Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: astrivian on July 26, 2011, 07:11:20 PM

Title: Coriander question
Post by: astrivian on July 26, 2011, 07:11:20 PM
So, i am growing my own fresh coriander in the back yard so i can make a nice tripel. What is a good amount of the seed to use in a 5 gallon batch? Also, do you crush them or leave them whole? Do you add to the boil, and if so how long?

I am excited too: This will be my second AG attempt. This recipe, which has changed a bunch, was the first beer i ever brewed (it was horrible, got infected). That was four years ago and now i know a lot more about what i am doing.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: Jimmy K on July 26, 2011, 07:52:33 PM
I use 1/2 oz of coriander in my recipes - crushed. Crush a few seeds and smell them. They should be pretty pungent and lemony. If they are subtle, use a little more.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: mabrungard on July 26, 2011, 09:12:45 PM
Indian Coriander has a lemony character and typically has a smoother yellow coat.  Mexican or Morrocan Coriander is more peppery and typically has a rough brown coat.  I've tried both in Wits and have to admit that I prefer the peppery notes in my Wits.  I think the orange peel offers a nice citrus note and a lemony note is not so needed.  An ounce of either Coriander is going to provide a notable contribution.  I typically add in the last few minutes of the boil.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: denny on July 26, 2011, 09:49:47 PM
So, i am growing my own fresh coriander in the back yard so i can make a nice tripel. What is a good amount of the seed to use in a 5 gallon batch? Also, do you crush them or leave them whole? Do you add to the boil, and if so how long?

I am excited too: This will be my second AG attempt. This recipe, which has changed a bunch, was the first beer i ever brewed (it was horrible, got infected). That was four years ago and now i know a lot more about what i am doing.

The correct amount of coriander for a tripel is none.  It can work well in several styles, but if you want to make a real tripel, leave it out.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: jaybeerman on July 26, 2011, 10:14:35 PM
So, i am growing my own fresh coriander in the back yard so i can make a nice tripel. What is a good amount of the seed to use in a 5 gallon batch? Also, do you crush them or leave them whole? Do you add to the boil, and if so how long?

I am excited too: This will be my second AG attempt. This recipe, which has changed a bunch, was the first beer i ever brewed (it was horrible, got infected). That was four years ago and now i know a lot more about what i am doing.

The correct amount of coriander for a tripel is none.  It can work well in several styles, but if you want to make a real tripel, leave it out.

Unless you're talking about tripel karmeliet  ;) 
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: EHall on July 26, 2011, 11:48:41 PM
I'm not sure if you need to dry it first... I've never heard of anyone using fresh coriander... but taste it. If you know what variety you're growing, even better... but taste it and adjust from there.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: nateo on July 27, 2011, 01:49:10 AM
I've used coriander a number of times, and gotten a weird soapy flavor from it sometimes in high levels. It tastes like lemon dish soap smells unless I use only a very small amount. I would use like 1g / L.  

Also, wouldn't fresh coriander just taste like cilantro?
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: denny on July 27, 2011, 02:18:55 AM
Unless you're talking about tripel karmeliet  ;) 

Ya know, as much as I enjoy and appreciate that beer, I guess I kinda consider it an outlier.  When I think of tripel, I think of Westmalle.  Call me narrrow minded....
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: richardt on July 27, 2011, 02:35:45 AM
Astrivian,
If you're brewing for your own pleasure--by all means give it a try if that's your desire.
Many new brewers, myself included, tend to get a little crazy with experimentation, especially with the spices.
Use it sparingly--you should barely be able to taste it if you do it right.
If you use too much, you can't undo it, and you'll get tired of that beer quickly

If you're brewing for competitions, then don't use the coriander for the tripels; they don't belong there.
Use them in the Belgian Wits.  There are a lot of great recipes out there.  Randy Mosher's book, Radical Brewing, has a great chapter [15] on Belgian beers, the use of spices like coriander, and several Wit recipes.  Check it out.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: astrivian on July 27, 2011, 02:41:54 AM
Really none? Hmm, i always thought tripels had coriander in them. Maybe i will do a wit then :)
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: denny on July 27, 2011, 03:11:21 AM
Really none? Hmm, i always thought tripels had coriander in them. Maybe i will do a wit then :)

It's not like it's never done, but not usually...

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style18.php#1c (http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style18.php#1c)
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: punatic on July 27, 2011, 03:22:08 AM
I make a corriander lager that is an Oktoberfest with 2 oz. of cracked whole seeds per 5 gallons added to the wort when heat is removed at the end of the boil.  It is left behind when the wort is transfered out of the kettle.  I've been making this lager for 20 years.  It is one of my most requested/popular homebrews.  The flavor the corriander contributes to the beer is nothing like the smell of the freshly crushed seeds.  It is also thought to reduce the affects of oxidation on the finished beer.

