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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: liquidbrewing on May 21, 2011, 06:39:24 PM

Title: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 21, 2011, 06:39:24 PM
Hey all!!  I have currently been fermenting my 10+ gallon batches in a 15.5 gallon keg and I love it.  I have been trying to find a source for buying 7.5 gallon kegs for 5 gallon batches.  Anyone know of any place that would sell used ones??  The tall ones not the short 1/4 barrels.  I'd like to get it legit, but the 7.5 gallon keg of Two Hearted they have at my local liquor store is looking mighty tempting!  $100.00 for a new fermenter and it comes with my favorite beer!!  

Dilemma ???
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: majorvices on May 21, 2011, 07:32:41 PM
I own my own small brewery and have thousands of dollars wrapped up in cooperage. The deposit doesn't even come close to paying for the cost of the keg. Understand that what you are contemplating hurts brewers very badly and raises the costs for all of us. It is essentially stealing.

There's also a huge market out there for used kegs so you are going to have a hard time finding one. You could look at GWkent.com to look into purchasing a new one, but I urge you not to go out and steal one for your own purposes.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 21, 2011, 07:38:22 PM
 I'd like to get it legit,

Dilemma ???

Why don't you sell me four 7.5 sanke's then??

GWkent.com  seriously???  I"m small time dude.  I didn't even make $10,000 last year.  Let alone, can I afford that much to pay for a fermenter.

Why isn't there a source for equipment like this, like I said, I'd rather pay for one but there are no online sources and everyone local doesn't even respond to my communications.  They almost make you acquire it outside of the law, I mean seriously. 
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: narcout on May 21, 2011, 07:41:57 PM
It's not exactly what you're looking for, but you can get 10 gallon cornelius kegs for a good price here: www.chicompany.net

I have two of them that I use as fermentors, and they work very well.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: majorvices on May 21, 2011, 07:43:04 PM
I use 1/6th kegs, which are 5.25 gallons. And besides, I very often come up short on cooperage and have to buy new kegs. Makes it almost impossible to make money when you are having to spend $4000 on kegs every 3 months.

I know through my distributor that Bell's has been having a hard time keeping up with cooperage as well. You will do what you will do and no one can stop you but you should understand there are people out there barely managing to keep their businesses afloat (and in my case working 40+ hours a week for free) - don;t stab your brewing brothers in the back by stealing kegs.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 21, 2011, 07:48:53 PM
Yes, I've considered that.  I'm actually about to order one for a serving vessel.  What I like about the sanke kegs, is that I can throw it on my burner to sterilize it, before racking my wort.  Plus a carboy cap fits right over the opening and I have never had to install a blow off, even with some 9% beers.  That's why I like fermenting in kegs.  Plus theres no risk of breaking glass!  See Zymurgy Vol. 33 No. 1.  Jan/Feb 2010.  A guy nearly lost his hand with a glass carboy incident...I read this article at least once a month to remind me to be careful with my two glass carboys, everyone else should be careful as well.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 21, 2011, 07:51:21 PM
Majorvices, I understand you, believe me.  I'm not trying to upset you, or intentionally drive up the cost of craft brew.  As a small business owner myself, not brewing, I can understand this very issue.  You have made my mind up.  The two hearted will stay there.  Now the quest to find four 7.5 gal sanke's begins!!!

And I know what you mean about working for free.  It sucks when your business makes money, but you are unable to make payroll.  This fact has been in my life for the last 10 years...Whether you believe me or not.  I feel your pain.  Or is it my homebrew talking...

Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: majorvices on May 21, 2011, 07:55:16 PM
Good on ya, bro! Maybe look at some small breweries in your area. They often buy used kegs and sometimes find one or two in the lot with a leaky seal they can't use.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tubercle on May 21, 2011, 07:57:04 PM
Do what the rest of poor brewers do, use a plastic 7.5 gal bucket. It won't break and is sanitized perfectly with a few cents worth of star san. Or, scour the scrap yards.

Wanting something and not having the money to buy it never has been and never will be justification to obtain something illegally.
Try increasing you income or or cutting your out go or sacrificing somthing until you have the money to buy it.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tygo on May 21, 2011, 07:59:52 PM
What about ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/15-5-Gallon-Sanke-Beer-keg-Beer-Wine-/250822857622?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a66351396

I don't know if there's any way to determine if these were legally obtained kegs before buying.  And with shipping it's more like $150.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 21, 2011, 08:05:42 PM
Do what the rest of poor brewers do, use a plastic 7.5 gal bucket. It won't break and is sanitized perfectly with a few cents worth of star san. Or, scour the scrap yards.

Wanting something and not having the money to buy it never has been and never will be justification to obtain something illegally.
Try increasing you income or or cutting your out go or sacrificing somthing until you have the money to buy it.

