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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: uthristy on April 24, 2011, 01:09:10 AM

Title: No Politics, just the news
Post by: uthristy on April 24, 2011, 01:09:10 AM
As the tittle says its just the news so keep it that way :)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TSA Airport passenger screener charged in distributing child pornography

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20110423_Airport_passenger_screener_charged_in_distributing_child_pornography.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20110423_Airport_passenger_screener_charged_in_distributing_child_pornography.html)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A nice thread about the story here >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1208521-tsa-screener-charged-kid-porn-case.html (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1208521-tsa-screener-charged-kid-porn-case.html)

Enjoy the TSA posters ( Bart , gsoltso ) trying to say its nothing....

~~~~~~~~
 I really like this post:


Check out these two lines from the article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly.com Article
Homeland Security agents arrested the TSA officer March 24, and he is being held without bail.
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly.com Article
The charges detail 104 illicit photographs allegedly uploaded over four weeks in February.
I find it very interesting that:

   1. He is accused of uploading images.
   2. Homeland Security - not the FBI - arrested him.


I find those sentences interesting because my impression is that most "child porn" arrests are done by the FBI and involve people accused of downloading.

Consider what would happen if a TSO were caught uploading nude-o-scope images to the internet:

   1. The charging documents would say uploading. [check!]
   2. To keep the dirty laundry hidden, the arrest be done by DHS LEOs, not LEOs from the FBI or another agency. [check!]
   3. So that the evidence would not need to be shown in open court, where the media and activists could see it, the accused would be charged with child porn. [check!]


Consequently, I conclude that he is the first TSO to be charged with a crime as a result of uploading nude-o-scope images to the internet.


_____________________________

Don't forget this pic was taken at a TSA checkpoint

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3584/3304306634_0a9e51503c_b.jpg)

Close up
(http://www.boingboing.net/201011111141.jpg)

< edit to add >
(http://media.philly.com/images/300*363/20110423_inq_tsa23z-a.JPG)
The federal agent alleged that Gordon's Photobucket account also included a picture of him wearing his blue TSA uniform.

The indictment alleges that Gordon used at least six Facebook accounts and employed multiple names "to upload and store images of sexual exploitation of minor children."

The charges detail 104 illicit photographs allegedly uploaded over four weeks in February.

Authorities also seized from Gordon an HP laptop and a four-gigabyte flash drive that they say contained more than 600 images or movies containing child pornography, according to court filings.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: 1vertical on April 24, 2011, 02:53:34 AM
H E Double hockey sticks
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narvin on April 24, 2011, 06:18:14 AM
Uploaded "nude-o-scope" images?   This seems like nothing but speculation on the part of some armchair internet sleuths.  As goes all conspiracy theories, if he had truly uploaded images from the scanners, wouldn't someone have leaked them by now? No evidence is usually indicative of nothing happening, not a cover up.  Yes, he's a pedophile, and it's a horrifying thing, but that doesn't mean it's systemic in the TSA.  The man in the bathroom, the school nurse, or even your kid's doctor could be a pedophile, too, you know... at some point, the rampant paranoia has to be tempered with some reality.  I don't like the scanners either, but that doesn't mean that everyone is out to peek at your genitals.

As for the image of the fake book... not created by the TSA, but at least the guy working there has a sense of humor.  My biggest problem with the TSA is that they usually don't.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: nicneufeld on April 24, 2011, 11:55:38 AM
I don't like the scanners either, but that doesn't mean that everyone is out to peek at your genitals.

But...but...what if they are particularly magnificent?!   ;D

Quote
As for the image of the fake book... not created by the TSA, but at least the guy working there has a sense of humor.  My biggest problem with the TSA is that they usually don't.

+1.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: beersk on April 24, 2011, 06:15:29 PM
Atrocious...
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: denny on April 24, 2011, 06:39:18 PM
I guess I don't see the point of the OP.  How is this different from the priest, policeman, or teacher that were arrested for child porn here?  It's a travesty no matter who does it.  Profession doesn't seem to equal proclivity.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: ccarlson on April 24, 2011, 06:44:05 PM
I guess I don't see the point of the OP.  How is this different from the priest, policeman, or teacher that were arrested for child porn here?  It's a travesty no matter who does it.  Profession doesn't seem to equal proclivity.

Because  the cop, the priest or the teacher are not legally allowed to pat down your child, at will.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narcout on April 24, 2011, 08:09:02 PM
Consequently, I conclude that he is the first TSO to be charged with a crime as a result of uploading nude-o-scope images to the internet.

Whether or not that is, in fact, what has happened, you don't have the facts or the evidence to reach any conclusions as of yet.

Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narvin on April 24, 2011, 11:17:08 PM
I guess I don't see the point of the OP.  How is this different from the priest, policeman, or teacher that were arrested for child porn here?  It's a travesty no matter who does it.  Profession doesn't seem to equal proclivity.

Because  the cop, the priest or the teacher are not legally allowed to pat down your child, at will.

They aren't touching any children unless the parents opt them out of the scan.  And even then, they see less than a pediatrician, gym teacher, and even the kids own parents (those pervs!).

Bad people can be everywhere, but it seems like the American nudity taboo has kicked into hyperdrive these days.  Soon women will be banned from giving birth as the process will be considered some unnatural form of child molestation...
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: a10t2 on April 24, 2011, 11:40:52 PM
2. To keep the dirty laundry hidden, the arrest be done by DHS LEOs, not LEOs from the FBI or another agency.

Baseless speculation. It's at least as likely that they would do everything possible to make an example of him.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: ccarlson on April 25, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
Quote
Bad people can be everywhere, but it seems like the American nudity taboo has kicked into hyperdrive these days.  Soon women will be banned from giving birth as the process will be considered some unnatural form of child molestation... 

Seriously???? You let the TSA agents grope your kids. I think I'll say "no thanks" and find another way to get there.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: Slowbrew on April 25, 2011, 12:36:18 AM
I really think its worse that he was/is traffciing in child porn.  Who cares if some minimum wage flunky get to see a balck and white outline of me as I pass through a scanner?  I don't have ay extra parts and I chose to fly so I agreed to the rules.  Child porn is a deseise and it can't be "cured".  A sick bast@rd is just a sick bast@ard.

You started the with "just the news" and then broke your own rule with unfounded interpelation.  Please grind your ax else where.

Paul
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: phillamb168 on April 25, 2011, 08:29:16 AM
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

ATTRIBUTION:   BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).

My country ain't what it used to be.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narvin on April 25, 2011, 12:28:27 PM
Quote
Bad people can be everywhere, but it seems like the American nudity taboo has kicked into hyperdrive these days.  Soon women will be banned from giving birth as the process will be considered some unnatural form of child molestation... 

Seriously???? You let the TSA agents grope your kids. I think I'll say "no thanks" and find another way to get there.

Again, you don't have to be groped.  It's the people in opposition to the scan that CHOOSE to be groped.

Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: ccarlson on April 25, 2011, 01:15:38 PM
Quote
Bad people can be everywhere, but it seems like the American nudity taboo has kicked into hyperdrive these days.  Soon women will be banned from giving birth as the process will be considered some unnatural form of child molestation... 

Seriously???? You let the TSA agents grope your kids. I think I'll say "no thanks" and find another way to get there.

Again, you don't have to be groped.  It's the people in opposition to the scan that CHOOSE to be groped.



Not true. All airports don't have scanners and if you set off the metal detector, for any reason, you're going to get groped.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: punatic on April 25, 2011, 01:39:47 PM

Again, you don't have to be groped.  It's the people in opposition to the scan that CHOOSE to be groped.


That is absurd!  What we have is a government agency that is so concerned with being politically correct that it refuses even considering using effective means of insuring terrorists do not board airliners.

I find the TSA's methods highly offensive and see them for what they are; an egregious violation of my rights under the Fourth Ammendment to the US Constitution.

Living where I do, driving to other states is not an option.  So, I have a choice to make: get irradiated, get groped, or stay home.

It's not looking too good for NHC '11 in San Diego.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: maxieboy on April 25, 2011, 02:17:18 PM
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

ATTRIBUTION:   BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).

My country ain't what it used to be.

+ a million.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narvin on April 25, 2011, 02:23:54 PM

Again, you don't have to be groped.  It's the people in opposition to the scan that CHOOSE to be groped.


That is absurd!  What we have is a government agency that is so concerned with being politically correct that it refuses even considering using effective means of insuring terrorists do not board airliners.

I find the TSA's methods highly offensive and see them for what they are; an egregious violation of my rights under the Fourth Ammendment to the US Constitution.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  What are these effective means that they aren't using because of "political correctness"?  Only groping people wearing turbans?

Balancing individual rights with the safety of the public in public places has always been an issue.  There are laws and precautions taken on the roads, in schools, in courthouses, etc that can seem at odds with individual privacy.  

