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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: denny on April 21, 2011, 04:52:50 PM

Title: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on April 21, 2011, 04:52:50 PM
I think I'm gonna do a quadrupel kinda thing for my 400th batch, 2 batches away.  I'll have a slurry of WY3787 from the Patersbier I'm making this weekend.  Other than that, I'll use a bunch of Best pils malt and 1.5 lb. (liquid weight) of D2 that I've got around.  I'll check some local markets for other exotic sugars, too.  I've got a small (4 gr.?) package of grains of paradise I was thinking of using, and maybe some coriander.  What do you all think so far?  Any other ideas or suggestions?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on April 21, 2011, 05:04:29 PM
It's funny you mention this Denny. I recently purchased a tube of WLP530 that I'm planning to use for a BPA and then use the slurry from that for a Belgian Quad.

I am planning to use some Belgian Cany Syrup...maybe some D2. I like your idea of Grains of Paradise. Maybe a small addition of Special B. I'm not sure of the base malt yet. Probably a blend of Pils/Munich... :-\

I'll also be interested in seeing what kind of input you'll get here.

Definitely a long aging process. Probably a year in the glass.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on April 21, 2011, 05:41:38 PM
I like the idea of some Special B and Munich.  Maybe some CaraMunich.  The issue I keep running into is that other than the yeast, it starts sounding like Rochefort.  Not that that's a bad thing, but I'm trying to differentiate it somehow.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: gordonstrong on April 21, 2011, 06:01:33 PM
Except for the spices, what you have sounds like Westvleteren 12.

Munich, Special B and CaraMunich are all dubbel-like flavors.  If you want to make a bigger dubbel, try that.  Try dark Munich.

If you want to keep it more Barleywine-like (Scaldis/Bush), use more sugar and some CaraVienne perhaps.  See what I wrote on that for the Barleywine article in Zymurgy.

Can you describe the target profile you're seeking?  You have a good base, but it depends on what direction you want to go.  Color, flavors, attenuation, etc. are what will differentiate it based on what you add next.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: narvin on April 21, 2011, 06:50:31 PM
I wanted to try this recipe for a while.  Lots of sugars but also much more malt backbone than I've done before in a quad.

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?p=680960#p680960

I've also messed with fermentation temperature a bit.  My last quad with that yeast was pitched at 68 but fermented up to 80+ degrees.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on April 21, 2011, 08:31:39 PM
Except for the spices, what you have sounds like Westvleteren 12.

Munich, Special B and CaraMunich are all dubbel-like flavors.  If you want to make a bigger dubbel, try that.  Try dark Munich.

If you want to keep it more Barleywine-like (Scaldis/Bush), use more sugar and some CaraVienne perhaps.  See what I wrote on that for the Barleywine article in Zymurgy.

Can you describe the target profile you're seeking?  You have a good base, but it depends on what direction you want to go.  Color, flavors, attenuation, etc. are what will differentiate it based on what you add next.

Gordon, I appreciate the advice and guidance.  Part of the problem is that I haven't settled on what my "taste imagination" is telling me this beer wants to be.  I guess the key component is drinkability, with maybe some slight chocolate/rummy/raisiny notes.  I think that's why I keep conceptualizing it in terms of Rochefort.  I do love the Scaldis/Bush and Westvleteren, so now you've got me thinking more in that direction.  Being that this is a "special" beer, I'm shooting for something in the 10-12% ABV area.  I figure I've got about a month before I brew it, so it'd be great to continue this dialog with everyone and see what kind of ideas come up.

Narvin, thanks for the link to the St. Bernardus recipe from Kris.  Some interesting ideas there, too.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: gordonstrong on April 21, 2011, 08:36:12 PM
Any of those three ideas would be good.  Just don't try to do them all at once.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on April 21, 2011, 08:39:34 PM
Any of those three ideas would be good.  Just don't try to do them all at once.

