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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: brewdog86 on June 15, 2011, 11:33:31 AM

Title: Wheat based porter
Post by: brewdog86 on June 15, 2011, 11:33:31 AM
im thinking about making a wheat based porter somthing that would be summery but enjoyable around a bon fire, cause i know during summer i dont want to be drinking the same summer wheat beer i drank all day , at night i want something heavyier and filling that i can chill to. any ideas comments ? cant really decided what yeast to use, kinda wanted to do wheat with a heffewiezen yeast but have porter specialty malts and hops.... i want honest opinons people! THANKS!
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: jaybeerman on June 15, 2011, 11:38:14 AM
do it.  dunkelweizen is fantastic so why wouldn't a wheat porter be good.  you might have a hard time pairing hops with the wheat yeast, but the roast should work.  cheers, j
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: thomasbarnes on June 15, 2011, 12:43:21 PM
I've always wondered why wheat-based dark ales have never caught on as a style. They sound tasty.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: EHall on June 15, 2011, 01:45:04 PM
Take your porter recipe if you have one or any standard porter recipe and subsitute half the base malt with wheat... and go from there...I wouldn't however, recommend a hefe yeast.. just stick with the 'english' yeasts or american yeasts.. WLP004, WLP001 etc...
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: brewdog86 on June 15, 2011, 08:07:57 PM
i dont have a specific recipe yet was kinda just gonna plug in some things to my brew calculator and get the specs right to be considered a porter, any suggestions on fermentation time ??
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: morticaixavier on June 15, 2011, 08:21:45 PM
i dont have a specific recipe yet was kinda just gonna plug in some things to my brew calculator and get the specs right to be considered a porter, any suggestions on fermentation time ??

till it's done!
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: EHall on June 15, 2011, 08:40:13 PM
Couple of ideas, just sub out half the pale malt with wheat.

Porter1

12-B  Porter, Robust Porter

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.00    Wort Size (Gal):    5.00
Total Grain (Lbs):        9.75
Anticipated OG:          1.053    Plato:             13.19
Anticipated SRM:          30.6
Anticipated IBU:          46.4
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             60    Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 76.9     7.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)              Great Britain  1.038      3
 10.3     1.00 lbs. Crystal 80L                                  1.033     80
  5.1     0.50 lbs. Chocolate Malt                America        1.029    350
  5.1     0.50 lbs. Flaked Oats                   America        1.033      2
  2.6     0.25 lbs. Black Patent Malt             America        1.028    525

Hops
   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.50 oz.    Chinook                           Pellet  13.00  31.5  60 min.
  0.50 oz.    Willamette                        Pellet   5.00  10.9  45 min.
  1.00 oz.    Willamette                        Pellet   5.00   4.0  5 min.

Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP002 English Ale

Mash Schedule
-------------
Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs:    9.75
Water Qts:   11.70 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal:    2.92 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.20 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 154  Time:  60
Mash-out Rest Temp :           0  Time:   0
Sparge Temp :                175  Time:  10

Total Mash Volume Gal: 3.70 - Dough-In Infusion Only
===================================================

Porter2

12-B  Porter, Robust Porter

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.00    Wort Size (Gal):    5.00
Total Grain (Lbs):       10.88
Anticipated OG:          1.059    Plato:             14.55
Anticipated SRM:          39.2
Anticipated IBU:          47.7
Brewhouse Efficiency:       75 %
Wort Boil Time:             60    Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 69.0     7.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)              Great Britain  1.038      3
  9.2     1.00 lbs. Chocolate Malt                America        1.029    350
  9.2     1.00 lbs. Munich Malt                   Germany        1.037      8
  4.6     0.50 lbs. Crystal 80L                                  1.033     80
  4.6     0.50 lbs. Flaked Barley                 America        1.032      2
  2.3     0.25 lbs. Carafa                        Germany        1.030    400
  1.1     0.13 lbs. Black Patent Malt             America        1.028    525

Hops
   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.50 oz.    Nugget                            Whole   13.00  27.8  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Fuggle                            Whole    5.00  16.3  40 min.
  1.00 oz.    Fuggle                            Whole    5.00   3.6  5 min.

Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP002 English Ale

Mash Schedule
-------------
Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs:   10.88
Water Qts:   14.68 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal:    3.67 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.35 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 152  Time:  60
Mash-out Rest Temp :           0  Time:   0
Sparge Temp :                170  Time:  10

Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.54 - Dough-In Infusion Only
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: tomsawyer on June 16, 2011, 06:31:05 AM
Since BJCP specifies that a porter can contain a moderate amount of adjuncts, I don't know that wheat would constitute a break from style.  That said, I don't know that subbing wheat for barley base malt is going to automatically make a summery beer.  The flavors are still coming from specialty grains.  I'd suggest that a simple porter done on the low end of OG and that finishes moderately dry, might be about as summery as the style is going to get.  I'd maybe make it just a tad darker than a brown ale, and formulate it to be slightly sweet and mild in terms of the dark malts.  Maybe a toffee to coffee range of flavor profile.  With minimal hopping of 15IBU.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: violaleebrews on June 19, 2011, 12:09:23 PM
+1 on tomsawyer's reply and Ehall's regarding the yeast, unless that has the flavor you want.  i also would worry about nailing a certain style.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: uisgue on June 19, 2011, 06:27:28 PM
Here's one I did for my step-son's "wedding".  It was the crowd favorite.
 
Uncle Dweizen's Wheat Porter

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report
BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

12-B  Porter, Robust Porter

Min OG:  1.048   Max OG:  1.065
Min IBU:    25   Max IBU:    60
Min Clr:    22   Max Clr:    42  Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):        10.50    Wort Size (Gal):   10.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       27.99
Anticipated OG:          1.068    Plato:             16.63
Anticipated SRM:          24.6
Anticipated IBU:          27.8
Brewhouse Efficiency:       71 %
Wort Boil Time:             60    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:       1.00    Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:   11.50    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.062    SG          15.26  Plato

Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 32.2     9.00 lbs. Wheat Malt                    America        38.00      2
 53.6    15.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)              America        36.00      2
  4.8     1.33 lbs. Crystal 60L                   America        34.00     60
  2.4     0.66 lbs. Crystal 40L                   America        34.00     40
  7.1     2.00 lbs. Chocolate Malt                America        29.00    350

Potential represented as Points per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1.00 oz.    Centennial low-alpha              Pellet   6.00   8.2  30 min.
  1.00 oz.    Nerwport                          Pellet  11.10  19.7  60 min.


Yeast
-----

Danstar  Munich


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: single infusion

Total Grain Lbs:   27.99
Total Water Qts:   36.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    9.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.00
Grain Temp:        55.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacch rest             2     60    150     150   Infuse   164       36.00   1.29
bump                   5     30    157     157   Infuse   193        8.09   1.57


Total Water Qts:           44.09 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:           11.02 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:     13.26 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.




Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: brewdog86 on June 19, 2011, 08:11:02 PM
not really worried about fitting into a certain style or breaking style i just want a nice dark beer i can drink on a 70 degree night with out feeling like it should be snowing out. thank you guys the ideas are great im gonna order suppplies soon
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: tubercle on June 19, 2011, 08:35:05 PM
...not really worried about fitting into a certain style or breaking style.....
.

 Thank you. I thought I was the only one.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: thomasbarnes on June 19, 2011, 10:32:57 PM
Since BJCP specifies that a porter can contain a moderate amount of adjuncts, I don't know that wheat would constitute a break from style.

I think that the idea with specifying that adjuncts are acceptable in porter is to allow typical British brewing adjuncts, like brewing sugars/syrups, small amounts of torrefied/flaked adjunct grains, and whatnot. At the extreme end, it might allow for modern interpretations of Pre-Prohibition U.S. porters (e.g., Yeungling Porter), colonial porters (e.g., things like Poor Richard's Ale clones) and historical 18th and 19th century "mild porters" to be squeezed into the brown porter and robust porter categories.

But, using large percentages of wheat malt for your grist is going to alter the porter profile in a way which many judges will struggle to understand. If you were to enter a wheat-based dark ale into competition, I think you'd have better luck entering in the Specialty category (23A) and possibly defining the base style as brown porter (12A) or robust porter (12B).
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: jaybeerman on June 20, 2011, 11:28:04 AM
Thank you. I thought I was the only one.

it's an ever growing faction!

I If you were to enter a wheat-based dark ale into competition, I think you'd have better luck entering in the Specialty category (23A) and possibly defining the base style as brown porter (12A) or robust porter (12B).

I agree.

