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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: dean on January 03, 2010, 08:01:20 AM

Title: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 03, 2010, 08:01:20 AM
Check this out.  http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.af09375837a21e6bf486e0c8aed43c9a.01&show_article=1

Make no mistake, you Will go green or else.  Not saying there is anything wrong with going green but I believe we will see a Lot more forcing our hands to go green.  That and this is just another example of how we are and will be forced to pay higher and increasing Taxes, Fee's, Permits, etc. etc. etc.

Cigarette smokers were and are still targeted, having to pay Huge taxes which are supposedly to pay for hospitalization, care etc. related to smoking.  Yet smokers are few among those receiving any treatments for the monies gained through these taxes because as studies prove, they don't live as long thus not requiring extended care etc.

Alcohol and Soda is being looked at for new forms of tax revenue.  Candies, chips, cakes, won't be far behind because they can be proven to contribute to obesity, diabetes and other "diseases".  Fast food... seems to be able to stay under the radar for the time being... imagine that?


Farmers will become the mainstay of our foods, which I agree with but don't think any of us will get off without a tax on that either... its coming, count on it.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 03, 2010, 06:01:51 PM
Try out Chicago living. Highest liquor tax in the nation, 10.25 sales tax, 7 dollar cigs, soda tax, candy tax, tanning tax, Germans own the parking meters, it's wonderful! But I won't mention Blagojevich or Obama cuz that would be politics.  8)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dontblake on January 03, 2010, 07:29:10 PM
What's wrong with a $.05 charge for those pesky plastic bags?  Maybe people would start to (a) reuse their old ones or better yet (b) invest a buck or 2  in a canvas bag that would last years.    I'd much prefer to be charged for a bag vs having the checkout person forget to deduct the "bag refund".  

Other ways to go green when brewing?
I have a dedicated canvas shopping bag that goes to the homebrew store for my purchase.
I capture most if not all of the water from my wort chiller - the hottest goes into a bucket to off-gas the Cl and to be used as brewing liquor for the next batch, warm water goes to clean up the current batch, and the cold stuff goes to water the indoor plants (or trees when it's dry).
My spent grains go in the compost pile.  

Oh, by the way, they've been charging for bags in Germany for years (at least the shop in Heidelberg that we'd go to when visiting my wife's grandmother).

my 5 bag refunds :)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: capozzoli on January 04, 2010, 07:27:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51BQfPeSK8k
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: uthristy on January 04, 2010, 08:01:28 AM
What's wrong with a $.05 charge for those pesky plastic bags?
Maybe people would start to (a) reuse their old ones or better yet (b) invest a buck or 2  in a canvas bag that would last years.

Oh, by the way, they've been charging for bags in Germany for years (at least the shop in Heidelberg that we'd go to when visiting my wife's grandmother).

my 5 bag refunds :)

Same in Belgium & Netherlands, you bring your own bag to the store.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: denny on January 04, 2010, 09:32:30 AM
Check this out.  http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.af09375837a21e6bf486e0c8aed43c9a.01&show_article=1

Sounds like a great idea to me.  A lot of places around here already do it.  It's really easy to avoid paying that nickel by just bringing your own bag.  No big deal.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: majorvices on January 04, 2010, 09:51:03 AM
I miss paper bags. So much easier to hold grain.  ;)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: Hokerer on January 04, 2010, 10:19:20 AM
Check this out.  http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.af09375837a21e6bf486e0c8aed43c9a.01&show_article=1

Sounds like a great idea to me.  I walk two miles each way back and forth to work every day and those stupid plastic bags are everywhere.  We're about 40 miles from DC and I wish they'd do it here too.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: slimsparty on January 04, 2010, 10:37:19 AM
Trader Joes had a great idea.  They had a raffle you cold get into if you bring bags back.

We try.  We don't do 100% reuse.  One thing I doo miss from Chicago was just using my big messenger bag for shopping.  The burbs are soooo car centric.  people look at peds like they are insane, out of work, or homeless out here.

I think I am going to implement the hot IC water for clean up program.  I think it'll save my lawn.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 04, 2010, 12:14:09 PM
Green tax is just a "convenient" way to tax us more. Get used to it.


What about the hotels, and their bedding and towel policies? They don't swap bedding during your stay unless you specifically request it, and towels you should reuse. It saves millions of dollars, causes less pollution, and uses less fossil fuels, etc.

Where did all that saved money go? Hotel rates didn't drop.  :-[

I'm all for saving the planet; but the people cashing in on us in the name of environmentalism kinda tweaks me.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: denny on January 04, 2010, 12:36:58 PM
Green tax is just a "convenient" way to tax us more. Get used to it.


What about the hotels, and their bedding and towel policies? They don't swap bedding during your stay unless you specifically request it, and towels you should reuse. It saves millions of dollars, causes less pollution, and uses less fossil fuels, etc.

Where did all that saved money go? Hotel rates didn't drop.  :-[

OTOH, maybe they didn't go up as much as they would have otherwise.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: Hokerer on January 04, 2010, 01:03:37 PM
OTOH, maybe they didn't go up as much as they would have otherwise.

Plus, regardless of whether they go up or down or not, you're still doing better for the environment.  Everything doesn't have to be about "what's in it for me".
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: uthristy on January 04, 2010, 02:12:04 PM
But this is america and if I want to drive a 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado  with a beer in one hand while texting on my cell thats my right as an american .  ::) ::) ;D   damn pinko commies

(http://chud.com/articles/content_images/223/fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas-3-800.jpg)



Sarcasm people, but I have heard pretty much those same words.

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: capozzoli on January 04, 2010, 02:19:02 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxgWHzMvXOY

Did he say rusty trombone?
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: capozzoli on January 04, 2010, 02:37:21 PM
No, had the day off with my 18 month. Nothing stops fussyness like Sesame street.