Aw, where's yer sense of adventure?  ;)

Don't worry, I've come up with enough muddled recipes to know better than that!  I figure that I need to put all the skill and craft I've learned from the previous 399 batches into this.  If I dickchimp #400, I may never recover from the trauma!
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: skyler on May 05, 2011, 07:08:38 PM
Having just cracked open my 2009 bottle of Westvleteren 12 to celebrate passing the bar, the flavor of that beer is fairly fresh in my mind. I have to say... not any better than Rochefort 10 or St. Bernardus 12. In fact, I had a St. Bernardus 12 right after my Westy, and found it slightly larger in body (which I liked). If it were my tastebuds, I would go with pils, some munich, a little caravienne, some special B, and then D2 - like a bigger dubbel. I guess it would be something in between Rochefort 10 and Westmalle Dubbel, but that doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 05, 2011, 07:13:25 PM
That's the direction I'm heading at this point.  I just found some coriander seed and GOP laying around and I'm trying to decide if a bit will go in.  Still got a couple weeks til I have to finalize the recipe.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: majorvices on May 08, 2011, 03:01:29 PM
Maybe try making your own candi sugar? I did that once for a christmas beer (following Mosher's directions in RB) and was very happy with the way it turned out.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on May 10, 2011, 05:55:23 PM
What a coincidence, I have a pack of 3787 that's getting old and planned on making a Patersbier and then using the cake for a St Bernardus 12-ish beer (it won't be my 400th batch though...more like 140-something :-[).  That's the only quad I've ever tasted though.

I don't have any D2 but do have some caramelized syrup I made ~2 years ago.  I had planned on keeping it real simple; just Pils, a little wheat, decent amount of Special B, and sugar/syrup.  I'm sure it's because I'm not that experienced but when I've made big, dark Belgians in the past using a mix of caramel malts, by the time I've hit my color it just doesn't have those deep dark flavors I'm after (and had too much stone fruit/berry flavors).  So I was just going to use only Special B.  I might add some Aromatic (and there I go, already adding stuff!).

Nothing to add really Denny...but I'll be watching to get some ideas myself.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 10, 2011, 05:59:33 PM
I just ordered some dark syrup samples so I'm gonna see what they look like when they arrive and decide which and how much to use.  Maybe supplement with some demarara sugar.  Mainly pils malt, maybe a touch of Munich, maybe some coriander or GOP.  Maybe Hallertauer for bitteriong and and a bit of Strisselspalt for finishing.  I've got a couple weeks or so til I brew it so I'm still cogitating.  When I get close to a final recipe, I'll post it here for comments.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 23, 2011, 10:29:33 PM
OK, here's the first go...no Munich in here, but I may change that.  Any comments?

#400 Batch 400

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       20.50
Anticipated OG:          1.102    Plato:             24.13
Anticipated SRM:          29.6
Anticipated IBU:          26.1
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             70    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:       1.50    Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:    7.25    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.077    SG          18.69  Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 87.8    18.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Germany        1.038      2
  9.8     2.00 lbs. D-180                                        1.032    180
  2.4     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 80                 France         1.034     80

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2.50 oz.    Hallertauer                       Pellet   3.90  26.1  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Strisselspalt 2007                Pellet   2.50   0.0  0 min.


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.20 Oz     Corriander Seed                Spice      5 Min.(boil)
  0.03 Oz     Grains of Paradise             Spice      5 Days(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs:   18.50
Total Water Qts:   27.75 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    6.94 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.13
Grain Temp:        65.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacc                   0     90    147     147   Infuse   161       27.75   1.50


Total Water Qts:           27.75 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            6.94 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:      8.42 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.



Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: ryang on May 23, 2011, 10:49:32 PM
gotta have some munich in there to really throw some deeper malt tones on top of the pilsner.  about 10% I'd say, but what do I know?

just my lowly opinion.

I'd nix the spices too, but again, that's just me.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: andyi on May 23, 2011, 11:06:12 PM
Nice.  Should be very drinkable ( i volunteer  ;))

I have not used 3787 before but have used WLP530 in tripels pitching low and letting free rise to whatever. WY3711 will dry it out with a spice character, may or may not be the profile you want.
I know  WY3522 will should attenuate well with light fruit and tart from the yeast.  I don.'t know if you have used D-180 before.  I have used D-160 a while ago and remember it to be dark fruit an chocolate with almost a "metallic" profile, hard to describe.  

