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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: kylekohlmorgen on August 08, 2011, 07:10:35 PM

Title: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 08, 2011, 07:10:35 PM
Anyone ever attempt this?

I would like to try this to get more cooling out of my immersion chillers (2 in series - one in ice bath). Right now I'm only getting down to about 95-100F.

I have pretty low water pressure at my house - will also help during clean up!
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: Jimmy K on August 08, 2011, 07:16:56 PM
The pump should help pull the water through your water lines and therefore boost pressure.  I haven't done it, but I've used a pump to push ice water through my chiller when I didn't have a hose available.  I think pumping the ice water through is easier than trying to cool the chill water with ice.  Just make sure the pump can't suck in any ice cubes.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: mabrungard on August 08, 2011, 07:34:05 PM
A March pump will not boost the pressure.  The shut-off head (no flow) is either 4.3 or 12.1 feet.  That is very little pressure.  A typical desirable municipal water pressure is about 60 psi which is 138 feet of head.  Even a house with poor water pressure is probably experiencing at least 30 psi (69 feet of head).
 
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 08, 2011, 07:41:29 PM
Martin beat me to it.

The 809HS I have gives a 12 ft head, that is about 5 PSI or so. 
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 08, 2011, 08:01:03 PM
*duh*

Guess I could have checked the nameplate/curve...

I'm still lacking in the cooling dept. Whats my best/cheapest option for a cooling upgrade?

 - Modified keg (need bottom valve - have 10 gal Al pot now) - use counterflow or pump wort through immersion in ice bath?
 - Any cheaper options?
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: beer_crafter on August 08, 2011, 08:41:47 PM
I think your best bet is to use the march pump to recirculate the wort while you use your IC.  Turbulance is an important variable in the use of an IC.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 08, 2011, 09:36:07 PM
One is limited by the tap water temp this time of year.  Mine is at 68F now and will rise some more.

A pond pump in an ice bath, pushing ice water through the chiller is a good option once the wort is at 100F.  Tap water to 100F, then the ice water.

Edit: Harbor Freight has the best prices that I have seen on a high flow rate submersable pump.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: phillamb168 on August 10, 2011, 07:45:57 AM
For recirc on the wort, wouldn't that stir up the break material? Or do you plan for that falling through the false bottom or something? I've considered the following modification of my setup for better and more environmentally-friendly cooling:

IC goes into wort, ice water is circulated via pond/aquarium pump through IC and then through the water cooling portion of a plate chiller. second pump pushes wort through the plate chiller and recircs into the kettle.

This seems like a much better option than what I'm currently using, which is basically wasting a ton of water.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: punatic on August 10, 2011, 08:18:09 AM
This seems like a much better option than what I'm currently using, which is basically wasting a ton of water.

Use rainwater for cooling.  That way you catch free water and divert it to do some work for you before it ends up going where it was headed for in the first place.  No waste - no worries.

Two or four 55 gallon drums (208L for you Euro types) collecting from roof gutter downspouts will fill quickly with a moderate rain.  A small pump to push it through your coil will do the trick.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: phillamb168 on August 10, 2011, 11:52:29 AM
This seems like a much better option than what I'm currently using, which is basically wasting a ton of water.

Use rainwater for cooling.  That way you catch free water and divert it to do some work for you before it ends up going where it was headed for in the first place.  No waste - no worries.

Two or four 55 gallon drums (208L for you Euro types) collecting from roof gutter downspouts will fill quickly with a moderate rain.  A small pump to push it through your coil will do the trick.

But will a pond pump work? What sort of resistance am I going to get from a plate chiller AND an IC? Seems like it might be a lot, but then again I'm not a fluid dynamics expert
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: punatic on August 10, 2011, 02:34:18 PM
Hook it up and see what kind of flow you get.  It's more about the cooling water's velocity through the tubing than anything else.  If it"s too slow it will just take longer to cool the wort, or you could get a bigger pump.  If it's too fast you can throttle it with a ball valve on the outlet side of the pump.  Either way you are taking advantage of a free resource, rainwater.  If you really want to be green you can design a heat recovery system and put the waste heat to work on something else (like warming the chafing dishes you use to serve food to your friends who come to help brew).  ;)
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: majorvices on August 10, 2011, 04:48:22 PM
You can get a cheap pump at Harbor Freight that will beat the hell out of the March pump, as long as you are not using it hot or in contact with the beer. that said, I agree with the above poster who suggests recircing the wort with your march pump during chilling. It doesn't take a massive amount of water moving through your chiller to chill effectively. At some point you are just wasting water.

That said, during summer I can't get my wort chilled down far enough with just my chiller. I run off into the carboy/bucket and cool over night and pitch the next morning. I have never had an issue doing so.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: rjharper on August 10, 2011, 06:18:39 PM
I use a single immersion chiller with a 200 gph pond pump from Lowes that cost about $40.  I push cold water through it to lower the initial temp then recirculate ice water to get down to 65F.  Takes about 15 mins.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: phillamb168 on August 11, 2011, 09:59:47 AM
So I recirc the wort too, that sounds good, but should I be worried about break material?
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: Mark G on August 11, 2011, 01:12:34 PM
So I recirc the wort too, that sounds good, but should I be worried about break material?
The simple solution, if you have some extra time, would be just to let everything settle for 30 or so minutes after chilling down to your desired temp. Then just drain the wort from above the break material.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: phillamb168 on August 11, 2011, 01:45:41 PM
So I recirc the wort too, that sounds good, but should I be worried about break material?
The simple solution, if you have some extra time, would be just to let everything settle for 30 or so minutes after chilling down to your desired temp. Then just drain the wort from above the break material.

Ah, yeah, that would work. Heh. Thanks!
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 11, 2011, 01:48:21 PM
So I recirc the wort too, that sounds good, but should I be worried about break material?

No worries.  Return the wort in a fashion that sets up a whirlpool, and you are whirlpooling while chilling.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on September 08, 2011, 03:09:37 PM

That said, during summer I can't get my wort chilled down far enough with just my chiller. I run off into the carboy/bucket and cool over night and pitch the next morning. I have never had an issue doing so.

Others turn their noses up at this... but I am forced to do it during the summer and also haven't had any issues.
Title: Re: Using March Pump to Boost Water Pressure
Post by: James Lorden on September 08, 2011, 03:41:53 PM
Others turn their noses up at this... but I am forced to do it during the summer and also haven't had any issues.

Not sure why anyone would turn there nose up at this.  So long as your sanitation is in check then I'd say this is way better then pitching too hot!