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General Category => Beer Travel => Topic started by: hariii2 on May 25, 2011, 03:02:15 PM

Title: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: hariii2 on May 25, 2011, 03:02:15 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find some Westvleteren 12 for a wedding present?  I know that you can't "get" it here in the US, but I was just wondering if anyone had some extras......

Thanks,
hari
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: JKL on May 25, 2011, 05:11:45 PM
A few years back, my brother met a guy through E-bay and got a sixer each of red,blue, & yellow caps.  He even got a Westy crate.  The beer was cheap but the freight was "OUTRAGEOUS".  Then again, if you have the money, I'd say it's worth it to try one of the most reclusive beers in the world.
-J.K.L.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: gordonstrong on May 25, 2011, 05:27:43 PM
A better value is flying your own butt over there and trying them where they're best.

Still very hard to find in Belgium, though.  Even bottle shops have to do the "call them at the magic time and then go wait in line" schtick.  How's that for a distribution model?  You want it?  Come and get it.  But only when we tell you to.

You also have to realize how hit-or-miss this beer is too.  If it's on, it really is the best in the world.  If it's not, it sucks.  I mean, undrinkably sucks.  Hard to tell they are even the same beer.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: phillamb168 on May 26, 2011, 09:35:57 AM
A better value is flying your own butt over there and trying them where they're best.

Still very hard to find in Belgium, though.  Even bottle shops have to do the "call them at the magic time and then go wait in line" schtick.  How's that for a distribution model?  You want it?  Come and get it.  But only when we tell you to.

You also have to realize how hit-or-miss this beer is too.  If it's on, it really is the best in the world.  If it's not, it sucks.  I mean, undrinkably sucks.  Hard to tell they are even the same beer.

Alternatively you can go to the pub across the street from the brewery where they have it on draught. Supposedly. I dunno if they still do this.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: MDixon on May 26, 2011, 10:34:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/ansbeertv#p/u/3/jgBFS2RNjA0

An's the beer guy at my favorite beer bar/Vietnamese restaurant in Richmond, VA...Mekong.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: SiameseMoose on May 26, 2011, 11:06:18 AM
Alternatively you can go to the pub across the street from the brewery where they have it on draught. Supposedly. I dunno if they still do this.
The problem with the the pub, In de Vrede, is that the beers are served absolutely fresh. No maturing time at all. We tried all three, and none of them were ready to be served.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: gordonstrong on May 27, 2011, 03:34:59 AM
Alternatively you can go to the pub across the street from the brewery where they have it on draught. Supposedly. I dunno if they still do this.
The problem with the the pub, In de Vrede, is that the beers are served absolutely fresh. No maturing time at all. We tried all three, and none of them were ready to be served.

+1  Same experience.  Except they didn't have the 12.  The 8 was about a month old, and way too young to be served.

With very, very rare exceptions, Trappist beers aren't served on draught.  How did I know the 8 was a month old?  I looked at the date code on the bottle cap.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: skyler on May 27, 2011, 06:39:32 AM
Bought a 12 from a bottle shop in Brussels in December of 2009... just drank it to celebrate passing the NY bar... pretty good, but no better than Rochefort 10 or St. Bernardus 12, IMO.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: theoman on May 27, 2011, 08:37:00 AM
Bought a 12 from a bottle shop in Brussels in December of 2009... just drank it to celebrate passing the NY bar... pretty good, but no better than Rochefort 10 or St. Bernardus 12, IMO.

I agree on the 12. It's a bit overrated. The 6, on the other hand, doesn't get nearly enough attention.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: thomasbarnes on May 27, 2011, 10:05:50 AM
How close are the St. Bernardus beers to Westvleteren's line-up?
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: MDixon on May 27, 2011, 10:43:52 AM
IME pretty close. Part of the allure of W12 is how difficult it is to procure. If it was on the grocery store shelf on every corner of American would people still crave it? I suspect the answer is no...
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: johnf on May 27, 2011, 01:03:05 PM
When I have had Westvleteren it has been a banana bomb. I haven't had enough (2 12's and an 8) to be confident that I have the entire range of quality but every Rochefort I have bought off the shelf (dozens) has been better to me than every Westvleteren I have had. All Westveleteren were grey market offerings at beer bars in North America.

Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: gordonstrong on May 27, 2011, 01:38:44 PM
Keep looking. It's worth it once you get one that is good.

