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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: gmac on April 14, 2011, 09:33:47 PM

Title: Brew Your Own place
Post by: gmac on April 14, 2011, 09:33:47 PM
I went into a local BYO place today because I was told that I might be able to order grain from them.  Turns out they were very willing to order grain for me from their supplier when they order LME and specialty grains so that was positive. Gotta wait a bit but at least I will get 25kg bags of 2-row without the 2 hour drive I was doing before.

But, we got talking about beer, brewing etc and I was so sadly  disappointed to see what they considered a "Recipe".  Basically, every recipe they showed me was:
X lbs LME
X time 2 glucose.
Probably 1/3 LME and 2/3 corn sugar in all of their recipes. They also only used dry yeast and all of the beer was fermented at 68 degrees regardless of whether it was a lager or an ale.  Just so sad.

I did see an interesting way to ferment though.  They had 50L plastic barrels with holes cut in them and then a plastic bag put into the barrel.  The beer was put in the bag and a twist-tie put on the bag.  That's it.  No fermentation lock or anything.  2 weeks in that, filtered and bottled for a week. and you have beer.   Or what they called beer.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: EHall on April 14, 2011, 09:48:42 PM
We used to have one of those places here in Scottsdale... very cool place, had good beer... but they had a 'menu' of recipes and were more than willing to let you bring in one, and brew it with you... to bad it shut down...
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: weazletoe on April 14, 2011, 11:03:14 PM
A 68* lager!!!! Dear god I hope Major does not read this thread. Will all his recent problems, this will be just thing to drive him over the edge. We'll next be reading about him in BFI's exploding heart thread!!  :o
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: gmac on April 14, 2011, 11:06:08 PM
Oh, I should also mention when I was trying to get 2-row, I asked if her supplier carried Maris Otter.  "What's that?"
This from a person who owns and runs a brew your own. 
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: denny on April 14, 2011, 11:30:25 PM
I don't know if it's the same place, but about a year ago I got contacted by a brew on premise place in Canada to help them troubleshoot some problems they were having.  Very nice people, but all they knew about brewing was what the previous owner had told them and most of that was incorrect.  Keep in mind that the people you're talking to might well just look at the place as a business and have no idea (or interest) in what brewing's all about.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: punatic on April 14, 2011, 11:57:48 PM

...A 68* lager!!!!


SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSteam!
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: weazletoe on April 15, 2011, 03:13:18 AM
On a serious note, I've been thinking about this thread a lot this evening, and you know what really bums me about it? How many people will go there, pony up 100$ or better (I'm told these byo places are not cheap) and make beer that taste like butt. So, they decide to never give homebrew, or homebrewing a chance again, based on this experience. If you ask me, it's not doing our hobby any justice.  ::)
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: gmac on April 15, 2011, 03:50:11 AM
Weazeltoe - $110 Can for 48 L of "regular", $128 for 48 L of "premium"  10% discount if you're not wearing pants.

Denny - might not be the same place, Canada is a fair size but you never know.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised if cash is the driving factor over quality. 
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: punatic on April 15, 2011, 04:33:51 AM
On a serious note, I've been thinking about this thread a lot this evening, and you know what really bums me about it? How many people will go there, pony up 100$ or better (I'm told these byo places are not cheap) and make beer that taste like butt. So, they decide to never give homebrew, or homebrewing a chance again, based on this experience. If you ask me, it's not doing our hobby any justice.  ::)

I paid $75 for two cases of Bigfoot today.  That is the normal net yield from a five gallon batch.  As much as I'd like to think my barleywine tastes good, I like Bigfoot better.  I can't imagine getting excited about spending $100 for two cases of lolo kine beer.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: euge on April 15, 2011, 05:50:03 AM
What is a Brew Your Own place? A Canadian brew-pub?
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: phillamb168 on April 15, 2011, 07:24:15 AM
I'm slowly convincing my local beer shop to become a homebrew supply shop as well (we're having the first Paris homebrewer's meeting there next Wednesday) and the BYO shop was something I had mentioned to him, and he seemed interested. I feel like that sort of shop would only work in a very densely populated urban area like NYC, Paris or London, where most apartments have (literally) 1 square meter of kitchen. That's the _only_ reason I see for having one.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: weazletoe on April 15, 2011, 10:57:47 AM
What is a Brew Your Own place? A Canadian brew-pub?

