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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: denny on December 28, 2009, 06:25:58 PM

Title: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 28, 2009, 06:25:58 PM
Anybody know where I can get a lot analysis for Best Malz?  Specifically their pils malt?
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 28, 2009, 07:03:24 PM
I always got if from the seller. North Country Malt in my case.

Kai
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 28, 2009, 07:11:22 PM
Thanks, Kai.  I picked this up from Brew Bros. in PDX.  I'll see if they know.  Do you happen to recall the extract potential that yours had?  I got insane efficiency this weekend with it, and I'm wondering if I underestimated the extract.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: babalu87 on December 28, 2009, 07:21:06 PM
82.5 Denny but that was from this past Spring

I have the PDF if you want it
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 28, 2009, 07:24:04 PM
82.5 Denny but that was from this past Spring

I have the PDF if you want it

Thanks, that's good enough.  Still trying to figure out how I got 97% mash efficiency and 93% into the fermenter!
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: majorvices on December 28, 2009, 07:26:40 PM
maybe you measured wrong.  ;)
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: babalu87 on December 28, 2009, 07:27:34 PM
82.5 Denny but that was from this past Spring

I have the PDF if you want it

Thanks, that's good enough.  Still trying to figure out how I got 97% mash efficiency and 93% into the fermenter!

I usually see a bump with it was well but have attributed that to decoction/step mashing that I use when making German beers.
That looks like more than a bump though  ;D
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 28, 2009, 07:48:23 PM
Single infusion for me, and it's about 10 pts. higher than is normal for me.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 28, 2009, 07:58:14 PM
Denny, you should not see a jump of 10% from 87% to 97%. Especially when you batch sparge with only one sparge and when you brew breers as strong as your sig suggests. There is a limit to what you can get with batch sparging and that is about 85-87%.

Contributing all the 10% to the malt is also difficult since the variances you would see in malt's extract potential might up to 3% but not more than that.

Kai
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 28, 2009, 10:00:22 PM
I agree with you Kai, but I'm not sure what else to attribute it to.  I was shooting for an OG of 1.052.  I used 17 lb. of Best pils malt (nothing else) and got 11.3 gal. of 1.052 pre boil.  I boiled down to just over 9 gal. and ended up at 1.060.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: bonjour on December 28, 2009, 10:51:26 PM
http://www.bestmalz.de/en/malt/malt-type-pilsner-malt.htm (http://www.bestmalz.de/en/malt/malt-type-pilsner-malt.htm)
Not a lot but from their website.

I agree with pretty much everyone here.  10% almost has to be a measurement error.  but with a good consisyent brewer this is not common.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: ndcube on December 29, 2009, 12:19:13 AM
Dang.  I was just about to post the same question.  I got Best Pils, Wheat & some Caramel from North Country but no lot analysis.  I emailed them but nothing yet.  Maybe I'll try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 29, 2009, 01:36:22 AM
You still have some of this malt left. See what you get with future mashes. Maybe keep track if mash thickness and first wort gravity as well. You could always try a test mash to test the malt potential extract. But that might be taking it too far.

Kai
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 29, 2009, 05:03:27 PM
You still have some of this malt left. See what you get with future mashes. Maybe keep track if mash thickness and first wort gravity as well. You could always try a test mash to test the malt potential extract. But that might be taking it too far.

Kai

Yeah, I just used 17 lb. out of a new 55 lb. bag, so there's lots left.  I always track the SG of both the first runoff and the total volume into the kettle.  FWIW, I recall that my mash thickness this time around was 1.53 qt./lb.  I used 6.5 gal. for the mash and IIRC 6.25 gal. for the sparge.  And Fred, I agree that measurement error was the first thing to cross my mind, so I double checked all my measurements.  It will be interesting in future uses of this grain to see what happens.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 29, 2009, 05:29:53 PM
what was the gravity of the first runnings?

Kai
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: bluesman on December 29, 2009, 05:33:16 PM
If you inadvertantly measured lets say 18lbs or more. You should see the result of that in your remaining grain bag. It would be a hassle to weigh the remaining grain. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 29, 2009, 05:40:13 PM
what was the gravity of the first runnings?

Kai

I don't recall off the top of my head.  I'll get out my notebook when I get home and let you know.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 29, 2009, 10:00:09 PM
If you inadvertantly measured lets say 18lbs or more. You should see the result of that in your remaining grain bag. It would be a hassle to weigh the remaining grain. Just a thought.