No worries about Kermit. He is olive tone but I think he is Jewish. He is from NYC after all. :)


.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: pinnah on January 04, 2010, 06:30:04 PM
Gonzo would never text ;)

"Going Green"....definitely a trendy marketing tool of late.
Hopefully the idea
will survive the exploitation.

Feel free to head to the developing world
and check the flutter of said plastic bags

me,
I am heading for the Peoples Forest
devoid of human dregs
thanks to your tax dollars.

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 04, 2010, 07:07:51 PM
Everything doesn't have to be about "what's in it for me".

My original complaint wasn't so much that there wasn't anything in it for me, there's too much in it for the profiteers. Organic, conservation, reducing pollution, recycling etc are all great ideas that big companies distort and diminish in the name of $$$.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 04, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
But this is america and if I want to drive a 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado  with a beer in one hand while texting on my cell thats my right as an american.

For what it's worth I agree with that statement 100%. I also agree that the converse is true - it's defensible and, dare I say, logical for governments to maintain roads with gasoline taxes. The fact that we fund damn near everything with income taxes instead of usage taxes makes no sense to me.

Now I've blatantly crossed the line into politics and I'm sorry if I'm the one who gets y'alls thread locked.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: joelambic on January 04, 2010, 10:01:04 PM
What about the hotels, and their bedding and towel policies? They don't swap bedding during your stay unless you specifically request it, and towels you should reuse. It saves millions of dollars, causes less pollution, and uses less fossil fuels, etc.
In my experience, with the exception of bedding at some extended stay hotels I use when work sends me places, every hotel I've stayed at has swapped towels (and often bedding) even if they tout the reuse towels/bedding policy.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 04, 2010, 10:04:05 PM
As for a road usage tax, what I have a problem with is that we pay income taxes to support roads, so why are they building toll roads everywhere? Are we eventually going to pay for them twice?

I see you're from Texas, so you have income and sales taxes and pay for just about everything twice anyway. ::)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: rabid_dingo on January 04, 2010, 11:33:12 PM
Could the store, (or any store for that matter) save the "hassle" of  having to charge for giving
something away by simply imposing their own "Bring your own bags in policy". "We are no
longer providing bags!"  How much money would the store save by not buying the bags to
distribute any how. Forgot your bags? Damn shame... looks like we'll pile your groceries
in the basket as you brought them up to the cashier and you can pile them in your trunk
the same way....

I know I will open a can of worms, but there is some, however minute, cost to the company
when they begin to charge for previously "Free" items. I know that this is a tax, but I
can see how the stores could start to charge for the bags if the stores are the ones being
taxed for the bags (it could happen). (oh, and even if minute it adds up over time.)

[long winded airline rant about bag fees goes here]

I for one do what I can to make sure I don't get charged for bags. I have used my own bags for
about 3 years now...

I don't like how so many solutions out there would "cost too much" or would hurt the bottom line...

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 05, 2010, 09:35:31 AM
I agree with all of you in varying aspects of this "going green thing".  I think 95% of it is about the money, lining some peoples pockets with it and not the environment.  Its like the commercials for the HSUS showing all the sad looking dogs and cats, it really pee's me off because its about lining an organizations pocketbook more than the animals but sad looking pictures of animals prompts just about anybody to donate.  Yeh I agree animals get mistreated but not as drastically as they portray it.  In fact when they (Congress and PETA) passed a law changing the status of horses from livestock to pets it actually caused more suffering.  But thats another subject as well as political I guess (?) so I'll get off it.   ::)

I think a deposit ought to be put on plastic bags, not another tax.  With a tax you pay it and still throw the damn thing away whereas with a deposit you're more likely to save it and return it for recycling whether that be used again and not have to pay an addtional deposit on new bags or you give it to the store when its torn needing to be melted down and recycled into new bags.  Either way you'd either get your deposit back or fore-go paying another deposit, not to mention there would be a LOT of people out cleaning up bags off the roads, streets, parking lots, etc.   :)  THAT is going green imo... not taxing the shyt out of shoppers so they can spend less on actual products.   ::)  But taxes line the governments pocket so they can spend more, hire more "government workers".  Who is the largest employer in the USA... our government, which produces absolutely Nothing other than more taxes so they can hire more workers so they can tax more so they can....
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: capozzoli on January 05, 2010, 02:57:25 PM
As for a road usage tax, what I have a problem with is that we pay income taxes to support roads, so why are they building toll roads everywhere? Are we eventually going to pay for them twice?

I see you're from Texas, so you have income and sales taxes and pay for just about everything twice anyway. ::)

We have a sales tax, but not state income tax. Of course we pay federal income tax, so yeah we pay twice or with toll roads, 3 times. Actually, with gas tax it's 4 times. This is getting depressing.

Oh man you guys have it made.

I pay federal tax, state tax, city income tax in the town I live in, city wage tax in the city I work in, business privilege tax cause I own the business, then there is sales tax on goods I buy for myself family and property tax. I have it figured out that all in all I pay about sixty percent or more of my income in taxes. What exactly do I get for that?

I realize a civilized society needs taxes but man it is way out of hand.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 05, 2010, 03:37:36 PM

I pay federal tax, state tax, city income tax in the town I live in, city wage tax in the city I work in, business privilege tax cause I own the business, then there is sales tax on goods I buy for myself family and property tax. I have it figured out that all in all I pay about sixty percent or more of my income in taxes. What exactly do I get for that?

I realize a civilized society needs taxes but man it is way out of hand.

What... you don't pay school income tax?  Now there is a ballbreaker... they collect it in addition to the school taxes already in your property taxes.  People will vote everyone deeper and deeper into a hole or The Hole maybe is more correct.  But wait... we're getting off topic... "sort of".  Maybe not when you consider how schools play such an important part in brainwashing children into pandering politics to parents at home.  Its amazing just how much power schools and teachers actually have in everyday life of everyday Americans.  You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.   ;)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: bonjour on January 05, 2010, 04:20:44 PM
Some things in this thread seem to be getting a bit heated.  Can we tone it down a bit before it gets out of control..

