Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: Pawtucket Patriot on July 13, 2011, 02:37:43 pm

Title: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on July 13, 2011, 02:37:43 pm
Many of us aren't MillerCoors fans, but this is really bad for business. The MN government shutdown has gotten way out of hand.

http://pintoflaw.com/?p=213
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: morticaixavier on July 13, 2011, 02:39:48 pm
seems like it might be a boon for a lot of nimble craft lager brewers
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: ccarlson on July 13, 2011, 03:43:33 pm
"...the process got held up when they wrote a check for too much money"

Bureaucracy at it's best.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on July 13, 2011, 04:06:22 pm
"...the process got held up when they wrote a check for too much money"

Bureaucracy at it's best.

Right, that struck me as really strange. Like they couldn't have signed off on the registration (especially given the impending shutdown) and simply issued a refund??
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: tschmidlin on July 13, 2011, 04:08:20 pm
"...the process got held up when they wrote a check for too much money"

Bureaucracy at it's best.

Right, that struck me as really strange. Like they couldn't have signed off on the registration (especially given the impending shutdown) and simply issued a refund??
It might not have just been the check, it could have been the paperwork was wrong which was why the check was wrong.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: ckpash88 on July 13, 2011, 04:43:50 pm
Wow I hate my state right now. I can't get a Miller highlife and go camping...lame. Good thing I have a fridge full of craft beer from around Minnesota and a backyard with a pool.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: tschmidlin on July 13, 2011, 04:56:26 pm
Wow I hate my state right now. I can't get a Miller highlife and go camping...lame. Good thing I have a fridge full of craft beer from around Minnesota and a backyard with a pool.
Doesn't Surly can?  You can take that camping . . .
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on July 13, 2011, 05:13:29 pm
Wow I hate my state right now. I can't get a Miller highlife and go camping...lame. Good thing I have a fridge full of craft beer from around Minnesota and a backyard with a pool.
Doesn't Surly can?  You can take that camping . . .

Yep, and we now have cans of 21st Amendment in Minnesota too.  

There's definitely no loss here for the craft beer community.  As morticaixavier pointed out, this could be a boon for local, craft beer.  But it serves as a painful example of how the shutdown -- which is of unprecedented magnitude in our state -- can affect the brewing industry.  This will hurt MillerCoors as Minnesota is a big market for them.

Rumors of a possible legal challenge are already circulating.  One of MillerCoors' positions is likely to be that retailers should at least be able to sell what they've got on hand to the extent that the product was purchased prior to the expiration of the brand registration.  It sounds like a pretty good argument, but I'd have to do some research to see how or whether courts have ever had to consider that issue.  It's probably not all that likely that the issue has been litigated under same or similar facts.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: maxieboy on July 13, 2011, 05:13:52 pm
"...the process got held up when they wrote a check for too much money"

Bureaucracy at it's best.

Right, that struck me as really strange. Like they couldn't have signed off on the registration (especially given the impending shutdown) and simply issued a refund??

Way to simple of a solution. I've dealt with too many bureaucracies to even hope for that type of common sense resolution to a simple problem. Not strange at all.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: morticaixavier on July 13, 2011, 10:47:27 pm
almost completely off topic but when I first looked at the link in the OP I thought it said pinto flaw and it took me a good three minutes to work out pint of law.

anywhoo.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: ckpash88 on July 13, 2011, 11:08:45 pm
All the state parks are shut down and I am not going to a KOA. Looks like I am posting up shop in my back yard
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: tschmidlin on July 14, 2011, 12:23:00 am
All the state parks are shut down and I am not going to a KOA. Looks like I am posting up shop in my back yard
Don't give up . . .
http://www.nps.gov/applications/parksearch/state.cfm?st=MN
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: ckpash88 on July 14, 2011, 02:11:37 am
I hope this helps with the craft beer in Minnesota but on the other hand I like Miller and this will affect their sales and peoples livelihood. I bet anheiser busch are happy as clams
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: phillamb168 on July 14, 2011, 03:32:28 am
This whole thing (economy, and too much fighting between parties) is going to get much, much worse before it gets better. I'm not a BMC fan in the slightest, but as people have said, they're a huge employer, and probably a decent income source for the state by way of taxes as well.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: ccarlson on July 14, 2011, 04:35:51 am
This whole thing (economy, and too much fighting between parties) is going to get much, much worse before it gets better. I'm not a BMC fan in the slightest, but as people have said, they're a huge employer, and probably a decent income source for the state by way of taxes as well.

^^^^^^^^^^^ That
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: loopy on July 14, 2011, 09:39:15 pm
Quote
All the state parks are shut down and I am not going to a KOA.

Why does the park have to be open to use it?  Isn't the park by definition owned by the people?
So along the same lines as with this shutdown, if you fish without a license because you could not buy a license?  Do you get cited?
If your license plate is expired, and you cannot renew because they are shut down, do you get a ticket?
Do they only exist to tax you, and if so, who cares how long they stay shutdown?  

I think the longer they are shut down the better, because people may see exactly how little they actually provide in "service".
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: phillamb168 on July 15, 2011, 08:38:06 am
Quote
All the state parks are shut down and I am not going to a KOA.

