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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: BrewQwest on December 21, 2009, 03:50:40 PM

Title: Wyeast 1450
Post by: BrewQwest on December 21, 2009, 03:50:40 PM
Like many of you, my brewing got placed onto a budget for these economic times. I got my hands on this type of yeast and was just curious as to some of the Fav 50 brews people are brewing with this and the results.. pro or con .. of utilizing this strain(s) with the various styles????    cheers!!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on December 21, 2009, 04:11:42 PM
Well, as it turns out I'm pretty familiar with that yeast.  ;)  It's great for almost any American style where you want a clean fermentation profile and a nice full mouthfeel.  I use it for my Rye IPA, any AIPA, APA, American style robust porter.....stuff like that.  You can search the recipe wiki for some of the recipes I use it in.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bo_gator on December 21, 2009, 04:15:23 PM
I have used it in APAs and love it. My next brew with it is goin to be a Scottish 70/-
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on December 21, 2009, 04:15:52 PM
I bet it'll be great in that.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: BrewQwest on December 21, 2009, 04:58:45 PM
thanks for the responses denny and bo_,  I like the description you gave denny, it helps tremendously. I believe my next 11 gallon batch will see 5.5 for Wyeast 1450 and 5.5 for my previously harvested yeast.  I can foresee me harvesting the 1450 for future utilization's from now on....  This will be fun for comparisons.... cheers!!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on December 21, 2009, 05:15:28 PM
FYI Brewquest, starting in Jan. WY1450 will be a full time strain.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bo_gator on December 21, 2009, 08:02:49 PM
It is really fun to brew a double batch and split it between two different yeasts to what an impact the yeast truly has on the final beer...from what I have done there is a big difference between 1450 and 1056 in the same wort ;D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: thirsty on December 21, 2009, 08:47:37 PM
FYI Brewquest, starting in Jan. WY1450 will be a full time strain.

Great news!

 :D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: summy on December 22, 2009, 12:05:13 AM
Hey Denny.  Is your's the old CL-50 yeast?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Hokerer on December 22, 2009, 03:21:30 PM
Hey Denny.  Is your's the old CL-50 yeast?

Not Denny but yep, that's exactly what it is
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on December 22, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
I'd say yes with a caveat....it's been a long time since that yeast came from Brewtek.  It's been kept in my yeast bank for years and recultured, then given to Wyeast and recultured more.  So I wouldn't be surprised if there were subtle differences by this point.  But it certainly started out as CL-50.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dan1076 on December 23, 2009, 05:13:31 AM
Its a great yeast and I wish I would have had for Denny's BVIP.  glad to hear it is going full time in January
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: ryan6458 on January 20, 2010, 06:23:31 AM
FWIW, I've brewed Denny's Rye IPA, Denny's BVIP, IPAs, APAs, Brown ales and Blonde ales with 1450 and they turned out great! :)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on January 20, 2010, 05:13:46 PM
From what I've heard, 1450 should have started being available full time as of last Monday.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on January 20, 2010, 05:58:00 PM
I'm a big fan of WLP001. How does it compare and/or differ from 001.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on January 20, 2010, 07:11:12 PM
I'm a big fan of WLP001. How does it compare and/or differ from 001.

i'm shocked you haven't tried it yet, bluesman.

the quick hits: bigger mouthfeel and slightly more accentuation on the malt character, slightly less attenuation (though that is certainly subjective).

I have found successive pitches yield greater attenuation than the first, bringing it in line with 001.  That is based only on 4 new packs though.  I am currently fermenting my Cents IPA with a 1st gen of it, so we'll see if I have the same result.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on January 20, 2010, 07:12:04 PM
I'm a big fan of WLP001. How does it compare and/or differ from 001.

Much fuller mouthfeel, kinda silky.  Never having used 001 more than once, that's about the best I can do!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on January 20, 2010, 07:44:03 PM
I will have to pick some up and give it a try. Maybe an APA to start.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on January 20, 2010, 08:14:54 PM
Maybe an APA to start.

goes well with a simcoe/amarillo pale ale, I can attest!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on January 20, 2010, 08:37:38 PM
Maybe an APA to start.

goes well with a simcoe/amarillo pale ale, I can attest!

How about Centennial and Cascade.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on January 20, 2010, 08:40:41 PM
I hear it goes pretty well in a Rye IPA....;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on January 20, 2010, 08:45:07 PM
Maybe an APA to start.

goes well with a simcoe/amarillo pale ale, I can attest!
How about Evil Twin with this yeast?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on January 20, 2010, 08:50:32 PM
Maybe an APA to start.

goes well with a simcoe/amarillo pale ale, I can attest!
How about Evil Twin with this yeast?

done it twice - comes out great - I prefer US-05 on that one though - strictly personal preference though.

bluesman - cents and cascade are classic - bitter with columbus??
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on January 20, 2010, 08:53:35 PM
Just checked the Wyeast website, and it's now listed along with all their other full time yeasts!  WOO HOO!!!!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on January 20, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
Just checked the Wyeast website, and it's now listed along with all their other full time yeasts!  WOO HOO!!!!