If you have a bottle in your hands but haven't bought it yet, I found that a good indicator of quality is whether it has noticeable floating flakes in it.  Hold it up to a light and take a look.  Not haze, not particulates -- flakes.  When a beer has that, I've found that it's gone off (some kind of oxidation, by taste). The beer will taste harsh, thin, and more bitter.  I use that approach when looking at Westmalle Dubbel and DeKoninck with success too.

I've had maybe two dozen of these beers, and maybe a handful were that amazing quality.  I had some back luck with buying the grey market beers in the US; those are mostly the ones that have been crap.  Anyone go to my talk on Belgian Dark Strongs at the AHA Conference in Chicago?  I had a case of that beer, and it had that problem.  Bought it local in Chicago at Sam's (now Binny's).

It's a fragile beer.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: johnf on May 27, 2011, 02:26:12 PM
Keep looking. It's worth it once you get one that is good.

If you have a bottle in your hands but haven't bought it yet, I found that a good indicator of quality is whether it has noticeable floating flakes in it.  Hold it up to a light and take a look.  Not haze, not particulates -- flakes.  When a beer has that, I've found that it's gone off (some kind of oxidation, by taste). The beer will taste harsh, thin, and more bitter.  I use that approach when looking at Westmalle Dubbel and DeKoninck with success too.

I've had maybe two dozen of these beers, and maybe a handful were that amazing quality.  I had some back luck with buying the grey market beers in the US; those are mostly the ones that have been crap.  Anyone go to my talk on Belgian Dark Strongs at the AHA Conference in Chicago?  I had a case of that beer, and it had that problem.  Bought it local in Chicago at Sam's (now Binny's).

It's a fragile beer.
No Chicago for me. I'm a newbie.

My wife and I have agreed in, in principal, to go the Belgium next year. The problem is I hate to fly international for a trip less than two weeks and we both work a lot so it is a little hard to schedule those trips. We managed Germany last year but probably won't leave the country (on vacation, I am in Japan now for work) this year. When we get to Belgium I will definitely make getting case(s) of Westvleteren via the beer phone a priority. Then I can bring it back, know it is fresh, store it well, and try them over time.

I am probably done with grey market as it tends to be about $15 and I've been burned every time. Not that $15 breaks the bank but the places that have some Westy in the back usually have a lot of good fresh stuff in the front.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: phillamb168 on May 27, 2011, 02:46:09 PM
Keep looking. It's worth it once you get one that is good.

If you have a bottle in your hands but haven't bought it yet, I found that a good indicator of quality is whether it has noticeable floating flakes in it.  Hold it up to a light and take a look.  Not haze, not particulates -- flakes.  When a beer has that, I've found that it's gone off (some kind of oxidation, by taste). The beer will taste harsh, thin, and more bitter.  I use that approach when looking at Westmalle Dubbel and DeKoninck with success too.

I've had maybe two dozen of these beers, and maybe a handful were that amazing quality.  I had some back luck with buying the grey market beers in the US; those are mostly the ones that have been crap.  Anyone go to my talk on Belgian Dark Strongs at the AHA Conference in Chicago?  I had a case of that beer, and it had that problem.  Bought it local in Chicago at Sam's (now Binny's).

It's a fragile beer.

We get that over on this side of the pond as well. I got a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that had lots of particulate in it. Unfortunately non-drinkable. You wanna talk sad, though - I ordered a bunch of Pliny (I have a case of 9 at home for Sunday's "Hopmageddon", but I wanted to have 11 or 12)  and had a coworker order two extra because of the shop's 2-bottles-per-customer limit. Well, he got his address wrong. Bottles were marked as undeliverable and have been on their way to be 'returned to sender' for about 4 weeks now. Two bottles of uber-fresh Pliny, sitting in a hot warehouse somewhere, now that's sad.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: johnf on May 27, 2011, 03:19:31 PM
Keep looking. It's worth it once you get one that is good.

If you have a bottle in your hands but haven't bought it yet, I found that a good indicator of quality is whether it has noticeable floating flakes in it.  Hold it up to a light and take a look.  Not haze, not particulates -- flakes.  When a beer has that, I've found that it's gone off (some kind of oxidation, by taste). The beer will taste harsh, thin, and more bitter.  I use that approach when looking at Westmalle Dubbel and DeKoninck with success too.

