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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Thirsty_Monk on June 08, 2011, 02:47:38 AM

Title: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on June 08, 2011, 02:47:38 AM
Like run your elements dry.

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252845_168159046579556_100001563866528_429159_134665_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: euge on June 08, 2011, 05:25:26 AM
I bet that stunk like the bejeezus! Did it with a heatstick. Freaky.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: thomasbarnes on June 08, 2011, 07:16:25 AM
And now you know . . .  :-\
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: phillamb168 on June 08, 2011, 08:55:46 AM
Ah jeez, that sucks. Thankfully every time I've come "close" to this, I got to the plug before anything happened. Way too easy to have happen though. I've been thinking about installing a pressure sensor linked to a switch for turning the elements off if there's no water in them.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: bluesman on June 08, 2011, 11:15:04 AM
Wow that sucks. Sorry to hear about that.  :(

Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: majorvices on June 08, 2011, 11:55:05 AM
Sucks. I would recommend the low density elements. I have let them run dry once or twice and they survived in tact. Also much easier to clean. I stopped using the elements like you have after losing two batches due to a smoky off flavor. Thought at first it was pedio, but turned out to be improperly cleaned elements and caked on, burnt crust.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: dak0415 on June 08, 2011, 12:55:04 PM
Oops.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: blatz on June 08, 2011, 01:21:27 PM
but turned out to be improperly cleaned elements and caked on, burnt crust.

apologies to TM for hijacking, but being that I am switching to electric soon, is there anything special to note about cleaning the elements?
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Kit B on June 08, 2011, 01:31:30 PM
apologies to TM for hijacking, but being that I am switching to electric soon, is there anything special to note about cleaning the elements?

Be sure to get the ultra-low watt density & you shouldn't have to worry about it.
If you experience mineral build-up, you may want to soak them with something to remove the deposits.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: majorvices on June 08, 2011, 01:34:53 PM
I soak mine in hot PBW over night and most of the stuff hoses right off. But I take a thin, rectangular "scrubby" pad and run it around the elements like dental floss. I occasionally acid wash them to remove mineral deposits.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: blatz on June 08, 2011, 01:41:11 PM
cool thanks guys.

sorry about your luck there TM.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on June 08, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
cool thanks guys.

sorry about your luck there TM.
No harm done.
I had spare elements so I am up and running.
Worst think was that I had to climb into the HLT to pick small copper nuggets.
I am thinking of installing a float switch that would prevent this.

Saniclean do the trick of cleaning the elements.
It is acid thou so do not soak it overnight.
It would eat your element.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 08, 2011, 04:12:02 PM
Quote
Stuff you should never do.

Try to catch a falling glass carboy full of sanitizer.  As they said in one of my favorite movies; "Run away!"
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: tschmidlin on June 08, 2011, 04:19:17 PM
Ah jeez, that sucks. Thankfully every time I've come "close" to this, I got to the plug before anything happened. Way too easy to have happen though. I've been thinking about installing a pressure sensor linked to a switch for turning the elements off if there's no water in them.
As mentioned by TM above, I think I'd go with a float switch over pressure sensor/switch.

Sorry about the elements TM, but this just goes to show why heating elements are bad, and we should only use one of these:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070117140729/bttf/images/thumb/5/56/Mrfusion.png/680px-Mrfusion.png)
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: denny on June 08, 2011, 04:50:32 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: andrew on June 08, 2011, 05:05:30 PM

Stuff you should never do....

Take a sleeping pill and a laxative at the same time!
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: a10t2 on June 08, 2011, 05:07:46 PM
Freaky. This just happened to me this morning. Except we don't have a spare. ::)
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: weithman5 on June 08, 2011, 05:12:08 PM
[ this just goes to show why heating elements are bad, and we should only use one of these:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070117140729/bttf/images/thumb/5/56/Mrfusion.png/680px-Mrfusion.png)

I used to use one of these but everytime I had a beer brewed with one my urine glowed.  :D
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: majorvices on June 08, 2011, 05:13:30 PM
Freaky. This just happened to me this morning. Except we don't have a spare. ::)

Any reason why you guys don't switch to the low density elements? They work much better and the melt down is so much less of a problem! not to mention cleaning is a heck of a lot easier as well.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: tschmidlin on June 08, 2011, 05:17:23 PM

Stuff you should never do....

Take a sleeping pill and a laxative at the same time!

Freaky. This just happened to me this morning. Except we don't have a spare. ::)
Read right after the post above it, this takes on a whole new meaning. ;D
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: jeffy on June 08, 2011, 05:22:31 PM

Stuff you should never do....

Take a sleeping pill and a laxative at the same time!

Freaky. This just happened to me this morning. Except we don't have a spare. ::)
Read right after the post above it, this takes on a whole new meaning. ;D

Yeah, I read that the first time and thought, "spare bed?"
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: andrew on June 08, 2011, 05:27:21 PM

Stuff you should never do....

