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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: morticaixavier on June 06, 2011, 05:43:55 PM

Title: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: morticaixavier on June 06, 2011, 05:43:55 PM
I have 10 gallons of cali common I brewed yesterday, Pitched onto the yeast cakes from another 10 gallons of the same recipe. It is destined for a wedding on June 25th so here is my questions

WOuld it be better, assuming fermentation completes in a week or so, to leave it on the yeast for two weeks and then keg and carb and cold condition for 1 week or keg after 1 week and cold condition for 2 weeks. I will not rush the fermentation so if it takes two weeks to complete so it goes but I suspect with that much yeast it will not be suprising to see it 'done' after one week. it's only 1.051 OG and I mashed at 156 so I am expecting around 1.014 FG

which is better?

two week ferm 1 week cold condition

OR

one week ferm 2 week cold condition?
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: tomsawyer on June 06, 2011, 05:59:05 PM
I'd go the two week ferm, although ten days of each might work best.  What temp are you fermenting at?  Isn't cali common lager yeast so to be run around 60F?  I can't see that being done in a week.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: bluesman on June 06, 2011, 06:04:03 PM
Two weeks fermentation as it will allow the yeast to have a better chance of cleaning up the beer prior to racking. I'm more concerned with the flavor as opposed to the appearance.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: blatz on June 06, 2011, 06:19:08 PM
Two weeks fermentation as it will allow the yeast to have a better chance of cleaning up the beer prior to racking. I'm more concerned with the flavor as opposed to the appearance.

+1; but I'l throw in that I'd use gelatin to take care of the appearance if you're concerned.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: tomsawyer on June 06, 2011, 06:23:52 PM
I'll throw in that I'd use gelatin to take care of the appearance if you're concerned.

+1, I don't think that yeast drops real fast.  Does say high flocculation, but my bottled Cali Common is taking its sweet time clearing.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: bluesman on June 06, 2011, 06:32:11 PM
I use gelatin quite a bit especially for a case like this. Another vote for gelatin here.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: Hokerer on June 06, 2011, 06:59:59 PM
another vote for 2 weeks fermentation.  Even after reaching projected FG, the yeast will still appreciate the extra time to clean up after themselves.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: jeffy on June 06, 2011, 07:19:03 PM
another vote for 2 weeks fermentation.  Even after reaching projected FG, the yeast will still appreciate the extra time to clean up after themselves.
Me three on the 2 weeks and the gelatin.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: morticaixavier on June 06, 2011, 08:09:03 PM
okay, the overwhelming consensus seem to be to go with the longer ferm. That's kind of what I was thinking anyway. The guests will just have to deal with cloudy beer if it doesn't clear though cause I am a vegetarian and don't use geletin or isinglass. Thanks for the advise everyone!

oh and by the way I am fermenting at 55-60 or as close as I can manage with my ghetto temp control of a timer on my ferm fridge turing it on for 30 minutes out of every 2 or 3 hours. it was at 62 this morning when I left. If it hasn't dropped by the time I get home I will up the 'on' time and try to get it down.

I don't mind cloudy beer most of the time as I feel it makes it seem more 'homemade'
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: tom on June 06, 2011, 09:01:29 PM
you overpitched by quite a bit so that will speed up the fermentation.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: morticaixavier on June 06, 2011, 09:51:03 PM
you overpitched by quite a bit so that will speed up the fermentation.

Yeah, that was sort of intentional as I am not a somewhat short schedule.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: tschmidlin on June 06, 2011, 10:44:59 PM
The guests will just have to deal with cloudy beer if it doesn't clear though cause I am a vegetarian and don't use geletin or isinglass.
If you want clarity you can try this.
http://morebeer.com/view_product/11772//Biofine_Clear_Clarifier_-_1oz

I've never used it, if my beers are clear that's cool, if not no problem.  But it's vegan.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: tomsawyer on June 07, 2011, 01:42:31 PM
[If you want clarity you can try this.
http://morebeer.com/view_product/11772//Biofine_Clear_Clarifier_-_1oz

I've never used it, if my beers are clear that's cool, if not no problem.  But it's vegan.