Basically, you got there, brew 5 gallons of extract "beer", go back two weeks later, and bottle.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: jeffy on April 15, 2011, 11:30:34 AM
On a serious note, I've been thinking about this thread a lot this evening, and you know what really bums me about it? How many people will go there, pony up 100$ or better (I'm told these byo places are not cheap) and make beer that taste like butt. So, they decide to never give homebrew, or homebrewing a chance again, based on this experience. If you ask me, it's not doing our hobby any justice.  ::)

They all went out of business a decade ago around here.  I once gave a friend who had tried this one of my homebrews and he said, "I didn't know it was possible to make beer like this at home."  The beers I tasted from Brew On Premises establishments were about the same quality as your very first off-the-shelf extract kit, the one with dry yeast, old extract and lots of sugar.  Perhaps they're better now?

edit to change from "brew your own" to "brew on premisses"
edit again to correct the spelling of "premises"
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: tumarkin on April 15, 2011, 11:49:41 AM
On a serious note, I've been thinking about this thread a lot this evening, and you know what really bums me about it? How many people will go there, pony up 100$ or better (I'm told these byo places are not cheap) and make beer that taste like butt. So, they decide to never give homebrew, or homebrewing a chance again, based on this experience. If you ask me, it's not doing our hobby any justice.  ::)

They all went out of business a decade ago around here.  I once gave a friend who had tried this one of my homebrews and he said, "I didn't know it was possible to make beer like this at home."  The beers I tasted from Brew Your Own establishments were about the same quality as your very first off-the-shelf extract kit, the one with dry yeast, old extract and lots of sugar.  Perhaps they're better now?

Perhaps not. Actually, likely not.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: ccarlson on April 15, 2011, 12:45:25 PM
On a serious note, I've been thinking about this thread a lot this evening, and you know what really bums me about it? How many people will go there, pony up 100$ or better (I'm told these byo places are not cheap) and make beer that taste like butt. So, they decide to never give homebrew, or homebrewing a chance again, based on this experience. If you ask me, it's not doing our hobby any justice.  ::)

I will tell people about brewing only if they ask and I don't go into details unless they ask more questions. It's not a hobby for everyone and I personally kind of prefer it that way. Makes it seem more special to me.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: weazletoe on April 15, 2011, 01:33:05 PM
 I certainly understand how you feel, and to some extent, I feel the same way. But, think of it this way....the more who get into the hobby, the more homebrew shops open up. The more homebrew shops open up, the cost go down for each to stay competitive.
  Also, if I do chose to tell someone that I homebrew, and their only experience is with something even worse than homebrew swill, what will they think of me and my beer, no matter how hard I try and tell them other wise? Of course, a sample would help, but sometimes it's just feasible. Some times, I even get to thinking that Mr. Beer does our hobby more harm than good. I have a buddy in Idaho who used it for a couple batches, and just totally gave up on homebrew, because it was so awful. Well, fast forward a few years....I now have my 12 gallon system in his garage to do my brewing. Man is he gonna be shocked when I tap that first keg next week, and finds out what real homebrew taste like. Point is, if he never met me, he would be turned off homebrew for life. And to me, that just sucks.  :(
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: ccarlson on April 15, 2011, 02:09:14 PM
And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed. At least one of them.

As for more home brew shops opening, that means little to me. I do group, bulk buys for just about everything and a few more hobbyists aren't going to make our suppliers drop their prices. Don't get me wrong, I do see your point and it may apply to more people like yourself, just not me.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: gmac on April 15, 2011, 02:17:33 PM
What is a Brew Your Own place? A Canadian brew-pub?
Euge,
I think Weazletoe summed it up fairly well.  Picture a place with a half dozen brew kettles.  You add your water, dump in a bit of malt extract and a lot of corn syrup and some hops.  Boil it and cool it and then you get to pitch the yeast so you can say you made beer.  It's sort of like being a father in the delivery room.  They let you cut the cord so you can say you helped but you really didn't do a hell of a lot.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: bluesman on April 15, 2011, 02:43:28 PM
I went into a local BYO place today because I was told that I might be able to order grain from them.  Turns out they were very willing to order grain for me from their supplier when they order LME and specialty grains so that was positive. Gotta wait a bit but at least I will get 25kg bags of 2-row without the 2 hour drive I was doing before.

