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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: dmtaylor on April 20, 2011, 07:58:25 PM

Title: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: dmtaylor on April 20, 2011, 07:58:25 PM
I can't help but be hypercritical of the relatively new "style" called Black IPA or Cascadian Dark Ale.  Answer me this -- How is it much different from existing BJCP style categories, including:

12B Robust Porter -- allowed to be heavily hopped
13E American Stout -- many of them fit here and aren't far from the benchmark, Rogue Shakespeare Stout
13F Russian Imperial Stout -- any of your stronger versions likely fit here

To those who think Black IPA is the next big thing -- Please take a step back and ask yourself, is it not just a big bunch of hype, and in reality just more of the same?  If you want to be a trendsetter, more power to you, as there is ground to be broken in many areas, but don't expect educated jerks like me to give you any credit for reinventing the wheel.   :o

Another peeve of mine is that the term Black IPA is inherently illogical, for if it were spelled out, it would be a contradiction in itself.  A black pale ale?  Really?!  Which is it -- black, or pale?  Just silly.  Call it Cascadian Dark if you must, but don't make yourself look like an idiot by calling it both black and pale.   ::)

What are your thoughts?  Don't care?  No pants?  Shut up?  Ah, yes... the likely response from your typical Gen X/Y/Z American....   :-\

/rant
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: denny on April 20, 2011, 08:07:49 PM
I agree completely with your points, Dave.  I've had this discussion with a lot of beer geek friends and the overwhelming consensus is that it's a fading fad.  Not that people won't keep making them, but it seems like there are more people who don't care for them than who do.  As much as I enjoy a hoppy American style stout or robust porter, I have found the flavors of a black IPA (I hate typing that but I find it less ridiculous than Cascadian Dark Ale!) to just not work for me.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: glastctbrew on April 20, 2011, 08:16:00 PM
I agree with you Dave, when I think about it, but I usually just ignore the hype/debate/fad/insert what ever else you want to call it  ???.  If it makes them happy and keeps them interested in being creative it's cool.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gmac on April 20, 2011, 08:16:15 PM
Well, I guess I'll throw my opinion out there too.  No one's going to agree with me anyway but here's what I think.
IPA's are british beers brewed with higher alcohol and hops for shipment to India.  It's already a beer style.  To me, that's where it should have ended.  I don't personally even agree with the concept of an "American" IPA.  I think they just fell into the IPA concept because they were stronger and hoppier but I'm not a fan of US hop bombs in general.  So a "Black IPA" is ridiculous and "Cascadian Dark Ale" is just a nod to the North Pacific C hops as far as I can tell.  I probably won't ever brew one but I will brew a robust porter and it may be an awful lot like what someone else would call a CDA.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 20, 2011, 08:18:02 PM
Well, on the black and pale ale thing: I'm not sure India Pale Ales were necessarily called "pale ales" because of their color back in the 1800s.  It's just a name, like porter...what's porter mean?  Stout doesn't describe a color of the beer...but the flavor of it; the color is just implied to be dark.  Amber ale refers to the color of the beer explicitly.  ESB doesn't, pilsner doesn't, lambic doesn't, etc.  My point is, a beer's style name doesn't necessarily have to refer to it's color, but whatever else.  Does Pilsner not refer to a region, such as Pilsen in the Czech Republic?  India pale ale just refers to the beer that was taken from from Britain to India.

Note: I'm playing Devil's  Advocate here, more or less.  I think black IPA is contradictory as well, but thinking about it, it may not be as ridiculous as it seems on the surface.  Afterall, it's just a name.  And yes, Cascadian Dark Ale does refer to a region, but 1) it sounds retarded 2) the style is debated to have started on the east coast, not the pacific NW.
American black ale makes sense, india black ale sounds good too...

Catch my drift?
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: bluesman on April 20, 2011, 08:19:33 PM
I've had a few examples that were okay but I like my IPA's ...well let's just say pale. I wasn't super impressed with any of the examples that I've had, not to say they were bad because they were okay.

I find the slight roast present in them to be a distraction from the main event which is the "hops with a supporting malt presence".

They are in my estimation variations of American Stouts. I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from making one but if I want a dark hoppy beer, I much prefer the stouts and porters. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 20, 2011, 08:21:51 PM
Well, I guess I'll throw my opinion out there too.  No one's going to agree with me anyway but here's what I think.
IPA's are british beers brewed with higher alcohol and hops for shipment to India.  It's already a beer style.  To me, that's where it should have ended.  I don't personally even agree with the concept of an "American" IPA.  I think they just fell into the IPA concept because they were stronger and hoppier but I'm not a fan of US hop bombs in general.  So a "Black IPA" is ridiculous and "Cascadian Dark Ale" is just a nod to the North Pacific C hops as far as I can tell.  I probably won't ever brew one but I will brew a robust porter and it may be an awful lot like what someone else would call a CDA.

Well, you have a point, however I think styles should be allowed to evolve.  India pale ale evolved into a style, not just a beer that came from a region.  And that's why I think Crossdressing Amateur (CDA) is a ridiculous name for a style.
The beer that was adapted from a style allows that style to evolve into what it is today.  CDA is basically saying that those beers are brewed with only ingredients coming from the NW, which isn't true.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: denny on April 20, 2011, 08:29:53 PM
Well, on the black and pale ale thing: I'm not sure India Pale Ales were necessarily called "pale ales" because of their color back in the 1800s.  It's just a name, like porter...what's porter mean?

Yeah, pale ales were named that because of their color supposedly.  Up until that time, due to primitive kilning capabilities, most malts came out very dark.  Technology provided a way to make lighter colored malts and pale ales were born.  Here's an explanation of porter from Martyn Cornell's Zythophile....