Denny...your not partial or shy are ya?  ;D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on January 20, 2010, 08:55:30 PM
Only shy on brains!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: babalu87 on January 20, 2010, 10:03:38 PM
I'm a big fan of WLP001. How does it compare and/or differ from 001.

Much fuller mouthfeel, kinda silky.  Never having used 001 more than once, that's about the best I can do!

Stout

It screams Stout to me

I'll try a split fermentation next time with 1450 and 1007
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: pinnah on January 21, 2010, 08:57:44 PM

It screams Stout to me


Yea buddy!

I am going to have a go at blatz' Foreign Extra Stout with it next. 8)

mmm
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: skyler on January 22, 2010, 03:13:17 AM
Gotta say I was very pleased with 1450's perfomance with my hoppy red ale (something like mendocino's red tail ale or north coast's red seal) - it made a nice, creamy, balanced American-style beer. But, I wasn't as happy with 1450's perfomance in less-balanced hoppy beer I used it for. I made an all-Amarillo IPA (very simple recipe) and the beer is a good deal less "hoppy" than it should be on paper. Also, I think the creamy mouthfeel just doesn't work for me with the style. So, I would say that the yeast is great for darker beers and maltier ones, but not my first choice in a standard west coast pale ale or IPA.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: ryan6458 on January 22, 2010, 07:22:13 AM
So, I would say that the yeast is great for darker beers and maltier ones, but not my first choice in a standard west coast pale ale or IPA.

Interesting. I'd say it's my favorite IPA yeast.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on January 22, 2010, 02:45:22 PM
So, I would say that the yeast is great for darker beers and maltier ones, but not my first choice in a standard west coast pale ale or IPA.

Interesting. I'd say it's my favorite IPA yeast.

Its #1 or 2.  There's an old hippie I know that would say its his favorite IPA yeast too.

Interesting comments though - I do agree it makes awesome porters and stouts, but I think its one of the most versatile strains out there (which makes me happy now that its year round).

YMMV
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on January 22, 2010, 04:36:39 PM
So, I would say that the yeast is great for darker beers and maltier ones, but not my first choice in a standard west coast pale ale or IPA.

Interesting. I'd say it's my favorite IPA yeast.

Same here....it's my go to yeast for every APA or AIPA that I make.  Remember, this yeast became my favorite by using it in Rye IPA.  I'll be using it in a batch of Old Stoner BW in a couple weeks.

"Old hippie"?????  I represent that remark!  ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: skyler on January 22, 2010, 08:12:58 PM
Same here....it's my go to yeast for every APA or AIPA that I make.  Remember, this yeast became my favorite by using it in Rye IPA.

Having just tapped Denny's Rye IPA last night (brewed exactly to his specifications - no substitutions), I think I overstated my point earlier, because Rye IPA with 1450 is pretty spectacular. But 1450 still isn't my favorite strain when it comes to dry, hoppy beers of the west coast variety - my Amarillo IPA came out rather McMenamins-esque with regards to hop character. But 1450 is my favorite strain for American-style ales of the more balanced persuasion.

Though I haven't tried it, yet, I agree that it screams "stout."
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on January 22, 2010, 08:23:29 PM
my Amarillo IPA came out rather McMenamins-esque with regards to hop character.

have you made this IPA before with another strain? 

the reason I ask is that while I love Amarillos, I really don't like them as a single IPA for the fact that their bitterness and flavor come across as 'soft'.  they work well taming down some of the more aggresive ones, and are wonderful as aroma hops, but they can't seem to give you that enamel scraping hop goodness like some of the others.  I made an all Amarillo IPA once and had similar comments to yours.  JMO.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: skyler on January 22, 2010, 09:37:30 PM

have you made this IPA before with another strain? 

the reason I ask is that while I love Amarillos, I really don't like them as a single IPA for the fact that their bitterness and flavor come across as 'soft'.  they work well taming down some of the more aggresive ones, and are wonderful as aroma hops, but they can't seem to give you that enamel scraping hop goodness like some of the others.  I made an all Amarillo IPA once and had similar comments to yours.  JMO.

I made a similar IPA recipe with all-summit and S-04 just before I made the Amarillo IPA. Of course there were fewer hops in the Summit one (because of the higher AA percentage). And I used English malt in the Amarillo IPA (Crisp MO and Simpson's Medium Crystal), and American malt in the Summit IPA (Briess Pale and Briess 60L). The beers were the same SRM, IBU (on paper), OG and FG. I mashed both at 150. There were 4 oz hops in the Summit IPA and 6 oz in the Amarillo IPA.