Take a sleeping pill and a laxative at the same time!

Freaky. This just happened to me this morning. Except we don't have a spare. ::)
Read right after the post above it, this takes on a whole new meaning. ;D

Thought the same and a good chuckle.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: dak0415 on June 08, 2011, 05:51:14 PM
Ah jeez, that sucks. Thankfully every time I've come "close" to this, I got to the plug before anything happened. Way too easy to have happen though. I've been thinking about installing a pressure sensor linked to a switch for turning the elements off if there's no water in them.
As mentioned by TM above, I think I'd go with a float switch over pressure sensor/switch.

Sorry about the elements TM, but this just goes to show why heating elements are bad, and we should only use one of these:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070117140729/bttf/images/thumb/5/56/Mrfusion.png/680px-Mrfusion.png)
Ground water temp to strike temp in 22 seconds!
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: euge on June 08, 2011, 05:54:46 PM
Bisacodyl + farting= :o
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: punatic on June 08, 2011, 05:58:45 PM
Jeeze, you guys are still using Mr. Fusion?!  How quaint.

Three words:  zero point energy...
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on June 08, 2011, 06:40:58 PM
Freaky. This just happened to me this morning. Except we don't have a spare. ::)

Any reason why you guys don't switch to the low density elements? They work much better and the melt down is so much less of a problem! not to mention cleaning is a heck of a lot easier as well.
Well I started with medium density heating elements.
It was a cost decision on my part because I have 12 elements.
I am sure I will be replacing elements at some point and I will consider Low Density elements.

I think a10t2 has a commercial heating elements.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on June 08, 2011, 06:43:21 PM
Ah jeez, that sucks. Thankfully every time I've come "close" to this, I got to the plug before anything happened. Way too easy to have happen though. I've been thinking about installing a pressure sensor linked to a switch for turning the elements off if there's no water in them.
As mentioned by TM above, I think I'd go with a float switch over pressure sensor/switch.

Sorry about the elements TM, but this just goes to show why heating elements are bad, and we should only use one of these:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070117140729/bttf/images/thumb/5/56/Mrfusion.png/680px-Mrfusion.png)
Do you know the supplier?
Is it cost effective?
What do I do with spend rods?
You think I will pass it by city council?
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: ccarlson on June 08, 2011, 07:06:33 PM
Low watt density elements are a better way to go to prevent scorching, but they can still melt down without liquid around them.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: weithman5 on June 08, 2011, 07:16:09 PM
Jeeze, you guys are still using Mr. Fusion?!  How quaint.

Three words:  zero point energy...

I have been trying to get the stargate working again so i could go off world in search of a ZPM, maybe get some unique grains, hops from other planets....
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Hokerer on June 08, 2011, 07:21:00 PM
Jeeze, you guys are still using Mr. Fusion?!  How quaint.

Three words:  zero point energy...

I have been trying to get the stargate working again so i could go off world in search of a ZPM, maybe get some unique grains, hops from other planets....

and maybe fire up the kettle debate again...  aluminum, stainless, trinium
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: dano14041 on June 08, 2011, 07:29:48 PM
Jeeze, you guys are still using Mr. Fusion?!  How quaint.

Three words:  zero point energy...

I have been trying to get the stargate working again so i could go off world in search of a ZPM, maybe get some unique grains, hops from other planets....

The Lucian Alliance has a type of maize that could be interesting to use in brewing. It is guaranteed to keep the customers coming back.  ;D
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: majorvices on June 08, 2011, 07:33:53 PM
Low watt density elements are a better way to go to prevent scorching, but they can still melt down without liquid around them.

yeah. i never meant to imply that they wouldn;t. but I have accidentally let the liquid fall under them twice for a minute or two with no ill effects. IME you have a larger margin of error with the low density elements.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: dak0415 on June 08, 2011, 08:32:37 PM
I'm not sure what troubles me most, the stargate references or the fact that I understand them.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: a10t2 on June 08, 2011, 08:42:21 PM
Any reason why you guys don't switch to the low density elements? They work much better and the melt down is so much less of a problem! not to mention cleaning is a heck of a lot easier as well.

Short answer: I don't have the checkbook. The long answer involves corporate inertia, the difficulty and expense of getting someone up here to cut/weld on stainless, and the fact that my brewhouse is already going to be out of commission for 1-2 weeks immediately before our busiest weekend. We are getting this one Teflon coated, so hopefully that will help.

It wasn't even dry when it went, actually - just old and abused.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Slowbrew on June 08, 2011, 09:01:58 PM
Jeeze, you guys are still using Mr. Fusion?!  How quaint.

Three words:  zero point energy...

I have been trying to get the stargate working again so i could go off world in search of a ZPM, maybe get some unique grains, hops from other planets....