"A version of the start of porter was given by a brewer called John Tuck, author of the Private Brewer’s Guide to the Art of Brewing Ale and Porter, published 1822, Tuck said that around the time of Queen Anne, early in the 18th century, London’s brewers. who sold a “heavy and glutinous” brown beer, started to come under pressure from the brewers of paler beers, which were popular with the country gentry now buying themselves houses in the capital. About 1720., Tuck said, London’s brewers brought out an “improved” brown beer “started, well hopped, into butts, and … kept a considerable time to grow mellow.” This, he said was the “intire butt beer” that caught on with the working, or portering classes, and became known as porter."
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Pinski on April 20, 2011, 08:30:52 PM
 I have a keg of Secession CDA on tap at home right next to keg of a Rogue Shakepeare Oatmeal Stout clone.  I love them both and to me they are nothing alike. The CDA is a deeply dark ruby explosion of NW hops yet remarkably unheavy.  The stout is a midnight black, creamy coffle, silk train.  Both delicious and decidedly different.  Most of the other "CDA/Black IPA's" that I have tried have been underwhelming so I wouldn't be surprised to see this "trend" fade out. I don't like the name Black IPA but I have no problem calling a beer brewed in Oregon, Wa, or Vancouver whatever Cascadian Dark Ale if we're using NW ingredients to brew a regional interpretation of "dark hoppy ale" that perhaps has been around for centuries. Maybe it's not a "style" it's own, but Secession is delicious, dark and made it the NorthWest and that's good enough for me.  
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: denny on April 20, 2011, 08:32:06 PM
Well, you have a point, however I think styles should be allowed to evolve.

Of course they should, and demand will determine that AFAIAC.  My point is that I think it's more of an "I brew it because I can" fad than an actual style on its way to happening.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: JKL on April 20, 2011, 08:39:43 PM
I've had a few examples that were okay but I like my IPA's ...well let's just say pale. I wasn't super impressed with any of the examples that I've had, not to say they were bad because they were okay.

I find the slight roast present in them to be a distraction from the main event which is the "hops with a supporting malt presence".

They are in my estimation variations of American Stouts. I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from making one but if I want a dark hoppy beer, I much prefer the stouts and porters. Just my opinion.

A few weeks ago I was at a store in Dallas eye-balling Stone's Sublimely Self-Righteous Ale when the guy working there started telling me how good it was.  Not knowing anything about the beer, I told him that I'm not a huge fan of IIPA's and that I really didn't care for Stone's Ruination.  He said the beer was completely different and I should give it a go.  I did.  I actually cracked it last Sat after a super long brew day and was at 1st taken a back looking at the color.  Now, I can't say there was anything Sublime or uhhh-Righteous about the beer but there was definetly something sensory going on there.  Maybe it was just the horribly stressful day I had but I kinda thought it was cool staring into that dark glass and getting something totally different when I put it to my lips.  Don't get me wrong, I won't be brewing one anytime soon or buying another one for that matter.  All I'm saying is that it was kind of a strange experience.  For what ever that's worth.
-J.K.L.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: denny on April 20, 2011, 08:56:14 PM
All I'm saying is that it was kind of a strange experience.

That was exactly how I felt the first time I tried one.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: ckpash88 on April 20, 2011, 09:06:39 PM
If it looks like a black ipa and taste likes a black ipa but Chuck Norris says it's a pilsener than it's a pilsener
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: jeffy on April 20, 2011, 09:21:29 PM
Crossdressing Amateur
That's what I'm calling this "style" from now on.
I refuse to call it Cascadian because it probably originated with the late great Greg Noonan in Vermont.
I don't like calling it Black Pale Ale because that's stupid.
I find the better examples pretty good in that they look darker than they taste, giving it an interesting juxtaposition.  More refreshing than a stout or a porter with just the tiniest bit of roast.  The ones I don't care for are the overly roasty ones.  The flavors just don't seem pleasant to me.
Yes, I too think it's a fad.  Last year it was IIPA, a couple of years ago everybody was making Saisons.  Before that it was wood-aged beers.  When will it be Ordinary Bitter?
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gmac on April 20, 2011, 09:30:01 PM
I think ordinary bitters were big in 1743 through 1749. You just missed it is all.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Pinski on April 20, 2011, 09:33:15 PM
Crossdressing Amateur
That's what I'm calling this "style" from now on.
I refuse to call it Cascadian because it probably originated with the late great Greg Noonan in Vermont.
I don't like calling it Black Pale Ale because that's stupid.
I find the better examples pretty good in that they look darker than they taste, giving it an interesting juxtaposition.  More refreshing than a stout or a porter with just the tiniest bit of roast.  The ones I don't care for are the overly roasty ones.  The flavors just don't seem pleasant to me.
Yes, I too think it's a fad.  Last year it was IIPA, a couple of years ago everybody was making Saisons.  Before that it was wood-aged beers.  When will it be Ordinary Bitter?

Seems to me like it already is.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: smoga on April 20, 2011, 09:40:14 PM
....  When will it be Ordinary Bitter?

The one of the guys in the local Brewing club has started a annual celebration of Ordinary bitter - essentially, low gravity cask conditioned ales - it flies in the face of the "bigger is better" trend in brewing. You never know; It could be getting trendy...
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gordonstrong on April 20, 2011, 09:46:26 PM
I recently turned in a "Session Beers" article to BYO.  So somebody's interested.

