Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 05:10:21 AM

Title: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 05:10:21 AM
I know dbeechum has a thread going on fastest turn around but I don't want to hijack it so here goes.
My neighbour is having his birthday party 2 weeks Saturday.  He mentioned to my wife today that he should have put in his order for beer before and that now it's too late.  I'm wondering if it's not too late. 
What's the best suggestion for style and OG to get this done.  I'm thinking 11 days in primary and then right to the keg to force carb.  Want to make sure I clean up any diacetyl so I want to leave it on the yeast as long as I can.
Here's what I have to work with:

Pale and MO malts
Chocolate, carafa ll, roast barley, crystal 45, 1 lb flaked corn, malted rye ( 5 lbs), Vienna ( 5 lbs) - saving the Vienna for an O'fest.
Northern Brewer, East Kent Goldings, Amarillo leaf, Cascade leaf, Liberty leaf, Hallertau pellets, Tettnanger pellets ( was keeping the Hallertau and Tettnanger for an O'fest but if i have to...)
White labs California Ale X 2, harvested Wyeast London III, harvested Wyeast 2112 California lager.  Both the harvested yeast probably need a starter. (Also have WLP833 but not using that).

What about this for 10 gals? (2X5 gal glass carboys)
12 lbs of Pale
1 lb crystal 45
1 lb flaked corn
1 oz NB at 60
1/2 oz of EKG at 15
WLP001
Any reason to add rye malt to this?  Bought the rye for Cali Common clones which I keep hearing may have some rye in them.
I may consider adding a touch of carafa II because my friend really likes a cream ale we have here that is more amber than pale, I think that this will add some colour without adding a lot of flavour and impacting the mouthfeel I'm after with the corn.  Thoughts?

Beertools says that this would be close, but not exact for a cream ale, marginally too bitter and marginally too dark but pretty close.  I'm looking for something in the 4 - 4.5 % ABV range.  I'm using 83% for my efficiency calculation based on my last few batch sparges. If I closely manage the temps, can this be done and decent tasting in 2 weeks?

Please make suggestions but I'll probably give this a try tomorrow, Saturday at the latest.
Thanks.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: Hokerer on April 29, 2011, 01:32:49 PM
You could also go with an APA using just the pale and crystal.  Hop it with the amarillo and cascade and you should be good to go.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: bluesman on April 29, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
What are you looking for?

American Pale or more of an English profile?
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: ibru on April 29, 2011, 02:13:00 PM
I'm with Hokerer. Good beer that should be ready in 2 weeks. Make the starter now, brew tomorrow or Sunday.

 
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 02:32:58 PM
Still use the WLP001 for an APA?  I got the Amarillo and Cascade with the intent of doing an IPA down the road (only 2 onces of each, both whole leaf).

The yeast is pretty fresh so I was actually going to brew today and skip the starter this once because I wasn't looking for a huge OG beer.  Mistake?  Also, I only have one container to do starter in and I was going to start the WLP833 for a brew on Sunday or Monday.  Maybe trying to rush one like this is a mistake. 

My personal preference, and also the preference of my friend is more toward English styles than American.  He's from England and grew up living over a pub his family ran (which makes me feel good that he likes my beer).  Because of this, I may stick on the English side and save the hops above for that IPA I was thinking of but I really don't know.  This may be a real experiment that could go well or very badly.  If it goes badly, I'll drink it in private.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: denny on April 29, 2011, 02:33:56 PM
I'd say be prepared to tell him that the beer won't be ready in time.  You might make it, but if it's not ready do you really want to serve sub par beer?
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: Beer Monger on April 29, 2011, 02:41:18 PM
I guess you're gonna need one of these:   :P   lol

(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2011/04/Williams_Warn_white.jpg)
Williams Warn Personal Brewery - From wort to glass in 1 week
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 02:45:35 PM
I'd say be prepared to tell him that the beer won't be ready in time.  You might make it, but if it's not ready do you really want to serve sub par beer?
I think my beers still a bit sub par anyway but that's probably the best advice.  I'll get a starter going and brew another day.  Also haven't brewed in a while and I just picked up a whole bunch of supplies so I'm keen to do a batch too.
Thanks
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: corkybstewart on April 29, 2011, 03:04:28 PM
I think you have plenty of time.  That beer should be fermented in 3-5 days, then it will have time to settle out.  It may not be crystal clear  (you could use gelatin).  It can be force carbonated in minutes and ready to drink.  I've brewed milds in this time frame so I know you can do it.  YOU CAN DO IT, MAN.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 03:07:57 PM
So how imperative is a starter?  That's the only thing holding me back right now. 
BBF date is July 18.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: Beer Monger on April 29, 2011, 03:12:40 PM
So how imperative is a starter?  That's the only thing holding me back right now. 
BBF date is July 18.