I appreciate the thought, but I'm positive I weighed out 17 lb.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 29, 2009, 10:02:23 PM
OK, here are the numbers...

17 lb. of Best pils malt.  Mashed with 6.5 gal.  1st runoff was 5.5 gal. of 1.074.  Sparged with 5.75 gal.  Total boil volume was 11.25 gal. of 1.052.  1.052 was my target gravity for the entire batch!
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 30, 2009, 12:43:23 AM
OK, here are the numbers...

17 lb. of Best pils malt.  Mashed with 6.5 gal.  1st runoff was 5.5 gal. of 1.074.  Sparged with 5.75 gal.  Total boil volume was 11.25 gal. of 1.052.  1.052 was my target gravity for the entire batch!

According to these numbers I get a conversion efficiency of ~95%. But with that an overall efficiency of 97% should not be possible unless you convert more starches during sparging.

But what is also odd is that you have a grain absorption of 0.06 gal/lb. This is about half of what brewers generally see. Did you correct the volumes for temperature?

Kai


Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: blatz on December 30, 2009, 12:43:58 AM
81.2% as of my latest order, from the Sept 09 lot, which is probably what you got (received it personally in early Dec).

Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 30, 2009, 04:23:50 PM
OK, here are the numbers...

17 lb. of Best pils malt.  Mashed with 6.5 gal.  1st runoff was 5.5 gal. of 1.074.  Sparged with 5.75 gal.  Total boil volume was 11.25 gal. of 1.052.  1.052 was my target gravity for the entire batch!

According to these numbers I get a conversion efficiency of ~95%. But with that an overall efficiency of 97% should not be possible unless you convert more starches during sparging.

But what is also odd is that you have a grain absorption of 0.06 gal/lb. This is about half of what brewers generally see. Did you correct the volumes for temperature?

Kai




I forgot to add that I added a gal. of boiling water before the mash runoff, so the total volume of water into the mash was 7.5 gal.  Still, though, I noticed a lower than usual absorption.  I did not correct volumes for temp., but the volumes I measured were at no more than 150F.  There shouldn't be much difference in that, should there?
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Hokerer on December 30, 2009, 04:36:43 PM
the volumes I measured were at no more than 150F.  There shouldn't be much difference in that, should there?

Isn't the volume difference between room temp and boiling something like 4%?  If you're measuring at 150F, that's about halfway so maybe 2%?  So, if you measured 10 gallons at 150F, it would really be 9.8 gallons - not a big difference but some.
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 30, 2009, 04:48:47 PM
I forgot to add that I added a gal. of boiling water before the mash runoff, so the total volume of water into the mash was 7.5 gal.  Still, though, I noticed a lower than usual absorption.  I did not correct volumes for temp., but the volumes I measured were at no more than 150F.  There shouldn't be much difference in that, should there?

That makes things a little more realistic. I put the numbers you gave me into my spreadsheet, I assumes 83% extract from the malt and 4% moisture content. Note the error analysis on the side. I took the liberty and made a guess how accuate your nunbers are.

(http://braukaiser.com/images/misc_forum/efficiency_analysis_denny.GIF)

Were the 1 gal that you added to the mash part of the sparge water volume? If no then your grain absorption is aboput 0.13 gal/lb. This is typical. If yes, your grain absorption is 0.07 gal/lb. This is significantly less and the cause of your high batch sparging efficiency. At least the problem of the conversion efficiency being lower than the efficiency into the kettle is solved. You had me questioning my theroy for a moment.

Kai



Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: denny on December 30, 2009, 04:52:04 PM

Were the 1 gal that you added to the mash part of the sparge water volume? If no then your grain absorption is aboput 0.13 gal/lb. This is typical. If yes, your grain absorption is 0.07 gal/lb. This is significantly less and the cause of your high batch sparging efficiency. At least the problem of the conversion efficiency being lower than the efficiency into the kettle is solved. You had me questioning my theroy for a moment.

Kai

Thanks for your analysis, Kai!  The extra gal. was added before the mash runoff and therefore was not part of the sparge volume.  That means my absorption was in line with what I normally get.  So, you're still a genius!  :)
Title: Re: Best Malz lot analysis?
Post by: Kaiser on December 30, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
So, you're still a genius!  :)

Thanks, but not quite. Now that your grain absoption is not out of line I can't explain how you got ~92% lauter efficiency when batch spatging a ~1060 beer. With just one sparge I would that expect to be more like 85-87%. You could get close to 90% with 2 sparges.

I guess we'll have to see how future batches with that malt turn out.

Kai