I talked on another thread about going to Blackstone in Nashville and getting perfectly normal beers, well crafted.  It was so refreshing.  I'm so tired of extreme everything.  How about something you can actually drink rather than just sample?
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: micsager on April 20, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
I brewed a W10 Black IPA clone that was in BYO last year.  I've tweaked the recipe a bit, and now it's one of my staples.  I don't really care whether it's a new "style" or not.  I like it.

What I'd like to know is the history of other "new" beer styles.  There are many recognized styles that are not all that different, so maybe these should have their own as well. 

As for the "black IPA" being an oxymoron, big deal.  There are many such phrases in our language.



Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: anthony on April 20, 2011, 11:56:12 PM
I almost think that the competition mentality pushes a lot of brewers, commercial and homebrew, into these "extreme everything" sorts of phases. You enter a bunch of well-brewed beers into a competition that target the lower to middle end of the style guidelines and be confused when you receive a bunch of 30's back on your score sheets...

One experiment I'd like to do one of these days is enter fresh, well-cared for commercial examples into a home brew competition, making sure that the organizers are aware of it and exclude them from ribbon contention. In categories like Pale Ale, IPA, Stout, and Strong Ales, I doubt the commercial beers would consistently place in the top-3 and it isn't because homebrewed beers are so much better than commercial beer; it is more about the lack of emphasis on drinkability in judging... just my 2c anyhow.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Will's Swill on April 21, 2011, 12:53:49 AM
I'll go against most of the grain here and say that I actually enjoy this style, whatever you'd like to call it.  It's actually somewhat amusing that there's so much angst about how to name the style.  Seriously, this is worth getting worked up about?  I call mine a Colorado Black Ale, but whatever.  Anyway, I got turned on to, uh, black, hoppy, not-pale ales when trying the original Avery New World Porter.  REALLY liked that.  They replaced it in their line up with their Baltic Porter, which to me was not nearly as good.  Now it's back, but they seemed to have changed it up in response to what I admit is a bit faddish and I don't find it the same. 

I don't know if the style has legs or if it should be included as part of existing styles.  But then there are a bunch of more similar style categories out there already, witness Lite American Lager, Standard American Lager, Premium American Lager, Cat Piss, the list goes on.  Examples that  I enjoy of the beer style that shall not be named (and I admit good examples are hard to find commercially) have more finishing hops than a robust porter, and less roast and way more finishing hops than the various stouts.

Does it deserve it's own category?  Who cares!

Should it be called Black IPA?  Well, any craft beer drinker that comes across a Black IPA would know exactly what is meant by the name without having ever heard the name before, despite the misnomer.  Cascadian Dark Ale?  Maybe.

OK folks, the fire extinguisher is handy...
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: maxieboy on April 21, 2011, 01:24:32 AM
To each his own. Heard of it, never had it, not really interested in brewing it. The classics, well made, are where it's at maaannn...  8)
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: ckpash88 on April 21, 2011, 04:24:39 AM
Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one and they all stink. Like you said to each their own. You can't rag on a person for what they like it's like being mad at the sky for being blue.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 21, 2011, 05:13:53 AM
Put me in the column of "it's not the same as a porter or stout".  Why do I say that?  Because I really like porters and stouts.  CDAs . . . they're growing on me, but it wasn't love at first sip.  A CDA is to an IPA what a Schwarzbier is to a Pilsner.  Is it a passing fad?  I don't know, but I see an awful lot of them around here, with more coming out all of the time.  Should it have it's own style?  I think that's up to Gordon. ;)

As for the name . . . I refuse to call it a Black IPA.  Don't like the name CDA?  Come up with something else, I don't care as long as it makes some sense.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Will's Swill on April 21, 2011, 05:15:31 AM
Amen.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: pyrite on April 21, 2011, 05:50:34 AM
Put me in the column of "it's not the same as a porter or stout".  Why do I say that?  Because I really like porters and stouts.  CDAs . . . they're growing on me, but it wasn't love at first sip.  A CDA is to an IPA what a Schwarzbier is to a Pilsner.  Is it a passing fad?  I don't know, but I see an awful lot of them around here, with more coming out all of the time.  Should it have it's own style?  I think that's up to Gordon. ;)

As for the name . . . I refuse to call it a Black IPA.  Don't like the name CDA?  Come up with something else, I don't care as long as it makes some sense.

umm, perhaps Sublimely Self-Righteous Ale, like stone calls it. I don't know if the fad has even reached the masses yet.  I don't even think the masses even know the style exists.

Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: bluesman on April 21, 2011, 11:42:28 AM
I've had a few examples that were okay but I like my IPA's ...well let's just say pale. I wasn't super impressed with any of the examples that I've had, not to say they were bad because they were okay.

I find the slight roast present in them to be a distraction from the main event which is the "hops with a supporting malt presence".

They are in my estimation variations of American Stouts. I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from making one but if I want a dark hoppy beer, I much prefer the stouts and porters. Just my opinion.
All I'm saying is that it was kind of a strange experience.  For what ever that's worth.
-J.K.L.

After all of the hype over this beer my expectations were set pretty high, so suffice it to say that after I tasted one for the first time I was sadly disappointed.

The beer style may grow on me but for now it's "meh".
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: jeffy on April 21, 2011, 11:45:30 AM
It really depends on which example you tried.  They all seem to have drastically different levels of roast.  I like the less roasty ones.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: bluesman on April 21, 2011, 01:41:01 PM
It really depends on which example you tried.  They all seem to have drastically different levels of roast.  I like the less roasty ones.

Right.