Thanks
Fred
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: capozzoli on January 05, 2010, 05:08:08 PM
I dont know about all of this tax BS. But I do know this. Queen aint got nothin on the Muppets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqY
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 05, 2010, 08:07:24 PM
Some things in this thread seem to be getting a bit heated.  Can we tone it down a bit before it gets out of control..

Thanks
Fred

None of it is between members. I think even you could say everyone is passionately AGREEING.
I think the conversation has been very PG so far (I mean c'mon there's MUPPETS in the thread!).
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: boulderbrewer on January 05, 2010, 09:13:57 PM
Capp sounds like you live in WisconSin but you get none of the benifits like the weather!
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 05, 2010, 10:24:03 PM
Capp sounds like you live in WisconSin but you get none of the benifits like the weather!

Weather? I always think more Beer and Cheese when I think of Wisconsin.
Spotted Cow and a tub of Cheese...  :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: boulderbrewer on January 05, 2010, 10:28:29 PM
LOL, near the UP it is more weather!
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 08:24:51 AM
Fred, do you mean because I mentioned schools and teachers?  I didn't mean them personally... but rather the association.  Its a bit ironic with all the other organizations or associations that have been targeted by the government (Reagan and air traffic controllers as an example) being systematically broken... yet the government never strips anything from education.  I agree everyone needs education don't get me wrong, but its like during the prohibition... those organizations are the "untouchables".   They always get what they want or they cause disruption... stopping services such as bussing etc.  They know that the government requires children to attend and if a person doesn't bring their children to school when the bus stops coming that the parents can be in danger of losing their children "under the law".  They could be compared to schoolyard bullies actually. 

I meant no disrespect to any one teacher or school, but to the system itself.  One might say the system resembles communism to some extent.  How much education does the world need really, I've worked with so many people having bachelors degrees working production in factories because there was nothing available in their subject area, and many graduates are even flipping burgers.  I honestly believe people are becoming over educated, there is no demand and there hasn't been for many years.  Not everyone is going to be a rocket scientist or a CEO.

jmo...
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 08:54:36 AM
I agree, its been very civil I think.   ;D  Nobody is taking shots at individuals.   8)

I went to college when I was in my late 30's and I loved it, it opened up my understanding to a lot of question I had.  But I didn't go because it was the thing to do... I went because I wanted too and I had a plan to use the education that could be used in the real world.  While I was there I met a person that was considered a professional student, he had so many degrees it was pathetic, more degrees than those teaching him in fact.  He was a very nice person and could talk to you about any subject you cared, I enjoyed spending time with him.  But he used the system to get all those degrees, tax dollars.  The year before I graduated with my simple associates degree he finally left school and took a position of can you guess what?   A teacher and he was in his mid to late 50's.    :D  All I can say is I hope he taught students that would otherwise have not had the monies to get an education how to get the monies and I hope they use their education in an area of their expertise and not have to flip burgers.  You do realize that he more than likely retired immediately after acquiring his tenure at the school where he took his teaching position and is still drawing some sort of government pension, he had all his ducks in a row that one!!    :D :D

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 09:09:19 AM
I agree, its been very civil I think.   ;D  Nobody is taking shots at individuals.   8)



It's gone like this....
Point A - this is great
Point B - this suxx because...
Point C - yeah but it would be great except for that corporate greed.
Then Capp comes in with the Muppets.

There's nothing wrong with education, there's no such thing as too much of it. But can you use what you learned, and can you overcome the mountain of debt at the end of your education? Bachelor degree is most often minimum entry requirement for almost all white collar jobs, not that you use that knowledge - it's just an arbitrary hurdle to overcome. I guess it proves that you're trainable.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 09:16:49 AM


There's nothing wrong with education, there's no such thing as too much of it. But can you use what you learned, and can you overcome the mountain of debt at the end of your education? Bachelor degree is most often minimum entry requirement for almost all white collar jobs, not that you use that knowledge - it's just an arbitrary hurdle to overcome. I guess it proves that you're trainable.

Agreed, and it should prove expertise in an area also. 

The person I mentioned acquired an expertise in being able to get all those degrees, and I hope he relayed his expertise on to those desiring it as well as inspiring them in the various areas of his education and I'm sure he has.  If I recall correctly, he became a middle school math teacher... the perfect age for children to become inspired as well as begin making a real world plan to attain it.   :)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 09:17:02 AM
Those who can do. Those who can't teach.

Or maybe they get a salary for teaching, grant money for research, do consulting on the side in their specialty, write books that must be bought by all students for a course, write other books that get published, start their own companies using the research they have done at the university, serve on board of directors for other companies with a nice salary for lending their name reputation and expertise to them, travel the world, invest in real estate, drive fancy cars, etc, etc, etc

Maybe I know one of these guys  (not me)
Seems he "do" just fine. ;)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 09:21:28 AM
beerocd... you didn't happen to build the indestructable guitar neck did you?  ... for a famous guitar player?   ??? 
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 09:43:23 AM
Pfft - a one off? No way. I would rather invent "the snuggie" or "Sham-WOW!" and sell millions. That guitar neck would make me a few thousand maybe - but these others would make me millions. But you gotta call now.... ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 09:52:23 AM
Come up with a way to convert plastic grocery bags into fuel for your car.

Hmmm, beer and eggs.... trapped methane?   :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 10:20:09 AM
Come up with a way to convert plastic grocery bags into fuel for your car.

Hmmm, beer and eggs.... trapped methane?   :D

Reminds me of a South Park episode.  :o
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: joelambic on January 06, 2010, 10:39:03 AM
Come up with a way to convert plastic grocery bags into fuel for your car.