I've had maybe two dozen of these beers, and maybe a handful were that amazing quality.  I had some back luck with buying the grey market beers in the US; those are mostly the ones that have been crap.  Anyone go to my talk on Belgian Dark Strongs at the AHA Conference in Chicago?  I had a case of that beer, and it had that problem.  Bought it local in Chicago at Sam's (now Binny's).

It's a fragile beer.

We get that over on this side of the pond as well. I got a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that had lots of particulate in it. Unfortunately non-drinkable. You wanna talk sad, though - I ordered a bunch of Pliny (I have a case of 9 at home for Sunday's "Hopmageddon", but I wanted to have 11 or 12)  and had a coworker order two extra because of the shop's 2-bottles-per-customer limit. Well, he got his address wrong. Bottles were marked as undeliverable and have been on their way to be 'returned to sender' for about 4 weeks now. Two bottles of uber-fresh Pliny, sitting in a hot warehouse somewhere, now that's sad.

I was at Pivovarsky Klub in Prague last year. Basically a US style brewpub (amazing how many places you'll find those now, Tokyo has a few, I think the hallmark of the US beer culture is variety almost more than hops). They had Sierra Nevada bottles and, as I did the math in my head, about $10 a bottle. No thanks. But I imagine it is quite a novelty for the locals.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: phillamb168 on May 27, 2011, 03:31:06 PM
Keep looking. It's worth it once you get one that is good.

If you have a bottle in your hands but haven't bought it yet, I found that a good indicator of quality is whether it has noticeable floating flakes in it.  Hold it up to a light and take a look.  Not haze, not particulates -- flakes.  When a beer has that, I've found that it's gone off (some kind of oxidation, by taste). The beer will taste harsh, thin, and more bitter.  I use that approach when looking at Westmalle Dubbel and DeKoninck with success too.

I've had maybe two dozen of these beers, and maybe a handful were that amazing quality.  I had some back luck with buying the grey market beers in the US; those are mostly the ones that have been crap.  Anyone go to my talk on Belgian Dark Strongs at the AHA Conference in Chicago?  I had a case of that beer, and it had that problem.  Bought it local in Chicago at Sam's (now Binny's).

It's a fragile beer.

We get that over on this side of the pond as well. I got a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that had lots of particulate in it. Unfortunately non-drinkable. You wanna talk sad, though - I ordered a bunch of Pliny (I have a case of 9 at home for Sunday's "Hopmageddon", but I wanted to have 11 or 12)  and had a coworker order two extra because of the shop's 2-bottles-per-customer limit. Well, he got his address wrong. Bottles were marked as undeliverable and have been on their way to be 'returned to sender' for about 4 weeks now. Two bottles of uber-fresh Pliny, sitting in a hot warehouse somewhere, now that's sad.

I was at Pivovarsky Klub in Prague last year. Basically a US style brewpub (amazing how many places you'll find those now, Tokyo has a few, I think the hallmark of the US beer culture is variety almost more than hops). They had Sierra Nevada bottles and, as I did the math in my head, about $10 a bottle. No thanks. But I imagine it is quite a novelty for the locals.


Ouch, 10 euros a bottle? I paid 6. Still not worth it.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: johnf on May 27, 2011, 03:45:36 PM
I think $10 USD is about 6 Euro these days...

Prague is fairly expensive these days though, I think. My wife's parent's were stationed in Germany in the 90s while she was in school and she visited and said a beer was like 30 cents US or something. When we went last year it was like $5 for a Pilsner Urquell or whatever, $6-$7 for a pint of basically craft beer draught at Pivovarsky Klub and then $10 for a bottle of Sierra Nevada.

Viva la velvet revolution, I guess. Basically US prices. Tokyo is like US prices * 2, so no complaints.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: thomasbarnes on May 30, 2011, 06:21:02 AM
IME pretty close. Part of the allure of W12 is how difficult it is to procure. If it was on the grocery store shelf on every corner of American would people still crave it? I suspect the answer is no...

I suspect you're right, but I can't say for sure because I've never had any of the Westveteran beers. I figure that any Westy beers I get in the U.S. are gray market products imported by people who care more about profit than the beer itself, so they're likely to be in poor shape.