My biggest problem with the TSA is that I don't think they're doing a good job :)  But please, stop flattering yourself -- no one wants to look at your genitals, especially not the poor guy making a crap salary behind the scanner.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: ccarlson on April 25, 2011, 02:26:51 PM
I say profile all they want. That would be much more effective than groping little girls.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: thirsty on April 25, 2011, 03:07:58 PM
This is why I drive or just stay home.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: a10t2 on April 25, 2011, 04:18:15 PM
Not true. All airports don't have scanners and if you set off the metal detector, for any reason, you're going to get groped.

That hasn't been my experience. Generally you get a second (and sometimes a third, or fourth, or...) try through the metal detector, and if you still can't figure out what's setting it off they break out the little metal-detecting wand. If THAT is still picking up something, and they can't tell what it is, you get invited to the little room.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narcout on April 25, 2011, 04:23:51 PM
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

ATTRIBUTION:   BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).

My country ain't what it used to be.

No, it's getting better; civil liberties in this country have been steadily improving.  Look at where we were just 60 years ago (Brown v. The Board of Education was decided in 1954).

Also, wasn't Benjamin Franklin a slave owner?


Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: ccarlson on April 25, 2011, 04:35:33 PM
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

ATTRIBUTION:   BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).

My country ain't what it used to be.

No, it's getting better; civil liberties in this country have been steadily improving.  Look at where we were just 60 years ago (Brown v. The Board of Education was decided in 1954).

Also, wasn't Benjamin Franklin a slave owner?




Yes he was, but he also wasn't ever patted down at an airport.  ;D
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: phillamb168 on April 25, 2011, 04:52:39 PM
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

ATTRIBUTION:   BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).

My country ain't what it used to be.

No, it's getting better; civil liberties in this country have been steadily improving.  Look at where we were just 60 years ago (Brown v. The Board of Education was decided in 1954).

Also, wasn't Benjamin Franklin a slave owner?




Yes, I suppose you're right - everyone, regardless of race, sex, creed, sexual preference or religion is equally required to submit to an intrusive search in the name of "security." Also, Patriot Act. I think that's all that really needs to be said in terms of the current state of CivLib in the US.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: thirsty on April 25, 2011, 04:57:33 PM

If you can't afford a doctor, go to an airport - you'll get a free x-ray and a breast exam, and if you mention Al Qaeda, you'll get a free colonoscopy.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: uthristy on April 25, 2011, 05:02:55 PM


Yes, he's a pedophile, and it's a horrifying thing, but that doesn't mean it's systemic in the TSA.  The man in the bathroom, the school nurse, or even your kid's doctor could be a pedophile, too, .

I guess I don't see the point of the OP.  How is this different from the priest, policeman, or teacher that were arrested for child porn here?  It's a travesty no matter who does it.  Profession doesn't seem to equal proclivity.


Funny but doctors,police,ect are trained pro`s not some flunking recruited via pizza boxes.  or signs at  gas stations.

TSA treat ever flyer as as possible terrorist so its only fair to return the favor given tsa track record- drug smugglers,perverts,lairs, thieves..




It's at least as likely that they would do everything possible to make an example of him.

Really? ever read about TSA agents damaging planes and then threatening the airlines not to report it.
http://tinyurl.com/3s9gsrr

Even when caught on video (tsa agents) not following the law or rules they say its was a simple mistake and the worker(s) will get more training.

How many lies>
TSA testified that the scanners could not save,network,print any pictures (EPIC has the contract that proves they are a requirement)
TSA testified  the scanners would not be the primary screening technique in US airports
TSA stated the scanners tested safe, but won't allow a peer review testing...



Again, you don't have to be groped.  It's the people in opposition to the scan that CHOOSE to be groped.

Wrong! ever get a SSSS on your boarding pass? guess what your going to get groped.

TSA has a habit of groping people even after getting scanned, seems they like single female flyer. Odd huh ::)
Pistole has stated repeatedly that some frisks are done at random to verify that there are no threats that the scanner missed.
Oh lets not forget he stated that TSA now has up-to 100% failure rate even with the scanners & groping. So they went from a 70% rate to 100% and they claim to be the last line of defense ::)

As I have posted before my wife was getting the extra treatment everytime she flew for her job- USA.gov: Federal Employee and this was years before the new patdowns. When ever I flew with her I too got the extra treatment, this is a cleaner version of what  I would like to post but >

"the pat-down I am receiving at the airport. You should have no problem with it. I'm going to brush your testicles pushing them around with the backs of my hands, repeatedly. I'm going to open hand rub your butt. I'm going to slide the backs of my hands across your penis, and I'm going to stick my hand, to the web of the thumb in your pants. I'm going to describe all of this ahead of time, but I'm going to use euphemistic words like "resistance" .