  Ummm, first of all, I said I wanted to buy one, I never said I wanted to steal one.  Secondly, you will always have to replace plastic buckets.  Third, the fermenters I was referring to on that GWkent.com site were seriously thousands of dollars.  Fourth...increase my income? Why didn't I think about that.  I'll just increase my income!!!  It's so easy when you're in the construction industry and new houses haven't been built in my area for almost 4 years.  But if  you wanna help increase my income, I'll email you my bank account number and you can help me increase my income... ;D

Somehow as I posted the original post, I knew this was going nowhere.  Aside from wasting my time and giving me some amusement!! 

And Tygo, thanks for the link, but If you read the original post, I already have a 15.5 gal keg.  I want 7.5 gal kegs to ferment my 5 gallon batches.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tygo on May 21, 2011, 08:13:42 PM
And Tygo, thanks for the link, but If you read the original post, I already have a 15.5 gal keg.  I want 7.5 gal kegs to ferment my 5 gallon batches.

Ah, yeah, missed that.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tschmidlin on May 21, 2011, 09:48:17 PM
What about ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/15-5-Gallon-Sanke-Beer-keg-Beer-Wine-/250822857622?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a66351396

I don't know if there's any way to determine if these were legally obtained kegs before buying.  And with shipping it's more like $150.
The seller is right by my house, can't be more than 10 miles.  Maybe I could go pick it up, if I wanted one.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: Will's Swill on May 22, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
You've probably tried this, but I see the 7.5 gallon sankes on CraigsList frequently. 
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tom on May 22, 2011, 03:54:26 PM
I got 2 "slim" quarter kegs from a wholesaler in Vancouver through the probrewer.com forum.  They were $80@ plus shipping.  I love them.  I can get 2 in my kegerator/fermentation chamber.  I was planning on using the original stainless spear, but have been happy just using the orange carboy cap.

What parts are you from?  Other sources are junkyards or ask your local brewery if they have any that are too damaged for them to use.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 23, 2011, 12:27:55 AM
I'm in Panama City Beach, FL.  No local breweries, nothing on craigslist locally.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 23, 2011, 03:12:14 AM
I'm in Panama City Beach, FL.  No local breweries, nothing on craigslist locally.
Did you try Sabco?
GW Kent is selling new kegs.
They have 1/2 BBL and 1/6BBL but not 1/4 BBL.

They are also keg sellers like Frankee beverages from TN but they want to sell you the whole skid or more.
You might have a hard time to find legit 1/4 keg.

Plastic Kegs America is selling 30 liter (1/4 BBL). The minimum order is 6 kegs.
also you can not use steam to sanitise them (to my knowledge).
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 23, 2011, 09:12:00 PM
Just a quick note.  Anyone telling me to buy one on ebay or craigslist, these are more than likely kegs that cannot be returned to the liquor store they were "rented" from because of a lack of a receipt.  So it's the same thing as me buying a keg full of beer and not returning it for the deposit.  I guess stealing is stealing, no matter how you slice it.

I'm checking on a couple companies online.  Finally found a couple sources.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: ryang on May 23, 2011, 09:52:32 PM
Forgive my potential ignorance. 
I've never bought a keg from the store, nor ever asked how the deposit works, but is there an expectation for you to return the keg?  In what time frame?  Are you legally required to do so?

If not, how is it stealing?  Morally stealing?
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 23, 2011, 10:16:29 PM
Well here in my area, the average deposit for a keg is $50.00.  Your not returning the keg and letting the store keep the $50.00 doesn't cover the cost of the keg.  Think about it.  The liquor store keeps the deposit, as far as I know, they don't own the keg you rent and the brewery loses a keg.  So, while I didn't care about this a couple years ago when I started brewing, I do have a couple Budweiser kegs in my employ, I won't lie,  I'm trying to do things the right way. 

You do raise a good point though, it's technically not stealing, you did pay for the keg, just not what it's worth and may be more morally wrong than illegal.  I think they should start charging more for deposits so people will keep up with their receipt and be more inclined to return the keg.  Of course, how many people have had an auto accident and not used the insurance money to repair their cars?? That's illegal as well, but it happens everyday.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: Will's Swill on May 24, 2011, 05:01:30 AM
Just a quick note.  Anyone telling me to buy one on ebay or craigslist, these are more than likely kegs that cannot be returned to the liquor store they were "rented" from because of a lack of a receipt.  So it's the same thing as me buying a keg full of beer and not returning it for the deposit.  I guess stealing is stealing, no matter how you slice it.

How is that stealing if it cannot be returned for the deposit?
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tschmidlin on May 24, 2011, 05:22:55 AM
Sorry, it is stealing.  Your deposit is not purchasing the keg.  You can only buy a keg from the owner, in this case the brewery.  The store can charge a deposit, but it is not theirs to sell.  If you can't return it for the deposit, it is because you have broken an agreement with the store, most likely for the timely return of the keg but you'd have to read the paperwork you signed for the keg to know for sure.  You are still legally obligated to return it.