I grow my own corriander too.   
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: jaybeerman on July 27, 2011, 04:00:20 AM
Ya know, as much as I enjoy and appreciate that beer, I guess I kinda consider it an outlier.  When I think of tripel, I think of Westmalle.  Call me narrrow minded....

was just yanking your chain...it is ridiculously good but not what I'd call a (normal) tripel either. 

just for the record, i love coriander and use it in three different styles.

nateo, there's two kinds of people in this world - those who think coriander and cilantro taste like soap and those who...don't.  Basically, it's genetic and is based on your perception of phenylthiocarbamide (if you want the cheap explanation look it up on wikiped).
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: uthristy on July 27, 2011, 01:23:58 PM
I find tripel karmeliet to be sickly sweet, ugh
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on July 27, 2011, 04:20:18 PM
Also, wouldn't fresh coriander just taste like cilantro?
AFAIK, the word 'coriander' in the US means the seeds and the word 'cilantro' means the leaves.  But IIRC, in the UK and maybe other places, the word 'coriander' means the leaves and I don't know what word they use for the seeds.

In any case, the seeds and the leaves are a totally different flavor.  I can't imagine what a beer with cilantro would taste like, it sounds gross but then I'm not a big fan of cilantro.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: denny on July 27, 2011, 05:02:35 PM
I can't imagine what a beer with cilantro would taste like, it sounds gross but then I'm not a big fan of cilantro.


I AM a big fan of cilantro, and I still think it sounds gross!
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: SpanishCastleAle on July 27, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
I can't imagine what a beer with cilantro would taste like, it sounds gross but then I'm not a big fan of cilantro.


I AM a big fan of cilantro, and I still think it sounds gross!
Seems like it would give a new meaning to the phrase 'lawnmowing beer'. :D
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: astrivian on July 27, 2011, 07:25:28 PM
It just dawned on me where i got the coriander and trippel idea: New Belgium's trippel has coriander in it (they say it on the bottle). So i just thought that is how trippels were brewed.

In that situation, i may yet add coriander to my trippel (less than NB added however).

I am on the fence about the cilantro though. It MAY be good in very very very small amounts. I hate cilantro but am willing to entertain the idea. Speaking of which, Saison du Buff is a good one to try for herbs. It has rosemary, parsley, and something (thyme?) in it. It would be really good with Italian food. Maybe a cilantro beer would be good with some fajitas. Someone else try it though, i don't want to contaminate my stuff :)
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: gordonstrong on July 27, 2011, 07:38:06 PM
I think Rochefort puts coriander in all their beers, albeit in trace amounts (I think it's them; either them or Westmalle).

I don't see anything wrong with it, except if you make it smell like a witbier.  If you can recognize the spice, I think you added too much.  Background complexity is what you should be thinking.

If you start spicing it up, you should probably just call it an Artisanal Blond instead.

Achouffe uses some herbs in their beers, but they live in the woods.  Personally, I think cilantro sounds like a horrible idea.  I think it would come across more as vegetal than salsa-like.  Split off part of your batch and try it as a small experiment.  Like grab some wort at knockout, steep your herbs, then ferment separately, like in a growler.  Compare side by side.  Blend with the original if you need to dilute it.  See if you like it.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: jeffy on July 27, 2011, 09:17:44 PM
Charlie P. wrote something once about coriander limiting the amount of staling from oxidation.  I don't remember that he did any experiments, just observations about the longevity of his beers with the spice added.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: blatz on July 27, 2011, 09:29:13 PM
Charlie P. wrote something once about coriander limiting the amount of staling from oxidation.  I don't remember that he did any experiments, just observations about the longevity of his beers with the spice added.

I don't doubt it - I found a 2.5gal keg of a toasted oatmeal wit that I did over a year and a half ago that sat under my stairs at 75df. was going to dump it, but figured I'd chill it and hook up a tap and see what it was like before the drain got it.  suprisingly, it isn't stale or old at all and its actually not bad - a little over-dry, but good.  Only one data point, but I can see it working.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: hoser on July 27, 2011, 09:37:02 PM
Charlie P. wrote something once about coriander limiting the amount of staling from oxidation.  I don't remember that he did any experiments, just observations about the longevity of his beers with the spice added.

I thought it was cinnamon added to the mash to prevent staling from oxidation, if I am not mistaken? 
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: bluesman on July 27, 2011, 09:43:33 PM
I recently had a Tripel Karmeliet on draught at Monk's Cafe in Philly, and it was one of the best Tripels I think I've ever tasted. There are hints of coriander in the flavor and aroma. It had a mild sweetness but was balanced by the citrus, soice and alcohol.  I'd love to clone that beer.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: tschmidlin on July 27, 2011, 11:15:26 PM
Also, wouldn't fresh coriander just taste like cilantro?
AFAIK, the word 'coriander' in the US means the seeds and the word 'cilantro' means the leaves.  But IIRC, in the UK and maybe other places, the word 'coriander' means the leaves and I don't know what word they use for the seeds.
The furners in my neighborhood use coriander to refer to both the leaves and the seeds.