It is possible that what you say about Amarillo is true, that they are a "character actor" in the hop world (I have had great experience using Amarillo with Centennial). But what is really lacking in my beer isn't "bitterness" or "harshness" but hop flavor and aroma. It's all there, just hidden under a deeper malt character than expected. I will have to try another IPA with 1450... I have no shortage of Cascade, Summit, Simcoe, Willamette, or Nelson Sauvin at the moment... Maybe a Summit/Cascade/Simcoe IPA?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on January 29, 2010, 02:41:13 PM
I'm ordering a pack of 1450 late this afternoon so I'll get to try it for the first time.  I think I'll like it from the description and what everybody has said about it.  I was going to brew this weekend but its too damn cold so hopefully the weather will warm up a bit and I can make an IPA.  How is it for PA's?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on January 29, 2010, 03:10:21 PM
  How is it for PA's?

Maybe an APA to start.

goes well with a simcoe/amarillo pale ale, I can attest!

 ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Hokerer on January 29, 2010, 04:41:26 PM
  How is it for PA's?

Maybe an APA to start.

goes well with a simcoe/amarillo pale ale, I can attest!

 ;)

also a cascade pale ale as I can attest
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 03, 2010, 02:48:53 PM
It is really fun to brew a double batch and split it between two different yeasts to what an impact the yeast truly has on the final beer...from what I have done there is a big difference between 1450 and 1056 in the same wort ;D

What did you brew bo?  I'm thinking of making an 11 gallon batch and splitting it so I can do 1/2 with S-05 and 1/2 with 1450.  It will be a pale or blonde ale with an OG around 1.039 to 1.042 so it will be a starter for the 1450.   ;D  I'm waiting for MrMalty to load as I type this to see if I can do it.  I'm curious to what differences I might expect between the two?

I'm expecting my order to arrive today so I'll find out the manufacture date but I'm supposing its going to be quite fresh.  Even if it was made only a couple of weeks ago MrMalty says I need to make a starter about 1.5 quarts.  I would have thought an SG that low would be fine to pitch a single pack without a starter... any thoughts on it?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: pinnah on February 03, 2010, 05:07:49 PM


I would have thought an SG that low would be fine to pitch a single pack without a starter... any thoughts on it?

IME, starters seem to be a good idea with this yeast.  

But I bet you would be fine at 1.040.

Have Fun! :)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: enso on February 03, 2010, 05:24:08 PM
Interesting to read the origin of a "celebrity" yeast strain such as this.   ;)

I guess you've made it when you have your own yeast strain, eh?  So Denny, do you get royalties each time it is pitched?   :D

Inquiring minds want to know.  Anybody have the details on that other celebrity strain? 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 03, 2010, 05:40:01 PM
Interesting to read the origin of a "celebrity" yeast strain such as this.   ;)

I guess you've made it when you have your own yeast strain, eh?  So Denny, do you get royalties each time it is pitched?   :D

Uh, yeah....that's why I've retired and moved to the Bahamas!  ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: babalu87 on February 03, 2010, 05:49:34 PM
Interesting to read the origin of a "celebrity" yeast strain such as this.   ;)

I guess you've made it when you have your own yeast strain, eh?  So Denny, do you get royalties each time it is pitched?   :D

Uh, yeah....that's why I've retired and moved to the Bahamas!  ;)

The beer sucks and the water is worse for brewing
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 03, 2010, 05:53:41 PM
Interesting to read the origin of a "celebrity" yeast strain such as this.   ;)

I guess you've made it when you have your own yeast strain, eh?  So Denny, do you get royalties each time it is pitched?   :D

Uh, yeah....that's why I've retired and moved to the Bahamas!  ;)

must be nice... :D

My guess is that it would be tough to grow hops down there.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Hokerer on February 03, 2010, 06:07:01 PM
Uh, yeah....that's why I've retired and moved to the Bahamas!  ;)

The beer sucks and the water is worse for brewing

Hey, Kalik isn't all that but the (relatively) new Sands stuff isn't half bad.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: roffenburger on February 04, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
Denny, Have you ever tired 1450 in cider? Anyone else?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 04, 2010, 05:37:33 PM
Nope, never have, but my feeling is that yeast doesn't make a ton of difference in cider.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: roffenburger on February 04, 2010, 07:58:13 PM
I was just wondering if maybe it would add some mouthfeel that normally wouldn't be present. I've used nottingham and I like the attenuation level when compared to wine yeast and champagne yeast.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 04, 2010, 07:59:16 PM
Where's the best place to order 1450 from?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on February 04, 2010, 08:06:52 PM
Where's the best place to order 1450 from?

WYeast I think!

Sorry I could not resist.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 04, 2010, 09:01:13 PM
Bluesman, I ordered 1450 from MW and it came fresh, mfd was Jan. 19th 2010.  I don't know if thats what you're looking for or not?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 04, 2010, 09:04:42 PM
Bluesman, I ordered 1450 from MW and it came fresh, mfd was Jan. 19th 2010.  I don't know if thats what you're looking for or not?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: crabber on February 05, 2010, 03:06:06 AM
Well I'm noticing the aforementioned attenuation issue with my first generation.  I made a 10 gallon batch, one fermenter got S-33 and the other got 1450.  The S-33 finished at 1.014, the 1450 at 1.024.   ???
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: mikeypedersen on February 05, 2010, 03:32:25 PM
Well I'm noticing the aforementioned attenuation issue with my first generation.  I made a 10 gallon batch, one fermenter got S-33 and the other got 1450.  The S-33 finished at 1.014, the 1450 at 1.024.   ???
What was your OG on that beer and what temp did you ferment?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 05, 2010, 05:17:49 PM
Well I'm noticing the aforementioned attenuation issue with my first generation.  I made a 10 gallon batch, one fermenter got S-33 and the other got 1450.  The S-33 finished at 1.014, the 1450 at 1.024.   ???