I tried Yakima Glory (BA gives it a B+), Black Cannon (BA gives a B+) and Stone Sublimey (BA gives a A-). I preferred the Black Cannon of the three but again I like my IPA's and then I like my Souts and Porters. YMMV.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: JKL on April 21, 2011, 01:59:37 PM
I like my IPA's and then I like my Stouts and Porters.
+1 

I think the next time I want a commercial, black as night, high test, high IBU ale. I'll just pick up some Old Raspy. ;)
-J.K.L.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Malticulous on April 21, 2011, 02:03:42 PM
Most aren't roasty enough to do well in existing styles. I entered an American Stout in to a recent comp that was months older than prime. The roast had mellowed out. The Judges both said it would have been better entered as a CDA in specialty beers. I don't think it was hoppy enough to be like a IPA. I think a specialty category in IPA  would be the best place for them.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: johnf on April 21, 2011, 02:08:11 PM

As for the name . . . I refuse to call it a Black IPA.  Don't like the name CDA?  Come up with something else, I don't care as long as it makes some sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? Because they aren't pale? We live with Imperial IPA which is not got anything to do with imperialism and Double IPA which are not double of a normal IPA and barleywine which are not wine as wine is made from must and I could go on and on. Why is this one misnomer the one everyone is hung up on?

Back in the 90s when Greg Noonan and John Maier were making these and most of the people advocating the CDA name (or the idea that these were recently invented) were in diapers, nobody seemed to mind having them described as black IPA. I think normal rational people that are trying to communicate and not be pedantic understand what that means.

The more interesting question to me is whether or not there has ever been a campaign to name a beer style before? It seems like in recent history John Maier could call a beer Imperial IPA and Vinnie Cilurzo could call a beer Double IPA and the names just stuck without a bunch of pedantic nerds telling them that the names were technically wrong and proposing a self serving alternative.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: maxieboy on April 21, 2011, 02:16:26 PM
"Pedantic nerds."   

 (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/watchdrama8jm.gif)
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: jeffy on April 21, 2011, 03:49:27 PM
"Pedantic nerds."   

 (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/watchdrama8jm.gif)

Cross Dressing Amateurs  :D
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tumarkin on April 21, 2011, 03:55:30 PM
"Pedantic nerds."   

 (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/watchdrama8jm.gif)

Cross Dressing Amateurs  :D
love the name, and with the right artwork it would make a great beer label. but.... if you're not talking to a pedantic beer nerd, just think of the explanation process......

I want a CDA, that's a Cross Dressing Amateur. We call it that rather than the original Cascadian Dark Ale because...... and because the other name, Black IPA, doesn't make sense...... What, what's that you say? Why doesn't it make sense? Well, because......


Just stick with Black IPA & leave it at that.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Janis on April 21, 2011, 04:05:57 PM
Hi all,

I just want to point out that Category 23 Specialty Ale had a HUGE jump in entries in the National Homebrew Competition all 9 US First Round competitions this year due to this fad style.  If I were to guess, I'd say the cat 23 entries were about double the number from last year. 

Cheers,
     Janis
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 21, 2011, 04:16:51 PM
As for the name . . . I refuse to call it a Black IPA.  Don't like the name CDA?  Come up with something else, I don't care as long as it makes some sense.
Why doesn't it make sense? Because they aren't pale? We live with Imperial IPA which is not got anything to do with imperialism and Double IPA which are not double of a normal IPA and barleywine which are not wine as wine is made from must and I could go on and on. Why is this one misnomer the one everyone is hung up on?
All of the ones you mention are references to strength and make sense in that context.  Something can't be black and pale, no more than it can be invisible and pink.

Back in the 90s when Greg Noonan and John Maier were making these and most of the people advocating the CDA name (or the idea that these were recently invented) were in diapers, nobody seemed to mind having them described as black IPA. I think normal rational people that are trying to communicate and not be pedantic understand what that means.
I understand what is meant (not saying I'm normal or rational), I said it doesn't make sense.  I didn't invent the name CDA and don't care one way or the other if that is what people call it, and I never said a brewer can't call their beer whatever they like or that they have to consult me when they name them.  The day brewers start doing things based on what I like they will all open up within walking distance of my house, give me free beer, not make any American hefes, and have a smoke beer in the rotation.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 21, 2011, 04:31:06 PM
Just stick with Black IPA & leave it at that.
Mark, I can't wait for you to try my Pale Northern English Brown, and my Black Belgian Golden Strong. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gordonstrong on April 21, 2011, 04:32:25 PM
You forgot to include a prohibition on the use of peat malt in your rant.  Just trying to help...
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 04:34:03 PM
Some of these names are getting rather oxymoronic:

Black India PALE Ale - so it it black or is it pale?  Lol  (I know - it's black but the name is funny).

Now a 'Pale' Northern English Brown - so it is pal or is it brown?  ;) 


Shouldn't we be calling 'Black IPA's' IBA?  India Black Ale?  Seems more fitting.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gmac on April 21, 2011, 04:54:45 PM
But why India at all?  It's never been to India and probably not going to India.  It has alcohol and hops in it, doesn't mean that India has to be part of it.
Call it American Black Ale if you like but I don't get why it has to refer to IPA.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 05:00:00 PM
But why India at all?  It's never been to India and probably not going to India.  It has alcohol and hops in it, doesn't mean that India has to be part of it.
Call it American Black Ale if you like but I don't get why it has to refer to IPA.

IPA came about because the regular pale ale the Brits were shipping off to their troops in India was arriving 'stale'.  They added more hops (a natural preservative) to help extend the beers shelf life and help it make the journey to India and arrive still drinkable.