Never quite sure if a quad is "just" a barleywine with a belgian yeast but I do know that the hgh alcohol will generate its own flavors.

-Cheers and let us know how it works
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: majorvices on May 24, 2011, 02:19:38 AM
recipe looks good to me. I like that you aren't throwing in the "obligatory" Special B.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: tschmidlin on May 24, 2011, 05:32:38 AM
Looks good to me Denny, although I don't think I would boil the grains of paradise for 5 days. ;)

Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: thomasbarnes on May 24, 2011, 07:17:52 AM
I'd use the old coriander and grains of paradise for cooking and get yourself some nice fresh spices, why ruin a special brew by skimping on ingredients?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 24, 2011, 03:01:28 PM
gotta have some munich in there to really throw some deeper malt tones on top of the pilsner.  about 10% I'd say, but what do I know?

just my lowly opinion.

I'd nix the spices too, but again, that's just me.

I think both of those are good ideas.  I'm gonna take another run at the recipe.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 24, 2011, 03:02:20 PM
Looks good to me Denny, although I don't think I would boil the grains of paradise for 5 days. ;)



You have no sense of adventure!   ;D

That's what I get for posting sober....
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 24, 2011, 03:03:30 PM
I'd use the old coriander and grains of paradise for cooking and get yourself some nice fresh spices, why ruin a special brew by skimping on ingredients?


Actually, they're both fresh.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 24, 2011, 04:58:52 PM
Looks like a good one Denny. Don't forget the yeast nutrient.  :)
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 25, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
OK, here's the latest revision.  Replaced some of the pils with Munich and lost the grains of paradise.  The coriander stays.  As I look at this, it's amazingly similar to Herman Holtrop's Rochefort recipe, which is one of my favorites to brew.  I can't decide if I should leave the caramunich in there or not.  It's in the Rochefort recipe, though.  Any opinions?

#400 Batch 400

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       20.50
Anticipated OG:          1.101    Plato:             24.08
Anticipated SRM:          30.3
Anticipated IBU:          26.2
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             70    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:       1.50    Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:    7.25    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.077    SG          18.65  Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 78.0    16.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Germany        1.038      2
  9.8     2.00 lbs. D-180                                        1.032    180
  9.8     2.00 lbs. Munich Malt                   Germany        1.037      9
  2.4     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 80                 France         1.034     80

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2.50 oz.    Hallertauer                       Pellet   3.90  26.2  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Strisselspalt 2007                Pellet   2.50   0.0  0 min.


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.20 Oz     Corriander Seed                Spice      5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs:   18.50
Total Water Qts:   30.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    7.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.13
Grain Temp:        65.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacc                   0     90    147     147   Infuse   161       30.00   1.62


Total Water Qts:           30.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            7.50 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:      8.98 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 25, 2011, 08:45:39 PM
OK, I think this is the final.  I dropped a lb. of D-180n and subbed a lb. of turbinado sugar for it.  At this point I'm gonna leave the caramunich.  When I actually crush my grains I'll make a last second decision about it.

#400 Batch 400

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       20.50
Anticipated OG:          1.104    Plato:             24.64
Anticipated SRM:          21.2
Anticipated IBU:          25.7
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             70    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:       1.50    Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:    7.25    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.079    SG          19.09  Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 78.0    16.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Germany        1.038      2
  4.9     1.00 lbs. Turbinado Sugar                              1.047      0
  4.9     1.00 lbs. D-180                                        1.032    180
  9.8     2.00 lbs. Munich Malt                   Germany        1.037      9
  2.4     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 80                 France         1.034     80

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2.50 oz.    Hallertauer                       Pellet   3.90  25.7  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Strisselspalt 2007                Pellet   2.50   0.0  0 min.


