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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: sparkleberry on July 23, 2011, 08:28:26 AM

Title: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: sparkleberry on July 23, 2011, 08:28:26 AM
happy accident...

i was soaking some recycled bottles from several different brewers(i like drinking my own, but don't hesitate at all to drink great stuff) and discovered that in addition to cleaning bottles like nobody's business, oxyclean will also break down glue used for affixing labels to bottles.  double whammy!

this is great because, i feel like i can now rinse a bottle with hot water, soak in oxyclean to break down any left over crap AND peel labels.  way before i sanitize.

i think my bottling process just got that much easier.  it should be said that i will clean/peel the extra bottles i need for a batch way in advance.  seriously.  a few bottles a night for a couple of weeks will do the trick and make your bottling simple!  i also make my priming sugar ready and sanitize the night before.

i previously would rinse a bottle with hot water, soak in an ammonia/water bath to peel and then clean & sanitize and bottle.

i haven't proved this yet, but will get back in a couple weeks for a final thought. 

all said, if you are diligent in rinsing bottles as you drink them, bottling isn't as bad as you think!  and you get great, conditioned beer.  i like to make high OG ales that love to develop anyhow.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: punatic on July 23, 2011, 08:39:16 AM
Don't leave them in the oxyclean too long.  A scale builds up on things that soak too long.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: sparkleberry on July 23, 2011, 08:51:36 AM
thanks for the input!  i'll totally incorporate the notes.

i haven't let things soak too long.  maybe an hour or three, still with a solid hot water after-rinse and clean.

as a side note, i've only been on the forum for a couple of weeks(got my card just in time for the GABF pre-sale this year), but i have learned and taken a great deal of information from this amazing online experience.  i can't wait to brew sunday! 

thank you everybody.  the knowledge has been invaluable!

Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: uthristy on July 23, 2011, 11:41:43 AM
Don't leave them in the oxyclean too long.  A scale builds up on things that soak too long.

? I've left bottles soaking  for 3weeks and never had scales, slim but no scales.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: Mark G on July 23, 2011, 01:33:20 PM
Oxyclean, cut one-third with TSP substitute, is what I use to clean all my brewing equipment. Not quite as effective as PBW, but at a fraction of the cost, it's close enough.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: jhwk on July 23, 2011, 03:20:00 PM
Oxyclean until I 'found' PBW.  Works just fine.  Unscented...
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: gymrat on July 23, 2011, 03:34:59 PM
Don't leave them in the oxyclean too long.  A scale builds up on things that soak too long.

? I've left bottles soaking  for 3weeks and never had scales, slim but no scales.

It depends on how much oxyclean you use. If you don't overdo it, it won't leave the scaling, a little too much and you will get a gritty bottle that will take a really long time to clean up. I add about a half a teaspoon to a sink full of water. Does the trick and no grit. I learned that over time.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: denny on July 23, 2011, 03:49:11 PM
Don't leave them in the oxyclean too long.  A scale builds up on things that soak too long.

That seems to be dependent on your water.  I've occasionally left bottles/jugs/flasks in Oxiclean for a week without any problems.

FWIW, it's interesting to see how things come around...I recall first posting about using Oxiclean to remove labels back around 99-200 on rcb.  Just a reminder that it's a good idea to revisit what we've ;earned in the past for the benefit of new brewers.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: tonyp on July 23, 2011, 04:09:08 PM
I soak bottles in oxyclean also, but one thing i've noticed is that there are a few brands that oxy just won't get off. The labels from Eerie's Mad Anthony just won't come off no matter how long you soak them.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: pyrite on July 23, 2011, 04:36:43 PM
happy accident...

i was soaking some recycled bottles from several different brewers(i like drinking my own, but don't hesitate at all to drink great stuff) and discovered that in addition to cleaning bottles like nobody's business, oxyclean will also break down glue used for affixing labels to bottles.  double whammy!

this is great because, i feel like i can now rinse a bottle with hot water, soak in oxyclean to break down any left over crap AND peel labels.  way before i sanitize.

Yes, but have you tried it on Pliny the Elder bottles? PTE labels are hard to peel off.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: sparkleberry on July 23, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
i find those ones come off pretty easily with an ammonia/water soak.


"FWIW, it's interesting to see how things come around...I recall first posting about using Oxiclean to remove labels back around 99-200 on rcb.  Just a reminder that it's a good idea to revisit what we've ;earned in the past for the benefit of new brewers."

i knew i probably wasn't the first to try this, just got excited to discover it worked.  i'm actually surprised i hadn't though of it sooner.  way better than sticking my hands in ammonia.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: Will's Swill on July 23, 2011, 05:07:46 PM
FWIW, it's interesting to see how things come around...I recall first posting about using Oxiclean to remove labels back around 99-200 on rcb.