Why does the park have to be open to use it?  Isn't the park by definition owned by the people?
So along the same lines as with this shutdown, if you fish without a license because you could not buy a license?  Do you get cited?
If your license plate is expired, and you cannot renew because they are shut down, do you get a ticket?
Do they only exist to tax you, and if so, who cares how long they stay shutdown?  

I think the longer they are shut down the better, because people may see exactly how little they actually provide in "service".

State Parks provide the same invaluable service as libraries - they give to any person an experience commonly left to those with money. The money spent at the parks goes to, among other things, grounds upkeep, electricity and water, cleaning, trail improvements, and flora and fauna management.

I don't know about fishing licenses, but when you buy hunting tags/pay for a hunting license for a season, one of the things you're paying for is a very complex monitoring system that's been put in place to control the population of critters. For an example of what happens when you don't have something like this in place (and enforced), see Buffalo. Oh wait, you can't anymore, unless you're in Wyoming. Know what I mean?

These taxes aren't just there to suck money from people - they serve a purpose. And going back to topic, the state taxes that BMC pay to distribute in each state are an integral (if not absolutely enormous) part of that state's budget.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Slowbrew on July 15, 2011, 09:41:35 am
Fishing license fees mostly go to conservation efforts concerned with bodies of water and water ways.  They support hatcheries and restocking efforts in lakes and rivers.  In Iowa the fees also cover clinics to teach kids and adults how to fish and be safe while doing so.

I would assume that if you choose to fish without a license and get checked, you will get a ticket based on you knowing the possibility of a shutdown existed and didn't plan ahead.  That's not the DNR's problem.

Vehicle tags are probably a little different.  Although most would fall in the "you could have avoided this problem by renewing earlier" context also.

IMHO, YMMV

Paul
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on July 15, 2011, 09:57:57 am
Fishing without a license could get you a fine.  See here. (http://www.startribune.com/local/125493163.html)

I haven't heard about about any incidents regarding vehicle tabs.

It's all pretty much moot now anyway though, since the Governor and the Legislature say they have a deal that will result in an enacted budget in a matter of days.  I'm not sure if MillerCoors has even begun to implement a plan to pull product from retailers shelves.  If they haven't, they should be in the clear now anyway.

Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: richardt on July 15, 2011, 10:15:12 am
For an example of what happens when you don't have something like this in place (and enforced), see Buffalo. Oh wait, you can't anymore, unless you're in Wyoming. Know what I mean?

Actually, they're American Bison. 

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bison_vs_Buffalo (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bison_vs_Buffalo)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bison)

And they can be found on many private farms and public parks throughout the North American plains, not just Wyoming. 
They're one of my favorite animals.  It is beautiful to watch a herd in a scenic setting.
Nonetheless, I get your point. Parks programs and animal/nature conservation are critical. 
Thank God for TDR and his use of the Forest Reserve Act of 1891 and the Antiquities Act of 1906.  ;)

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Land+as+legacy%3a+20th+century+American+presidents+left+land+as+their...-a0132801743 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Land+as+legacy%3a+20th+century+American+presidents+left+land+as+their...-a0132801743)
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Kit B on July 15, 2011, 01:46:47 pm
Last time I spent a night in a MN state park, it cost me over $65...
So much for "they give to any person an experience commonly left to those with money".
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: phillamb168 on July 16, 2011, 12:06:48 pm
Last time I spent a night in a MN state park, it cost me over $65...
So much for "they give to any person an experience commonly left to those with money".

Jeez, that's ridiculous. Were you hauling a camper or something? I've never paid more than $15 for a state park campsite before.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: rbclay on July 16, 2011, 12:34:38 pm
Last time I spent a night in a MN state park, it cost me over $65...
So much for "they give to any person an experience commonly left to those with money".

You must have paid for a camp site and a four-pack of Surly...
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: boulderbrewer on July 21, 2011, 10:16:54 am
Just karma back a millercoors for the law that got past in Wisconsin, which stifles craft brewing.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Kit B on July 21, 2011, 01:45:06 pm
Jeez, that's ridiculous. Were you hauling a camper or something? I've never paid more than $15 for a state park campsite before.

Nope...I was tenting it.
In MN, you buy the MN State Park Vehicle Annual Permit Sticker = $25
Then, you pay for reservation fee = $8.50
Then you pay the amount for whatever site you're reserving...Standard site = $12 to $20 per night.
You want electric?  + $5 per night
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: morticaixavier on July 21, 2011, 01:51:37 pm
well so 25$ of that 65$ was an annual pass, unless you only go once you gotta amortize that. and who needs electricity when camping? kind of defeats the purpose to me. but that's just me.
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: jaybeerman on July 21, 2011, 02:16:04 pm
and who needs electricity when camping? kind of defeats the purpose to me. but that's just me.

No there's two of us.  But he uses a tent so you have to give him half credit for that. So two and a half of us
Title: Re: MillerCoors Forced To Pull Products From Retail Outlets In Minnesota
Post by: Kit B on July 21, 2011, 02:27:13 pm
well so 25$ of that 65$ was an annual pass, unless you only go once you gotta amortize that. and who needs electricity when camping? kind of defeats the purpose to me. but that's just me.

Ya...I got out a whole 2 times that year.
One of those times was at a private campground.
So, the $25 is still $25.