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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: tomsawyer on June 13, 2011, 03:43:53 PM

Title: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tomsawyer on June 13, 2011, 03:43:53 PM
I recently met a really serious brewer who said he will brew and evaluate a beer, and oftentimes just dump it if it doesn't live up to his expectations.  Given that several iterations might be necessary to develop that perfect recipe, I can see the utility of this.  I've never been scared to dump beer, especially since I make small batches.  I wondered how many of you do this routinely?  Its a waste in one sense, but as a hobby I don't think its much more expensive than any other and life's too short to drink mediocre beer.  As long as you don't run short of course, which never happens at my house.  I'd give it away but I don't know that many people who like homebrew, plus giving away beer that has one flaw or another (unless very slight) seems kind of wrong.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: ccarlson on June 13, 2011, 03:45:50 PM
I dump mine right down my throat. :D
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: denny on June 13, 2011, 03:46:13 PM
I don't dump if it simply doesn't meet my expectations, but I will dump without hesitation if I don't enjoy drinking the beer.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tschmidlin on June 13, 2011, 04:45:13 PM
I dump it if it's no good, and sometimes if it's old and I need the keg.  I have dumped batches that weren't up to snuff when I was brewing for a wedding or something like that.  I can't drink everything I brew, so it is often easier just to dump it than to figure something else out.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: euge on June 13, 2011, 04:55:14 PM
It's got to be really bad to dump it but have done so. And will do again. ;)
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: bluesman on June 13, 2011, 04:56:20 PM
I've dumped a few batches over the years that had soured over time. I think that as a seasoned brewer you will eventually come to a point of dumping a batch. Even the best breweries in the world have dumped batches and I think this pertains to homebrewers as well. The more batches you brew, the higher the likelyhood of dumping a batch or two....I think it's ultimately inevitable.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: a10t2 on June 13, 2011, 05:07:08 PM
In 59 batches I've only had one that was undrinkable (knock wood). And that was an Acetobacter contamination that eventually turned into some passable malt vinegar. So I've never actually "dumped" a batch. If it was just me drinking the beer I wouldn't be able to keep up with my brewing, but I have thirsty roommates and friends to help out. When it comes to recipe changes, I just make sure to take good tasting notes for the next time I brew it.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 13, 2011, 05:20:26 PM
Only dumped one entire batch but have dumped the last gallon or so of several.  If I'm sick of drinking it, need the space in the keezer, and never really liked it that much to begin with I'll dump the last bit.  If I like it OK I'll bottle that last bit.

I'm not giving away beer I don't like and if I don't enjoy drinking it then it's getting dumped.  It's not like I don't have 5 other kegs ready to drink plus several kegs on-deck plus bottles shoved in every open fridge space.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: gmac on June 13, 2011, 05:42:20 PM
Out of 15 all-grain batches so far, I've only considered dumping 1.  It's an Anchor Steam clone made with Munton Maris Otter that is really, really cloudy.  Almost to the point of being muddy looking.  It tastes fine but it's very unappealing.
I had a mild that looked similar and after gelatin and time, it is now my clearest beer so I'm going to try the same with this one and see if I can salvage it.  The rest of this malt is being saved for Stout season.

The important point is that I am more than willing to dump it if I have to.  I'm no expert but I know now that I can do much better and I need to feel happy about the beer that I drink and serve to family and friends.  Keeping it for private consumption would just extend the pain.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: jeffy on June 13, 2011, 07:15:36 PM
I've made over 300 batches of beer and/or mead and have tossed out about 10 gallons.  My motto is "never throw away a beer!" The one batch of five gallons I tossed was, like Sean's, acetobacter infected and wasn't salvageable. 
So, I'm either very tolerant when it comes to drinking my own homebrew or I've been very lucky or both.  I have plenty of space for storage and tend to rotate kegs in and out of service depending on what I feel like drinking.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: beersk on June 13, 2011, 08:28:00 PM
Out of 15 all-grain batches so far, I've only considered dumping 1.  It's an Anchor Steam clone made with Munton Maris Otter that is really, really cloudy.  Almost to the point of being muddy looking.  It tastes fine but it's very unappealing.
I had a mild that looked similar and after gelatin and time, it is now my clearest beer so I'm going to try the same with this one and see if I can salvage it.  The rest of this malt is being saved for Stout season.