This concludes IPA 101.  ;) 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: redbeerman on April 21, 2011, 05:04:24 PM
How about Black Ale?
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gmac on April 21, 2011, 05:04:34 PM
IPA came about because the regular pale ale the Brits were shipping off to their troops in India was arriving 'stale'.  They added more hops (a natural preservative) to help extend the beers shelf life and help it make the journey to India and arrive still drinkable.

This concludes IPA 101.  ;)  

Thanks but I understand where and how IPA was developed.  Don't really need IPA 101.  My point is that it is already a style.  As people started adding more and more hops and upping the alcohol content, it morphed into American IPA which is a lot different than traditional IPA.  It seems to have retained the I portion of the name because it was heavier hopped and higher alcohol from what I can gather. That seems to be the only thing tying this to an IPA.
When people started brewing stronger porters with roasted barley, the name changed to stout porter, eventually the stout dropped off and became it's own style.  I'm saying this is far enough removed from IPA to drop the India reference.
Like the post above says, American Black Ale                   
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: jeffy on April 21, 2011, 05:08:57 PM
Our friends at Swamp Head Brewery in Gainesville named theirs "Floridian Dark Ale"
I like it.  Perhaps everyone should have a regional version and name.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: dmtaylor on April 21, 2011, 05:11:02 PM
You forgot to include a prohibition on the use of peat malt in your rant.  Just trying to help...

Oh-ho.... peat smoked malt is acceptable, but only in quantities of 0.5 ounce or less per 5 gallons.  My recent Scotch ale proved this to myself.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gordonstrong on April 21, 2011, 05:26:06 PM
Thanks but I understand where and how IPA was developed.  Don't really need IPA 101.  My point is that it is already a style.  As people started adding more and more hops and upping the alcohol content, it morphed into American IPA which is a lot different than traditional IPA.  It seems to have retained the I portion of the name because it was heavier hopped and higher alcohol from what I can gather. That seems to be the only thing tying this to an IPA.

American Pale Ale started the same way as American IPA.  The only difference is that you were around and paying attention when it happened.  American brewers all call their products IPAs.  They used to be in the same judging category.  If you made a traditional IPA, it would do horribly because judges would expect the American version.  So we split them.  I invented the names American IPA and English IPA to distinguish them for judging purposes.  It's a shorthand.  People understand what it means.  If you say "Black IPA" then I understand it's an IPA with sinamar.  If you say "Imperial Brown IPA", I know it's a strong IPA with chocolate malt.  If you say "American Dark Ale", I don't know if you mean a porter, a stout, a black IPA, or something else.  Category names don't have to mean something historically.  Was anything ever called "Classic American Pilsner" or a "Northern German Altbier"?

If you've got a better system, let's hear it.  What the BJCP does is meant to simplify judging; it's impossible to get it to align to every beer in the marketplace and what each of them is called.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: ccarlson on April 21, 2011, 05:30:25 PM
But why India at all?  It's never been to India and probably not going to India.  It has alcohol and hops in it, doesn't mean that India has to be part of it.
Call it American Black Ale if you like but I don't get why it has to refer to IPA.

I agree. The name makes no sense to me either.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 21, 2011, 05:46:49 PM
Some of these names are getting rather oxymoronic:

Black India PALE Ale - so it it black or is it pale?  Lol  (I know - it's black but the name is funny).

Now a 'Pale' Northern English Brown - so it is pal or is it brown?  ;) 


Shouldn't we be calling 'Black IPA's' IBA?  India Black Ale?  Seems more fitting.

Well, guy, there are white Africans, thus there could be white African Americans...what be your point, son?
Do white people born in Africa go by something other than African?  Seems we always assume African Americans are black.  We even call people African American when they're from the Dominican Republic.  Make sense?  Of course not, friend. 
I find all this labeling rather shallow and pedantic, mmmyes shallow and pedantic. Just gotta put a label on everything don't we?  Gotta claim things for our own (CDA) don't we?  What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Enough of this!

Like someone else said, American Black Ale, if you wanna put a label on it.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 05:52:39 PM
Some of these names are getting rather oxymoronic:

Black India PALE Ale - so it it black or is it pale?  Lol  (I know - it's black but the name is funny).

Now a 'Pale' Northern English Brown - so it is pal or is it brown?  ;) 


Shouldn't we be calling 'Black IPA's' IBA?  India Black Ale?  Seems more fitting.

Well, guy, there are white Africans, thus there could be white African Americans...what be your point, son?
Do white people born in Africa go by something other than African?  Seems we always assume African Americans are black.  We even call people African American when they're from the Dominican Republic.  Make sense?  Of course not, friend. 
I find all this labeling rather shallow and pedantic, mmmyes shallow and pedantic. Just gotta put a label on everything don't we?  Gotta claim things for our own (CDA) don't we?  What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Enough of this!

Like someone else said, American Black Ale, if you wanna put a label on it.

I'm not sure how the race anaolgy applies, but yeah, American IPA vs. 'original' British IPA - either way.  I was just making a funny observaton - not trying to start a debate on the subject. 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on April 21, 2011, 06:04:14 PM
Quote
All of the ones you mention are references to strength and make sense in that context.  Something can't be black and pale, no more than it can be invisible and pink.

Invisible Pink Ale, I like it.