That is my normal pat down on every trip, sounds like fun huh, oh lets not forget bags/hands/shoes/camera getting wiped for testing.

So I have a choice - get irradiated with ionizing radiation or have somebody groping my boys. As cancer runs in my mothers family I will not go thur the scanners, nope ain't going to happen.

Scientist are also in agreement that NO AMOUNT of ionizing radiation is safe. It is cumulative, some people are more damaged by it's effects, and irradiating millions of people will cause some cancers.


So even with all this going on just how many terrorist has the tsa stopped? zero and yet planes are not falling outta the sky.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: narcout on April 25, 2011, 05:45:50 PM
Yes, I suppose you're right - everyone, regardless of race, sex, creed, sexual preference or religion is equally required to submit to an intrusive search in the name of "security." Also, Patriot Act. I think that's all that really needs to be said in terms of the current state of CivLib in the US.

I see where you are coming from (and we are in agreement regarding the Patriot Act).  Balancing individual liberties against national security is, and will continue to be, a difficult undertaking.  I do, however, have confidence that we will get it right eventually.

Regarding airport security, how are things in France?  My recollection from various trips to Western Europe is that things are quite a bit more strict over there, and it is not uncommon to see security personnel armed with some pretty serious looking firearms.
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: nicneufeld on April 25, 2011, 05:59:32 PM
Balancing individual liberties against national security is, and will continue to be, a difficult undertaking. 

I agree and this is why the Franklin quote regarding essential liberty and temporal security is nothing more than a pithy quote...it isn't very meaningful because all governments trade some modicum of liberty for security, the only thing is the moveable definition of what liberties are "essential", and I think you'll find 100 people have 100 unique answers to that. 

To me, flying on an airline is no longer a purely individual right...by getting on the plane with a hundred or more other people, your rights become a little more collective than they otherwise would; there is an interdependency.  You can wax eloquent about your rights, but unless you're getting into your own private plane, other people's right to safety does impinge on your liberty to some extent.  Seriously though, what if the government granted an exemption to an "at your own risk!" airline, where you do away with all but the most basic security measures.  There's your free market solution!  :D  Just hope your plane doesn't taxi too close to em!  :D 

Burqa ban is in place in France.  Now there is an interesting question of freedom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering

PS travel by car and boat is more fun!  ;)
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: a10t2 on April 25, 2011, 06:35:22 PM
Scientist are also in agreement that NO AMOUNT of ionizing radiation is safe.

There's nowhere near universal consensus, actually. http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13517659

To say nothing of the fact that anyone concerned about that level of exposure should not be flying at all, ever. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21444831
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: punatic on April 25, 2011, 06:37:53 PM
Wow!  When did kool-aid become a homebrew beer style?
Title: Re: No Politics, just the news
Post by: phillamb168 on April 25, 2011, 07:21:29 PM
Yes, I suppose you're right - everyone, regardless of race, sex, creed, sexual preference or religion is equally required to submit to an intrusive search in the name of "security." Also, Patriot Act. I think that's all that really needs to be said in terms of the current state of CivLib in the US.

I see where you are coming from (and we are in agreement regarding the Patriot Act).  Balancing individual liberties against national security is, and will continue to be, a difficult undertaking.  I do, however, have confidence that we will get it right eventually.

Regarding airport security, how are things in France?  My recollection from various trips to Western Europe is that things are quite a bit more strict over there, and it is not uncommon to see security personnel armed with some pretty serious looking firearms.

Regarding Europe (France in particular) yup, we've got army guys here, but we have them in the train stations and everything else as well. But as far as taking the plane, let's just say when I was coming back from my first visit, my uncle-in-law had given me a beautiful cigarette lighter, made in the trenches during WWI by an American soldier out of an army-issue watch. I showed it to the security people, and they thought it was super interesting, and thanked me for sharing it with them. That was it. Imagine that happening in the US? I don't think so.

Burqa ban is within the norms of the French idea of laïety. You are not allowed to wear religious symbols in public. This includes crosses, so it's not just a muslim thing.

Back to the US, If you wanna have an agency in charge of doing security, then for CHRISSAKES don't hire people who are looking for a job with you as a last resort. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty of nice people in the blue uniform, but when you have a starting salary of something like $25k and a HS diploma requirement, well, it's pretty obvious to me that it's not about security as much as it is about 'visibility.' You want to get me to think you're being serious about security with those guys, then you give them a starting salary of 40k a year, make them go through a year of training and put a clear appeals system in place for people who feel their rights are being violated.

Also, when you fly first class, I'm pretty sure you don't have to ever go through advanced screening. Not 100% sure if that's for real or not, but if it is, wow.