Wow, Denny really has been around a long time! rcb = roman conqueror beer   ;D
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: denny on July 23, 2011, 05:27:15 PM
 :D
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: gymrat on July 23, 2011, 05:28:50 PM
FWIW, it's interesting to see how things come around...I recall first posting about using Oxiclean to remove labels back around 99-200 on rcb.

Wow, Denny really has been around a long time! rcb = roman conqueror beer   ;D

And yet, not a hair out of place.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: pyrite on July 23, 2011, 06:32:13 PM
i find those ones come off pretty easily with an ammonia/water soak.


thanks, good to know.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: EHall on July 23, 2011, 06:49:27 PM
kegging made my bottling process easier...
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: richardt on July 24, 2011, 01:45:47 AM
Don't leave them in the oxyclean too long.  A scale builds up on things that soak too long.

Like Denny said, it totally depends on your water.  I had horrific scale/film develop on my bottles and the inside of my 5 gallon corny when I left oxyclean in there for days (maybe even weeks).  I have water with high alkalinity and high bicarbonate and sulfate levels.  Perhaps, that won't occur if your water alkalinity is much lower. 
A water expert might be able to explain why.  I just know that I won't be doing it again--removing the film and scale requires mechanical scrubbing--it does not come off the inside of a SS corny keg easily.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on July 24, 2011, 01:58:58 AM
Don't leave them in the oxyclean too long.  A scale builds up on things that soak too long.

Like Denny said, it totally depends on your water.  I had horrific scale/film develop on my bottles and the inside of my 5 gallon corny when I left oxyclean in there for days (maybe even weeks).  I have water with high alkalinity and high bicarbonate and sulfate levels.  Perhaps, that won't occur if your water alkalinity is much lower. 
A water expert might be able to explain why.  I just know that I won't be doing it again--removing the film and scale requires mechanical scrubbing--it does not come off the inside of a SS corny keg easily.

This is my experience with my highly alkaline water.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: punatic on July 24, 2011, 02:29:34 AM
I just know that I won't be doing it again--removing the film and scale requires mechanical scrubbing--it does not come off the inside of a SS corny keg easily.

Next time try soaking the film and scale away with a vinegar and water solution.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: alan_marks59 on July 24, 2011, 05:48:29 PM
StarSan works for me to remove any scale buildup from soaking in oxyclean, the acid dissoves any buildup.

Alan
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on July 25, 2011, 03:06:09 PM
^^^+1.  The combination of soaking in PBW (or Oxiclean free) followed by a Starsan soak works very well for a lot of the things we soak.  Left a beer glass sitting half-full and it has a 'ring'...PBW followed by Starsan (mainly the Starsan).  Carboy has a ring from Oxiclean/PBW...use Starsan.  Brown-ish film on bottom of your kettle?...PBW followed by Starsan and it's bright shiny new stainless again.  Just don't soak plastic tubing too long (mainly in Starsan) or it will get tacky.

I never throw away PBW or Starsan solutions after one use (Starsan gets used for weeks), there's always something that will need a soak soon enough.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: brewmonk on July 26, 2011, 08:00:53 AM
i knew i probably wasn't the first to try this, just got excited to discover it worked.  i'm actually surprised i hadn't though of it sooner.  way better than sticking my hands in ammonia.
"Eureka moments" are awesome as I am learning brewing.  Sometimes the simpler the realization the better, since they usually help your process immensely.  Plus, even if others have realized it, the fact that you didn't realize it for a while means others of us also haven't.  So, all information shared is appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: majorvices on July 26, 2011, 12:31:34 PM
Oxyclean, cut one-third with TSP substitute, is what I use to clean all my brewing equipment. Not quite as effective as PBW, but at a fraction of the cost, it's close enough.

This is exactly what I do. Works great.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: ccarlson on July 26, 2011, 12:40:32 PM
I always used 50:50 Oxiclean and TSP. I take it 70:30 works well?
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: Mark G on July 26, 2011, 12:52:09 PM
I always used 50:50 Oxiclean and TSP. I take it 70:30 works well?
Supposedly (and I can't remember my source for this info, so take it with a grain of salt), the 2:1 Oxyclean/TSP substitute ratio mirrors PBW's composition pretty closely. In addition, the Oxyclean containers I buy are about twice the size of the TSP containers, so this ratio works perfectly for mixing. I'm very satisfied with the results.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: ccarlson on July 26, 2011, 01:43:18 PM
I always used 50:50 Oxiclean and TSP. I take it 70:30 works well?
Supposedly (and I can't remember my source for this info, so take it with a grain of salt), the 2:1 Oxyclean/TSP substitute ratio mirrors PBW's composition pretty closely. In addition, the Oxyclean containers I buy are about twice the size of the TSP containers, so this ratio works perfectly for mixing. I'm very satisfied with the results.