The important point is that I am more than willing to dump it if I have to.  I'm no expert but I know now that I can do much better and I need to feel happy about the beer that I drink and serve to family and friends.  Keeping it for private consumption would just extend the pain.
I had a couple super cloudy beers made with Crisp maris otter.  I added some gelatin and within a week they are now very clear.  Makes me not want to throw the whole bag of MO away.
I was considering dumping them if they didn't clear, but not they're pretty good, which is a relief.

I haven't really dumped a beer before, but I'm getting to the point where I'm okay with it if I need to.

EDIT: now that I remember, I recently dumped a double IPA that got infected.  Tasted good when I bottled it, but I'm thinking it got infected from the bottling bucket.  Every bottle foamed over like crazy when opened and tasted off.  Sad...freed up a bunch of bombers though.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: majorvices on June 13, 2011, 10:28:13 PM
My general rule for dumping beer is: if I can't finish the first one or, if after I have finished the first one I really don't want a second one, then its a dumper. No sense keeping kegs around with beer in 'em that I'm never gonna drink.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: Will's Swill on June 13, 2011, 10:54:54 PM
I keep what would otherwise be dumpers and serve to the in-laws.  Or to other people where I want to see if they'll give me an honest opinion.

Sorry dear, just kidding about the in-laws.  ;)
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: weazletoe on June 13, 2011, 10:59:06 PM
Crap, if I dumped every batch that wasn't what I expected, I don't think I would have drank a homebrew yet!  ;D  I have dumped two batches, one was a lager that got infected. The other just plain sucked. (R.I.P. Santa's Helper. Sorry Denny.)
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tomsawyer on June 13, 2011, 11:11:59 PM
I keep what would otherwise be dumpers and serve to the in-laws.

Epic!

I'm going to dump some beer tonight, a keg of alt that I drank on for awhile.  It was so-so but I had some pale ale that needed to be put on tap.  I have an alt bottled anyway that was a better recipe.

Interesting responses, good to know there are so many with high standards.  Even the Weaz, amazing!  I do agree that you sometimes have to give a beer time to develop, especially lagers.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: dzlater on June 13, 2011, 11:14:02 PM
I haven't dumped any yet.
Although I do have one kegged now that is probably going down the drain, I just don't like it, its bad no good don't want it.
I can't see dumping a beer because it isn't perfect. Undrinkable or just plain old don't like it sure, but just because it might have been better with C40 instead of C60, or mashed at 150 instead of of 154, or add hops at 15 min instead of 30 min seems kind wasteful.
ThoughI hardly ever brew the same thing twice, so I never really get that deep into trying to perfect a recipe.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tubercle on June 13, 2011, 11:18:45 PM
Maybe 2 in 20+ years.

 One had about a pound of pine needles in it. :'(

 One other I screwed around with some pickling spices.

 Other than that I have never made a beer that didn't meet my expectations. It may have not ended up the way I intended but met my expectations never-the-less. To me beer is not bad or "off", just different.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: Will's Swill on June 13, 2011, 11:24:54 PM
I do agree that you sometimes have to give a beer time to develop, especially lagers.

That's always the tricky part for me.  Unless the beer is obviously stale, should I just let it sit a few months and see how it develops?  I'm often surprised at the improvement over time, but then I have to admit that I've never had a beer that I considered dumping at first turn out spectacular.  Good enough for the in-laws, certainly.  But not spectacular.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: The Professor on June 13, 2011, 11:50:08 PM
I guess I'm lucky...I never had a batch I had to totally dump.   
Knock wood.

There've certainly been a number that fell short of expectations or missed flavor targets,  and there were two that went sour for reasons still unknown...but none were so heinous that I couldn't blend them into new brews or use them as an ingredient in marinades.