Hmmm, beer and eggs.... trapped methane?   :D

Reminds me of a South Park episode.  :o

But had the Simpson's already done it?  :P
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 01:28:48 PM
Being the son of a teacher and being engaged to a teacher, I have to laugh whenever people say any one of a number of the cliche things about those who teach. I've had the close up seat for 25 years of educational battles and nine times out of ten, the teachers lose. In my mom's district they can't strike thanks to state law. If the teachers need to get something changed they have to sue (like my mom and her fellow teachers did to force the district to remove the mold from the school)

There are plenty of bad teachers in the system and plenty of good ones and the way the system is setup now (between the administration, budget cuts, disruptive and lazy students) it kills more good teachers than people can imagine. Last time I checked, the average career expectancy for a new teacher is about the same as an NFL running back - 3 years.

They all hit the class room with an expectation that they're going to make a difference; they're going to reach the kids people say are unreachable only to be ground down by an overwhelming wall of apathy and outright hostility. After a few years of that, they either quit, quietly slog on -  trying to hold their head high and keep some small part of their ideals intact, or they give up and completely disconnect. Despite what anyone may think, it is not easy to stand day after day at the front of a classroom trying to engage, educate and control 30-40 hormonally driven and caffeinated squirrelly kids who'd rather be on the internet or the Xbox.

And while efforts like NCLB are an attempt to hold teachers accountable (and talk to any dedicated teacher about the stifling effect of that law on the classroom and innovative techniques and the ruinous idea of treating kids like a corporate widget to be stamped against a set mold), there's nothing out there that addresses the most important part of the equation - the developmental years between 0 and 5. Appropriate stimulation (and Baby Einstein videos don't count) and engagement during those first years mean more developmentally than any educational efforts down the road. Without that foundation, you could deploy an endless army of Ron Clark's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Clark_%28teacher%29) and make little headway in engagement.

Yes, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. I loved school. (Whatcha expect from a nerd?) I had some top notch teachers at my little "podunk" public school of 2500 (when I was there.. its closer to 6000 now). Yes, there were bad teachers there and I was a smart ass who made their lives "fun", but by and large I made it out with a ton of knowledge. I've seriously considered becoming a teacher because I love educating and getting ideas across, but there's just no way I can justify the grind (my fiancee works longer hours than I do), the heartache and low pay and I don't think I have the internal fortitude to make it through the disappointment.



Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: denny on January 06, 2010, 01:30:29 PM
+ eleventy billion, Drew!
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 01:42:21 PM
Unfortunately, with so many unneeded spending programs being implemented, teachers will once again be left out.

There's money still coming down from the feds for education. A supplemental package last year saved my fiancee's job. The budget cuts were so deep that initially even teachers like her with 5-6 years seniority were on the chopping block.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 06, 2010, 01:55:28 PM
Well said, Drew. I wanted to say something along those lines (my mom and grandfather were teachers) but felt bad about dragging this into the political gutter in the first place.

I really don't get it. Education is EVERYTHING. If we cut everything else, we should give our public schools every penny they ask for and then some. Without education none of the rest is worth a damn. And yes, we should use some of that money to ensure teachers conduct themselves as professionals, but only once we can look in the mirror and admit that they ARE professionals and deserve to be paid as such.

Of course, anyone who disagrees doesn't have to be silent about it. The barriers to entry for a school board election are essentially nonexistent, and most districts would kill for just ONE passionate candidate.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 02:06:46 PM
The thing is that education really shouldn't be something political. (Vain hope I know) I don't care what anyone thinks about how it gets funded as long as it does.

What I don't like is the continual bashing of the profession and the overwhelmingly good intentioned people within it.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 02:17:09 PM
Well said, Drew. I wanted to say something along those lines (my mom and grandfather were teachers) but felt bad about dragging this into the political gutter in the first place.

I really don't get it. Education is EVERYTHING. If we cut everything else, we should give our public schools every penny they ask for and then some. Without education none of the rest is worth a damn. And yes, we should use some of that money to ensure teachers conduct themselves as professionals, but only once we can look in the mirror and admit that they ARE professionals and deserve to be paid as such.

Of course, anyone who disagrees doesn't have to be silent about it. The barriers to entry for a school board election are essentially nonexistent, and most districts would kill for just ONE passionate candidate.

You don't have to get low wages as a teacher - some eventually make six figures. But you gotta put in your time. And as I said in an earlier post (This is Point C) if greed and corruption weren't involved I'd agree on the funding of education. But with all the money being pumped in to the school systems I don't think they're any smarter or learning any better than they were before my last tax increase. But there were some nice raises to be had by all and some monster additions put onto the school.  :-\
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 02:24:51 PM
You don't have to get low wages as a teacher - some eventually make six figures. But you gotta put in your time.

I'd love to know where a teacher can be making six figures from their teaching job. My mom, with over 20 years of seniority, nationally board certified (+ a certain %age to the salary), senior class sponsor, etc make below the median income for her area. Actually, I think that's still the case when you add in her second teaching job as a community college professor.

Even here in California, my fiancees salary is closed to hitting the cap even after only 6 years of teaching.

Now, if you're talking administrators (and that's a whole other credential separate from teaching), then yes you're right. Almost every teacher I know has unkind words for the waste and salaries they see at the district level.

As for the fancy additions at the schools, you should see how long they have to fight for those and how often the funding for them are tied specifically to construction projects and not general funds. (e.g. they can't be used for books/salaries/maintence/etc)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: brewboy on January 06, 2010, 02:35:36 PM
When comparing salaries, don't forget to apply the many vacation days for Christmas, spring break and summer.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 02:37:31 PM
Drew, I don't think its the Profession that gets the bashing, its where the monies actually get spent perhaps?  That and the way some places throw their weight around.  I've raised children and had to drive them to school through the worst weather and road conditions because the school board cut bussing to ensure the mills were passed at the next ballot.  We endured 3 months and yes, the ballot passed, but how it was passed will never be forgotten, not here anyway.  Imagine the congested traffic in a small town with rather large school because laws had been passed to consolidate several schools, save money and offer better education.  The buses did run for sporting events though.