But, we got talking about beer, brewing etc and I was so sadly  disappointed to see what they considered a "Recipe".  Basically, every recipe they showed me was:
X lbs LME
X time 2 glucose.
Probably 1/3 LME and 2/3 corn sugar in all of their recipes. They also only used dry yeast and all of the beer was fermented at 68 degrees regardless of whether it was a lager or an ale.  Just so sad.



Agreed...It's amazing that with all of the information available on the internet, in books, magazines and through LHBC's and LHBS's  that folks would entertain such an idea. I understand the convenience factor to a point but if the beer quality is poor then why even pursue it.  I can only imagine the beer quality to be pretty nasty.

...but perhars it's different strokes for different folks.

Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: denny on April 15, 2011, 02:47:49 PM
Denny - might not be the same place, Canada is a fair size but you never know.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised if cash is the driving factor over quality. 

The people I talked with (who by the way did all their fermentations at 68!) were definitely interested in quality, but as a means to keep the customers happy and their business going.  You really can't fault them.  They bought a business.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: weazletoe on April 15, 2011, 06:00:11 PM
And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed. At least one of them.

As for more home brew shops opening, that means little to me. I do group, bulk buys for just about everything and a few more hobbyists aren't going to make our suppliers drop their prices. Don't get me wrong, I do see your point and it may apply to more people like yourself, just not me.

Yeah, we both have good points for our particular situation. I guess that's why they say opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink.  ;D
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: punatic on April 15, 2011, 06:40:03 PM
Wow!  Who knew BOPs could make people so philosophical, ay?      ::)
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: Kit B on April 15, 2011, 07:27:57 PM
The local one in my area seems to have bottle sanitation problems that they can't seem to overcome.
Beer comes out of the fermenter just fine.
After being in the bottle for a couple weeks, it's funky & gushing.
Several of my buddies got together & went there.
Their 1st attempt gave these results, so they were given a free session.
The 2nd results were the same.
So, they never went back.

But, some folks think the place is great.
Vine Park
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: tonyp on April 16, 2011, 01:55:14 AM
And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed.

Funnily enough, i brewed with some friends for a few years, moved and forgot about it and 12 yrs later a Mr Beer got me back into brewing...Now i have more equipment than room to store it, and i'm loving every minute of it! :)

Tony
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: tonyp on April 16, 2011, 01:58:28 AM
To keep this on topic, here in south jersey we have a really great BoP place which is also my closest LHBS.  Everyone is friendly, professional and extremely knowledgable. I've never used the BoP but I looked over the equipment and recipes and it seems like a damn good time for a few friends to spend the day doing it.

The Brewer's Apprentice (http://www.brewapp.com/bop.html)

Cheers!
Tony
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: tygo on April 16, 2011, 02:15:30 AM
And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed. At least one of them.

Yep, same here.  My wife bought me a Mr. Beer Kit for my birthday several years ago.  In retrospect, knowing what she does now, I think she would have probably bought me a watch  ;D
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: corkybstewart on April 16, 2011, 02:55:26 AM
There's a place in Albuquerque who shall remain un-named that offers BoP and sell their own beers at their brewpub.  My daughter had her 21st birthday there but we left after about 3 or 4 beers because they all tasted the same.  Literally their Belgian blonde tasted just like the ESB and whatever the other beer we had.  My daughter grew up drinking quality beer and she was pretty disgusted(and drunk) but she never went back there.
IIRC the cost was around $85 per 5 gallons of 5.5% ABV beer with your own bottles, more if you "rented" theirs, and I have no idea if that was extract or AG.  It might have been a great way to spend an afternoon with friends, but so is hanging out in my garage brewing 10 gallons of quality beer for $40.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: bluesman on April 16, 2011, 03:13:37 AM
It might have been a great way to spend an afternoon with friends, but so is hanging out in my garage brewing 10 gallons of quality beer for $40.

This is my sentiment exactly.  :)

I quess my beef with this stems from the quality aspect. I love the idea of promoting homebrewing but to sacrifice quality in an effort to sustain business goes against the very principles by which we stand for.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: tonyp on April 16, 2011, 03:19:05 AM
I love the idea of promoting homebrewing but to sacrifice quality in an effort to sustain business goes against the very principles by which we stand for.