The Lucian Alliance has a type of maize that could be interesting to use in brewing. It is guaranteed to keep the customers coming back.  ;D

I always figured that in true "Stargate" form the team would find an automated facility that had been producing ZPMs for 1MM years and solve all their problems. 

Like going all-grain solved all our problems, right?

Paul
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: rabid_dingo on June 09, 2011, 02:13:46 AM
Ah jeez, that sucks. Thankfully every time I've come "close" to this, I got to the plug before anything happened. Way too easy to have happen though. I've been thinking about installing a pressure sensor linked to a switch for turning the elements off if there's no water in them.
As mentioned by TM above, I think I'd go with a float switch over pressure sensor/switch.

Sorry about the elements TM, but this just goes to show why heating elements are bad, and we should only use one of these:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070117140729/bttf/images/thumb/5/56/Mrfusion.png/680px-Mrfusion.png)
Do you know the supplier?
Is it cost effective?
What do I do with spend rods?
You think I will pass it by city council?

Spent rods? It's a Mr. FUSION probably just iron pellets... ;D

Bring back SG-U... 8)
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: tschmidlin on June 09, 2011, 04:19:44 AM
Do you know the supplier?
Is it cost effective?
What do I do with spend rods?
You think I will pass it by city council?
Fusion Industries (http://backtothefuture.wikia.com/wiki/Fusion_Industries)
Very cost effective, it runs on trash.
No spent rods, although you end up with iron which you can sell to China to fuel their growth.  Fusing things heavier than iron requires energy input, so that's no good.
It's an after-market addition, so it's better not to tell the city council. :)
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: phillamb168 on June 09, 2011, 08:17:22 AM
Any reason why you guys don't switch to the low density elements? They work much better and the melt down is so much less of a problem! not to mention cleaning is a heck of a lot easier as well.

Short answer: I don't have the checkbook. The long answer involves corporate inertia, the difficulty and expense of getting someone up here to cut/weld on stainless, and the fact that my brewhouse is already going to be out of commission for 1-2 weeks immediately before our busiest weekend. We are getting this one Teflon coated, so hopefully that will help.

It wasn't even dry when it went, actually - just old and abused.

I forgot that you worked at the Silverton brewery - heard the interview of you with James on BBR. Good stuff. Do they still have the narrow-gauge railroad? My dad took me and my brother on a trip through the west about a decade ago, I'd love to take my family out there and do it again. Amazing, amazing land around there.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on June 09, 2011, 02:28:30 PM
Any reason why you guys don't switch to the low density elements? They work much better and the melt down is so much less of a problem! not to mention cleaning is a heck of a lot easier as well.

Short answer: I don't have the checkbook. The long answer involves corporate inertia, the difficulty and expense of getting someone up here to cut/weld on stainless, and the fact that my brewhouse is already going to be out of commission for 1-2 weeks immediately before our busiest weekend. We are getting this one Teflon coated, so hopefully that will help.

It wasn't even dry when it went, actually - just old and abused.
You said Teflon coated.
Any concern when using caustic and lifting the Teflon off?
At least that was a claim for PBW and Teflon dishes.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 09, 2011, 03:13:58 PM
You said Teflon coated.
Any concern when using caustic and lifting the Teflon off?
At least that was a claim for PBW and Teflon dishes.
Good point.  We have a bunch of teflon encapsulated heaters at work but they are all 'over-the-side' types, so the 'open end' is never submerged.  Ours are used for strong nitric acid solutions.  They don't look like they are bonded to the element, at least not like a teflon-coated pan.  The teflon encapsulated elements look like semi-opaque, white teflon with an almost visible element inside.

For our strong caustic (NaOH) solutions, we just use screw-plug heaters with 304 SS plugs and incoloy elements (that combo covers most applications).

What is the advantage of teflon-encapsulated heaters wrt running the element dry?

Here's a couple of pics of our Electropolishing tank that had orthophosphoric acid in a polypropylene lined tank (actually, it's the melted liner and elements lifted out of the SS tank).  This is what happens when someone forgets to turn it off and the temp controller fails (on a weekend) and there is no over-temp protection.  The polypro liner melted and floated to the top...and just got 'qued.  Those were not teflon-encapsulated but the new ones are.

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n4/mtbucket_2006/underside1.jpg)

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n4/mtbucket_2006/mmmpizza.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: phillamb168 on June 09, 2011, 03:47:11 PM
Hey that looks like some of da weaz' BBQ!
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: oscarvan on June 09, 2011, 07:47:45 PM
Whoa, it's a LIFE FORM!

Forgot to put water in the camper water heater one spring after dewinterizing.....7 seconds was all it took to fry the element.
Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: punatic on June 10, 2011, 12:43:48 AM
Hey that looks like some of da weaz' BBQ!

 :D  That's a good one Phil!

Title: Re: Stuff you should never do.
Post by: weazletoe on June 10, 2011, 02:20:50 AM
Hey that looks like some of da weaz' BBQ!

LMAO!!