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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: blatz on June 22, 2011, 04:01:33 pm

Title: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: blatz on June 22, 2011, 04:01:33 pm
About to brew my Oktoberfest in a few weeks and man, I am starting to get cold feet on the recipe.

Was looking to try what a member on another forum (bryanh), whom I highly respect, calls his favorite recipe for oktoberfest/maerzen style after trying many combinations.  The rundown is this:

12gal/1.054/20ibu

17.5lbs Weyermann Munich II 12L
7.5lbs Best Pils 1.8L
20ibus of Tradition at 60min

Mash for 90 min at 151-2.

Yes, I am doing single infusion - its too damned hot right now to be decocting.

I'm having second thoughts  :-[

Guess at worst it'll be a dunkel-lite  ;D :D
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: denny on June 22, 2011, 04:06:39 pm
Second thoughts in regard to what, Paul?
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: blatz on June 22, 2011, 04:08:06 pm
Second thoughts in regard to what, Paul?

the huge allocation to Weyermann Munich II
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: denny on June 22, 2011, 04:26:24 pm
Second thoughts in regard to what, Paul?

the huge allocation to Weyermann Munich II

In terms of conversion or flavor?  If you're worried about conversion, I'd just do a 90 min. mash.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: blatz on June 22, 2011, 04:32:16 pm
Second thoughts in regard to what, Paul?

the huge allocation to Weyermann Munich II

In terms of conversion or flavor?  If you're worried about conversion, I'd just do a 90 min. mash.

more on flavor - I've made a bock with this much M-II before and incorporated a 90min mash with no issues.

I guess there is only one way to find out about flavor...
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on June 22, 2011, 05:16:01 pm
It doesn't seem out of line to me for a true O-fest (as opposed to a 'tent beer').  Weyermann Munich II is usually closer to 9L than 12L.  I typ use Global dark Munich which is ~12L but only because Midwest doesn't carry Weyermann Type II.  I use mostly Weyermann Type I plus some Global dark Munich in my Maerzen.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: richardt on June 22, 2011, 05:16:34 pm
I'm curious.  What specifically about "flavor" are you concerned about?

I agree it is too hot to decoct outdoors here in Florida this time of year.  Plus I'm too lazy to do it (for questionable benefit).
I usually "pseudo-decoct" by add a small percentage of "aromatic" or "melanoiden" malt along with any other specialty base malts (pale, victory, biscuit, vienna) I have on hand to give it a little more malt complexity w/o pushing it out of style.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: blatz on June 22, 2011, 05:47:46 pm
i usually pseudo decoct as well, although lately I've been getting away from it and have been just as pleased with the results.  I question decoction benefits as well, but haven't decided for good yet.

The flavor issue I am concerned about is that in the bock that I used 50% WMII in has a dark fruit thing going on from the malt - its not a yeast issue - its something I call 'munich-fruity'  - I get it very faintly from Ayinger Dunkel - its a good thing, but I don't want it to be overbearing in an oktoberfest. 

My fest last year was 65% Vienna, 15% Pils, 15% Munich I and 10% munich II (with a pinch of melanoidin) and it was kinda 'meh' - not rich and malty, sort of dry and a bit too hoppy.  It was consumed, but not with the same vigor that makes you shocked when the keg runs dry. Part of the blame goes to the Vienna maltster I think - NCM was out of Best, so the sent me Baird's Vienna instead - I wound up selling the 1.5 sacks I had leftover.

 So this year, I am going toward the other side of the fence to see what happens.  I can't imagine it will be undrinkable.

Spanishcastleale - you're right - I guess I had a brain fart when I typed that - I know its more like 9L - duh!  :-[

Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: Kirk on June 22, 2011, 09:58:56 pm
Paul, let me share my ignorance, if you don't mind.
The Munich I have access to, at my LHBS, is American I think, and I don't know who makes it, but I believe it's about 10L.
Anyway, I'm leary of too much Munich.  But, you're doing a lager, which is all they do in Munich, right?  My beef with Munich is in ales, as it gets too "doughy" or something.  I much prefer Vienna.  The Vienna I have access to is light, so I assume it's about 3.5L, but I love how it increases mouthfeel and bread tones, but in a more refined way.  The jury is still out in my mind regarding Munich in lagers, but it will be a long time before I attempt another 50% or greater Munich anything.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 22, 2011, 10:14:34 pm
Paul, that looks a little like a bock recipe.

Your last fest beer is more to style, if you are into the whole style thing.