Looks similar to the kieselsol component of SuperKleer.  I'm not too sure it'd be effective on yeast, I think its negatively charged and so is yeast.  If I were using only one component I'd use the chitosan which is positiviely charged.  You can buy them separate or just buy the premeasured packets of Superkleer, it works well and fast.  I haven't noticed it to strip a lot of flavor from wine or beer, though I've only used it on beer a time or two.

As for ferm temp, I actually think you want to run the Cali common lager yeast at 60-65F don't you?  I wouldn't go lower than 60F since you want it to go quickly anyway.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: Mark G on June 07, 2011, 02:19:29 PM
If you want to speed the fermentation up, you could start bumping up the temperature after a few days. Maybe raise it 1-2 degrees per day until you get into the mid-60s. That will help it finish quickly and clean up any fermentation by-products.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: morticaixavier on June 07, 2011, 02:30:38 PM
If you want to speed the fermentation up, you could start bumping up the temperature after a few days. Maybe raise it 1-2 degrees per day until you get into the mid-60s. That will help it finish quickly and clean up any fermentation by-products.

It's running right around 60-62 right now. maybe dips a little when the fridge is actually running. sometime in the middle of this week or next weekend I wll bump the temp up a couple of degrees as a sort of d-rest and to finish it up. The 5 gallons test batch that has been in a keg for two weeks now is plenty clear for me so I don't think I will worry about fining.

thanks all!
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: skyler on June 07, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
If it were me, I would absolutely give it two weeks of primary, then raise the temp to ambient for one day before dropping it to 30F. After 24 hours at 30F, I would hit it with gelatin and wait until 24 hours before the wedding to keg and carb it.

Generally, though, I wouldn't try to rush lagers. You still have time to replace this one with am American Wheat or something like that if you're looking for an easy drinker for non beer-types. 50% Wheat Malt, 50% 2-row, about 25 IBUs, just a pinch of any aroma hop you like at 10 min, mash at 150-152 for 60 min, shoot for 1.046-1.048, give it a healthy dose of US-05/WLP001/WY1056, ferment at 60F for a couple days, then raise to ambient once it has slowed down... drop it to 30F and keg it on the 23rd. Easy as pie.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: morticaixavier on June 07, 2011, 07:00:47 PM
If it were me, I would absolutely give it two weeks of primary, then raise the temp to ambient for one day before dropping it to 30F. After 24 hours at 30F, I would hit it with gelatin and wait until 24 hours before the wedding to keg and carb it.

Generally, though, I wouldn't try to rush lagers. You still have time to replace this one with am American Wheat or something like that if you're looking for an easy drinker for non beer-types. 50% Wheat Malt, 50% 2-row, about 25 IBUs, just a pinch of any aroma hop you like at 10 min, mash at 150-152 for 60 min, shoot for 1.046-1.048, give it a healthy dose of US-05/WLP001/WY1056, ferment at 60F for a couple days, then raise to ambient once it has slowed down... drop it to 30F and keg it on the 23rd. Easy as pie.

I would brew something else but this was the beer specifically requested by the bride and groom. but your schedule looks promising, sans geletin for dietary reasons.

So will keep it in primary until the 19th, give it one day around 70 then crash to as cold as the fridge will get for a day (that puts me at the 22nd) Keg and carb for two days. My plan is to put the two kegs I just finished on sunday on tap first then, once everyone has had a couple, tap these two. If I can get ahold of another keg before then I might also carb up a batch of homemade lemonade which is the soft option at the wedding.
Title: Re: Longer fermenation v longer aging
Post by: tomsawyer on June 08, 2011, 12:29:37 AM
I was wrong about the Cali Common yeast, it is supposed to work in the 55-60F range.  The one I fermented in the low 60's is kind of fruity.