I'll give that a try next time. TSP isn't cheap.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: ibru on July 26, 2011, 02:51:38 PM
OK, dumb question...

What is TSP??
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: theDarkSide on July 26, 2011, 03:08:34 PM
OK, dumb question...

What is TSP??

Trisodium Phosphate ( or teaspoon or Thrift Savings Plan :) )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: majorvices on July 26, 2011, 04:08:09 PM
Make sure you use the TSP Substitute. The only place I have found it is Lowes. And, yes, the 2:1 ration oxyclean/TSP sub is what I have heard is the right ratio. As was mentioned, TSP sub ain't cheap.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: bluesman on July 26, 2011, 04:35:45 PM
Make sure you use the TSP Substitute. The only place I have found it is Lowes. And, yes, the 2:1 ration oxyclean/TSP sub is what I have heard is the right ratio. As was mentioned, TSP sub ain't cheap.

This is good info Keith...I'll keep this in mind for the future as PBW is fairly expensive these days.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: ccarlson on July 26, 2011, 04:40:52 PM
I've used both the real stuff as well as the substitute. I can't see any real difference and since they are the same price, why not the take the more environmentally safe route.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: richardt on July 26, 2011, 05:10:56 PM
OK.  I'm curious, because I did leave a hose in the Starsan bucket. ::)
What gets the tacky sheen off of the plastic hoses that gets left in StarSan solution too long? 
Since StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer, is there any harm in continuing to use such a hose?
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: Will's Swill on July 27, 2011, 01:38:46 AM
I've used both the real stuff as well as the substitute. I can't see any real difference and since they are the same price, why not the take the more environmentally safe route.

Pure ignorance here...  What's the difference between the two and which one is more environmentally safe?
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: punatic on July 27, 2011, 02:49:55 AM
Apparently "TSP substitute" is a description that applies to different compounds, not a brand or trade name for a specific compound.  I found this TSP substitute from DAP  (http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/00079401001_english.pdf) (not the yeast nutrient) that is listed as being 45% - 90% sodium carbonate (washing soda).  That's a pretty liberal spread of percentage of content!  Note that it is listed as being incompatable with strong bases and oxidizing agents.  It is a white powder.

Here is the MSDS for Savogran TSP Substitute (http://www.savogran.com/Information/TSP_Liquid_Sub_MS.pdf) that Lowes sells.  It is a pink liquid.  There is no list of contents (trade secrets get a MSDS bye).

One should be careful of the chemicals they mix, use, and recommend.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: morticaixavier on July 27, 2011, 03:18:50 AM
OK.  I'm curious, because I did leave a hose in the Starsan bucket. ::)
What gets the tacky sheen off of the plastic hoses that gets left in StarSan solution too long? 
Since StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer, is there any harm in continuing to use such a hose?

I would GUESS that the tacky sheen is not star san but plastic that has had it's molecular structure changed by star san. but I could be wrong. I am not a chemist nor do I play one on TV
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: tschmidlin on July 27, 2011, 03:51:54 AM
OK.  I'm curious, because I did leave a hose in the Starsan bucket. ::)
What gets the tacky sheen off of the plastic hoses that gets left in StarSan solution too long? 
Since StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer, is there any harm in continuing to use such a hose?

I would GUESS that the tacky sheen is not star san but plastic that has had it's molecular structure changed by star san. but I could be wrong. I am not a chemist nor do I play one on TV
It's a component of the starsan that comes out of solution, I think it is the surfactant.
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: morticaixavier on July 27, 2011, 04:29:45 AM
OK.  I'm curious, because I did leave a hose in the Starsan bucket. ::)
What gets the tacky sheen off of the plastic hoses that gets left in StarSan solution too long? 
Since StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer, is there any harm in continuing to use such a hose?

I would GUESS that the tacky sheen is not star san but plastic that has had it's molecular structure changed by star san. but I could be wrong. I am not a chemist nor do I play one on TV
It's a component of the starsan that comes out of solution, I think it is the surfactant.
well there you go. wrong again. :(
Title: Re: for bottle brewers...and any brewers...oxyclean!
Post by: tschmidlin on July 27, 2011, 04:37:58 AM
OK.  I'm curious, because I did leave a hose in the Starsan bucket. ::)
What gets the tacky sheen off of the plastic hoses that gets left in StarSan solution too long? 
Since StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer, is there any harm in continuing to use such a hose?

I would GUESS that the tacky sheen is not star san but plastic that has had it's molecular structure changed by star san. but I could be wrong. I am not a chemist nor do I play one on TV
It's a component of the starsan that comes out of solution, I think it is the surfactant.
well there you go. wrong again. :(
We're all here to learn and share ;) ;D