This is not a style I expect to like (never tried it, too much homebrew to drink to drink many commercial beers and I'm not a hophead) so the RDW homebrewer in me doesn't really care...but the pedantic nerd in me says don't give it an oxymoronic name (Black and Pale) nor a historically inaccurate name (Cascadian).  Why do we have to latch onto some previously used words anyway, let's make up a new word for the style.  Like...Vermontener.  Or Sinamarian Ale.  Or Noonanian Ale.  CDA and BIPA are so unimaginative. :)  I think if I brew one I'll just call it Johnson. ;)

yay Swamp Head Brewery!
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gordonstrong on April 21, 2011, 06:16:29 PM
Sinamarian Ale

I like it.  Sounds like something they'd drink on NCC-1701.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 06:21:58 PM
Sinamarian Ale

I like it.  Sounds like something they'd drink on NCC-1701.
On that note, I've always wondered why Romulan 'Ale' is blue (and non-carbonated).  What the heck kind of grains do they grow on that planet!?  lol

Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gordonstrong on April 21, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
It's non-carbonated so they don't have to replace it between takes.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 06:27:04 PM
It's non-carbonated so they don't have to replace it between takes.

Takes?  You mean it's a show?  I thought we had a window to the future!

(I'm sure you're right - that's also why you never see ice in drinks much in TV or films - it melts between takes). 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: johnf on April 21, 2011, 06:29:37 PM
As for the name . . . I refuse to call it a Black IPA.  Don't like the name CDA?  Come up with something else, I don't care as long as it makes some sense.
Why doesn't it make sense? Because they aren't pale? We live with Imperial IPA which is not got anything to do with imperialism and Double IPA which are not double of a normal IPA and barleywine which are not wine as wine is made from must and I could go on and on. Why is this one misnomer the one everyone is hung up on?
All of the ones you mention are references to strength and make sense in that context.  Something can't be black and pale, no more than it can be invisible and pink.

Back in the 90s when Greg Noonan and John Maier were making these and most of the people advocating the CDA name (or the idea that these were recently invented) were in diapers, nobody seemed to mind having them described as black IPA. I think normal rational people that are trying to communicate and not be pedantic understand what that means.
I understand what is meant (not saying I'm normal or rational), I said it doesn't make sense.  I didn't invent the name CDA and don't care one way or the other if that is what people call it, and I never said a brewer can't call their beer whatever they like or that they have to consult me when they name them.  The day brewers start doing things based on what I like they will all open up within walking distance of my house, give me free beer, not make any American hefes, and have a smoke beer in the rotation.

Imperial only makes sense as a descriptor of high strength because you and I and the other beer drinkers agree that it does. Outside of the beer context, or by simply using denotation, Imperial makes as little sense to describe a strong beer which is unrelated to Imperialism as black IPA to describe a beer which is a lot like an IPA but black. As far as I can tell we did all agree to the general "black IPA" type terms for many years until a targeted naming campaign for a style at least 15 years old was begun last year. If brewery A wants to call theirs CDA then fine, we all know what is in the bottle basically. If brewery B wants to call it Black IPA, same story. The only people that I think need to figure out what to call it are bodies like the BA and BJCP that may need to promulgate a description of the style. I don't see why the rest of us should deeply care what they or what the individual breweries call it. If the consumer has an idea of what is in the bottle or what is going to come out of the tap, mission accomplished.

I think beer styles are misnomers nearly as often as they aren't. I do not understand the fixation on this one in particular. I mean, weissbier isn't white, amiright? Let's campaign to call it Bavarian Straw to maybe Amberish Ale. I'm sure they'll appreciate our efforts and our correction on the meaning of the word white.

Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: dmtaylor on April 21, 2011, 06:32:25 PM
LOL (to the Star Trek references)!  (and I thought I'd never use the term LOL)

Seriously, folks... about 99% of these black colored ales would fit just perfectly into either the existing Robust Porter or American Stout categories.  I think it's time to wake up and smell what's already been out there for many many years.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: bluesman on April 21, 2011, 06:50:58 PM
I think that styles will evolve and develop as they have since the development of lighter colored lagers during the 19th century. As can be witnessed by this thread, we are continuing to see this development. It's an evolutionary process of sorts and as the craft beer movement continues to evolve at it's current pace, we will be challenged as a community to grasp and embrace these developments.

We are witnessing the largest craft beer movement in history. Microbreweries have been popping up all over the country at a record pace and as they do, we will continue to see more and more beer styles development over time. BTW...I think it's a beautiful thing.

Don't resist it...you can't stop it.  ;)
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 06:59:50 PM
I think that styles will evolve and develop as they have since the development of lighter colored lagers during the 19th century. As can be witnessed by this thread, we are continuing to see this development. It's an evolutionary process of sorts and as the craft beer movement continues to evolve at it's current pace, we will be challenged as a community to grasp and embrace these developments.

We are witnessing the largest craft beer movement in history. Microbreweries have been popping up all over the country at a record pace and as they do, we will continue to see more and more beer styles development over time. BTW...I think it's a beautiful thing.

Don't resist it...you can't stop it.  ;)
Who wants to restrict it/stop it?  I LOVE it!  We've had several new breweries open up in Seattle in just the past year alone - and more are coming.  :) 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Hokerer on April 21, 2011, 07:02:54 PM
[Like someone else said, American Black Ale, if you wanna put a label on it.

Isn't that just about exactly what the Brewer's Association did with their guidelines...

American-Style Black Ale
American-style Black Ale is perceived to have medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol content, balanced with a medium body. Fruity, floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute character. The style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent.
Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012-1.018
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on April 21, 2011, 07:05:10 PM
I had 'Romulan Ale' at the Star Trek Encounter (or whatever it was called) at the Hilton in Las Vegas years ago.  It was just beer with food coloring.