No, I agree with you.  Good teachers are hard to find, those are the ones that will endure, they are their because that is what they yearn to do and they should be compensated well for it.  I'm a firm believer in rewarding those who do well as I am also a firm believer that if someone is doing a job simply because it is another persons wish, stature, just for the money or its deemed a gravy job etc... that those people shouldn't be working those jobs whether it is teaching or any other job.  Profession is strange word which I think is often misused, every job is a profession if the individuals doing them are indeed experts.

When I went to college I was 34 years old, finding a Good math teacher was like finding a Good dentist.  Oh sure there were plenty of professors and all having masters and being certified etc etc. but the quality, commitment and desire to teach, especially teaching  older students which had lost years in doing amu equations... well let's just say there are miles between them.  I went further than I had to in my math because I found a great teacher and couldn't wait to see what problems I could solve.  Miles and miles of difference.  Just because someone can does not mean they should.

We all do what we can, but hopefully we all end up doing what we love.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: bluesman on January 06, 2010, 02:39:10 PM
I'm just trying to figure out how beer, eggs, trapped methane, teacher's salary's and The Muppets has anything to do with going green. Inquiring minds want to know.  ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 02:41:25 PM
Does anybody else have a problem with the text box jumping if they type a message with any length to it on here?  I do and sometimes my words get jumbled up because I the box jumps every keystroke.   :D >:(
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: bluesman on January 06, 2010, 02:42:53 PM
I have that problem quite often. I thought it was something I was doing wrong to cause it to happen.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: Hokerer on January 06, 2010, 02:43:03 PM
Sounds like your PC could do with a lot less caffeine
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 02:44:35 PM
I'm just trying to figure out how beer, eggs, trapped methane, teacher's salary's and The Muppets has anything to do with going green. Inquiring minds want to know.  ;D

DARWINISM ... it evolved.  ;D

green beer
green eggs and ham
your face when you smell methane
$$$
Kermit

makes perfect sense to me!
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 02:45:43 PM
Does anybody else have a problem with the text box jumping if they type a message with any length to it on here?  I do and sometimes my words get jumbled up because I the box jumps every keystroke.   :D >:(

Hit the keys softer, the whole computer won't bounce then.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 02:47:35 PM
I'm just trying to figure out how beer, eggs, trapped methane, teacher's salary's and The Muppets has anything to do with going green. Inquiring minds want to know.  ;D

Well here is another monkey wrench for you then bluesman.... how about eye doctors?!   :D  I dread needing glasses anymore!  

And bluesman, good to know I'm not the only one with a jumping text box.   It only does it here but its an inexpensive board so I guess I can deal with it.  :D  (I almost said cheap but figured that might get taken wrong...  ::)  :D )
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: nicneufeld on January 06, 2010, 02:53:16 PM
Turtles are green!
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 02:55:13 PM
Hey Drew, here is my personal take on teachers.  A good teacher can turn mountains into molehills and a mediocre teacher will turn molehills into mountains.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: Robert on January 06, 2010, 02:55:37 PM
I agree with dean. Education is important, but the quility of education is what's really important. There's a difference between teaching and testing. To me, everything is based off of testing nowadays. A teacher's performance is based soley on how well her/his class does on state mandated testing. That's crap, but with parents becoming less and less involved with their children's education, I guess we have to blame someone, cause it aint the parents (sorry, sarcasm implied)!

And as far as salaries are concerned, sure, teachers should be paid more, but I should be too for what I do. Ain't gonna happen, but pay is not the reason I got into my "profession". I don't think it's a leading factor for many teachers either.

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 02:56:22 PM
Turtles are green!

 :D :D  Thats a good one!!   ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 02:58:57 PM
When comparing salaries, don't forget to apply the many vacation days for Christmas, spring break and summer.

Indeed I don't. Don't forget to add in all the hours spent doing unpaid mandatory activities like sponsoring clubs, tutoring, attending events as ticket takers, etc, etc or the unpaid days at the ends of those vacations when they're expected to be at school, planning and preparing their lessons or catching up with grading, etc. Plus, I'll tell you, the 2 months of no pay are no fun for any teacher. I've felt that first hand!

its where the monies actually get spent perhaps?  

If you want to hear complaints about where the money goes - talk to the teachers. Out here each teacher gets a stipend for their classroom to spend for supplies for the year. The amount? $200. That's for one year for supplying and decorating a room that's used by 120 students. Getting new books is a giant hassle - except of course when the district gets restricted funds and then goes off and buys a slew of books with no teacher input. Sometimes even getting enough desks is impossible and the amount of begging, cajoling and stressing needed to secure that is enough to put someone off their rocker. Forget ever getting enough funds to buy a set of new novels that might interest the kids more. Ironically, its probably easier to get a set of computers for a classroom than books since funds actually get reserved for them.

The games that districts play sometimes are indeed outrageous, but sometimes to get a bond approved that's what they'll need to do. Its not that different than the games I've seen local transportation boards play to pass road bonds. I imagine LA is due for some infrastructure bonds in the wake of all the water main breaks we've seen due to restricted lawn watering pressures.

I'm just trying to figure out how beer, eggs, trapped methane, teacher's salary's and The Muppets has anything to do with going green. Inquiring minds want to know.  ;D

Yeah, we got off topic. I can't help it when teachers get involved though! I suppose we probably ought to shelve it though and I have to say that even in the midst of this heat we've done pretty damn well. I appreciate everyone's points and trust me I would love to cut the districts off at the knees and redirect the funds to the frontline. If I have to read one more story about district management spending tens of thousands of dollars on an executive bathroom (true story from years ago), I'll cry.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 03:00:45 PM
Hey Drew, here is my personal take on teachers.  A good teacher can turn mountains into molehills and a mediocre teacher will turn molehills into mountains.

