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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: 1vertical on April 26, 2011, 05:10:48 AM

Title: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: 1vertical on April 26, 2011, 05:10:48 AM
Well I got this based upon your Logo...so how about
a little run down on this strain.

Planning a BVIP and thought this would be a shoe in for
a great yeast to utilize....

How did you come upon this yeast?
How come it is your favorite?
How did it manage to get to commercial status?

I hope you don't mind telling us the story...Please, Denny.... ::)
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite
Post by: denny on April 26, 2011, 03:34:09 PM
Well I got this based upon your Logo...so how about
a little run down on this strain.

Planning a BVIP and thought this would be a shoe in for
a great yeast to utilize....

How did you come upon this yeast?
How come it is your favorite?
How did it manage to get to commercial status?

I hope you don't mind telling us the story...Please, Denny.... ::)

OK, kids, here's yer bedtime story...

Many years ago I decided to try my hand at yeast ranching.  I bought a kit of supplies and some slants from a company by the name of Brewtek, which I later found was run by the inimitable Maribeth Raines.  I picked slants at random and one was called CL-50 Cal. brewpub yeast (or something like that).  I had just finished developing my Rye IPA recipe and had been using WY1272 for it.  I tried the CL-50 and found that it gave the beer a wonderful silky mouthfeel which really complemented the other aspects of the beer.  I started using it as my base AM. ale yeast in lieu of 1272 and 1056.  I also started talking the yeast up online in the few brewing discussions that were around back then (primarily rec.crafts.brewing for you old timers).  A few people started buying slants and many more wanted to see it come put in a larger, more common homebrew format.   Meanwhile, back at the ranch (who doesn't love saying that?), MB had shut down Brewtek and sold the stock to a company in CO.  Don't recall the name, but I ordered CL-50 from them a few times.  I saw it going downhill every time I got some, and IIRC that store eventually sold the library to someone else.  I had met and begun talking to Dave Logsdon, then owner of Wyeast, about them releasing it commercially so more people would have access to it, but Dave was reluctant as long as someone else had the strain.  Some kinda BS about ethics, ya know....;) .  I ordered a couple more slants from whoever had it back then just before they vanished.  When Dave found out it was no longer available, we arranged for Wyeast to get a sample from my yeast bank.  They went back and forth on what to call it (I suggested "Noti Ale yeast") and finally informed me it was going to be called "Denny's Favorite 50".  Since I make largely Am. style beers, it's still my go to yeast for almost all of them.  It makes a great BVIP and I really like it in my Noti Brown Ale recipe also (Am. brown ale).

So there you have it.  I feel like I'm a really lucky guy to have had such great honors as a homebrewer....the yeast, the GC, the great friends I've made.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite
Post by: 1vertical on April 26, 2011, 03:48:05 PM
Good Story Denny....Thank you for sharing that.  I have a Denny's Fav 50 smack pack in the fridge
and the ingredients enroute to my location to put together an attempt at BVIP...and
I thought I would make it authentic using your recipe AND your namesake Yeast.

Even got an Oak Spiral to infuse oak flavors....  I am thinking about the Bourbon aspect and my goto is
the Purple Sack Crown...because it is blended, well rounded, mellow and smooth....

Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: Hokerer on April 26, 2011, 03:55:19 PM
and there's the fun Wyeast had with the numbering.  Back when it was VSS or whatever, wasn't it called WY2450 and then they eventually changed it to WY1450 - muy confusing.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite
Post by: denny on April 26, 2011, 04:22:08 PM
Even got an Oak Spiral to infuse oak flavors....  I am thinking about the Bourbon aspect and my goto is
the Purple Sack Crown...because it is blended, well rounded, mellow and smooth....



I'm not a big fan of oaked beers, but I've tasted versions of the BVIP on oak that have been really good.  Don't worry too much about the bourbon...it's a subtle flavoring, not a major component, so as long as it's a good bourbon it doesn't have to be a great bourbon.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: denny on April 26, 2011, 04:22:54 PM
and there's the fun Wyeast had with the numbering.  Back when it was VSS or whatever, wasn't it called WY2450 and then they eventually changed it to WY1450 - muy confusing.