In any case, the seeds and the leaves are a totally different flavor.  I can't imagine what a beer with cilantro would taste like, it sounds gross but then I'm not a big fan of cilantro.
I think it sounds nice if the flavor comes through, but the oils in cilantro are really delicate and volatile.  You don't see dried cilantro in the spice aisle much, and you typically don't see it cooked in recipes, it is thrown in at the end or sprinkled on top at serving.

If you were going to do it I would put them in secondary only, I think throwing the in the boil would be a mistake.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: jeffy on July 27, 2011, 11:26:36 PM
Charlie P. wrote something once about coriander limiting the amount of staling from oxidation.  I don't remember that he did any experiments, just observations about the longevity of his beers with the spice added.

I thought it was cinnamon added to the mash to prevent staling from oxidation, if I am not mistaken? 
I tried to do a search for it and found both cinnamon and coriander references with regard to staling.  The one I remember reading had to do with coriander.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: punatic on July 28, 2011, 01:22:05 AM
Charlie P. wrote something once about coriander limiting the amount of staling from oxidation.  I don't remember that he did any experiments, just observations about the longevity of his beers with the spice added.

Seems like I remember something about corriander in the 1994 Special Issue of Zymurgy.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: Will's Swill on July 28, 2011, 02:30:48 AM
You are indeed correct.  I happen to be actively reading that particular issue in my, er, reading room right now - I bought a bunch of back issues off of CraigsList.  The article does mention using coriander to prevent HSA and oxidation, though no supporting evidence is given.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: 1vertical on July 28, 2011, 01:53:39 PM
I have good results putting corriander thru the mill with the grist then mashing using larger amounts...1/2 cup....

But then I enjoy the flavor....  :o
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: morticaixavier on July 28, 2011, 02:36:19 PM
You are indeed correct.  I happen to be actively reading that particular issue in my, er, reading room right now - I bought a bunch of back issues off of CraigsList.  The article does mention using coriander to prevent HSA and oxidation, though no supporting evidence is given.

Right Now? is that PWP (posting while... well you get the idea)
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: punatic on July 28, 2011, 05:00:27 PM
You are indeed correct.  I happen to be actively reading that particular issue in my, er, reading room right now - I bought a bunch of back issues off of CraigsList.  The article does mention using coriander to prevent HSA and oxidation, though no supporting evidence is given.

Right Now? is that PWP (posting while... well you get the idea)

Ain't iPads wonderful!  (However, this is not a PWP)
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: nateo on July 28, 2011, 05:36:01 PM

Ain't iPads wonderful!  (However, this is not a PWP)

Note to self: never touch punatic's iPad.
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: punatic on July 29, 2011, 05:10:45 PM
No worries.  I never PWP, I only RWP, and disable the webcam while.   ;D
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: narcout on July 29, 2011, 05:43:21 PM
I recently had a Tripel Karmeliet on draught at Monk's Cafe in Philly, and it was one of the best Tripels I think I've ever tasted. There are hints of coriander in the flavor and aroma. It had a mild sweetness but was balanced by the citrus, soice and alcohol.  I'd love to clone that beer.

Northern Brewer has an extract clone kit.  I converted it to all grain and adjusted the recipe a bit for my system.  I have it on tap right now, and it's pretty tasty (I haven't done a side by side yet so I'm not sure how close it is to the real thing).

10.5 lbs Belgian Pils
.75 lbs wheat malt
.75 lbs oat malt (couldn't get this at my LHBS so I used all flaked - next time I'll order online and get the malted oats)
.5 lbs flaked barley
.5 lbs flaked wheat
.5 lbs flaked oats
2 lbs cane sugar

1 oz Styrian Goldings - FWH
.25 oz Saaz - 60 min
.75 oz Saaz - 15 min
.5 oz coriander - flameout

Wyeast 3522 (LHBS was out so I used White Labs 550 instead)

Mash 148 for 90 minutes

Oxygenate 90 seconds, pitch yeast at 63, let rise to low 70's
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: Will's Swill on July 31, 2011, 01:53:01 PM
No worries.  I never PWP, I only RWP, and disable the webcam while.   ;D

Really didn't mean to hijack the thread, especially in this direction, but I just heard on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" that 35% of smart phone users will drop at least one phone in the toilet.  So be careful, punatic.   ;)
Title: Re: Coriander question
Post by: punatic on July 31, 2011, 02:33:54 PM
No worries.  I never PWP, I only RWP, and disable the webcam while.   ;D

Really didn't mean to hijack the thread, especially in this direction, but I just heard on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" that 35% of smart phone users will drop at least one phone in the toilet.  So be careful, punatic.   ;)

No worries, I've got it covered.   ;)