Actually, one of the soured batches gave me a perfect addition to blend in very small amounts into batches of dry stout (after pasteurizing the soured stuff).
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: dannyjed on June 13, 2011, 11:54:08 PM
I haven't dumped any in nearly 100 batches, but I have made some that I didn't care for.  That's when I call up my friend Big John to come over and finish off the keg (He's not as picky as me and at 6'8'' he can empty a keg in no time).
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tygo on June 14, 2011, 12:03:31 AM
I have dumped.  It doesn't happen often but it has happened.  And it will likely happen again.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: scooter2374 on June 14, 2011, 01:37:35 AM
I haven't had to dump anything yet, but I'm only 15 or so batches into my homebrewing career.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: anthony on June 14, 2011, 04:34:22 AM
I'm no stranger to dumping beer. In several hundred batches, I can count the times on one hand where I have dumped because of a technical or process related flaw, but I probably can't begin to count the number of times I have dumped the remainder of a batch that didn't live up to expectations. For me, I like the process of brewing more than the process of drinking, so I never really feel too badly about dumping a batch that didn't do as well in competition as I hoped or wasn't as popular as I expected at a party. There are exceptions of course, I very rarely dump anything above 10% abv (preferring to drop the remainder of those beers into bottles for long term storage), I never dump mead and lagers are usually given a little bit more leniency... but when my fleet of 20 or so corny kegs are all full, you can be sure the first one to go is the least-winning, least-popular, least hedonistically enjoyable beer of the bunch.

A few years ago at NHC in Cincinnatti, a club was serving an Orange gueze that on its own was great, but once mixed with vanilla ice cream was just like a Dreamcicle. When I inquired with the brewer about how it was made, he told me that he took a keg of a nice gueze, added a can of OJ concentrate, mixed and served. He emphasized that the beer had to be consumed in the next 24 hours or so because the OJ ruined the beer after that. I remember thinking at the time, "Man, what a waste of a good gueze". But now looking back, I realize that may have been my favorite beer of the entire conference... so I guess my point is, everything is relative  ;)
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: dmtaylor on June 14, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
I think becoming a BJCP judge and beer conneiusseur has contributed to more self-criticism than I deserve.  That being said, I seem to have to dump a batch out of every 8 batches or so due to some sort of off-flavor.  Usually for me it's been a Lacto tartness, which I'm sure is from my laziness and eternal use of plastic buckets.  I'll leave a good batch sitting in a bucket for 4 or 5 months and then expect it to still taste good at bottling time.  Sometimes it's still good when I'm that lazy, sometimes it's not.  Seems to happen like clockwork, too.  After I've made 6 or 7 good batches, I know I'm coming due for a stinker within another batch or two, it happens with such consistent frequency.  I just had two bad batches recently so now I figure I'm good for a while.  What are my criteria?  If I don't enjoy drinking the beer at all in any way, it gets dumped before I even bottle it.  If I was dumb enough to bottle it and it sits on the shelf for like a year because no one will drink it, then every bottle gets dumped whether it's officially "drinkable" or not.  Those are the worst.  You go through all the trouble of bottling it, and it's drinkable, but then you don't ever feel like drinking it... that's just the worst.

Conversely, the signs of a spectacularly good batch are when the entire batch is gone in a month.  This has happened to me only about a dozen times in the past 12 years.  And those are the batches I'm shooting for every time.  I don't usually make mediocre recipes on purpose.  I'm always trying to make a world class beer, with every single batch.  It's just that I don't get that lucky 90% of the time!  But it doesn't stop me from trying.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tomsawyer on June 14, 2011, 12:15:47 PM
I'm no stranger to dumping beer.

Recognize who I was referring to in the initial post did ya?  I must confess that this second hand info, my wife heard you telling someone else about this practice and she related it to me.  It certainly makes sense for someone who really enjoys brewing and working on recipes for comps, that they might need to waste mediocre products on occasion.