Yeah, they changed their whole numbering system to be more consistent.  It was a PITA at first, but it makes sense.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: bluesman on April 26, 2011, 04:30:39 PM
I have a jar of Denny's Fav 50 slurry from last October that I need to revive. I think it's a second gen slurry.

Any thoughts on what would be best to brew with it Denny?
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: denny on April 26, 2011, 04:32:18 PM
Any thoughts on what would be best to brew with it Denny?

My most common brews with it are Rye IPA (or about any AIPA or APA), Am. brown ale (Noti brown recipe), porter (Nick Danger porter recipe), or BVIP.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: ghumphrey on April 26, 2011, 05:53:15 PM
Sorry for the NOOB question - what does BVIP stand for? I've been trying to work it out for a few minutes now and my caffeine-starved brain isn't coming up with anything that I can say in mixed company...
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: tygo on April 26, 2011, 05:55:18 PM
Sorry for the NOOB question - what does BVIP stand for? I've been trying to work it out for a few minutes now and my caffeine-starved brain isn't coming up with anything that I can say in mixed company...

Bourbon Vanilla Imperial Porter

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BourbonVanillaImperialPorter
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: timberati on April 26, 2011, 06:43:22 PM
My most common brews with it are Rye IPA (or about any AIPA or APA), Am. brown ale (Noti brown recipe), porter (Nick Danger porter recipe), or BVIP.
Nick Danger, Third Eye has a beer named after him? Any other Firesign Theater themed brews? Lt Bradshaw Blonde Vice, perhaps? Rocky Rococo Red maybe?
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: denny on April 26, 2011, 06:45:24 PM
My most common brews with it are Rye IPA (or about any AIPA or APA), Am. brown ale (Noti brown recipe), porter (Nick Danger porter recipe), or BVIP.
Nick Danger, Third Eye has a beer named after him? Any other Firesign Theater themed brews? Lt Bradshaw Blonde Vice, perhaps? Rocky Rococo Red maybe?

Well, it's actually named after one of my cats, but _he's_ named after Firesign Theater's Nick Danger!  I like your suggestions!
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: timberati on April 26, 2011, 07:34:27 PM
Rocky Rococo Red pairs well with pickles. (those not familiar with why pickles pair well must find a copy of Nick Danger, Third Eye on the Firesign Theater's Shoes for Industry LP/CD)
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: jeffy on April 26, 2011, 07:50:04 PM

Don't Crush That Dwarf Hand Me The Pliers
May not be a good beer name, but it is a good album name.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: dannyjed on April 26, 2011, 08:14:38 PM
This yeast strain is great in a porter.  I haven't found any that I like as much as this in my porter and of course it's great in AIPA and APA.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: timberati on April 26, 2011, 08:27:56 PM

Don't Crush That Dwarf Hand Me The Pliers
May not be a good beer name, but it is a good album name.
:D

Temporarily Humboldt County, maybe
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: beersk on April 26, 2011, 08:34:12 PM
I used WY1450 in my last american black ale.  It's a regular beer I brew called "None More Black".  Denny, I'm sure you get that reference!  I really liked this yeast in that beer, nice and full bodied.  Previously, I used US-05 as my standard yeast, but this yeast makes a nice beer with good mouth feel.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: jlap on April 26, 2011, 09:30:47 PM
Since we've got you on the line here Denny, I'd be curious to know what levels of esters you typically get from the 1450.  I've done 3 or 4 side by side fermentations split between 1450 and 1056.  I'm always pleased with the mouthfeel but I've also found it it be a bit fruitier than 1056 and to slightly mask hop aromatics in comparison.  I'm pitching an appropriate "calculated" quanitity of yeast and usually ferment 1056 at 65 and 1450 at 62, though increasing both to 68 toward the end of fermentation.  

It's not even close to English fruity but I've had a few APA's/IPA's where I like the aroma from the 1056 a bit better.  In your experience, is 1450 cleaner than this?  What temperature do you typically ferment with 1450?