So say we all!
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: gmac on April 16, 2011, 04:20:43 AM
I'm not saying you couldn't make a decent beer at a BYO or BOP or whatever you prefer but I am saying you can't make a decent beer when 2/3 of the fermentables are glucose syrup.  I guess I was just expecting someone in that business to be a bit more "into" it.  I know it's a business and I should have mentioned that this was the owner, not an employee or anything.  I'm happy that I can get pale malt there despite the fact she had to check the catalog to see what "2-row" was.

I'm on a couple committees and one of our members wanted to go to one of these places to make beer for a fundraiser we were having and I was pretty much against it.  They did it anyway and they had lots left over.  Couldn't even fool the Coors Light drinkers into thinking it was good. 

I often tell people that if I was lost in a scorching, dusty desert, walking with nothing to drink for 3 days and I came upon a Coors Light I'd be very happy...because by then I'd need to wash my feet.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: denny on April 16, 2011, 03:16:31 PM
I quess my beef with this stems from the quality aspect. I love the idea of promoting homebrewing but to sacrifice quality in an effort to sustain business goes against the very principles by which we stand for.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges, Ron.  AFAIAC, the BOP is a very different creature with a different reason for being than what we do.  The people who go there _aren't_ interested in homebrewing, they're interested in making beer with a slight hands on approach.  That may eventually lead them to discover what we all have, but I don't think it's right to think of a BOP in the same terms as what we do.  And again, my experience is that the people who run BOPs are interested in quality, but for a different reason than we are.  But their customers are only interested in quality up to a point and a smart businessperson give the customer what they want.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: bluesman on April 16, 2011, 03:38:36 PM
I quess my beef with this stems from the quality aspect. I love the idea of promoting homebrewing but to sacrifice quality in an effort to sustain business goes against the very principles by which we stand for.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges, Ron.  AFAIAC, the BOP is a very different creature with a different reason for being than what we do.  The people who go there _aren't_ interested in homebrewing, they're interested in making beer with a slight hands on approach.  That may eventually lead them to discover what we all have, but I don't think it's right to think of a BOP in the same terms as what we do.  And again, my experience is that the people who run BOPs are interested in quality, but for a different reason than we are.  But their customers are only interested in quality up to a point and a smart businessperson give the customer what they want.

Perhaps you're right, in that if a business thrives on supplying a product that customers like...it's a win win situation for both parties. I certainly don't want to rain on anybody's parade. I think that it's just my perception (bordering beer snobbery) that there's a lack of quality that is inherent in the process that I'm hearing about. That said, I haven't used the BOP product so I'm taking second hand information and passing judgement which really isn't fair to the BOP's. I'm a big proponent of "don't knock it until you try it". I try to keep an open mind with any product or service that will support our hobby.

I think you may be right about the consumer's desires to have a "slight hands on approach" to homebrewing, this could lead them further, and I would only encourage folks to take this path if they want to get a feel for homebrewing as a hobby or craft. Now that you mention it, this can also be an educational experience for homebrewers.
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: punatic on April 16, 2011, 06:02:04 PM
I think many of us have done our own version of BOP.

More times than I can remember I've been asked, "Can I buy some of your beer?  I'm having a (party, wedding reception, fishing trip...) and would like to serve some."

My answer was always the same, "I cannot sell you my beer, but if you buy the ingredients, and help me brew it we can serve some great beer at your (party, wedding reception, fishing trip...)."  And more times than I can remember that's exactly what happened.

As it happens, I reconnected with a good friend promoting his rumcakes in Costco yesterday, "Hey Carl, I've got a big promotion coming up on your side of the island in May.  I want to serve some homemade beer.  Can you sell me some? ..."
Title: Re: Brew Your Own place
Post by: wuertele on May 09, 2011, 09:13:01 PM
I would never have got into brewing if it hadn't been for my local BoP.   I bought a BoP cupon for a friend, then he asked me to do it with him.  The BoP ("Berkeley Brewhaus") went out of business, which forced me to discover my local homebrew supply store, and since then I've gone all grain and taken the bjcp test.  I even have a website dedicated to brewing systems (http://brewbot.org/breweries).

If Berkeley Brewhaus hadn't gone under, I might never have had a strong enough excuse for SWMBO to let me spend money on this hobby like I have!