Honestly, you'd be really surprised. Some of these kids and some of these problems are so intractable that its like trying to put out a forest fire with a garden hose. Most people can only take beating their head against an apathetic wall for so long before passing out and giving up.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 03:01:01 PM
Turtles are green!

 :D :D  Thats a good one!!   ;D
First it can be a pet, then...

(http://shanghaishakedown.typepad.com/shanghaishakedown/images/p1290107.jpg)

then it can be a souvenir.

reduce, reuse, recycle
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 06, 2010, 03:04:36 PM
Does anybody else have a problem with the text box jumping if they type a message with any length to it on here?  I do and sometimes my words get jumbled up because I the box jumps every keystroke.   :D >:(

Sounds like it would have to be a browser and/or OS issue...
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 03:07:43 PM
Its the system Drew, changing it is... well like fighting city hall, or the feds actually.  Now they're going into healthcare too.   :o  

I think its all just a numbers game, first to the moon (question: did it really happen?), highest educated populace, number of graduates per degree, how quickly graduates can be produced, etc. etc.  Just pick a subject and I'm sure the government has their fingers in it and probably way deeper than anyone knows.  Its probably related to budgets, if you don't spend it then you really don't need it so we all know where it goes from there...

Robert, if you get your raise put in a good word for me too eh?   ;) :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: denny on January 06, 2010, 03:11:27 PM
Does anybody else have a problem with the text box jumping if they type a message with any length to it on here?  I do and sometimes my words get jumbled up because I the box jumps every keystroke.   :D >:(

Sounds like it would have to be a browser and/or OS issue...

I use 6 different computers, all running XP Pro and Firefox, to view this forum and I've never had that problem.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: Robert on January 06, 2010, 03:11:53 PM
Will do dean!

We've been promised one for so long now, but it keeps getting cut.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: gail on January 06, 2010, 03:15:44 PM
Drew, thank you a million times over for your eloquent words about teachers and education.
Gail
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 03:17:22 PM
Hey Drew, here is my personal take on teachers.  A good teacher can turn mountains into molehills and a mediocre teacher will turn molehills into mountains.

Honestly, you'd be really surprised. Some of these kids and some of these problems are so intractable that its like trying to put out a forest fire with a garden hose. Most people can only take beating their head against an apathetic wall for so long before passing out and giving up.

I'm sure you're right.  But some of that is because they feel like they are nothing more than cattle being prodded around and told they must do this or that when a good many of them Know they will never get beyond their current situation in life regardless of How Much they learn.  We all do things our employers tell us to do even though we know its bullshyt... some education is the same way... but teachers are subject to playing the game just as we are.  Kids aren't stupid, and they know who/what is the real deal they just can't do anything about it.

I seriously mean No Disrespect to Teachers, I hope you know that.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: nicneufeld on January 06, 2010, 03:19:20 PM
Does anybody else have a problem with the text box jumping if they type a message with any length to it on here?  I do and sometimes my words get jumbled up because I the box jumps every keystroke.   :D >:(

Sounds like it would have to be a browser and/or OS issue...

I use 6 different computers, all running XP Pro and Firefox, to view this forum and I've never had that problem.

XP Pro and XP Home, SP3, and IE8 (possibly IE7), and I experience it regularly.  It occurs once your post goes beyond the text box, each new line is hidden.  Doing it right now!  :D  At least it helps me be less longwinded (a plot perhaps?  ;) ).
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: nicneufeld on January 06, 2010, 03:27:15 PM
It probably would sound almost trollish of me to mention it, but I'd be in favor of scrapping government schools, at least from the federal level.  At the state and local level I'm a lot more in favor of government education.  I'm also a skeptic/unbeliever/infidel as regards AGW, to make matters worse for me.  To quote Python (after Cleese in a vox pop lays out his plan to fight poverty with bombs, machine guns, and vultures) "I know these views aren't popular, but I have never courted popularity."

But I think teachers are way cool!  :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 06, 2010, 03:28:25 PM
XP Pro and XP Home, SP3, and IE8 (possibly IE7), and I experience it regularly.  It occurs once your post goes beyond the text box, each new line is hidden.  Doing it right now!  :D  At least it helps me be less longwinded (a plot perhaps?  ;) ).

If the text box isn't scrolling, that's definitely the browser or OS.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 06, 2010, 03:29:38 PM
first to the moon (question: did it really happen?)

Aaaand there goes the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 06, 2010, 03:40:01 PM
first to the moon (question: did it really happen?)

Aaaand there goes the neighborhood.

 :D ;D

Okay so what about my browser or operating system... how can I tell or check if thats the problem?  If it is then how do I fix it?   ???  I am Not a computer guru.   :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 06, 2010, 03:45:15 PM
First step would be to try a different browser and see if it still happens. The only post I've seen that mentions it is IE... is that what you're using? If so, try Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, etc.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: uthristy on January 06, 2010, 04:16:38 PM
If so, try Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, etc.
My fav. browser> K-Meleon 1.5.3 (http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/)  on Windows 7 Ultimate  is so dang fast  ;D

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: tubercle on January 06, 2010, 05:12:15 PM
first to the moon (question: did it really happen?)

 You say moon but I think you really mean that multi-million $$$ movie made in Arizona? Or was it New Mexico? I forget.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: bluesman on January 06, 2010, 05:36:28 PM
Does anybody else have a problem with the text box jumping if they type a message with any length to it on here?  I do and sometimes my words get jumbled up because I the box jumps every keystroke.   :D >:(

Sounds like it would have to be a browser and/or OS issue...