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.20 Oz     Corriander Seed                Spice      5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs:   18.50
Total Water Qts:   30.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    7.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.13
Grain Temp:        65.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacc                   0     90    147     147   Infuse   161       30.00   1.62


Total Water Qts:           30.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            7.50 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:      8.98 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: tschmidlin on May 25, 2011, 08:52:21 PM
If I were you I would collect more and boil longer.  It will bump up your gravity, but I like a 90 minute boil with pilsner malt.  Then again I assume you have enough experience with it to know what you like.  This is why it's hard to give you advice on a recipe, Denny. :)
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 25, 2011, 08:56:49 PM
If I were you I would collect more and boil longer.  It will bump up your gravity, but I like a 90 minute boil with pilsner malt.  Then again I assume you have enough experience with it to know what you like.  This is why it's hard to give you advice on a recipe, Denny. :)

Dude, if I felt like I knew what I was doing I wouldn't ask for advice and opinions!  I don't usually do a 90 min. boil with pils malt because I haven't experienced problems, but I think I'll take your advice and go for it this time.  What's your opinion on the caramunich?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 25, 2011, 08:57:51 PM
If I were you I would collect more and boil longer.  It will bump up your gravity, but I like a 90 minute boil with pilsner malt.  Then again I assume you have enough experience with it to know what you like.  This is why it's hard to give you advice on a recipe, Denny. :)

It would be similiar to giving Gordon advice.  ;)

I'll give it shot though. I agree with Tom on the longer boil in an effort to develop more melanoidins and maillard reactions for more complex flavor. Try 120 min. I would also bump up the mash temp to 149 to get a faster beta conversion. If you think that will decrease your fermentability too much then add a bit more sugar to compensate.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 25, 2011, 09:01:51 PM
Thanks, Ron.  I'll think about those ideas.  I'm leaning toward the 120 min. boil.  Based on other beers I've made, I don't think the 147 mash temp will be an issue since I'm mashing for 90 min., but I may modify that also.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: tschmidlin on May 25, 2011, 10:19:26 PM
What's your opinion on the caramunich?

If you're going to go to 10 minutes you might want to leave the caramunich out, but I say leave it in anyway.  It's only a half a pound, and I like it. :)
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: gordonstrong on May 26, 2011, 12:39:20 AM
I like caramunich. Use it.

The real question is whether you're using light Munich or dark Munich...  Heh heh heh.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 26, 2011, 12:57:52 AM
I like caramunich. Use it.

Yes!

Some caramunich will help develop those dark fruit flavors over time.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: narvin on May 26, 2011, 01:03:13 AM
I like CaraMunich in a quad too...  I often use more, although it's usually 60L.  Never had a problem getting great attenuation with it.  It seems to be a pretty standard ingredient in most of the Trappist beers according to BLAM, even more so than Special B.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 28, 2011, 03:29:38 PM
OK, here's what I'm gonna start brewing in a few minutes.  I kept the caramunich and upped the D-180 to 2 jars (2 lb.) as well as keeping the turbinado in there.  Ron, I considered a longer boil than 90 min., but with all the flavor contributed by that much D-180 I just don't think it's necessary.  I'm cutting my water 40% with distilled and adding a bit of CaCl2, which according to Martin's spreadsheet puts me perfectly into the light malty range (remember, even though it will be a dark beer, none of the color is coming from grain so I don't need to adjust the mash for it).  Gordon, I'm using Best Munich II which is roughly 9L.

#400 Batch 400

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       20.50
Anticipated OG:          1.103    Plato:             24.35
Anticipated SRM:          30.2
Anticipated IBU:          26.0
Brewhouse Efficiency:       73 %
Wort Boil Time:             90    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:       1.50    Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:    7.75    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.073    SG          17.72  Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 73.2    15.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Germany        1.038      2
  9.8     2.00 lbs. D-180                                        1.032    180
  9.8     2.00 lbs. Munich Malt                   Germany        1.037      9
  4.9     1.00 lbs. Turbinado Sugar                              1.047      0
  2.4     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 80                 France         1.034     80

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2.50 oz.    Hallertauer                       Pellet   3.90  26.0  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Strisselspalt 2007                Pellet   2.50   0.0  0 min.


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.20 Oz     Corriander Seed                Spice      5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs:   17.50
Total Water Qts:   26.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    6.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.13
Grain Temp:        65.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacc                   0     90    147     147   Infuse   162       26.00   1.49


Total Water Qts:           26.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            6.50 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:      7.90 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.


Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 28, 2011, 05:57:31 PM
I agree Denny. Two jars of syrup will definitely add alot of flavor in a tradeoff for the extra 30 min of boiling. Recipe looks good. My next batch of beer will be a BPA then I'll make a quad. My plan is to use the yeast cake from the BPA for the quad. I'll post a recipe when I get to it.

How long are going to age this one?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 28, 2011, 06:02:03 PM
How long are going to age this one?

Until it's done!   ;D

BTW, I tasted the D-180 before deciding how much to use and it's definitely a different flavor than D-2.  Maybe a bit more coffee like.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 28, 2011, 06:06:23 PM
How long are going to age this one?

Until it's done!   ;D

BTW, I tasted the D-180 before deciding how much to use and it's definitely a different flavor than D-2.  Maybe a bit more coffee like.

Quads develop alot of different flavors as they age kind of like Barleywines. Depends on your preferences I suppose.

I'll probably use D-180 in mine as well. The coffee like flavor should ferment out into a really nice flavor.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: Hokerer on May 28, 2011, 06:58:36 PM
Ron, I considered a longer boil than 90 min., but with all the flavor contributed by that much D-180 I just don't think it's necessary.

But wait, according to this guy this morning... http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=7707.msg95373#msg95373 (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=7707.msg95373#msg95373), if you boil longer, you'll get higher efficiency.   ;D
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 28, 2011, 07:50:36 PM
Quads develop alot of different flavors as they age kind of like Barleywines. Depends on your preferences I suppose.

I'll probably use D-180 in mine as well. The coffee like flavor should ferment out into a really nice flavor.

When I added it to the kettle the entire garage/brewery was filled with the aroma of dates!
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 28, 2011, 11:49:27 PM
Quads develop alot of different flavors as they age kind of like Barleywines. Depends on your preferences I suppose.

I'll probably use D-180 in mine as well. The coffee like flavor should ferment out into a really nice flavor.

When I added it to the kettle the entire garage/brewery was filled with the aroma of dates!

Sweeetttt! (no pun intended)  8)

What was your OG?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: EHall on May 29, 2011, 12:56:10 AM
I brewed this last Nov, won't get touched until about Aug/Sept this year. The IBUs are higher than style but I wanted to try something different... tasted very good going into the bottle.

A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal):         3.00    Wort Size (Gal):    3.00
Total Grain (Lbs):        9.31
Anticipated OG:          1.091    Plato:             21.76
Anticipated SRM:          16.8
Anticipated IBU:          74.2
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             60    Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 53.7     5.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Belgium        1.037      2
 21.5     2.00 lbs. Vienna Malt                   Germany        1.037      3
  5.4     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich Malt               Belgium        1.033     75
 10.7     1.00 lbs. Turbinado Sugar               Generic        1.046      0
  3.4     0.31 lbs. Biscuit Malt                  Belgium        1.035     24
  3.4     0.31 lbs. Special B Malt                Belgian        1.030    120
  2.0     0.19 lbs. Victory Malt                  America        1.034     25

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2.00 oz.    Hallertauer Mittelfruh            Pellet   3.90  53.2  60 min.
  0.25 oz.    Sterling                          Whole    7.00  10.8  60 min.
  2.00 oz.    Saazer                            Pellet   2.80  10.2  15 min.

Yeast
----
White Labs WLP530 Abbey Ale

Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs:    8.31
Water Qts:   10.52 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal:    2.63 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.27 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 148  Time:  60
Mash-out Rest Temp :           0  Time:   0
Sparge Temp :                170  Time:  10
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on May 29, 2011, 02:04:42 PM
Quads develop alot of different flavors as they age kind of like Barleywines. Depends on your preferences I suppose.

I'll probably use D-180 in mine as well. The coffee like flavor should ferment out into a really nice flavor.

When I added it to the kettle the entire garage/brewery was filled with the aroma of dates!

Sweeetttt! (no pun intended)  8)

What was your OG?