Also, while it might be a royal pain for beer geeks, I respect St. Sixtus' decision to keep production small. Their beer, their rules. Until I find the long green needed for a trip to Belgium, I'll stick with St. Bernardus.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on May 30, 2011, 11:52:59 AM
Still very hard to find in Belgium, though.

That hasn't been true for a couple years now, pubs in Brugge,Bouillon,Antwerpen and a few bottle shops all had Westvleteren for sale. Amsterdam has a couple places to buy too.

http://www.crackedkettle.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66_69
Has some but at a huge price and don't even ask about the shipping...



http://www.beerplanet.eu/index.php?cnt=0
None for sale but they will add a bottle to your order..

-
I've had enough Westvleteren 12`s to know they need a few years of aging before coming into great beer, 3yrs is just hitting its stride.


-
. If it was on the grocery store shelf on every corner of American would people still crave it? I suspect the answer is no...

That just might happen based on this old news report>
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF20101027_008

The article says that, due to the high costs of recent renovations, they are in talks with Belgian supermarket Colruyt to introduce their beer in stores throughout the country. This would be the first time that the beer is sold outside of the abbey itself (and the adjacent pub). Supplies will probably increase, even worldwide. The beer will probably be sold in a box of 3 (large?) bottles & a glass
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: beer_crafter on June 14, 2011, 05:35:37 PM
The problem with the the pub, In de Vrede, is that the beers are served absolutely fresh. No maturing time at all. We tried all three, and none of them were ready to be served.

I thought the Blonde was absolutely perfect that young. 
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: MDixon on June 15, 2011, 03:17:56 PM
It appears thirsty is right. A buddy in BE right now went to a bar where it wasn't when we tripped there many moons ago and now it's right on the menu. Figures...
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: gordonstrong on July 06, 2011, 03:25:12 PM
It appears thirsty is right. A buddy in BE right now went to a bar where it wasn't when we tripped there many moons ago and now it's right on the menu. Figures...

Time for another trip to Belgium.  Too bad the exchange rate sucks.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 06, 2011, 10:48:48 PM
The problem with the the pub, In de Vrede, is that the beers are served absolutely fresh. No maturing time at all. We tried all three, and none of them were ready to be served.

I thought the Blonde was absolutely perfect that young. 
I agreed. Simply amazing blonde. Reminds me that I want to brew one. Nice thing about the pub though is you can still take home a 6 pack, and the food was tasty.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: oscarvan on July 14, 2011, 02:29:06 AM
That hasn't been true for a couple years now, pubs in Brugge,Bouillon,Antwerpen and a few bottle shops all had Westvleteren for sale. Amsterdam has a couple places to buy too.

http://www.crackedkettle.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66_69
Has some but at a huge price and don't even ask about the shipping...


Hmmm, Raamsteeg 3 that's a stones throw from "De Zotte" may have to investigate.......
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 14, 2011, 03:55:26 PM
That hasn't been true for a couple years now, pubs in Brugge,Bouillon,Antwerpen and a few bottle shops all had Westvleteren for sale. Amsterdam has a couple places to buy too.

http://www.crackedkettle.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66_69
Has some but at a huge price and don't even ask about the shipping...


Hmmm, Raamsteeg 3 that's a stones throw from "De Zotte" may have to investigate.......
Cafe Golem right across the alley from Cracked Kettle has a great selection and is a nice place for a drink. Oh, and bring bottles to trade at Cracked Kettle and they'll usually hook you up.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tyrser on July 20, 2011, 09:15:35 AM
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find some Westvleteren 12 for a wedding present?  I know that you can't "get" it here in the US, but I was just wondering if anyone had some extras......

Thanks,
hari


Where are you from? Italy here and I may be interested into trading WV for US beers  ;)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 20, 2011, 01:33:49 PM
Cafe Golem right across the alley from Cracked Kettle has a great selection and is a nice place for a drink


That Golem was closed last august not sure if it opened  again.

Here is part of the beer list>

(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/th_beer089.jpg) (http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beer089.jpg)

(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/th_beer088.jpg) (http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beer088.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 20, 2011, 03:24:04 PM
I wonder why they were closed. They were open last March.

Similar photo:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4544653441_d3c2ecb8b2_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 20, 2011, 04:00:34 PM
They were also closed in april, asked @crakedkettle and he had no idea why it was closed.