It's a crappy system, but it's what we have.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: thomasbarnes on May 24, 2011, 08:48:42 AM
Although it's getting harder to get access to scrap yards these days, that's your source for "cheap" stainless steel. Sometimes you luck out and find scrapped kegs. Other than that, go to distributors and ask if they have any damaged kegs you can buy.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 24, 2011, 12:59:10 PM
Sorry, it is stealing.  Your deposit is not purchasing the keg.

Yeppers. 
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: liquidbrewing on May 25, 2011, 02:37:49 PM
Ok, so first off these things are called 1/4 barrel slim kegs, in case anyone is interested.  (7.75 US Gallons.)   I finally found an online source that would sell small amounts.  Thanks to Thirsty_Monk for suggesting this site.  It seems like they will sell very small amounts, as I asked for a quote for four and they got right back to me.

www.franke.com/beveragesystems/de/en/home.html

The person who got back to me quoted around $130 per keg, with about $35 a piece for shipping.  I guess four is out of my reach for now, I'm thinking about getting two.

This seems like a good source for brand new kegs, either used for serving or fermenting.  I would like to thank everyone for their input, it helped me spend the time to look for new legal kegs.   8)   Preeeeeesh!!
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tschmidlin on May 25, 2011, 08:30:48 PM
Did you let them know you wanted them for fermenters so if they were damaged that would be ok?  You might be able to get some cheaper ones from them.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tubercle on May 25, 2011, 09:56:05 PM
I'm still going to get one of these someday.

http://www.napafermentation.com/catalog_c127268.html
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 26, 2011, 02:28:28 AM
Did you let them know you wanted them for fermenters so if they were damaged that would be ok?  You might be able to get some cheaper ones from them.
I have talked to them.
I do not think this is the case.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: Will's Swill on May 27, 2011, 06:53:58 PM
Sorry, it is stealing.  Your deposit is not purchasing the keg.  You can only buy a keg from the owner, in this case the brewery.  The store can charge a deposit, but it is not theirs to sell.  If you can't return it for the deposit, it is because you have broken an agreement with the store, most likely for the timely return of the keg but you'd have to read the paperwork you signed for the keg to know for sure.  You are still legally obligated to return it.

It's a crappy system, but it's what we have.

BS.  The post I was responding to indicated that the keg could not be returned.  What am I gonna do, mail it to the brewery?

Edit: Just to be clear, I am not advocating stealing kegs or keeping rented kegs and foregoing the deposit.  Perhaps not even keeping a keg for which the deposit will not be returned (you have a point there).  But a keg that the liquor store won't take back?  That's gonna get the grinder.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tschmidlin on May 27, 2011, 07:13:56 PM
BS.  The post I was responding to indicated that the keg could not be returned.  What am I gonna do, mail it to the brewery?

Edit: Just to be clear, I am not advocating stealing kegs or keeping rented kegs and foregoing the deposit.  Perhaps not even keeping a keg for which the deposit will not be returned.  But a keg that the liquor store won't take back?  That's gonna get the grinder.
I'm sure they would take it back and not give you a deposit back, especially if you didn't have a receipt (which is what the post you responded to said).  If you are stuck with a keg and would like to return it to the brewery, call them and they will tell you where you can drop it off.  The distributors will take them no questions asked.  They won't give you any money for them, but then they shouldn't have to since it's not yours in the first place.

You can justify it to yourself any way you like, but it does not belong to you and is still a stolen keg, even if the liquor store won't take it.
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: Will's Swill on May 27, 2011, 07:40:22 PM
I freakin' hate it when you're right.  :P

I just called New Belgium (since their kegs seem to be popular for conversions), and asked them about this.  It turns out that it is becoming more common for their kegs to be rejected for return by liquor stores because stealing them from another customer in order to return it for the deposit is common.  Of course, in this case the keg is unlikely to come back to the liquor store that sold it, so apparenlty they won't take it, even if you're not asking for the deposit back.

But they did say that if I had an empty keg the brewery would come pick it up themselves because each keg costs them $140 making it worth their time.  I asked about returning it to the distributor, but they didn't seem keen on that.  I didn't ask why, perhaps they self distribute?

I'm still gunning for you on that mash depth v. efficiency thing, gonna do a side-by-side this weekend to check it out.  But I'll probably be wrong there, too.   ;)
Title: Re: 7.5 Gal Sanke kegs
Post by: tschmidlin on May 27, 2011, 07:50:53 PM
I freakin' hate it when you're right.  :P
;D

But they did say that if I had an empty keg the brewery would come pick it up themselves because each keg costs them $140 making it worth their time.  I asked about returning it to the distributor, but they didn't seem keen on that.  I didn't ask why, perhaps they self distribute?
It's possible the distributor pays a deposit on the keg to the brewery, so if they bypass the distributor, they get to keep it.  Maybe, just pulling it out of thin air.


I'm still gunning for you on that mash depth v. efficiency thing, gonna do a side-by-side this weekend to check it out.  But I'll probably be wrong there, too.   ;)
Let us know what you see. :)