1.104
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on May 29, 2011, 07:40:41 PM
Quads develop alot of different flavors as they age kind of like Barleywines. Depends on your preferences I suppose.

I'll probably use D-180 in mine as well. The coffee like flavor should ferment out into a really nice flavor.

When I added it to the kettle the entire garage/brewery was filled with the aroma of dates!

Sweeetttt! (no pun intended)  8)

What was your OG?

1.104

Ahhh yes...triple digits.  :)

That should be a real fine beer Denny.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 07, 2011, 12:55:28 PM
My Patersbeir 'yeast starter batch' is bubbling away right now so my Quad is <2 weeks away.  Couple of questions if you don't mind Denny:

What's your target FG (or ABV)?

Have you compared the Dark Candi Inc. (http://www.darkcandi.com/d2.html) Belgian candi syrups with the equivalent Candi Syrup Inc. (http://www.candisyrup.com/) products?  Are they pretty much interchangeable or is there a noticable difference?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 07, 2011, 03:32:11 PM
My Patersbeir 'yeast starter batch' is bubbling away right now so my Quad is <2 weeks away.  Couple of questions if you don't mind Denny:

What's your target FG (or ABV)?

Have you compared the Dark Candi Inc. (http://www.darkcandi.com/d2.html) Belgian candi syrups with the equivalent Candi Syrup Inc. (http://www.candisyrup.com/) products?  Are they pretty much interchangeable or is there a noticable difference?

For the Patersbier, about 1.055.  For the quad, it was 1.104, right where I landed.    I've always used the D2 in the past.  This was my first experience with the D-180.  They're similar, but I did find some flavor differences.  The D2 has a kind of rummy, figgy flavor to it, while the D-180 reminded me  a bit more of coffee and dates.  Since this is the first time with D-180, I don't know how much of that will come through when it ferments.  I'd say they're close enough to be interchangeable in a broad sense, but in certain cases you may be looking for the characteristics of one or the other.  Based on the description on the Candi Syrup website, the D-90 might be more like the D2, but I haven't tried that one yet.  I hope to get my hands on some of the Simplicity soon and try that in a tripel.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: dbeechum on June 07, 2011, 04:06:52 PM
Damn you people making me go out and buy new ingredients. :)
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 07, 2011, 04:15:43 PM
Thanks Denny.  But I was asking about the FG, final gravity of the quad.

I just ordered 2# D-190, 1# of D-90, and 1# of D-45.

I'm thinking of trying a Westy-inspired brew; just a blend of Pils/Pale malt and dark syrup.  Per BLAM, the OG/FG are 1.090/1.013 (which I think equates to 10.2% ABV and 86% apparent attenuation) or very close to that.  Sugar to be just under 20% of fermentables.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 07, 2011, 04:46:31 PM
Thanks Denny.  But I was asking about the FG, final gravity of the quad.

Ah, sorry.  I don't know...it's gonna be what it's gonna be!  But with 3 lb. of sugar in there, I'm guessing it will be sub 20.

I just ordered 2# D-190, 1# of D-90, and 1# of D-45.

I'm thinking of trying a Westy-inspired brew; just a blend of Pils/Pale malt and dark syrup.  Per BLAM, the OG/FG are 1.090/1.013 (which I think equates to 10.2% ABV and 86% apparent attenuation) or very close to that.  Sugar to be just under 20% of fermentables.

Sounds good.  Keep us informed!
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 07, 2011, 04:46:59 PM
Damn you people making me go out and buy new ingredients. :)

Oh, quit whining and just get out your credit card!
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 21, 2011, 12:12:01 PM
What temp are you fermenting at Denny?

I brewed mine Sunday, 10# Pils, 3.5# Pale 2-row, .25# Special B, 1 oz Carafa Special II, 2 # D-180 and 1# D-90.  Hit 1.090 on the nose.  The FFT isn't quite done yet (this 3787 sure slows to a crawl towards the end) but was ~1.014 this morning, shooting for 1.012.  Some others have suggested starting it in the mid 60's and just letting it free-rise into the low 80s so I was going to try that.  I sure hope I don't get a ton of fusels.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 21, 2011, 03:21:53 PM
What temp are you fermenting at Denny?