But do you have photo like this ;D
(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/th_Gollem.jpg) (http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/Gollem.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 20, 2011, 04:18:00 PM
This is the only photo I could find of what we were drinking at Golem

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6003/5958336564_a4b695708d_z.jpg)

But I'll raise you this photo of Ludwig, the head brewer Koningshoeven pouring us samples of barrel aged quad from the barrels. Supposedly we were among the first people to ever taste this, as the barrel room was brand new.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4544653767_b38b88f19f_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 20, 2011, 04:34:20 PM
You win
But I'll raise you this photo of Ludwig, the head brewer Koningshoeven pouring us samples of barrel aged quad from the barrels. Supposedly we were among the first people to ever taste this, as the barrel room was brand new.

This is where I concede defeat :D
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 20, 2011, 05:09:12 PM
 ;D

And put to put this back on topic, here's a pic of some westy 12 at In de Vrede.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/4559415147_b756358e34_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 20, 2011, 05:43:22 PM
Lets not forget the Blond @ In de Vrede :D

(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beertour169.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 20, 2011, 06:11:45 PM
Let's not  ;D

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3468/4560044572_7d69645bfb_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 20, 2011, 08:29:18 PM
Now all together ;D

(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beertour170.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 20, 2011, 09:16:21 PM
I don't have that shot. The best I can do is the mixed 6 pack of 8's and 10's I got to go.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4559415155_c4b8400dbf_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 20, 2011, 09:49:27 PM
Nice photo but heres a 1997 Westy 12, everY beer on this menu was goood ;)

(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beer238.jpg)



direct link for better look

http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beer238.jpg

 ;D
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 20, 2011, 09:58:22 PM
You win this round. Where was that? Kulminator? I like the old school St Sixtus glass too.

Oh, I do have this. 1988 Eylenbosch Faro. Not as good as the '84 Gueuze though. Don't have any quality pics of that one, but it was quite tasty.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4559417921_dc42a9a1a8_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: phillamb168 on July 21, 2011, 08:30:47 AM
tankdeer - what camera are you using for these shots? I'm getting tired of the piss-poor res on my iPhone.
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 21, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Kulminator, yes every visit has been great.
1985 Chimay
(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/th_beer031.jpg) (http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/UknowWho2u/beer031.jpg)



----------------------------------------------------------------------
phillamb:
Its not the camera its the user, he takes his time with getting the settings correct for the photo. I for the most part just use the presets with my 2006 Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi.

*******************************************************

I got info re:Café Gollem, Raamsteeg

"Sadly no, something about one of the owners involved in drug trafficking. They city even had the licenses permanently revoked. The one down on Overtoom is still open but its not the same."

Here is an article in Dutch http://bier.blog.nl/biernieuws/2011/01/27/amsterdam-sluit-twee-biercafes-gollem
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: phillamb168 on July 21, 2011, 01:08:31 PM

phillamb:
Its not the camera its the user, he takes his time with getting the settings correct for the photo. I for the most part just use the presets with my 2006 Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi.

Well I think I'm pretty good for a user. I used to be a photographer for the AP, but that was a long time ago, and camera tech has made leaps and bounds since then.

Are these micro 4/3 cameras good?
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: uthristy on July 21, 2011, 01:14:33 PM
I didn't mean to imply your a bad user but really most newer cameras all take very good photos if the user takes the time to get the correct settings/lighting.


Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: phillamb168 on July 21, 2011, 01:58:04 PM
I didn't mean to imply your a bad user but really most newer cameras all take very good photos if the user takes the time to get the correct settings/lighting.

Gotcha  :)
Title: Re: Westvleteren 12, where to get some....
Post by: tankdeer on July 21, 2011, 06:02:21 PM
Phil, I use a Nikon D90 with a Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3 & a Nikon 35mm f/1.8. Most of these shots were taken with the Tamron lens. But thirsty is correct, I've found that my shots have improved drastically once I simply started paying more attention to what I was doing - funny how that works.  :)

That really sucks about Gollem shutting down. Drug trafficing huh? Interesting. I also had no idea there were 2 other locations.

I'll just leave this here, a little De Dolle action at 't Bruge Beertje (Brugge Bear)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/4560048610_1fbd775b6f_z.jpg)

Also this, samples of lambic straight from the barrels poured by none other than Frank Boon
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4560045726_9218ab5f57_z.jpg)