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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: phillamb168 on July 12, 2011, 12:39:06 PM

Title: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: phillamb168 on July 12, 2011, 12:39:06 PM
A pumpkin ale with no actual pumpkin inside: a paradox? False advertising? The terrorists win? Discuss.

--

I didn't have any pumpkin and wanted to try for a clone of Pumpking. Given that the gravity contribution per pound of pumpkin is something like 1.005, and I was making a 1-gallon test batch, I didn't bother putting any in. What I want is something pie-like with cinnamon and clove, which is really what you're getting when you buy a 'pumpkin ale.'

I know that this is verboten were I to try to sell the beer in the US, but what's the consensus? Am I going to be missing anything? The last time I did a pumpkin ale I did it with the prescribed 4 pounds of pumpkin in the mash, and while it smelled lovely during the mash, it ended up with a serious case of DMS.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on July 12, 2011, 12:45:07 PM
I'd say...close the the real thing.  Can't remember where I read it but I read that the amount of pumpkin in Pumpking is tiny, like less than 1/2 pound (and closer to 1/4# IIRC) for an entire 5 gal batch.  It's all about the pumpkin pie spices (which IIRC were cinnamon, clove, ginger, and vanilla).
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: phillamb168 on July 12, 2011, 12:55:50 PM
I'd say...close the the real thing.  Can't remember where I read it but I read that the amount of pumpkin in Pumpking is tiny, like less than 1/2 pound (and closer to 1/4# IIRC) for an entire 5 gal batch.  It's all about the pumpkin pie spices (which IIRC were cinnamon, clove, ginger, and vanilla).

Where did you get your recipe from? I was thinking of going off of this one: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index8.html#post2370516

But ended up using the pumpkin ale recipe found in Radical Brewing, subbing out half of the clove for an equivalent amount extra of ginger. I'll add vanilla to the secondary. I mashed super, super high for what I normally do (160 F) in order to get that residual sweetness.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: ccarlson on July 12, 2011, 01:05:59 PM
I'd like to have a proven, not overwhelming, spice recipe for a pumpkin ale. I won't be adding any real pumpkin either.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: Jimmy K on July 12, 2011, 01:06:57 PM
I could be wrong but I don't think DFH Punkin Ale contains any actual pumpkin, just brown sugar and spices. Even if I am wrong, I've heard this done. I hear none of the perpetrators made it through the rapture.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on July 12, 2011, 01:53:29 PM
Where did you get your recipe from? I was thinking of going off of this one: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index8.html#post2370516

But ended up using the pumpkin ale recipe found in Radical Brewing, subbing out half of the clove for an equivalent amount extra of ginger. I'll add vanilla to the secondary. I mashed super, super high for what I normally do (160 F) in order to get that residual sweetness.
It was probably from HBT, I did a bunch of research on it and one thread had input from the brewer at Southern Tier.  I just wrote down 'my version' of it but haven't got around to brewing it.  Based on my written recipe and memory: the grist is simply 95% 2-row and 5% C20, that's it.  There is no lactose.  You are right about mashing super high.  Roast the pumpkin pulp (a whole 4-5 oz of it) in the oven, puree it, and add it to the mash.  ST seems to like using extracts after fermentation.  OG/FG are around 1.092 and 1.025.  ~26 IBU, I wrote down Magnum and Sterling but that might be (likely) because I have Magnum and Sterling on-hand.  If I come across that thread again I'll link it.

EDIT: lol, at least some of my info was from one of your threads (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=7524.msg94382#msg94382) Phil!  Looks like it's 5% C60 not C20, I changed the '*L' column in my spreadsheet to 60L but did not change the ingredient name column.  5% C60 should yield a beer right around 12 SRM.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: Will's Swill on July 13, 2011, 02:49:55 AM
DFH does use pumpkin in the Punkin.  I'd say "quite a bit", but perhaps it only looks that way and isn't really in comparison to their batch size.  Anyway, I've done pumpkin ales both with and without, though never the same recipe.  I can't really say that I can taste the difference, but I'd like to try a side-by-side one of these days.  A buddy of mine makes his without, I'll have to talk him into brewing the other side...

(Written while sipping my Saved from Chunkin' Punkin Wheat as it happens...)
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: oscarvan on July 13, 2011, 03:42:02 AM
I will be making a pumpkin ale this fall and it WILL have pumpkin in it. Not sure whether we're talking fresh or frozen/canned yet. But if you call it Pumpkin it better have Pumpkin in there. Not sayin', just sayin'......'no' what I'm sayin'?
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: a10t2 on July 13, 2011, 04:05:27 PM
I'd like to have a proven, not overwhelming, spice recipe for a pumpkin ale.