I brewed mine Sunday, 10# Pils, 3.5# Pale 2-row, .25# Special B, 1 oz Carafa Special II, 2 # D-180 and 1# D-90.  Hit 1.090 on the nose.  The FFT isn't quite done yet (this 3787 sure slows to a crawl towards the end) but was ~1.014 this morning, shooting for 1.012.  Some others have suggested starting it in the mid 60's and just letting it free-rise into the low 80s so I was going to try that.  I sure hope I don't get a ton of fusels.

Started at 62, it's running about 65 now.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: hoser on June 21, 2011, 03:54:42 PM
 Some others have suggested starting it in the mid 60's and just letting it free-rise into the low 80s so I was going to try that.  I sure hope I don't get a ton of fusels.

You could always start in the 60's and control the free rise by gradually allowing it to ramp up if you have the ability to temp control.  The other option is to hold it steady in the 60's for the first 48-72hrs where most of the growth and esters occur and then ramping it up.  Both methods should control fusel alcohol formation if you are truly concerned about it.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 22, 2011, 11:49:27 AM
Thanks hoser, that's pretty much what I'm doing.  I have ghetto temp control.  I pitched Sunday afternoon at about 63* F and held it there until it started (Monday morning), then only added frozen ice packs to the water bath just enough to let it slowly rise.  Tuesday morning I added the last ice pack when it was at 67* F.  I'm at about 76* F now.  It has stayed at a fairly steady pace and isn't going gangbusters (but I'm glad I used a 6 gal carboy!).

FFT finished almost exactly where I wanted @ ~1.0125.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 29, 2011, 03:56:43 PM
Update for those who care....

Yesterday was exactly 30 days since brewing.  I overcame my fear of carboys, got one out of storage and sanitized it and xferred the beer from the bucket primary.  Of course, I had to take a gravity reading and have a taste.  I took a 16 0x. hydrometer sample and after getting a reading (1.016, from an OG of 1.104) I put the sample in a PET bottle with a carbonator cap, hit it with 30 psi and out it in the freezer for 45 min. for a taste.

OH
MY
GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is shaping up to be one of the best beers I've ever made.  Rich, complex dark fruit flavors.  Virtually no hint of alcohol heat, even at only 30 days old and 11.6% ABV.  I kept sipping it slowly trying to find problems....I couldn't.  I just wanted to drink more of it!  I'm thinking that some caramelized raisins or figs would work great in it, but I don't think I want to cover up or overwhelm the flavors that are in there already.  I'm certain that a large part of the flavor is due to the D-180 syrup.  It definitely has similarities to the D2, but I think it has more fruitiness and complexity to it.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: bluesman on June 29, 2011, 04:27:36 PM
Glad to hear it turned out so well.

What's the main difference between D2 and D-180...color?

I have a BPA in the primary right now that I'm planning to use the yeast cake for a quad. I have D2 but don't have D-180, although you now have me considering adding D-180 and D2 together. I would need to find some D-180.

Decisions...decisions... :-\
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 29, 2011, 04:44:32 PM
To me, the D-180 has more coffee and dark fruit flavors than the D2.  The D2 is more "rummy".  I think they're close and they're both great ingredients.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: tschmidlin on June 29, 2011, 05:47:02 PM
That's awesome Denny, can't wait to try it :)
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on June 29, 2011, 07:01:55 PM
That's awesome Denny, can't wait to try it :)

I'm supposed to share??   :o

 ;D
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: narcout on July 01, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
Cool, I'm really looking forward to trying out all of their syrups.

I've been promising my boss a Belgian Strong Dark for months...
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: msjulian on November 25, 2012, 07:27:34 PM
Hey Denny... I am looking to brew a La Trappe Quad and have read every post in this thread. I was wondering how everything came out?

The La Trappe is a bit lighter in color so I was going to use the D-90 to get down to the 19-22 SRM range. Does this sound like the right direction?

Did you keg or bottle? The La Trappe I have been exposed to at my local watering hole is on tap and is very good so I was going to age half in a keg and half in the bottle.