IMO, way more pressing than all this 'American Schwarzbier' business is the 'European Amber Lager' category with only two subcategories. Why not just call it 'Amber Lager' and add 'American Amber Lager' in the style of Brooklyn Lager and even Boston Lager?   Make it so number one. ;)
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Rhoobarb on April 21, 2011, 07:08:43 PM
Cream Ale.  Someone 'splain that name to me, Lucy.

I don't think CDAs are a fad and I don't agree they are the same as Stouts or Porters.  No, sir.  Well made, they can be very tasty.  It's just that there are few well made ones out there.  Oakshire is the only one that comes to mind for me right now.  Unfortunately, I can't get it here.

The debate rages on... (http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/yuck_125.gif)

Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: morticaixavier on April 21, 2011, 07:14:48 PM
Cream Ale.  Someone 'splain that name to me, Lucy.

I don't think CDAs are a fad and I don't agree they are the same as Stouts or Porters.  No, sir.  Well made, they can be very tasty.  It's just that there are few well made ones out there.  Oakshire is the only one that comes to mind for me right now.  Unfortunately, I can't get it here.

The debate rages on... (http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/yuck_125.gif)



I LOVE the dead horse emoticon! and on topic, I was under the impressions that the difference between a (CDA, BIPA, ABA...) and an american stout or robust porter is the roast flavour. where the noonanian ale is dark in color it has very little roast flavour. I have heard about using debittered roast barley and adding it at the end of the mash to get color but not much else. It seems like the BA guidlines posted earlier support this as well.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 07:15:56 PM
Cream Ale.  Someone 'splain that name to me, Lucy.

I don't think CDAs are a fad and I don't agree they are the same as Stouts or Porters.  No, sir.  Well made, they can be very tasty.  It's just that there are few well made ones out there.  Oakshire is the only one that comes to mind for me right now.  Unfortunately, I can't get it here.

The debate rages on... (http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/yuck_125.gif)



I believe 'Cream Ale' is called that due to the creamy nitro head on it. 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: morticaixavier on April 21, 2011, 07:19:17 PM
Cream Ale.  Someone 'splain that name to me, Lucy.

I don't think CDAs are a fad and I don't agree they are the same as Stouts or Porters.  No, sir.  Well made, they can be very tasty.  It's just that there are few well made ones out there.  Oakshire is the only one that comes to mind for me right now.  Unfortunately, I can't get it here.

The debate rages on... (http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/yuck_125.gif)



I believe 'Cream Ale' is called that due to the creamy nitro head on it. 

I never had a genesee on nitro! might that make it drinkable?
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Rhoobarb on April 21, 2011, 07:23:48 PM
I believe 'Cream Ale' is called that due to the creamy nitro head on it. 
Are you thinking of Boddington's?  It isn't a Cream Ale. Cream Ales aren't normally served on Nitrogen.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Beer Monger on April 21, 2011, 07:24:40 PM
Cream Ale.  Someone 'splain that name to me, Lucy.

I don't think CDAs are a fad and I don't agree they are the same as Stouts or Porters.  No, sir.  Well made, they can be very tasty.  It's just that there are few well made ones out there.  Oakshire is the only one that comes to mind for me right now.  Unfortunately, I can't get it here.

The debate rages on... (http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/yuck_125.gif)



I believe 'Cream Ale' is called that due to the creamy nitro head on it. 

I never had a genesee on nitro! might that make it drinkable?

I never had a genesee period.  Not too good, I take it? 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 21, 2011, 07:47:08 PM
[Like someone else said, American Black Ale, if you wanna put a label on it.

Isn't that just about exactly what the Brewer's Association did with their guidelines...

American-Style Black Ale
American-style Black Ale is perceived to have medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol content, balanced with a medium body. Fruity, floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute character. The style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent.
Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012-1.018

Touché, guy.

This is all silliness.  Sinamarian Ale sounds cool, but that implies Sinamar needs to be used.  Noonanian ale sounds funny...perhaps appropriate though.

Noonan!  Noooooooooonan!
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: hike20 on April 21, 2011, 08:00:00 PM
Naming debates aside, I think it's more significant to debate whether they really offer anything new enough to warrant yet another style. Pretty much all the ones I've tried taste and smell pretty much just like an American IPA. If I closed my eyes I wouldn't be able to tell a difference. A lot of good commercial IPA's I've had recently have a noticeable munich or vienna malt flavor or aroma. Does that make them a new style too? Possibly. Is it necessary?

Many feel we have too many styles now as it is. It sure makes studying for the BJCP exam a daunting task. I don't think every beer needs to fit into one of the defined styles. I would say change Cat 23 to be more open or create a "free for all" style. The problem with Cat 23 is that you have to give them a category to compare it to. It kind of discourages people from entering anything really unique in my mind.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: morticaixavier on April 21, 2011, 08:02:30 PM
Cream Ale.  Someone 'splain that name to me, Lucy.

I don't think CDAs are a fad and I don't agree they are the same as Stouts or Porters.  No, sir.  Well made, they can be very tasty.  It's just that there are few well made ones out there.  Oakshire is the only one that comes to mind for me right now.  Unfortunately, I can't get it here.

The debate rages on... (http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/images/yuck_125.gif)



I believe 'Cream Ale' is called that due to the creamy nitro head on it. 

I never had a genesee on nitro! might that make it drinkable?

I never had a genesee period.  Not too good, I take it? 