I should add that I'd be really interested to hear details about how this yeast worked for others as well!
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: denny on April 26, 2011, 09:45:52 PM
Since we've got you on the line here Denny, I'd be curious to know what levels of esters you typically get from the 1450.  I've done 3 or 4 side by side fermentations split between 1450 and 1056.  I'm always pleased with the mouthfeel but I've also found it it be a bit fruitier than 1056 and to slightly mask hop aromatics in comparison.  I'm pitching an appropriate "calculated" quanitity of yeast and usually ferment 1056 at 65 and 1450 at 62, though increasing both to 68 toward the end of fermentation.  

It's not even close to English fruity but I've had a few APA's/IPA's where I like the aroma from the 1056 a bit better.  In your experience, is 1450 cleaner than this?  What temperature do you typically ferment with 1450?

I should add that I'd be really interested to hear details about how this yeast worked for others as well!

I typically run it about 62 increasing to 68, as you do.  I do think it's become a bit fruitier through the years, but as you say it's still pretty subdued.  But I don't find it to mask the hop aromas.  I dunno, maybe I'm so used to it that I'm missing something.  I think maybe I'll do a split batch with 1450 and 1056 and compare.  It'll be a couple months before I have time to do that, though.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: blatz on April 26, 2011, 09:47:47 PM
jlap - my experience was very similar to yours.  I also had several batches where, at least in first generation, the fermentations were slow and drawn out (yes I made appropriate sized starters - this ain't my first rodeo  ;D) - but they eventually finished.  I did not like the aromas I was getting and agree it seemed to drown out or mute the hop aromas in the APA, Amber, IPA and RIPA I made with it.  Then again, I also pick up some mild fruitiness from WL051 that I don't like either.

However, I found that it is absolutely fantastic in porters and stouts (haven't tried brown ale with it) - perhaps because the low fruitiness is more welcome in these styles since they are less late hop driven than the latter mentioned styles and thus the slight reminiscence to British versions is welcome?

I dunno - I won't be using 1450 in Pales/IPAs anymore, but will continue in darker ales - yum!
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: jlap on April 26, 2011, 10:03:34 PM
Since we've got you on the line here Denny, I'd be curious to know what levels of esters you typically get from the 1450.  I've done 3 or 4 side by side fermentations split between 1450 and 1056.  I'm always pleased with the mouthfeel but I've also found it it be a bit fruitier than 1056 and to slightly mask hop aromatics in comparison.  I'm pitching an appropriate "calculated" quanitity of yeast and usually ferment 1056 at 65 and 1450 at 62, though increasing both to 68 toward the end of fermentation.  

It's not even close to English fruity but I've had a few APA's/IPA's where I like the aroma from the 1056 a bit better.  In your experience, is 1450 cleaner than this?  What temperature do you typically ferment with 1450?

I should add that I'd be really interested to hear details about how this yeast worked for others as well!

I typically run it about 62 increasing to 68, as you do.  I do think it's become a bit fruitier through the years, but as you say it's still pretty subdued.  But I don't find it to mask the hop aromas.  I dunno, maybe I'm so used to it that I'm missing something.  I think maybe I'll do a split batch with 1450 and 1056 and compare.  It'll be a couple months before I have time to do that, though.

It is an interesting comparison.  I haven't done it in a while but I have a batch of my pretty hoppy red ale fermenting right with that split right now so I'll post about it in a couple weeks.  Just chucked the dry hops in yesterday. 

For me, 1056 really produces that almost too crisp and bitter SN character which 1450 tones down nicely without a bunch of carapils or something similar.  On another level, I'm often using a recipe that is either designed for 1056 or meant to be an OK middle ground - neither IDEAL for 1450.  It's pretty easy to fix decreased hop aroma!
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: beveragebob on April 26, 2011, 10:04:32 PM
I'd add that Sierra Nevada is all about the hops and they use 1056/US-05 as their primary Ale strain and that it does in fact push the hop forward where other yeasts such as DF-50 is a good balance of malt and hops.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite
Post by: Pinski on April 28, 2011, 02:48:26 PM
Good Story Denny....Thank you for sharing that.  I have a Denny's Fav 50 smack pack in the fridge
and the ingredients enroute to my location to put together an attempt at BVIP...and
I thought I would make it authentic using your recipe AND your namesake Yeast.