I kegged a batch yesterday that was made with first gen 1450.  Went from 1.059 to 1.010 in 3 1/2 weeks at 62-63F.  That's about 83% AA.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 05, 2010, 05:29:14 PM
Well I'm noticing the aforementioned attenuation issue with my first generation.  I made a 10 gallon batch, one fermenter got S-33 and the other got 1450.  The S-33 finished at 1.014, the 1450 at 1.024.   ???

I kegged a batch yesterday that was made with first gen 1450.  Went from 1.059 to 1.010 in 3 1/2 weeks at 62-63F.  That's about 83% AA.

What syle beer did you make? What mash temp?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 05, 2010, 05:32:03 PM
Well I'm noticing the aforementioned attenuation issue with my first generation.  I made a 10 gallon batch, one fermenter got S-33 and the other got 1450.  The S-33 finished at 1.014, the 1450 at 1.024.   ???

I kegged a batch yesterday that was made with first gen 1450.  Went from 1.059 to 1.010 in 3 1/2 weeks at 62-63F.  That's about 83% AA.
What syle beer did you make? What mash temp?

Rye APA.  Mashed at 152, 1.58 qt./lb., for 60 min.  And yes, my thermometer was recently calibrated!  ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: mikeypedersen on February 05, 2010, 05:38:56 PM
Crabber  - How about you?  Did you make a starter?  Mash temp? Fement temp?

I'm gonna use this yeast the next time I make an APA or IPA, I feel so left out right now!  ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 05, 2010, 05:59:30 PM
Crabber  - How about you?  Did you make a starter?  Mash temp? Fement temp?

I'm gonna use this yeast the next time I make an APA or IPA, I feel so left out right now!  ;)

For me, I made a 3 qt. starter.  I let it ferment out, put it in the fridge overnight, decanted the spent wort before pitching the slurry.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on February 05, 2010, 06:24:21 PM
the previous 4 times I've started up with a 1st gen, I have had attenuation issues, however, in my recent Centennial IPA - I got 79.7% AA with 1st gen.

I was lazy this time - 12gal batch, 2L on stir plate with 1 pack, then decant and split the cake into 2 - 2L flasks added 2L of fresh wort and let er rip for 2 days.

One thing I did differently this time was to pitch about 63-64 and ferment ~65df instead of pitching colder and keeping it around 62.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: ryan6458 on February 05, 2010, 06:29:59 PM
One thing I did differently this time was to pitch about 63-64 and ferment ~65df instead of pitching colder and keeping it around 62.

+1. I've had the best luck pitching at 64-66 degrees and fermenting at 66-68 degrees. I hope this thread doesn't make this yeast strain sound too temperamental. It's a very strong and reliable fermenter as long as it isn't pitched too cool. AA% numbers are closer to WLP051 than WLP001.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 05, 2010, 06:36:47 PM
Denny,

Do you still have that yeast in your bank? If I want to get it into our club's bank I may as well go to the source and save the $8 for a WYeast pack  ;)

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on February 05, 2010, 06:37:14 PM
well, in all fairness to ryan, it was his suggestion to me that I changed that up  ;D

and true - it really is not that tempermental - especially after 1st gen.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: ryan6458 on February 05, 2010, 06:40:38 PM
I remember Brewhobby had some trouble with this yeast as well and I asked him what temp he was fermenting. Sure enough, he had pitched around 60 and was fermenting at that temp.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 05, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
Denny,

Do you still have that yeast in your bank? If I want to get it into our club's bank I may as well go to the source and save the $8 for a WYeast pack  ;)

Kai

Nope, I don't...once we got a microbiologist as our cl;ub pres., I turned everything over to him.  He's gone pro now and doesn't keep the bank any more, so I just get it from Wyeast like everybody else!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on February 05, 2010, 06:54:26 PM
I remember Brewhobby had some trouble with this yeast as well and I asked him what temp he was fermenting. Sure enough, he had pitched around 60 and was fermenting at that temp.

I remember that.  Hope it wasn't his frustration with 1450 that threw him over the edge with brewing!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 05, 2010, 07:01:07 PM
Nope, I don't...once we got a microbiologist as our cl;ub pres., I turned everything over to him.  He's gone pro now and doesn't keep the bank any more, so I just get it from Wyeast like everybody else!

I guess someone in our club will buy it. private Yeast banks have become less important these days with the amount of quality yeast avaliable from companied like WL and WYeast. But it will be a fun learning experience and hopefully saves other brewers some money.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on February 05, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
no offense, kai, but wouldn't it cost your at least $5 to get the yeast slant from denny anyway?  only saves you like $2 or so?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 05, 2010, 07:14:12 PM
no offense, kai, but wouldn't it cost your at least $5 to get the yeast slant from denny anyway?  only saves you like $2 or so?