I use 6 different computers, all running XP Pro and Firefox, to view this forum and I've never had that problem.

XP Pro and XP Home, SP3, and IE8 (possibly IE7), and I experience it regularly.  It occurs once your post goes beyond the text box, each new line is hidden.  Doing it right now!  :D  At least it helps me be less longwinded (a plot perhaps?  ;) ).

Thanks Nick...I knew it wasn't just Dean and I.  8)

...and yes it is doing it right now for me too.  :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 10:01:37 PM
first to the moon (question: did it really happen?)

 You say moon but I think you really mean that multi-million $$$ movie made in Arizona? Or was it New Mexico? I forget.

Got a link for that? It never happening is fascinating to me. Why will it take us another decade to do something we did four decades ago with less technology than our kids video games? I just want the link - not to take this "green" thread down another stray path.

I think this might be my favorite thread. :D Only a few more posts to hit 10 pages.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 06, 2010, 10:36:36 PM
Why will it take us another decade to do something we did four decades ago with less technology than our kids video games?

Because the Saturn IB/V was a meticulously engineered, hand-built, ground-breaking piece of technology, and most of the people who built them are retired or dead? And that even with most of the material, economic, and sociopolitical resources of a *planet* devoted to making it succeed, none of them functioned flawlessly, and two out of twenty failed spectacularly?

Truth be told, if money was no object, we could have a man on the moon six months from the word go. We haven't been back because collectively, for better or for worse, we don't want to.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 06, 2010, 10:54:40 PM

 we don't want to.

we don't want to?

To be honest, it isn't so much can we hit the moon with a rocket, I think we're good at that. Can we put a couple of humans on the moon, safely? That's the trick I want to see. Step out in their shiny suits, play golf, ride around in a moon buggy - and then come back home. Maybe they can come up with some space fireworks to shoot off from the moon to finally stifle all nonbelievers.

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: rabid_dingo on January 06, 2010, 11:40:49 PM
first to the moon (question: did it really happen?)

Yes it did! Why fake 9 landings? Why didn't the USSR dispute it with everyone that did dispute it.? But it reminds me of a conversation with Nikki. She firmly believed that it was staged and would argue to the end. But when Mars actually did its close flyby a few years back she mistook the red light on the radio tower at the fire station as Mars. She was interesting to say the least.

Why will it take us another decade to do something we did four decades ago with less technology than our kids video games?

Because the Saturn IB/V was a meticulously engineered, hand-built, ground-breaking piece of technology, and most of the people who built them are retired or dead? And that even with most of the material, economic, and sociopolitical resources of a *planet* devoted to making it succeed, none of them functioned flawlessly, and two out of twenty failed spectacularly?

Truth be told, if money was no object, we could have a man on the moon six months from the word go. We haven't been back because collectively, for better or for worse, we don't want to.

I think this brings us back to the teachers, back then they taught real skills Math, Science, Geography. The computing power or most of the rockets that went into orbit or beyond had less computing power than a calculator watch (some today might ask what is a calculator watch) But to have some guys recalculate some serious re-routes in space, with pencil and paper and get some boys home. That is spec-freakin-damn-tacular!

The idea that texting is killing language (not specific to English) is killing me. My biggest pet peeve is the T in often, IT IS SILENT!

Discuss.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dbeechum on January 06, 2010, 11:48:44 PM
The idea that texting is killing language (not specific to English) is killing me.

Both the English teachers in my life complain about the same thing. Its so bad that they have to repeatedly tell their students "no text speak" for the first couple of weeks. And let's not even touch on what I see doing my job.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 07, 2010, 06:30:09 AM
Hmmm... languages being lost, Darwinism... I think we should look into "who" the space aliens that have been abducting people and mutilating cattle might actually be.  Could it be us coming Back from The Future, looking for something we lost?   ;D  And to think it all started with a damn plastic bag!!!  :D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: brewboy on January 07, 2010, 07:11:00 AM
My son was very much into computers in high school, in fact he was MCSE certifed by the time he graduated. He had learned to type extremely fast (better that 100 WPM) by using a 3-4 finger approach. He had to take typing, which required that he type, at I think 30 WPM. The teacher would not pass him, even though he typed over 3X the required speed, because he didn't use the home keys.  We even went before the administration and they backed the teacher. How #$%&ing stupid is that? So, he learned the home key, bull$hit way, passed his test and today he types with his own approach. What's funny is that he taught his method to some of his friends and they type faster that way. I understand rules, but you have to use common sense and I see less of that everyday in public schools.

Oh, and for the record, he isn't in IT, He graduated with a finance degree, because he got tired of everyone calling him to fix their computers. He decided he didn't want to do that the rest of his life. He still handles a keyboard the same way and I would be happy to type at half his speed.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 07, 2010, 07:34:44 AM
The idea that texting is killing language (not specific to English) is killing me.

Both the English teachers in my life complain about the same thing. Its so bad that they have to repeatedly tell their students "no text speak" for the first couple of weeks. And let's not even touch on what I see doing my job.

Methinks thou doth protest too much. Why is it exactly that we don't speak in that manner anymore? All languages evolve over time. I'm not saying for the better, but things change. Just like the Spanish you learn in school is totally useless on the street.

Does anyone wear suits anymore? Do you think we'll ever go back to the Mertz suits? That's another evolution I'm not sure I care for, Dockers and a Polo (in a plastic bag).  :P
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 07, 2010, 09:15:21 AM
He had to take typing, which required that he type, at I think 30 WPM. The teacher would not pass him, even though he typed over 3X the required speed, because he didn't use the home keys.  We even went before the administration and they backed the teacher.

