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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: gmac on June 02, 2011, 03:14:30 PM

Title: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 02, 2011, 03:14:30 PM
I bought some rye malt and I'm going to add it to one of my regular brews, just to see what effect it has on the character of the beer.  I've read that it adds a spicy characteristic to the beer.  So, I'm curious if this works better with a particular style of hop?  I'm not sure about spicy with citrus (been using Cascade).  I'm thinking of a noble hop or perhaps a traditional English hop. 

I'm only planning on adding 1/2 lb this first time.  The only reference I've found is Denny's recipe that is about 19% rye. This would only be about 5%.  Would 10% be better to detect the character?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: Hokerer on June 02, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
I think you're on the right track with the hops.  I've found that a large presence of the citrusy hops tends to hide the rye character (and have gotten the same comment on multiple scoresheets).  IIRC, Denny's does use some CTZ but finishes with Mt Hood which I've always considered as a sort of "pseudo-noble" and lets the rye come through.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: denny on June 02, 2011, 03:37:24 PM
I don't think you'll even notice 5% rye.  My experience is that you need at least 15% to even tell it's there.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 02, 2011, 03:49:13 PM
I don't think you'll even notice 5% rye.  My experience is that you need at least 15% to even tell it's there.

OK, I'll take it up to 2 lbs and see what happens.  Never used it so I've gotta start somewhere.  I've been scared off a bit by Ray Daniels book which says it can be unpleasant if used at too high a percentage (which I'm probably no where near).  I just didn't want to over do it this first time. 

I'm going to scale back the pale row by 1 lb and add this extra 2 lb of rye.  Total fermentables are 12 lbs so that should be about 17%. 
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 02, 2011, 03:50:56 PM
I think you're on the right track with the hops.  I've found that a large presence of the citrusy hops tends to hide the rye character (and have gotten the same comment on multiple scoresheets).  IIRC, Denny's does use some CTZ but finishes with Mt Hood which I've always considered as a sort of "pseudo-noble" and lets the rye come through.
Thanks.  I'm gonna use Perle to bitter and then finish with Tettnanger and Hallertau.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: denny on June 02, 2011, 05:32:37 PM
I think you're on the right track with the hops.  I've found that a large presence of the citrusy hops tends to hide the rye character (and have gotten the same comment on multiple scoresheets).  IIRC, Denny's does use some CTZ but finishes with Mt Hood which I've always considered as a sort of "pseudo-noble" and lets the rye come through.

Yeah, but then it gets heavily dry hopped with Columbus so the Mt. Hood kinda blend in and become a background flavor/aroma.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: denny on June 02, 2011, 05:34:08 PM
I don't think you'll even notice 5% rye.  My experience is that you need at least 15% to even tell it's there.

OK, I'll take it up to 2 lbs and see what happens.  Never used it so I've gotta start somewhere.  I've been scared off a bit by Ray Daniels book which says it can be unpleasant if used at too high a percentage (which I'm probably no where near).  I just didn't want to over do it this first time. 

I'm going to scale back the pale row by 1 lb and add this extra 2 lb of rye.  Total fermentables are 12 lbs so that should be about 17%. 

FWIW, I've gone up to 45% in a rye APA and didn't find it at all unpleasant.  What rye malt are you using?  Although it may be heresy, I've found I prefer Briess rye malt to most continental rye malts I've tried.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: Pinski on June 02, 2011, 06:12:31 PM
I've got ten gallons of Denny's Rye IPA fermenting as we speak.  I was thinking of doing a couple variations of dry hopping for comparison. 1) Stay true to the recipe and dry hop in secondary;and 2) 1/2 CTZ and 1/2 Amarillo "in keg" method. 
I predict both will be delicious.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 02, 2011, 07:31:25 PM
What rye malt are you using?  Although it may be heresy, I've found I prefer Briess rye malt to most continental rye malts I've tried.

I don't really know.  I think my supplier buys in bulk and then re-bags.  It just says "Malted Rye".  I have the same complaint with all his products.  Crystal is just crystal, MO is just MO.  Unless you buy a 55 lb sack, there's no way to tell unless he replied to an email which is not guaranteed.  Not ideal but all I've been able to find so far.

Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: Hokerer on June 02, 2011, 07:52:18 PM
I think you're on the right track with the hops.  I've found that a large presence of the citrusy hops tends to hide the rye character (and have gotten the same comment on multiple scoresheets).  IIRC, Denny's does use some CTZ but finishes with Mt Hood which I've always considered as a sort of "pseudo-noble" and lets the rye come through.

Yeah, but then it gets heavily dry hopped with Columbus so the Mt. Hood kinda blend in and become a background flavor/aroma.

Oh yeah, forgot about the dry hops
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: dannyjed on June 02, 2011, 10:58:47 PM
IMO Rye Malt tastes fine with Citrusy hops.  I've used it with Amarillo, Centennial, Columbus, and Cascade and I think it tastes great with these.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: denny on June 02, 2011, 11:00:59 PM
IMO Rye Malt tastes fine with Citrusy hops.  I've used it with Amarillo, Centennial, Columbus, and Cascade and I think it tastes great with these.

Yep, I agree.  I haven't found any hops that I like that don't work with rye.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: ryang on June 03, 2011, 02:22:24 PM
IMO Rye Malt tastes fine with Citrusy hops.  I've used it with Amarillo, Centennial, Columbus, and Cascade and I think it tastes great with these.

Yep, I agree.  I haven't found any hops that I like that don't work with rye.

Same here.  Love rye.  Love hops.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: johnf on June 03, 2011, 02:30:29 PM
I do a 12 plato beer with 60% malted rye and a decent bit of late additions of citra and sorachi ace.

Very popular in casual drinking, does not work at competitions.

I'm skeptical that many people know what rye tastes like. If you give someone a dunkelweizen and tell them it is roggenbier, they usually won't call you on it.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 03, 2011, 04:15:02 PM
Thanks all. From what I can gather there's no problem with any type as long as you like the taste.  I guess I'll know in a few weeks what rye + noble hops taste like.  Then, there's always next time with American hops...

The recipe ended up being:
4 kg 2-row malt
1 kg rye malt
250 g C45
50 g C120
1/2 tsp Citric Acid to adjust mash pH (I have yet to notice any flavour from this)
Mash at 150 for 75 mins

1 oz Tettnanger (3.5% AA) FWH
25 g Perle@60 - after hot break
1 oz of Halltertau + 1 oz of Tettnanger mixed together with 10 g additions every 5 mins from 20 to flameout. 
Irish moss at 15
WLP001

Wish me luck.




Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: Hokerer on June 03, 2011, 04:18:44 PM
Wish me luck.

Good luck!  :)
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: denny on June 03, 2011, 04:18:58 PM
Looks good...good luck!
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: skyler on June 07, 2011, 10:41:00 PM
I had a Rye IPA in San Diego that blew my mind-hole. It was made with Nelson Sauvin hops (exclusively, I think). Called "Nelson" from Alpine Brewing Co..... Awesome beer.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 16, 2011, 09:12:13 PM
Just put it in the keg.  Beautiful copper colour and nice flavour.  Can't wait to try it carbonated.

In my enthusiasm, I forgot to take a FG.  Any reason I can't let a glass go flat and do it after?  It's on gas already.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: morticaixavier on June 16, 2011, 10:13:47 PM
don't see any reason that wouldn't work, just take it's temp so you know how to adjust
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: gmac on June 19, 2011, 12:20:40 AM
So, this is actually pretty darn good.  Beautiful gold/copper colour, nice flavour although I can't say for sure if I can detect the rye in it or if I just imagine the "spicy" notes.  The hops that I ended up using seem to mesh well with the overall profile of the beer.  I'm really liking this one.  It ended up close to 8% ABV so it's not exactly what I'd call a session beer which is OK but I think it could sneak up on you if you weren't careful.  I may try it with different hops next time I brew it but I will definitely brew it again.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Title: Re: What hops with rye?
Post by: emtee1972 on June 26, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
I am new to homebrewing so I don't have any specific advice........However, I just brewed my second batch with a kit which was Brewer's Best Rye Pale Ale. I thought I would include the link which tells the hops they included in the recipe.

http://www.brewersbestkits.com/recipes.html