011, 08:56:18 PM
Speaking of drummers...This kid is amazing!!!  8)

That was then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8cvKImVadE&feature=related

...and this is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtIUyPukSTM
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: tschmidlin on April 16, 2011, 08:58:24 PM
Yeah, I'm on ok juggler, but those guys are great.

Check out this 3-ball Chris Bliss video - none of the tricks he does are all that impressive, but he puts it all to music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8f8drk5Urw

He was getting a lot of gushing reviews which irritated some serious professional jugglers (because the tricks aren't that hard), so then this video came out.  It's the exact soundtrack, all of the same tricks, but done with 5 balls instead of three.  Much, much, much, much harder.  And at the end you can see Garfield juggle 10 balls. :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYUXaYCkv-A

Speaking of Jason Garfield, he's got a giant ego, but he backs it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgJHjGXO07U
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: punatic on April 16, 2011, 11:20:12 PM
I'm not a fig plucker, nor a fig plucker's son,
But, I'll pluck figs till the fig plucker comes!
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: quest4watneys on April 17, 2011, 01:40:59 AM
At least he's a halfway decent drummer.

a drummer?  As a bass player for the last 45 years, let me just say...

That explains everything!

What does a drummer do to park in a handicapped spot?
Leaves his drumsticks on the dashboard.

How do you know the stage is level?
The drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?
Homeless.

As a bass player myself I can't believe you guys missed this one:

What do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians?
A drummer.  (Please, try the veal!!!)
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: 1vertical on April 21, 2011, 05:56:12 AM
Uh.... back to the MOLD thing. I know that Iodine based stuff i.e. Idophor
is effective against the aspergillis organism...and I heard as well it will
eliminate black pin mold, which are the things you do NOT want to ingest.
Some mold contamination can be really hazardous to life as we know it....

http://angelrabbitry.net/vanodine/idophor.php (http://angelrabbitry.net/vanodine/idophor.php)

Yeah I am slow I am NOT a drummer.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: Kit B on April 21, 2011, 07:56:28 PM
It's ammonia and bleach that you don't want to mix unless you're trying to recreate trench warfare.  Read the backs of those bottles for the warnings.

Yeah...Stood next to a girl in 8th grade Home Ec class that did that.
We had to evacuate that entire wing of the building.
Bad news.

...Smelled almost as bad as a drummer.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on June 03, 2011, 11:25:05 PM
Well, here's the epilogue.

The spooge was scooped off and the beer fermented and was bottled. Today I tasted it.....(almost 7 weeks old)
Now mind you this is a Czech Pilsner kit..... and it tastes just like......DUVEL, and it is AWESOME.

The man made a perfect Belgian complete with wild bugs in it. He will NEVER be able to do this again.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: jamminbrew on June 04, 2011, 12:02:13 AM
At least he's a halfway decent drummer.

a drummer?  As a bass player for the last 45 years, let me just say...

That explains everything!

What does a drummer do to park in a handicapped spot?
Leaves his drumsticks on the dashboard.

How do you know the stage is level?
The drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?
Homeless.

As a bass player myself I can't believe you guys missed this one:

What do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians?
A drummer.  (Please, try the veal!!!)
W
How does a drummer make his car go faster?  He removes the pizza sign!.
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: 1vertical on June 04, 2011, 05:09:14 AM
Duvel Is wonderful...but I cannot fathom the bug being green...
and not being mold....hop chunks are green however
Title: Re: Doctor I have this friend.....
Post by: oscarvan on June 04, 2011, 02:14:46 PM
Most of the blob was white, with a few green specs..... I'm sorry about the red X, didn't think I was going to revisit this and cleaned up the web page.