Can't put my hands on Jamil's book right now.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: denny on June 22, 2011, 10:38:59 pm
Paul, let me share my ignorance, if you don't mind.
The Munich I have access to, at my LHBS, is American I think, and I don't know who makes it, but I believe it's about 10L.
Anyway, I'm leary of too much Munich.  But, you're doing a lager, which is all they do in Munich, right?  My beef with Munich is in ales, as it gets too "doughy" or something.  I much prefer Vienna.  The Vienna I have access to is light, so I assume it's about 3.5L, but I love how it increases mouthfeel and bread tones, but in a more refined way.  The jury is still out in my mind regarding Munich in lagers, but it will be a long time before I attempt another 50% or greater Munich anything.

I make a lot of all Munich pale ales and IPAs.  The key is to get enough hops in there to balance the Munich.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: zorch on June 22, 2011, 10:53:38 pm
The key is to get enough hops in there to balance the Munich.

This makes sense to me.  20 IBUs seems a little low for an O-fest with a large percentage of Munich. I'd probably bump your target IBUs to around 24 or so.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: denny on June 22, 2011, 10:56:25 pm
The key is to get enough hops in there to balance the Munich.

This makes sense to me.  20 IBUs seems a little low for an O-fest with a large percentage of Munich. I'd probably bump your target IBUs to around 24 or so.


I was talking more about IPAs and APAs made with Munich, but you've got a good point.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: Hokerer on June 23, 2011, 01:15:26 am
The Munich I have access to, at my LHBS, is American I think, and I don't know who makes it, but I believe it's about 10L.

Seems I've heard of a lot of American Munich being made using 6-row instead of 2-row (or maybe I'm completely imagining things).  Wouldn't that have some of that effect also?
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: blatz on June 23, 2011, 01:43:12 am
The key is to get enough hops in there to balance the Munich.

This makes sense to me.  20 IBUs seems a little low for an O-fest with a large percentage of Munich. I'd probably bump your target IBUs to around 24 or so.


funny - I'd written the recipe out this morning off memory, but in checking Beersmith, I see the actual IBUs are...24  :o

as for the Munich re: Kirk 's comments- as was said - maltster and origin is everything -  I would be skeptical of using some domestic Munich malts, but the beers I've  made with Best, Weyermann, Dingeman's are out of this world.  In fact, the Bock I'm drinking now as described above is excellent - and I've made some wonderful dunkels with just straight munich.

Munich in ales can be a little tricky - a little can go a long way, though I have made an all munich IPA before - and like Denny said, crammed a LOT of hops into it - it was nice.

Paul, that looks a little like a bock recipe.

It does, doesn't it?  SRMs are 11ish - so color wise not really, but it just sort of says "half-bock" looking at it, no?
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: Kirk on June 23, 2011, 03:56:04 am
Thanks.  I learned a lot.  I'll check into it further.  Do you get your malts from your local shop, or direct?
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: blatz on June 26, 2011, 04:19:44 pm
Do you get your malts from your local shop, or direct?

Both - I get mostly from my local shop but also from North Country Malt, Rebel Brewer and Northern Brewer.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: lupulin5446 on June 26, 2011, 05:28:51 pm
An easy festbier recipe:
50% pilsner malt, 5% Weyerman caramunich III, 5% Weyerman carared, 35% light munich malt, 3% acid malt, 2% Weyerman cara-aroma (added at mash out to reduce 'roasted' flavors).  First-wort hop with 22 IBUs from noble hops-preferably Tettnang or Hallertau varieties.  Single infusion mash at 152, boil 90 minutes, O.G. 1.054

pH is very important for this style of beer, both in the mash, and sparge water.  You will want a residual alkalinity as close to 0 as possible, and this can be easily achieved with gypsum and calcium chloride.  The high enzyme content from the pils malt will reduce the mash time.  This combined with the lower pH in the mash will leech fewer tannins from the barley hulls.  Cara-aroma contains no enzyme, so adding it at mash out will extract color and aroma while minimizing roasted notes that would be out of character.  First-wort hopping will enhance the 'noble hop' character. 

Decoction mashes can be fun if you want to brew old-school, but are generally unnecessary with modern malts, unless you have unusually low enzyme content in your mash.  Heffeweizens can benefit from a single or double decoction because of the lower enzyme wheat malt as well as the high protein/glucan content that makes sparging an all-day event.
Title: Re: Getting Cold Feet on A Fest Recipe...
Post by: a10t2 on June 26, 2011, 10:01:56 pm
I would be skeptical of using some domestic Munich malts, but the beers I've  made with Best, Weyermann, Dingeman's are out of this world.

FWIW, I've been using Cargill Munich lately since it's what we stock at the brewery, and I've been pleasantly surprised.