I don't need to send a slant. Filterpaper sandwiched between aluminum foil works too. Then streak it on a plate and select a colony to innoculate a slant and a stab culture.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on February 05, 2010, 07:44:14 PM
okay, that all sounds greek to me.  so i guess you mean, it'll fit in an envelope?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 05, 2010, 07:49:04 PM
okay, that all sounds greek to me.  so i guess you mean, it'll fit in an envelope?

yes. It should be simple first class letter mail both ways. I don't know what the current postage is since it keeps changing. I haven't tried it myself but others have done it with success. 

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: roffenburger on February 05, 2010, 08:05:04 PM
okay, that all sounds greek to me.  so i guess you mean, it'll fit in an envelope?

yes. It should be simple first class letter mail both ways. I don't know what the current postage is since it keeps changing. I haven't tried it myself but others have done it with success. 

Kai

Would you like me to send you some?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: crabber on February 06, 2010, 03:21:01 AM
One thing I did differently this time was to pitch about 63-64 and ferment ~65df instead of pitching colder and keeping it around 62.
Yep, I pitched around 60 and fermented in the low 60's.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 06, 2010, 03:23:49 AM
Would you like me to send you some?

Let me get some more yeast bank supplies first.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 03:16:48 PM
What's the ideal and desired attenuation with this yeast?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 06, 2010, 03:36:31 PM
What's the ideal and desired attenuation with this yeast?

If we talk about attenuation of a yeast, we should always talk about how close the yeast comes to the attenuation limit (wort fermentability) given typical fermentation conditions.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 04:24:27 PM
What's the ideal and desired attenuation with this yeast?

If we talk about attenuation of a yeast, we should always talk about how close the yeast comes to the attenuation limit (wort fermentability) given typical fermentation conditions.

Kai

True. I guess I should be more specific with recipe details.

Typically speaking...an IPA mashed at 150F with 95% 2-row and 5% medium crystal.

Pitched at 64F and fermented at 68F.

What is the ideal attenuation?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 06, 2010, 04:37:45 PM
Ideal?  Who knows.  Expected would be in the 75-80% area.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 06:38:33 PM
Ideal?  Who knows.  Expected would be in the 75-80% area.

The reason I ask is because you mentioned in an earlier post about how 1450 has a fuller, silkier mouthfeel as compared to WLP001.

...but yet given the level of attenuation on your latest beer (finishing at 1.010), wouldn't that be considered on the dry side?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 06, 2010, 06:42:18 PM
Ideal?  Who knows.  Expected would be in the 75-80% area.

The reason I ask is because you mentioned in an earlier post about how 1450 has a fuller, silkier mouthfeel as compared to WLP001.

...but yet given the level of attenuation on your latest beer (finishing at 1.010), wouldn't that be considered on the dry side?

IME, mouthfeel doesn't necessarily relate to FG.  For instance, fermenting 05, 1056 and 1450 to the same FG will yield differences in the mouthfeel and dryness of the beer.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 06, 2010, 07:34:52 PM
I had beers that finished at 1.006 without being thin. The OG was about 1.048. But it was a different yeast. 

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 07:36:26 PM
I had beers that finished at 1.006 without being thin. The OG was about 1.048. But it was a different yeast. 

Kai

What was the recipe?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 08:24:27 PM
Specific gravity is the heaviness of a substance compared to that of water. Water being at 1.000. Anything higher than that (water) will have a higher viscocity.

If one beer finishes at 1.023 and another finishes at 1.010, the beer that finished at 1.023 will have a higher viscocity and therefore fuller mouthfeel.

When I make an IPA that finishes at 1.016 vs another that finishes at 1.010, the higher finishing gravity will lend more mouthfeel than the lower gravity.

This is what I have always known to be true.

Here's some data to show what I have just explained.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/sgvisc.html

Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 09:11:41 PM
A University of California study entitled "Instrumental Evaluation of the mouthfeel of Beer and Coorelation of Sensory Evaluation" identified the following compounds believed to be related to the mouthfeel of beer.

protein, glycerol, B-glucan, polyphenols, viscosity, dextrins, chloride, alcohol and carbon dioxide

 Kai - I think you'll enjoy this!

http://appliedsensory.com/Documents/Inst%20Eval%20of%20the%20MF%20of%20Beer.pdf

Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 06, 2010, 10:01:42 PM
What was the recipe?

It was a Weissbier and I tested a number of yeasts. The odd one is a yeast that must have started as WLP351. I have it in my bank as 351-1. It results in very poor head retention, clove dominated aroma/taste and a final gravity close to 1.5 Plato when other yeasts make it to 2.7 Plato with the same wort. Here is a blog entry that documents that: http://braukaiser.com/lifetype2/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=103&blogId=1

I also made a full batch with it but the poor head retention is a turn-off since the beer was pretty good otherwise.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 06, 2010, 10:08:22 PM
Specific gravity is the heaviness of a substance compared to that of water. Water being at 1.000. Anything higher than that (water) will have a higher viscocity.