I think becoming a BJCP judge and beer conneiusseur has contributed to more self-criticism than I deserve.  That being said, I seem to have to dump a batch out of every 8 batches or so due to some sort of off-flavor.  Usually for me it's been a Lacto tartness, which I'm sure is from my laziness and eternal use of plastic buckets.

Dave, do you reuse yeast for several generations?  I do think we accumulate more wild critters as we keep recycling yeast cakes.  I do it, but I'm aware of the need to get new yeast every so often.  I've also purchased the stuff to plate yeasts, I figure I can keep them clean myself this way.  Whether I'll ever do it. remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: dmtaylor on June 14, 2011, 03:46:36 PM
I have reused yeast cakes in the past, though not for the past couple of years so that's not my issue.  I think it's more of an issue that some of my buckets have a real slight permanent Lacto or other wild critter infection, and I've since purchased all new ones plus a glass carboy for anything that needs to be aged longer than ~6 weeks.  I just got the glass carboy last week and haven't used it yet.  So basically I've brewed ~85 batches using nothing but plastic buckets, and they don't last forever and seem to become permanently contaminated after some indeterminate amount of use.  The bugs hide out in tiny scratches and can't be killed.  That's the theory anyway.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tomsawyer on June 14, 2011, 04:04:18 PM
I know, and I see scratches in several of my buckets and that bothers me.  I kind of think you'd see a film over the beer eventually if there were infection though.  Do you think you can get enough growth to affect flavor, without there being the slightest hint of a pellicle even after a few months?
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: chumley on June 14, 2011, 04:05:53 PM
I've dumped quite a few infected batches.  I've got a whole bunch of old beer in bottles that I need to get ambitious to dump and rinse one of these days.

As far as giving substandard beer away.....once I brewed a pils with that nasty S-23 Saflager yeast, that had that terrible passion fruit flavor.  The keg sat in my basement for 6 months.  One of my buddies started pestering me to brew him a beer for his in-laws 50th anniversary party, so I gave him a keg of "peach lager".  They loved it!  Drained the whole keg. "How did you ever get that peach flavor in the beer?  Did you use real peaches?"  ;D
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: dmtaylor on June 14, 2011, 04:25:26 PM
I know, and I see scratches in several of my buckets and that bothers me.  I kind of think you'd see a film over the beer eventually if there were infection though.  Do you think you can get enough growth to affect flavor, without there being the slightest hint of a pellicle even after a few months?

Absolutely.  Your beer can have no pellicle or other floaties, and be clear as a bell, even smell great, but taste like a$$ and need to be dumped.  This has happened to me more times than I care to admit.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: bluesman on June 14, 2011, 04:29:12 PM
I know, and I see scratches in several of my buckets and that bothers me.  I kind of think you'd see a film over the beer eventually if there were infection though.  Do you think you can get enough growth to affect flavor, without there being the slightest hint of a pellicle even after a few months?

Absolutely.  Your beer can have no pellicle or other floaties, and be clear as a bell, even smell great, but taste like a$$ and need to be dumped.  This has happened to me more times than I care to admit.

I recently judged a coffee stout that had a wonderful aroma, and was clear through with my flashlight, beautiful ruby highlights.....but tasted like coffee vinagrette.  :o