10 gallons, right?  If you pitch 2 yeast packets (2 Wyeast pouches (Activator - NOT propagator) or White Labs vials) you should be OK. 
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: denny on April 29, 2011, 03:32:47 PM
So how imperative is a starter?  That's the only thing holding me back right now. 
BBF date is July 18.


10 gallons, right?  If you pitch 2 yeast packets (2 Wyeast pouches (Activator - NOT propagator) or White Labs vials) you should be OK. 

That doesn't seem like enough to me.  Graham, check mrmalty.com to be certain.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: pyrite on April 29, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
So how imperative is a starter?  That's the only thing holding me back right now.  
BBF date is July 18.

If the yeast is activated before being poured into the wort you'll see better results, so in my opinion it's pretty imperative.  However, even if the yeast is in the starter for a couple hours you'll be better off. .
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: Slowbrew on April 29, 2011, 03:54:28 PM
You could make the starter today.  Make the wort today also.  Pitch the yeast tomorrow after the yeast had had some time to get going.

Paul
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 04:03:55 PM
I checked Mr. Malty this morning.  I'd need a 3.2 L starter if I used one vial for 5 gals.  I'm going to make a starter right now and get the yeast going, probably pitch it just before bed tonight or tomorrow AM.  Hate the idea of leaving it unpitched. 
Also, I scaled back to just 5 in the interest of time today.

This is mashing right now.
8.5 lbs Pale
0.5 lbs C 45
1 lb Flaked corn
100 grams Chocolate Malt (like I said earlier, my favourite Cream Ale is  Muskoka Cream Ale which is more dark amber/copper than pale)

Not even sure of the hops yet, this one is really a work in progress (don't worry, I have much better plans for my O'fest etc)
I also discovered I have 2 more ounces of Cascade and 2 of Willamette. 
Keep the suggestions coming, I'm off to get more propane.                 

Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: JKL on April 29, 2011, 04:33:34 PM
What no LHBS?  I'd go with dry yeast if possible.  US-05 is great in a pinch.  If not,  make the starter and pitch tonight or in the morning.  No worries, bro.  You have plenty of time, IMO.
-J.K.L.   
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: tschmidlin on April 29, 2011, 05:28:50 PM
If you scaled back to 5 gallons, you can just pitch both vials and be done with it.  That is way more than enough yeast for 5 gallons of 4-4.5% beer.

What kind of efficiency do you get?  Because unless you're down around 60% you're going to overshoot your target ABV.  Or did your target change?
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: Beer Monger on April 29, 2011, 05:34:33 PM
If you scaled back to 5 gallons, you can just pitch both vials and be done with it.  That is way more than enough yeast for 5 gallons of 4-4.5% beer.

What kind of efficiency do you get?  Because unless you're down around 60% you're going to overshoot your target ABV.  Or did your target change?

Yeah - sorry.  I realized what I'd posted earlier was about 1/2 of what he'd need.  Still 1/2 asleep over here.  (D'oh!)
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: tschmidlin on April 29, 2011, 05:39:06 PM
If you scaled back to 5 gallons, you can just pitch both vials and be done with it.  That is way more than enough yeast for 5 gallons of 4-4.5% beer.

What kind of efficiency do you get?  Because unless you're down around 60% you're going to overshoot your target ABV.  Or did your target change?

Yeah - sorry.  I realized what I'd posted earlier was about 1/2 of what he'd need.  Still 1/2 asleep over here.  (D'oh!)
I'm not sure you were that far off.  For a low gravity beer I think one pack is generally plenty, but with the tight timeline I'd recommend extra just to make sure it finishes in time.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: Beer Monger on April 29, 2011, 05:57:03 PM
If you scaled back to 5 gallons, you can just pitch both vials and be done with it.  That is way more than enough yeast for 5 gallons of 4-4.5% beer.

What kind of efficiency do you get?  Because unless you're down around 60% you're going to overshoot your target ABV.  Or did your target change?

Yeah - sorry.  I realized what I'd posted earlier was about 1/2 of what he'd need.  Still 1/2 asleep over here.  (D'oh!)
I'm not sure you were that far off.  For a low gravity beer I think one pack is generally plenty, but with the tight timeline I'd recommend extra just to make sure it finishes in time.

I'll admit, with some lower gravity beers (and since I split my 10 gallon batches into 2 fermenters), I have often just pitched one White Labs vial in each fermenter w/o making a starter. 

Other than vigorous fermentation taking a bit longer to get started, I have never really noticed any detrimental effects.  I will be making a starter for my next beer, however,  an OG 1.089 Imperial IPA.  :) 
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 06:00:58 PM
If you scaled back to 5 gallons, you can just pitch both vials and be done with it.  That is way more than enough yeast for 5 gallons of 4-4.5% beer.

What kind of efficiency do you get?  Because unless you're down around 60% you're going to overshoot your target ABV.  Or did your target change?