In my experience I had watery beers that had a higher gravity than beers with lower gravity which had a fuller mouthfeel. I remember tasting a Doppelbock of mine against Spaten's Doppelbock and while mine had a less thick mouthfeel than the Spaten Doppelbock it also had a higher gravity. Ever since that experience and also after talking to other brewers there is much more to mouthfeel than attenuation. In particular the yeast and fermentation can play a big role.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 06, 2010, 11:32:16 PM
Specific gravity is the heaviness of a substance compared to that of water. Water being at 1.000. Anything higher than that (water) will have a higher viscocity.

In my experience I had watery beers that had a higher gravity than beers with lower gravity which had a fuller mouthfeel. I remember tasting a Doppelbock of mine against Spaten's Doppelbock and while mine had a less thick mouthfeel than the Spaten Doppelbock it also had a higher gravity. Ever since that experience and also after talking to other brewers there is much more to mouthfeel than attenuation. In particular the yeast and fermentation can play a big role.

Kai


I don't necessarily disagree with that. But...

In my experience higher finishing gravity beers typically have more mouthfeel and visa-versa.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on February 07, 2010, 12:12:01 AM
I don't necessarily disagree with that. But...

In my experience higher finishing gravity beers typically have more mouthfeel and visa-versa.

I don't think either Kai or I would disagree with that.  But my experience is that there's something more than just that.  2 beers can finish at the same FG but have different mouthfeel.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 07, 2010, 12:26:28 AM
Agreed.

I'd like to know what the mechanism is that can make that happen.


Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: el_capitan on February 07, 2010, 02:59:38 AM
Agreed.

I'd like to know what the mechanism is that can make that happen.




I'm thinking it's "yeast-schmoo" or something along those lines.  Eh? 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 07, 2010, 12:54:13 PM
Agreed.

I'd like to know what the mechanism is that can make that happen.




I'm thinking it's "yeast-schmoo" or something along those lines.  Eh? 

 ;D  Now that was Funny!!   :D ;D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: Kaiser on February 07, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
In my experience higher finishing gravity beers typically have more mouthfeel and visa-versa.

True, this may be the case for most beers but here are some non yeast related mechanisms through which a lower gravity beer can have a fuller mouthfeel and viscosity than a higher gravity beer:

- beta glucans. Even in small amounts they tend to increase the viscosity significantly
- proteins: the same with beta glucans. It doesn't take much of them to increase the viscosity.

I have yet to read that paper, though. The title sound interesting. Thanks.

Kai
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 07, 2010, 05:59:13 PM
That has been shown to be the case in the study I posted. I wonder how different yeasts can affect the final viscosity of beer. Perhaps that is a whole new topic.  8)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 12, 2010, 03:30:22 PM
I used this yeast after stepping it up two times then split the yeast into two carboys, both having the same wort, same quantities.  The yeast was very fresh and at first I wasn't sure what I was seeing after only an hour and a half or two in both fermenters, foam from aerating or yeast at work because I still had a nice layer at the top.  I did see slight activity in one airlock, nothing vigorous only a slight rise in the one.  Sometime in the night both took off nicely though and I could see with no doubt the yeast was working because it was definitely krauzen and both airlocks were plunking away.  I had pitched the yeast at about 60 degrees.

The funny part is this, today only one was working (judging by airlock activity anyway).  I've since moved that one near a heat supply vent and its working again.  The other one which is the carboy that actually received the least amount of yeast, because I couldn't judge accurately the amount I poured in the first carboy, has never stopped showing airlock activity.  Here is what I think happened.  Although I left some liquid after decanting and swirled, a greater quantity settled to the bottom possibly so the second carboy may have received more yeast cells than the first carboy?  It really doesn't matter I suppose but it has me curious.

So far I like this yeast.  I love the smell, its definitely got a soft yeasty aroma which I hope will be there in the taste as well.  Another thing I can see that I will like is this yeast does seem to like it just a little bit warmer, I've got it in the computer room which is roughly 64 to 65 degrees so it might be a good yeast during the warmer months.  Just tuck your fermenter away in a somewhat cool spot during summer and I bet this yeast willl perform well and hopefully not create fusels like other yeast might.

Just thought I'd post my opinion on it so far.   :)

Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 22, 2010, 05:57:14 PM
Just an update on this yeast from my first time using it.  Clean tasting and nice attenuation, thats about it... maybe a little tartness to it but I don't know yet because I did two different carboys and one is still in the carboy conditioning whereas one I kegged still cloudy (yeh its really slow flocculating) and its been conditioning outside a few days now ranging from ~30* to 40* depending on weather, day and night etc.  Tastewise... its good, even if I kegged it a bit soon.   ;D  Got a rye brew on the slurry from it now.   8)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bspisak on February 23, 2010, 04:42:59 PM

Just did a 5 gallon split batch (2.5 each) with this yeast and WLP001. The 1450 was right from the smack pack after about 6 hours and the WLP001 from a starter that had krausened but not been chilled. The 1450 took off much faster. Perhaps that is a thumbs up to the Wyeast smack packs.