Would've been wonderful on a Waldorf Salad.  ;)
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: cheba420 on June 14, 2011, 05:07:24 PM
In the 5 years I've been brewing, I've only dumped 2 batches and one partial. The first was a cider that went south. Turned to vinegar and I didnt know what to do with it, how to handle vinegar or anything....so it became drain cleaner. The second, was a batch of hard lemonade that I made earlier this year from our lemon crop. I may have dumped this one early but it was rowdy and I needed a keg for BEER. Sorry, lemonade...you have to go! The only beer I've ever dumped was an IPA that just had so much astringency, that I couldnt enjoy it. I drank about half of the keg and then just decided not to torture myself anymore. The beer was bad but the feeling I got over how I f*cked it up was worse!
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: Pinski on June 14, 2011, 06:33:14 PM
I've never dumped a batch but years ago I came really close.  I still have no idea what possessed me to think it was a good idea to brew with "Spruce Essense" but it was not a benevolent muse.  My Gin-o-phyle friend Gino loved it so I ended up keeping it around for him and after a couple months I could actually drink one.  It took on sort of a cola/Dr. Pepper kind of flavor.  Ended up being a good exercise in letting things ride.  Someday I may try the freshest of fresh spruce tips but never again will "spruce essense" disgrace my brewlog. 
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: Joe Sr. on June 14, 2011, 06:55:46 PM
Spruce beer was the first batch I dumped, and one of the first I brewed.  I stuck with it though and have dumped only two other batches that I can recall.

I've found that even if I don't care for them, generally someone does.  I have a few bottles left of batches that weren't favorites, but I have plenty of room to store bottles.

When I need a keg, I'd rather bottle than dump.  Or buy more kegs.

I haven't been there lately, but in the past when I've found myself with only the least appealing beers left it has been motivation to brew more.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tomsawyer on June 15, 2011, 01:29:00 PM
When I started the thread I was mostly thinking of the specific circumstance of developing a recipe and dumping anything that didn't measure up.  But I am appreciative of the testimonials, and I sense this has been cathartic for a lot of you mugs!

I dumped some beer last night, an alt that didn't quite measure up and got displaced.  As it was coming out the picnic tap I took a little taste.  Hmm, not too bad.  Got a small glass, tasted and hmm not too bad.  It didn't stop me from running it out though.  Theres more where that came from, and better.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: ibru on June 15, 2011, 02:22:41 PM
Have I dumped beer? Yes. Probably 2 or 3 in about 20 years. I won't save a funky tasting beer

Would I dump because it didn't meet expectations and/or a beer style? Heavens no. If it is drinkable (no major flaws) I'll save it or try to make it a little better. Maybe I've got a so-so batch of stout and a so-so pale ale, but by mixing it makes both a little better. Maybe just  dry hopping with improve the beer. I'm not a big fruit beer fan, but maybe adding some cherry or apricot flavoring to it will do the trick.

That said, I have some (really) sweet mead that's been in the bottle for over 10 years. Don't want to throw it. Wonder what would happen if I put a few bottles in at the end of a boil of a lager? Hmm.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: denny on June 15, 2011, 02:31:06 PM
My general rule for dumping beer is: if I can't finish the first one or, if after I have finished the first one I really don't want a second one, then its a dumper. No sense keeping kegs around with beer in 'em that I'm never gonna drink.

My feeling exactly, Keith.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: ccarlson on June 15, 2011, 04:06:42 PM
I don't dump them until I absolutely need the keg. I've had too many get better with time.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: denny on June 15, 2011, 04:32:07 PM
I don't dump them until I absolutely need the keg. I've had too many get better with time.

I've kept beers for years waiting for them to get better.  Never happened....
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: ccarlson on June 15, 2011, 05:09:07 PM
I don't dump them until I absolutely need the keg. I've had too many get better with time.

I've kept beers for years waiting for them to get better.  Never happened....

I'm not 100%, but I have definitely had some get better. In fact, I've had some that I hated turn into great beers.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: Slowbrew on June 15, 2011, 07:39:56 PM
I've dumped 4, maybe 5, over the years.  Usually due to infections. 

I may keep a beer that I don't serve to anyone else and just drink it myself. I don't think I should waste the ingredients or torture my friends.  I do start to worry when I've developed a taste for a bad beer and start thinking about making it again.  8^(

Paul
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: tomsawyer on June 15, 2011, 11:30:18 PM
I've dumped 4, maybe 5, over the years.  Usually due to infections. 