For 5 gal:
8 g crystallized ginger
6 g cloves, cracked
4 g whole cinnamon
4 g nutmeg, coarsely ground

Add at flameout and steep 30 min during whirlpool. You may want to up the cinnamon if you want it to be dominant, but I prefer that the clove and nutmeg be the focus.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: ccarlson on July 13, 2011, 04:38:36 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but what is crystallized ginger and thanks for the recipe.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: dbeechum on July 13, 2011, 04:58:05 PM
Pieces of ginger cooked down in a sugar syrup to become candy like.

Look like this:

(http://img.foodnetwork.com/FOOD/2009/01/21/EA1212_Candied-Ginger_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: ccarlson on July 13, 2011, 05:07:20 PM
Looks like it's easy to make, according to this recipe. http://www.food.com/recipe/crystallized-ginger-ginger-syrup-ginger-sugar-102933   (http://www.food.com/recipe/crystallized-ginger-ginger-syrup-ginger-sugar-102933)
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: phillamb168 on July 13, 2011, 05:29:45 PM
they are delicious and also cure sea sickness... in theory. My last stint in a J30 proved uneventful, anyway.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: jaybeerman on July 13, 2011, 05:40:24 PM
they are delicious and also cure sea sickness... in theory. My last stint in a J30 proved uneventful, anyway.

they are indeed delicious and very effective at curing sea sickness...I eat them all the time and never get sea sick here in colorado
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: richardt on July 13, 2011, 05:53:00 PM
My tweak on the candied ginger would be to slowly simmer the sliced ginger using water only.  After the ginger has softened, then I would pour off some of the water (which tends to be overly strong "ginger-wise") and reserve just a cup or two of that ginger broth, perhaps even add some fresh water to dilute it just a bit (or prevent scorching), and do the sugar addition.  You can always add back more of the ginger broth if you desire.  However, I prefer the smoother flavors and aromas achieved by removing some of the boil water (i.e., the broth) before adding the sugars.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: euge on July 13, 2011, 06:24:55 PM
A pumpkin ale with no actual pumpkin inside: a paradox? False advertising? The terrorists win? Discuss.

...What I want is something pie-like with cinnamon and clove, which is really what you're getting when you buy a 'pumpkin ale.'

For a holiday spicy brew I'd prefer an apple-pie beer over "pumpkin". I'm not gonna be much help since I view pumpkin beer as an abomination. :P
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: oscarvan on July 13, 2011, 11:05:39 PM
they are delicious and also cure sea sickness... in theory. My last stint in a J30 proved uneventful, anyway.

Nothing will cure the squirleyness (sp?) of a J30.......

I tried everything..... in the end there is only one solution, for me. Hurl the first day, eat some Knackebröt and get over it. Be good for the rest of the trip.

6000 miles in a Catalina 42 in 4 years most of it off shore, half of it solo.......2005-2009.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: phillamb168 on July 14, 2011, 09:28:47 AM
they are delicious and also cure sea sickness... in theory. My last stint in a J30 proved uneventful, anyway.

Nothing will cure the squirleyness (sp?) of a J30.......

I tried everything..... in the end there is only one solution, for me. Hurl the first day, eat some Knackebröt and get over it. Be good for the rest of the trip.

6000 miles in a Catalina 42 in 4 years most of it off shore, half of it solo.......2005-2009.

I am not worthy.

Time to start a sailing thread?
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: oscarvan on July 14, 2011, 01:50:48 PM
Sure.....in the Pub.
Title: Re: Pumpkin ale with no pumpkin
Post by: ryang on July 18, 2011, 05:13:33 PM
Pumpkin beer must have pumpkin.

My last pumpkin ale (a saison) had 9lbs 5oz of pumpkin.  6.5lbs of which was pie pumpkins... skinned, cubed, baked, mashed by hand from the garden.  The other was canned, non-spiced.  All got a heavy dose of oven-time at 350 -- until browned and smelling terrific.

All pumpkin went into the boil with 10min remaining. 
Spices were added at flameout: allspice, coriander, cloves, cardamom, cinnamon, peppercorns, ginger, nutmeg.

My best iteration yet.  Will brew this again this fall.  Works fantastically well with saison yeast.

Strain the pumpkin out so it doesn't go in the fermenter.