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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: skyler on August 08, 2011, 03:53:14 PM

Title: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: skyler on August 08, 2011, 03:53:14 PM
So I harvested some hops that were ready to be picked from my 3 cascade vines yesterday, and I plan to use them today in an American Amber Ale. The recipe is pretty simple (6 gal). Just 2-row, Domestic light Munich, some British Medium Crystal, and a little carafa special III. I am shooting for an OG around 1.050 and about 45 IBUs coming from a 60 min shot of Magnum and some Glacier FWH. I was planning on using my 8.7 oz of fresh cascades for aroma. Would it be better if I used them at 5 min or 0 min? And am I right that wet hops are basically 75-80% water and so my 8.7 oz is more like 2 oz of dry hops?
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: tschmidlin on August 08, 2011, 07:10:27 PM
There is no such thing as wet hops unless it has been raining.

Fresh hops should be used at a rate of ~5x the weight of dried hops.  Add them whenever you like.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: jaybeerman on August 08, 2011, 07:42:32 PM
Yes you're right on the moisture content.  I've used 5-6 times my regular addition size with good results.  As far as the 5 or 0 minutes, it's my personal opinion that yes they're good at 5 and 0.  cheers, j
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: a10t2 on August 08, 2011, 08:55:57 PM
I really doubt you can tell the difference between 5 min and 0 min additions. *Maybe* if you use an immersion chiller with no hot stand/whirlpool.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: skyler on August 08, 2011, 09:36:50 PM
So I shifted the recipe a little bit...

8 lbs Gambrinus Pils (didn't feel like opening a new sack of 2-row)
3 lbs Gambrinus Munich 10L
1 lb Thomas Fawcett Medium Crystal (65L)
1 oz Carafa Special III

14g (.5 oz) Magnum (17% AA) Whole 90 min
20g (.7 oz) Cascade (5.3% AA) Pellet 30 min
30g (1.06 oz) Glacier (5.6% AA) Whole 10 min
247g (8.7 oz) Fresh-picked Cascade (??% AA) flameout ~ 50-57g (1.75-2 oz) Dry Cascade Whole

Mash at 150F for 60 min

Boil 90 min

WLP001 Slurry

Not accounting for hop age-related AA loss, Tinseth puts my beer at 45 IBU. I suppose the whole point of the "fresh hops" is to get aroma from them, so I think a flameout addition would make the most sense, though I would prefer to have enough hops for both. I am going to let them steep a good 5-10 min before I chill the wort (IC), to get the maximum effect.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 08, 2011, 10:13:43 PM
Why not chill to 180F, turn off the chiller, put the hops in and let them steep for 10 minutes, turn on the chiller.  You will drive off some of the essential oils, but not all this way.

Some of the essential oils have low flash points, <100F.  That is where dry hopping comes in.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: gmac on August 09, 2011, 03:22:05 AM
Not trying to be funny... Can you "Dry" hop with them? 
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2011, 05:11:03 AM
You can certainly dry hop with fresh hops.  The same applies, you'll want to use ~5x as much.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: skyler on August 09, 2011, 06:48:44 AM
Despite adjusting my mill from .03" to .035" to lower efficiency and aid in lautering, I still got 80% in this one (lautered like a dream, though, so I am keeping this setting), so I ended up at 1.059, which was a pinch higher than I had hoped for (1.054-1.057). But with 45 IBUs, I suppose a 1.059 OG is pretty appropriate. This was my first go at using Bru'n water, too, and I really liked it. Hopefully I struck the right balance.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: cfleisher on August 13, 2011, 01:42:50 AM
The comment about chilling to 180 is excellent...never considered that. I know everyone says that you can dry hop with homegrown hops, but to be honest, I haven't had much luck. Last year, I split a batch in two -- same exact pale ale, with 3 gallons done without the dry hops and the other 3 gallons done with them. The latter came out a bit sour, and I was pretty careful with my sanitation. For what it's worth.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: skyler on August 13, 2011, 09:19:24 PM
I just thought I would add that a club I am joining soon is doing a "low cost competition" where every beer has to be over 1.045 OG, at least 80% grain, and brewed with less than $17 worth of ingredients per 5 gallons (not including water or gas/electricity/propane). I deduced that this one is:

$4.80 pilsner malt
$1.96 munich malt
$0.82 crystal malt
$0.11 carafa special III
$0.63 Magnum
$0.71 Cascade
$0.74 Glacier
$0.20 shipping
$0.00 free Brewpub yeast
$0.00 free homegrown hops (it was decided that homegrown hops were considered "free")

That puts me at $9.96 for a 1.059 beer for this one.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: noisycricket on October 05, 2011, 01:19:34 AM
I gotta say... I love you guys, and this site.

I'm about to pick my cascade hops, first harvest ever, right now, and I was wondering if I have to dry them before brewing.  A quick search and BAM, all the sudden I'm "In the Know".

Thanks!
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: davidgzach on October 05, 2011, 01:17:35 PM
This is my first harvest year as well.  I'm wondering if there are benefits to using fresh hops versus letting them dry out?  Higher AA? 
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: bluesman on October 05, 2011, 01:40:07 PM
Never tried a fresh hopped beer but they should lend, for lack of a better word, a fresher or greener flavor. Drying hops will slightly oxidize the hops during the drying process therefore muting some of the fresh oils and resins. I would like to do a side by side tasting. Although it can be a challenge to estimate the appropriate amount of fresh hops to add vs. traditionally dried hops or hop pellets.
Title: Re: When to Use Fresh Hops
Post by: morticaixavier on October 05, 2011, 02:35:38 PM
Never tried a fresh hopped beer but they should lend, for lack of a better word, a fresher or greener flavor. Drying hops will slightly oxidize the hops during the drying process therefore muting some of the fresh oils and resins. I would like to do a side by side tasting. Although it can be a challenge to estimate the appropriate amount of fresh hops to add vs. traditionally dried hops or hop pellets.

on the other hand, the same oxidation will enhance other flavours/aromas that we think of when we think of hops.