Just goes to show that sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks I guess.  What is the 3-4 method?  I'd be interested to learn it just so I could do it, not that I need to but why not if it makes things quicker and easier?   ;D  For what its worth... some people still think we went to the moon passing through a powerful radiation belt in craft made of some magical extremely light alloy... all built by the lowest bidder(s).    :D ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 07, 2010, 09:22:54 AM
He had to take typing, which required that he type, at I think 30 WPM. The teacher would not pass him, even though he typed over 3X the required speed, because he didn't use the home keys.  We even went before the administration and they backed the teacher.

Just goes to show that sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks I guess.  What is the 3-4 method?  I'd be interested to learn it just so I could do it, not that I need to but why not if it makes things quicker and easier?   ;D  For what its worth... some people still think we went to the moon passing through a powerful radiation belt in craft made of some magical extremely light alloy... all built by the lowest bidder(s).    :D ;D

I think we all know the DVORAK keyboard layout is the most efficient layout out there - WHY do we never switch? At some point there should be a cutoff(in schools) and there's a new way and an old way and we convert to DVORAK and eventually we do things the efficient way. And then we take the old keyboards, put em in plastic bags and throw em out to be recycled. :D
(see you gotta tie back into the thread somehow.)
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: tubercle on January 07, 2010, 09:30:06 AM
  I can type 30wpm using the hunt-n-peck method.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 07, 2010, 10:52:22 AM
some people still think we went to the moon passing through a powerful radiation belt in craft made of some magical extremely light alloy... all built by the lowest bidder(s).

Actually, most people think that. SOME people think it was shot on a sound stage in Las Vegas, with JFK directing and the Bavarian Illuminati as grips, but in forty years none of them have produced any evidence.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: nicneufeld on January 07, 2010, 11:00:38 AM
I think we all know the DVORAK keyboard layout is the most efficient layout out there - WHY do we never switch?

For the same reason that we aren't all speaking esperanto!   ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: tubercle on January 07, 2010, 11:31:10 AM
some people still think we went to the moon passing through a powerful radiation belt in craft made of some magical extremely light alloy... all built by the lowest bidder(s).

Actually, most people think that. SOME people think it was shot on a sound stage in Las Vegas, with JFK directing and the Bavarian Illuminati as grips, but in forty years none of them have produced any evidence.

  I used to get a kick out of my grandfather during the launches in the 60's. In one breath he would declare it was all a fake and a scam by the government and man was not going to the Moon. In the next breath he would complain that every time they sent a rocket to the Moon it would mess up the weather.

  I was like "Dang Grandpa, which is it, are they or are they not up there?" He would get mad as hell at me ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: brewboy on January 07, 2010, 11:41:14 AM
Does anyone think they brought back the moon rocks in a Wal-Mart plastic grocery bag?
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: nicneufeld on January 07, 2010, 12:51:09 PM
Space travel isn't green.  Contributes to Anthropogenic Galactic Warming.

Space travellers, however, are at least rumored to be green.  Some of them at least, such as the Vogons.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: bluesman on January 07, 2010, 01:02:22 PM
This salad is a healthy and delicious meal. Wakame is a seaweed available in Asian grocery stores. It is also used in miso soup.


 
Main Ingredients:

Dried Wakame seaweed: 3/4 ounce (20 grams)
Sesame seeds: 1 tbsp
Red chili pepper flakes: 1/2 tsp
Rice vinegar: 3 tbsp
Soy sauce: 1-2 tbsp
Sugar: 1/2-1 tbsp

Directions:

1. Soak dried seaweed in cold water for 20 minutes or until soften. Drain and cut off any hard spine. Chop and set aside.

2. Mix soy sauce, rice vinegar and sugar together well. Taste and adjust the soy sauce and sugar.

3. Pour the dressing over seaweed and mix.

4. Sprinkle sesame seeds and red pepper flakes over the salad, and serve.

(http://www.1001recipe.com/recipes/food/wakame_seaweed_salad/wakame_seaweed_salad_main.jpg)


 ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: beerocd on January 07, 2010, 04:17:52 PM
To mix it up you put it in a plastic bag and shake it like ... uh salad.

WRT esperanto - it failed because there were too many Beavis and Butthead moments like this...
Kiel vi fartas? which is actually "how are you" but you can imagine....

Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: rabid_dingo on January 07, 2010, 11:34:59 PM
Space travel isn't green.  Contributes to Anthropogenic Galactic Warming.

Space travellers, however, are at least rumored to be green.  Some of them at least, such as the Vogons.

They (space travellers) use a towel for a myriad of duties, lunch box/plate, blanket, sheild, towel. We could learn from the Vogons, No HINI on payphones...or maybe an evolution could be Hieney infected cellular phones or library keyboards...

Wait...Vogons...all I can think of is yellow.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: a10t2 on January 08, 2010, 12:15:04 AM
All I can think of is a hyperintelligent shade of the color blue.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: nicneufeld on January 08, 2010, 06:34:28 AM
All I can think of is a hyperintelligent shade of the color blue.

You mean the Hooloovoos.  Vogons are rarely described as hyperintelligent...hyperbureaucratic perhaps.  Signed in triplicate, buried in soft peat, etc.
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: dean on January 08, 2010, 08:15:15 AM
Space travel isn't green.  Contributes to Anthropogenic Galactic Warming.

Space travellers, however, are at least rumored to be green.  Some of them at least, such as the Vogons.

Apparently some of these aliens want to help mankind, the orange ones in the movie by SK... was it Dreamcatcher??  But in the same movie the gray ones only wanted to invade and use our bodies to as hatcheries for their young offspring.   :o  I think the gray ones brought thin plastic shopping bags whereas the orange ones showed us how to make space bags.  Probably for some long journey to a distant planet so we could take clothes and whatnot using less space.  I store grains in mine occassionally.   ;D
Title: Re: Going Green?
Post by: uthristy on January 09, 2010, 09:22:40 AM
Lets not forget some of these aliens apparently  just want do some **** probing. :o :o