Uh oh...  My efficiency has been running close to 90 the last couple batches.  I'm guessing this will be a little strong?  9 lbs of malt plus a pound of corn.  9x36 =324+38=362/5 =1.072 predicted OG?  Take 85% of that, 1.061 or there abouts?  Does that sound right?  Probably end up closer to 6 or 6.5 ABV?  Took the pre-boil gravity.  7.4 gallons (28L) at 1.044.

I seem to have a bad habit of overshooting my goal.  I was gonna leave the corn out and then at the last minute I figured, screw it why not.  Well, I'm sure it will be ok, just need some moderation.

Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: tschmidlin on April 29, 2011, 06:49:43 PM
Some moderation and some extra yeast ;)  You can always dilute it post boil if you have fermenter space.

If you're always overshoothing though, you might want to take a look at how you're coming up with your recipes and make an adjustment.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 07:01:58 PM
If you're always overshoothing though, you might want to take a look at how you're coming up with your recipes and make an adjustment.
Recipe???

This one was sort of seat of my pants as you can tell.  I have been underestimating my efficiency because I keep thinking it shouldn't be as good as it has been but the last 5 batches have been pretty stable at 85-89%.  I started my first recipe at a 65% assumption and I've been working down each time from there.  But, I drop the grain by 1 lb and I get more efficiency that seems to offset my change.  I think from here on, working at 87% will get me closer.

I keep telling myself my next beer will be a session mild at 3-4% but then something comes up and I change plans. 
I may try for a mild really soon, maybe even tomorrow since I'm gonna have to back off my O'fest plans until I get a really good starter going for that one.

Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on April 29, 2011, 09:18:05 PM
Final results were 23L of 1.060.  No room to water it down so it is what it is.  Could take a bit longer to ferment out now that it's higher.  Not worried about it.  If it's not done on time, I'll drink it later.  No sense rushing things if it turns out badly.  Still, 11 or 12 days on the yeast cake and then a fast force carb, should be do-able.  We shall see.
Thanks
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on May 09, 2011, 04:52:17 PM
Just an update.  Took a gravity today and it was 1.018 or 1.020.  Still got a bit to go.  Not sure what the final will be but I'm shooting for 1.012 to 1.014.  Tasted ok, good clarity from what I could see.
I'm a bit worried about it finishing out, some of my brews have seemed to take a very long time to finish up so I added gave it a bit of a shake and put it on top of a heating pad wrapped in a garbage bag.  The ambient temp in the room is about 65 degrees and it's sitting in a plastic bucket right on the concrete floor so I think it could be a bit cold.  Hopefully ramping it up 5 degrees will get it to finish.  I'll leave it on the yeast cake until Thursday.
One question.  I'm going to use gelatin to fine it.  Should I do that on Thursday and then keg Friday or should I keg first and then add the gelatin? 
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: jeffy on May 09, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
Just an update.  Took a gravity today and it was 1.018 or 1.020.  Still got a bit to go.  Not sure what the final will be but I'm shooting for 1.012 to 1.014.  Tasted ok, good clarity from what I could see.
I'm a bit worried about it finishing out, some of my brews have seemed to take a very long time to finish up so I added gave it a bit of a shake and put it on top of a heating pad wrapped in a garbage bag.  The ambient temp in the room is about 65 degrees and it's sitting in a plastic bucket right on the concrete floor so I think it could be a bit cold.  Hopefully ramping it up 5 degrees will get it to finish.  I'll leave it on the yeast cake until Thursday.
One question.  I'm going to use gelatin to fine it.  Should I do that on Thursday and then keg Friday or should I keg first and then add the gelatin? 
It should be cold before using gelatin.  I guess it may depend on whether you plan on reusing the yeast, because if you fine it before you keg then the yeast will have a layer of gelatin on it.  I don't know how much difference that makes, but it may be something to consider.  I usually use gelatin in the keg.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: gmac on May 14, 2011, 06:34:14 PM
Today's the day.  Party is tonight and the beer is done.  I put it on CO2 at 30PSI for the night and shook the heck out of it.  Just poured the first glass and I have to say, I think that this is my best beer so far.  The colour is good, the flavour is nice, good hop/malt balance.  Darker than you'd think a Cream Ale should be but I'm trying to match a specific beer brand that is darker.  I'm very happy with this one and I definitely think that this is going to be going into rotation!  Clarity is not bad but I think all the shaking didn't help any.  More settling time would be good.

First time using WLP001 and I really like it. 
Thanks for all the advice.
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: denny on May 14, 2011, 07:09:57 PM
Congrats, Graham!
Title: Re: 2 - Weeks to get it done
Post by: bluesman on May 15, 2011, 02:42:14 AM
Nice work. Glad it all worked out for you. It was a group effort and worked!

Although you did all the work.  :)