Question: I keep hearing 1450 has a full mouthfeel. What exactly is it about this yeast that gives that impression?  I always associated mouthfeel with other parameters of the recipe/process but never the yeast.

Brian
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bspisak on February 23, 2010, 09:34:21 PM

Oh, I just read back in the thread and found my answer (to why 1450 has a better mouthfeel): "yeast-schmoo."  LoL.

I too would be interested in a quantitative answer. I'll be able to qualitatively answer this when my split batch is done. ;-)

Brian
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bspisak on February 23, 2010, 10:18:18 PM
A University of California study ... identified the following compounds believed to be related to the mouthfeel of beer.

protein, glycerol, B-glucan, polyphenols, viscosity, dextrins, chloride, alcohol and carbon dioxide

http://appliedsensory.com/Documents/Inst%20Eval%20of%20the%20MF%20of%20Beer.pdf

Excellent read. That pretty much addresses what components create a perception of mouthfeel. One can infer that several of these are yeast related.  I wonder which one(s) 1450 is contributing?

Brian
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on February 24, 2010, 12:55:59 AM
A University of California study ... identified the following compounds believed to be related to the mouthfeel of beer.

protein, glycerol, B-glucan, polyphenols, viscosity, dextrins, chloride, alcohol and carbon dioxide

http://appliedsensory.com/Documents/Inst%20Eval%20of%20the%20MF%20of%20Beer.pdf

Excellent read. That pretty much addresses what components create a perception of mouthfeel. One can infer that several of these are yeast related.  I wonder which one(s) 1450 is contributing?

Brian

That my friend is a good question. Maybe "Yeast Schmoo"  :-\
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 24, 2010, 11:59:48 AM
I think Yeast Schmoo should be entered into the homebrewers lexicon.   ;D :D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: skyler on February 25, 2010, 12:27:57 AM
Ok, I'm ready to try again. 2 of my next 4 beers are going to be 1450'd - another Red Seal-inspired beer (calling it "Clubbed Seal Ale"), and some form of IPA - maybe a toned-down Pliny clone.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 25, 2010, 01:18:50 PM
I'm thinking of calling mine Rye'der on the Storm or Pale Rye'der.   ;D :D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on February 26, 2010, 03:56:17 PM
I like WY1450... it seems to give more real beer flavor imo... maltier flavor with somewhat of a silky mouthfeel.  I'm impressed with it so far.   ;D
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: brewmichigan on March 08, 2010, 05:50:57 PM
I just pitched a healthy slurry of wyeast 1450 into a 1.048 OG Pale Ale yesterday. I noticed in this thread some people mention the yeast performs a little sluggishly at/or around 60 degrees. I currently have this in the basement at 58 next to an IPA that was fermented at the same temp using US-05. I wanted to do an experiment and see if the 1450 would work well under those conditions. Does everyone think I should move this into the mid 60's (ambient) instead?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on March 08, 2010, 05:52:13 PM
I'd say it depends on what you want...like you say, it may be sluggish at that temp.  If you're in a hurry, moving it to the mid 60s is fine.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on March 08, 2010, 06:52:06 PM
I just ordered some of this yeast. I'll try an APA with it first.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: mikeypedersen on March 08, 2010, 07:02:48 PM
I just ordered some of this yeast. I'll try an APA with it first.
I'm trying it for the first time also.  I just pulled a gallon off of my stir-plate over the weekend.  It's in the fridge crashing now and I plan to brew Denny's Rye IPA over this coming weekend.  It looks like it's kind of slow to floc, but that doesn't really bother me.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: brewmichigan on March 09, 2010, 01:23:16 PM
I'd say it depends on what you want...like you say, it may be sluggish at that temp.  If you're in a hurry, moving it to the mid 60s is fine.

I took a temperature reading this morning. I was mistaken, it's colder than I thought. The beer is at 55.6 degrees right now but still  moving along nicely. I don't need this beer done for another 2 weeks so would it hurt anything to leave it there and move it to a warmer location if it has trouble finishing?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on March 09, 2010, 04:24:39 PM
I'd say it depends on what you want...like you say, it may be sluggish at that temp.  If you're in a hurry, moving it to the mid 60s is fine.

I took a temperature reading this morning. I was mistaken, it's colder than I thought. The beer is at 55.6 degrees right now but still  moving along nicely. I don't need this beer done for another 2 weeks so would it hurt anything to leave it there and move it to a warmer location if it has trouble finishing?