Seperately - I wanted to throw out the idea of tweaking your wheat recipe (no matter which yeast you decide upon) rather than tweaking your porter recipe;  mostly to say that there are mulitiple ways to approach the hybrid beer idea.  cheers, j
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: brewdog86 on June 20, 2011, 07:14:00 PM
i dont really plan on entering it in to any compititions unless i get crazy awsome reviews from friends. soo far i just threw some ideas in to my brew calculator and this is what i came up with, didnt really follow a recipe this is just some whacked out recipe i made

3lbs wheat dme
3lbs golden dme
3lbs smoked malt (briess)
.5 lb black malt
.5 lb chocolate malt
.5 lb special roast

35 degree L
1.064 OG - 1.018 FG - 6.0% ABV

1oz Challenger hops 60 min 8% AA

1oz tettnanger 20min 4% AA

.5oz hallertauer 5 min 5% AA
.5foz fuggles 5 min5%  AA

35 IBU

american hefeweizen white labs yeast

 what do you think? PATENT PENDING :)
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: EHall on June 20, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
as long as that is the cherry smoked malt, I'd say go for it.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: tschmidlin on June 20, 2011, 10:46:52 PM
Actually I was going to say the opposite.  I've found for my palette that beers made with the cherry smoked malt are overly phenolic when you get above 20-25% of the grist.  I think I would cut it back to 2 lbs or less.

I probably wouldn't go with that yeast either, I would go for a yeast I would actually use in a porter like WY1056 or one of the English strains like WY1098.

But that's me.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: EHall on June 21, 2011, 09:50:29 AM
Its all relative to your personal taste... I made a smoked amber with that cherry smoked malt, 33% of the grain bill. It was nice an smokey, not overwhelming at all... again it all goes back to your personal tastes... if you're not a huge smoked beer fan, I'd say go with 10-20% of your grain bill the first time so you get a feel for it. I used the remainder of the malt in a porter, something around 7% and it was slightly noticable so its not strong stuff at all.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: Hokerer on June 21, 2011, 09:53:18 AM
Peat-smoked, baby!   ;D
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: tschmidlin on June 21, 2011, 10:00:21 AM
Its all relative to your personal taste... I made a smoked amber with that cherry smoked malt, 33% of the grain bill. It was nice an smokey, not overwhelming at all... again it all goes back to your personal tastes... if you're not a huge smoked beer fan, I'd say go with 10-20% of your grain bill the first time so you get a feel for it. I used the remainder of the malt in a porter, something around 7% and it was slightly noticable so its not strong stuff at all.
I love smoked beers and make 100% weyermann rauchmalt beers regularly.  The Briess just isn't as smooth to me.  Yes, personal taste, but it's not that I don't like smoke.  Maybe I am just phenol sensitive, which would also explain my rabid hatred of peated malt in beers ;).

Peat-smoked, baby!   ;D
I use peat smoked malt in every one of my beers, 0% of the grist. ;D
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: tumarkin on June 21, 2011, 12:48:37 PM
I use peat smoked malt in every one of my beers, 0% of the grist. ;D

Tom, you're being way too conservative there. I'll bet if you doubled the amount you're using, you'd still find it acceptable
  8)
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: tschmidlin on June 21, 2011, 01:55:28 PM
I use peat smoked malt in every one of my beers, 0% of the grist. ;D

Tom, you're being way too conservative there. I'll bet if you doubled the amount you're using, you'd still find it acceptable
  8)
I'll double or maybe even triple it in my next batch. ;)
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: gordonstrong on June 21, 2011, 03:43:42 PM
I use peat smoked malt in every one of my beers, 0% of the grist. ;D

Tom, you're being way too conservative there. I'll bet if you doubled the amount you're using, you'd still find it acceptable
  8)
I'll double or maybe even triple it in my next batch. ;)

I wouldn't risk it. You're courting trouble just saying its name.
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: brewdog86 on June 24, 2011, 04:09:32 PM
i decided to go with white labs east coast ale yeast because on there sheet it said it was good for both porters and american wheat beers
Title: Re: Wheat based porter
Post by: oscarvan on June 25, 2011, 05:23:37 AM
Thank you. I thought I was the only one.

it's an ever growing faction!

See my sig line.....

FWIW there's 2% wheat in my American Brown Ale......I can see doubling that to tart it up a bit.