Any pointers would be much appreciated..
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on November 25, 2012, 07:39:35 PM
Hey Denny... I am looking to brew a La Trappe Quad and have read every post in this thread. I was wondering how everything came out?

The La Trappe is a bit lighter in color so I was going to use the D-90 to get down to the 19-22 SRM range. Does this sound like the right direction?

Did you keg or bottle? The La Trappe I have been exposed to at my local watering hole is on tap and is very good so I was going to age half in a keg and half in the bottle.

Any pointers would be much appreciated..

With just over a year of age on it, the beer is great!  It was good younger, but it just keeps getting better.  For your beer, I'd worry more about the flavor than the color.  The D90 doesn't have as much flavor, but for all I know it might work great for what you have in mind.  I almost never bottle, but I bottled this batch in order to be sure I could age some.  It was worth the effort.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: msjulian on November 25, 2012, 10:35:21 PM
Very good point... I was thinking along the lines that the color can drive the flavor to some extent. The La Trappe Quad I have tasted has some what of a dark fruit flavor but also a decent caramel flavor. Overall fairly malty smooth. I was thinking the 180 might make it a little more on the roasty side. I have not used either as I tend to brew more on the German side...
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: msjulian on November 26, 2012, 03:04:09 AM
I am pitching the Wyeast 3787 to ferment. I plan to use the same to bottle ferment. Any advice on how much yeast to re-pitch to get the bottles carbed?
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: denny on November 26, 2012, 04:43:34 PM
Very good point... I was thinking along the lines that the color can drive the flavor to some extent. The La Trappe Quad I have tasted has some what of a dark fruit flavor but also a decent caramel flavor. Overall fairly malty smooth. I was thinking the 180 might make it a little more on the roasty side. I have not used either as I tend to brew more on the German side...

Nope, I don't get any "roasty" out of the D180.  Figs, rum, caramel.....but not roasty.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: meegs on November 02, 2013, 12:38:03 AM
I'm working on a Quad recipe with Boulevard's Sixth Glass in mind as kind of a target.  This thread was very useful to me.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 02, 2013, 01:00:43 AM
Sixth Glass is a very nice beer.  I've brewed a lot of Quads (my favorite high OG style) but the Herman Holtrop Rochefort 8 clone (which I use to bump up to get in the neighborhood of 10) posted by Denny on NB is pretty much my favorite. I have other recipes , but I keep coming back, if nothing else as a base to build on.
Title: Re: Belgian Quadrupel ideas
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 02, 2013, 01:12:08 AM
Sixth Glass is a very nice beer.  I've brewed a lot of Quads (my favorite high OG style) but the Herman Holtrop Rochefort 8 clone (which I use to bump up to get in the neighborhood of 10) posted by Denny on NB is pretty much my favorite. I have other recipes , but I keep coming back, if nothing else as a base to build on.
My bad , here it is...


#304 Rochefort 8

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 16.58
Anticipated OG: 1.079 Plato: 19.08
Anticipated SRM: 28.4
Anticipated IBU: 28.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73 %
Wort Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 1.50 Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.25 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.060 SG 14.71 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.9 12.25 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
9.0 1.50 lbs. CaraMunich 80 France 1.034 80
6.0 1.00 lbs. Dark Candi Syrup 1.031 80
4.2 0.70 lbs. Cane Sugar 1.047 0
3.0 0.50 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize) America 1.040 1
3.0 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 114
0.8 0.13 lbs. Sinamar (BYO) Carafa extract 1.000 1000

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.70 oz. Fuggle Pellet 4.00 21.3 60 min.
0.60 oz. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 4.00 5.8 30 min.
0.40 oz. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 4.00 1.0 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.36 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)
1.00 Tsp CaCO3 Other 0 Min.(mash)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Rochefort mash

Total Grain Lbs: 14.88
Total Water Qts: 16.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 4.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.13
Grain Temp: 63.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
beta 0 30 140 137 Infuse 158 16.00 1.08
alpha 0 60 154 154 Infuse 212 5.56 1.45


Total Water Qts: 21.56 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 5.39 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 6.58 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.