Wow, that is pretty cool for it!  But as long as it's still working, your plan sounds good to me!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: ryan6458 on March 10, 2010, 04:19:37 PM
Hey Denny, have you noticed that this yeast tends to fall into a groove? What I mean by that is that the last three beers I've brewed have taken off like mad the first two or three days, then the krausen falls about halfway down and the yeast goes from nearly blowing the lid off of the fermenter, to more a a slow and steady fermentation. This seems to happen when the yeast is at about 50% AA. Most other yeast strains I've used seem to go crazy until about 90% done.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on March 10, 2010, 04:26:53 PM
I think that's about right, Ryan.  Although since I'm fermenting in buckets I can't really see what's going on.  I don't even bother checking it until 2 weeks in.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: blatz on March 10, 2010, 04:33:55 PM
Hey Denny, have you noticed that this yeast tends to fall into a groove? What I mean by that is that the last three beers I've brewed have taken off like mad the first two or three days, then the krausen falls about halfway down and the yeast goes from nearly blowing the lid off of the fermenter, to more a a slow and steady fermentation. This seems to happen when the yeast is at about 50% AA. Most other yeast strains I've used seem to go crazy until about 90% done.

+1
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: gimmeales on March 10, 2010, 07:31:42 PM
My experience with 1450 was also that it was slower and steady (though still very attenuative) compare to say, US-05 which rips through seemingly any wort in 3 days.  Will be using 1450 again in the next week or two - a fine yeast that I'm glad has become a year-round offering!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: ryan6458 on March 10, 2010, 08:07:29 PM
I think that's about right, Ryan.  Although since I'm fermenting in buckets I can't really see what's going on.  I don't even bother checking it until 2 weeks in.

Yeah, I bought a couple buckets at a local restaurant supply store and they're slightly translucent so I can make out the krausen. I just happened to notice my airlock slow down after a couple days and saw the krausen had fallen a bit. Took a gravity reading(Rye IPA, BTW) and it's down from 1.071 to 1.042 after three days. Two days later and its at 1.036. 3 points a day isn't a very vigorous fermentation so I'm raising the temp up to 68-69 degrees.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dean on March 10, 2010, 08:54:39 PM
Mine have been within two or three points of finishing after a week but it needs at least a couple if not three weeks to really finish.  My rye IPA after only a week tasted very bland, no hop flavor or aroma... tasted like cream of wheat hot cereal really, but it was only a week into the fermentation.  Now the hop flavor and aroma are coming forward and it tastes like beer.  I'm kegging it this weekend which puts it at three weeks from start of fermentation. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on March 11, 2010, 05:06:57 PM
I'm kegging it this weekend which puts it at three weeks from start of fermentation. 

That;s pretty much my schedule with it, too.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on April 06, 2010, 01:45:04 PM
Well I finally bought some. I prepared a starter last night. Does anyone harvest this yeast, if so how does it perform. How many times? Reharvest each time?

I'm making an IPA with it.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on April 06, 2010, 04:10:26 PM
I always harvest and reuse it, at least 3-5 times, depending on the beers I make. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: mikeypedersen on April 12, 2010, 05:40:15 PM
Well, finally brewed Denny's Rye IPA with this yeast this weekend.  I started with a 1.5 liter starter on a stir plate, then to a 3 quart starter on a stir plate also chilled and decanted.  Then 2 days before brewing I put it into a very small starter to wake up the yeast, since it had been in the fridge for a few weeks.  Brewed a 10.5-ish gallon batch split into 2 - 6.5 gallon fermenters and it made a mess of my fermentation chest!   :-\ 

First, I forgot to switch out the airlocks for blowoff tubes on before I went to bed  ::) .  Then when I did get the tubes on (first thing next morning), I had the tubes in their own 1/2 gallon mason jars a little less than half full of sanitizer.  Every couple hours those were erupting with foam and yeast from all the blow-off.  Whoops!  I guess I may have overpitched a little, but man did that thing take off like a rocket!  I'll wait for the slow-down that everyone else seems to experience then slowly begin to step up the temp.   :)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: bluesman on April 13, 2010, 12:39:32 AM
I made an IPA today. Tastes like it's going to be really good. I bittered with CTZ and used a hopburst schedule with Centennial/Cascade...20/15/10/5/0.

I pitched a 3L starter with 1450.

Looking forward to the end product.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dak0415 on April 14, 2010, 04:07:43 PM
Denny,
Have you noticed an increase in fruitiness when fermenting at higher temps (68-70)?  Thinking of an ESB!

Dave
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: denny on April 14, 2010, 04:10:36 PM
Denny,
Have you noticed an increase in fruitiness when fermenting at higher temps (68-70)?  Thinking of an ESB!

Dave

I'm not sure I've ever run it that high, so I can't say.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1450
Post by: dee on April 23, 2010, 03:11:01 PM
I just made 10 gallons of a 67 IBU 1.065 American IPA and split it between (2nd gen.)1450 and US05.  There is a stark contrast between the two.  I prefer the 1450 in every respect and had several friends agree.  The US05 seemed thinner and less malty but had a little higher attenuation so that may account for that.  The mouthfeel is definitely smooth and creamy with the 1450 and the hop flavor seemed to complement the beer more.  It made a bolder and richer beer IMO.  I have no intention of using US05 again for an APA/IPA.  I split different yeast strains between batches nearly every time I brew and I cannot stress enough that yeast makes beer, not recipes.