Even got an Oak Spiral to infuse oak flavors....  I am thinking about the Bourbon aspect and my goto is
the Purple Sack Crown...because it is blended, well rounded, mellow and smooth....



...and Canadian.
Delicious I agree, had some last night. But Crown aint Bourbon.  May I suggest Four Roses single barrel or small batch.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: Pinski on April 28, 2011, 03:07:06 PM
Or, if you're a big Crown fan you might try the Black sack.  It closer to a Bourbon profile, yet still a blended Canadian eh.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: denny on April 28, 2011, 03:14:32 PM
Let me just repeat that the bourbon isn't a big deal as long as it's not rotgut.  IMO, if you can tell what bourbon is in it, you've used too much.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: 1vertical on April 28, 2011, 03:20:18 PM
Denny, I get you loud n clear...a cup or so in 5 gal.  I even considered
cognac that is even More mellow....but if I decide to use bourbon...the
over 50% corn likker, prolly look for 4roses.  I know crown is not
bourbon  and after reading up on that rye ain't bad either.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: Pinski on April 28, 2011, 03:30:42 PM
  IMO, if you can tell what bourbon is in it, you've used too much.

Indeed, I guess my point is that to me Canadians tend to taste carmely and sweet whereas bourbon tends to taste of oak, spice, wood, earth, leather and tobacco. I would think that the two varieties would impart different characteristics to your beer accordingly. As usual I suppose you should go with what you like.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: Rhoobarb on April 28, 2011, 04:16:38 PM
...  I think maybe I'll do a split batch with 1450 and 1056 and compare.  It'll be a couple months before I have time to do that, though.
I'm doing that right now with a Three Floyds Gumballhead type ale.  Actually, it is S-05, not 1056, but close enough in my book.  Both should be ready to keg early next week and I plan to have them ready to drink by May 14th.  I'll report my conclusions. ;)
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: roffenburger on April 29, 2011, 11:54:44 PM
I finally tried this out in Waldo Lake Amber (drinking first pints from the keg tonight), and RyeIPA. I'm getting a hint of dirty underwear. Anyone else geting the same taste/aroma? ;)
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: Hokerer on April 30, 2011, 01:30:52 AM
I finally tried this out in Waldo Lake Amber (drinking first pints from the keg tonight), and RyeIPA. I'm getting a hint of dirty underwear. Anyone else geting the same taste/aroma? ;)

LMAO

Denny's gonna get you for that one
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: skyler on April 30, 2011, 10:40:48 AM
I finally tried this out in Waldo Lake Amber (drinking first pints from the keg tonight), and RyeIPA. I'm getting a hint of dirty underwear. Anyone else geting the same taste/aroma? ;)

also tacos.  ;D
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: denny on April 30, 2011, 01:31:34 PM
Tuesday taco night....
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: tumarkin on April 30, 2011, 02:09:03 PM
Tuesday taco night....

Tuesday is fish taco night at The Top, here in Gainesville. And they've got a much expanded list of beer as well. Usually go for the Two Hearted if they've got it on tap. That's less often now, seems like Bell's isn't keeping up with demand very well. It's even gotten difficult to get the Two Hearted in bottles recently. Damn shame, it's a great beer and goes quite well with fish tacos.
Title: Re: Denny's Favorite 50
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 30, 2011, 02:40:14 PM
Tuesday taco night....

Tuesday is fish taco night at The Top, here in Gainesville. And they've got a much expanded list of beer as well. Usually go for the Two Hearted if they've got it on tap. That's less often now, seems like Bell's isn't keeping up with demand very well. It's even gotten difficult to get the Two Hearted in bottles recently. Damn shame, it's a great beer and goes quite well with fish tacos.

Mark, sometimes Two Hearted is a little hard to find in MI.  Hopslam tied up the tanks used for dry hopping, and some local places had trouble getting it.

Now Oberon is everywhere.