I may keep a beer that I don't serve to anyone else and just drink it myself. I don't think I should waste the ingredients or torture my friends.  I do start to worry when I've developed a taste for a bad beer and start thinking about making it again.  8^(

Paul

I will admit that I've had a few beers that grew on me as I went through the keg.  Don't know if they were getting better or I was learning to appreciate them.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: kgs on June 16, 2011, 03:48:05 AM
I used a cross-country move to dump my failures from my first year as a homebrewer. The good stuff was consumed. The failures included most of my efforts during a period when I was attempting Belgian pale ales, plus an IPA flavored with fenugreek that was undrinkable by any standard. (Note to self: no spruce, either.)  I will try Belgians again--I am not sure what the problem was, but it was good to focus elsewhere and produce a few drinkable beers.

I consider it a sign of my development as a homebrewer that the only beer I've considered dumping in the last year and a half was a 6-pack experiment where I threw in far too many hops (but I drank it anyway...though I didn't share it!). I've brewed beer that wasn't really all that good, but from a "waste not, want not" point of view, it was good enough to be choked down. :-) 
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: brewmasternpb on June 17, 2011, 03:50:17 AM
I've had some wicked Chlorolphenol problems, those were dumpers, tasted like paint.  Then I bought a filter and filtered out the chlorine!
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: corkybstewart on June 17, 2011, 11:51:54 AM
I dumped a couple last month that I brewed for a friend to distill, one was horribly hoppy on purpose, the other had very little hops.  he never got around to distilling them(for a good reason) and I needed the kegs.
Years ago I struggled to drink the first keg of a 10 gallon batch of pale ale that was awful.  After finishing a gallon I turned the rest into malt vinegar which turned out great.  A year later I found the second keg in the beer fridge.  I was about to dump it but I tasted it and it had really turned out magnificent.The flavor I didn't like the year before was still there but very mellow.
If I brew a batch that is subpar I force myself to drink it as punishment.  nothing like a little self flagellation to learn from my mistakes.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: phillamb168 on June 17, 2011, 01:09:05 PM
CAP brewed at ale temperature. Did a double batch. Such, SUCH a shame, this would have been a fantastic couple kegs if I had just not been as lazy. Learned my lesson for sure on that one.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: euge on June 17, 2011, 05:35:41 PM
The Kolsch I brewed recently still had an awful acetaldehyde flavor after 5 weeks in the fermenter and 2 in kegerator. Almost dumped it, but in a fit of pique dry hopped the keg with 1 oz of Zeus. Boy was that a mistake. At first. Now after a couple weeks the kolsch has transformed into something wondrous. :o

Glad I didn't dump her, but my Kolsch probably isn't to style anymore... :-\
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: phillamb168 on June 20, 2011, 08:40:56 AM
The Kolsch I brewed recently still had an awful acetaldehyde flavor after 5 weeks in the fermenter and 2 in kegerator. Almost dumped it, but in a fit of pique dry hopped the keg with 1 oz of Zeus. Boy was that a mistake. At first. Now after a couple weeks the kolsch has transformed into something wondrous. :o

Glad I didn't dump her, but my Kolsch probably isn't to style anymore... :-\


Had the same thing happen to me, Kolschs seem to be hard to get right. Taste was just, eh. Weird beer. Anyway I attached that fella to my hoprocket with 3.5 ounces of Citra. Definitely, definitely not to style now. Hoprocket = instant IPA-afier.
Title: Re: Who Dumps Beer?
Post by: gordonstrong on June 20, 2011, 08:40:55 PM
I know I touch on this in my book, probably in the discussion on blending.  Some beers can be saved, some beers are past hope.  Some just need to be approached in a new light.  Depends on how you want to use them.

Over the years, I've had two beers that were stored for more than 5 years eventually develop a aceto infection, probably as a result of a lazy transfer or filtration.  One was a doppelbock, and the other was a biere de garde.  That doppelbock took a first round medal as a Flanders brown last year in the NHC.  The BDG could probably as well if I entered it this year.

I remember dumping maybe two early batches that were horribly oxidized (wet cardboard) and one that was increibly phenolic (cold steeped spices in the secondary).  I don't use those techniques any more  ;)