Great for killing slugs in the garden.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 21, 2011, 08:09:21 PM
What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

You forgot to include a prohibition on the use of peat malt in your rant.  Just trying to help...
Thanks Gordon. ;D  I also left out "wet hopped" beers, but I figured it was ranty enough already. ;)
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 21, 2011, 08:17:28 PM
What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Wouldn't surprise me...
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 21, 2011, 08:19:57 PM
What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Wouldn't surprise me...
It's fitting that your avatar looks a bit like Mulder.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Pinski on April 21, 2011, 08:20:36 PM
What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Say no more! It is not yet time!
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: samgamgee on April 21, 2011, 10:22:47 PM
There's too much diversity in the style right now to make this call. Let is develop for a year or two more and come back to the issue. There are still brewers using sinamar or only dehusked carafa to make their IPAs black, and others are using chocolate and black malts so you're getting completely different flavors.

If the chocolate and black malt versions end up predominating, then they really will be pretty much hoppy porters. If brewers stick to really wanting just color and as little dark malt flavor as possible, I think it will remain a unique novelty.

Cross Dressing Amateurs is a good one though.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Will's Swill on April 21, 2011, 11:59:54 PM
Whoa!  What's wrong with wet-hopped beers?!  ???
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: jeffy on April 22, 2011, 12:15:52 AM
Whoa!  What's wrong with wet-hopped beers?!  ???
They're not "wet" they're "fresh"
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Will's Swill on April 22, 2011, 02:46:58 AM
Whoa!  What's wrong with fresh-hopped beers?!
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: dmtaylor on April 22, 2011, 03:07:17 AM
Fresh hopped beers are so 2009.  Don't you all know the latest trend is triple hopped?  ;)
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Pinski on April 22, 2011, 03:08:43 AM
Well if I ever make one it's going to be a...
Crossdressing Noonanian Dark Cascade Amateur Ale.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 22, 2011, 03:19:50 AM

Cross Dressing Amateurs is a good one though.


te he....that's just how ridiculous a name I think Cascadian Dark Ale is...
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 22, 2011, 03:25:31 AM
What could be more arrogant, shallow and pedantic than the North westerners trying to claim this beer style as their own when they didn't even create it!!
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Wouldn't surprise me...
It's fitting that your avatar looks a bit like Mulder.

Except the dude in my avatar was WAY cooler than Mulder would EVER be.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 22, 2011, 03:44:15 AM
Whoa!  What's wrong with wet-hopped beers?!  ???
They're not "wet" they're "fresh"
Exactly ;D

Whoa!  What's wrong with fresh-hopped beers?!
Nothing at all, I love them! 
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: gmac on April 22, 2011, 04:09:01 AM
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Do they always meet at your house or do you move it around?  Must be hell finding enough chairs for everyone and I hope you take turns bringing snacks.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tschmidlin on April 22, 2011, 04:31:22 AM
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Do they always meet at your house or do you move it around?  Must be hell finding enough chairs for everyone and I hope you take turns bringing snacks.
You know I'm not allowed to tell you where we meet.  If you move to BC we can immediately recruit you into the cabal and then you will know all.  But until that time no can do, eh? ;D
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: morticaixavier on April 22, 2011, 05:16:25 AM
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Do they always meet at your house or do you move it around?  Must be hell finding enough chairs for everyone and I hope you take turns bringing snacks.
You know I'm not allowed to tell you where we meet.  If you move to BC we can immediately recruit you into the cabal and then you will know all.  But until that time no can do, eh? ;D

What the H, I moved to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada's like three years ago and this is the first I have heard of this cabal! what, you think I'm a narc or something?
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Pinski on April 22, 2011, 05:25:26 AM
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Do they always meet at your house or do you move it around?  Must be hell finding enough chairs for everyone and I hope you take turns bringing snacks.
You know I'm not allowed to tell you where we meet.  If you move to BC we can immediately recruit you into the cabal and then you will know all.  But until that time no can do, eh? ;D

What the H, I moved to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada's like three years ago and this is the first I have heard of this cabal! what, you think I'm a narc or something?
Gentlemen please, can we discuss this at the next meeting.  You don't find the cabal, the cabal finds you.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: bluesman on April 22, 2011, 03:24:48 PM
Yes, we all get together monthly and plot how we can name a beer after one of our mountain ranges (that runs from Canada to California).  Muahahahahahahah  ::)

Do they always meet at your house or do you move it around?  Must be hell finding enough chairs for everyone and I hope you take turns bringing snacks.
You know I'm not allowed to tell you where we meet.  If you move to BC we can immediately recruit you into the cabal and then you will know all.  But until that time no can do, eh? ;D

What the H, I moved to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada's like three years ago and this is the first I have heard of this cabal! what, you think I'm a narc or something?
Gentlemen please, can we discuss this at the next meeting.  You don't find the cabal, the cabal finds you.

Let me guess...to be a member of "The Secret Cascadian Society"....one must be wear their kilt and bring some hops to share.  ;D
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Pinski on April 22, 2011, 03:46:41 PM
I believe you're thinking of the Rocky Mountainian Dark Ale Secret Society.
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: Kit B on April 22, 2011, 03:51:40 PM
I can't believe you guys are letting the world know about your secretive brotherhood (sisterhood?).
Geez!
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: tumarkin on April 22, 2011, 03:57:05 PM
I believe you're thinking of the Rocky Mountainian Dark Ale Secret Society.
No, I think he's talking about the CDA (Cross Dressing Amateurs Cabal), certainly a fun group to belong to but they're fighting an uphill battle
Title: Re: Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale "Style"
Post by: beersk on April 22, 2011, 04:45:52 PM
I believe you're thinking of the Rocky Mountainian Dark Ale Secret Society.
No, I think he's talking about the CDA (Cross Dressing Amateurs Cabal), certainly a fun group to belong to but they're fighting an uphill battle

Yeesh, I'd hate to be apart of that cause...