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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: sharg54 on August 13, 2011, 03:04:57 PM

Title: Beer in Europe...
Post by: sharg54 on August 13, 2011, 03:04:57 PM
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: corkybstewart on August 13, 2011, 04:03:28 PM
I kind of dragged my wife to Germany about 4 years ago for a 10 day beer tour.  Two years later she insisted we go again for at least 2 weeks.  She's not a beer geek by any means, and growing up in France she was mostly exposed to crappy Euro lagers, but she really found her place in Germany. To her the paler beers like the Helles and Pilsners, and especially Kolsch are what beer is supposed to taste like.  She tried everything, even the rauchbiers in Bamberg and eis bocks in Bavaria.  Strangely her least favorite style in Germany was the hefeweizens.
Enjoy your trip over there, it really is a wonderful country.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 13, 2011, 04:57:12 PM
You might be able to find some Gose in that part of Germany.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on August 13, 2011, 05:07:09 PM
I was in Munich for a few days back in 2001.  Boy, do I wish I could go back with the knowledge/palate I have now!!  Someday...

Have a great time!
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: tschmidlin on August 14, 2011, 03:58:23 AM
I really enjoyed Watzke Brauereiausschank, the beer was pretty good and the atmosphere was nice.

Good breakfast of Vienna sausages at Brauhaus am Waldschlösschen in the afternoon . . .

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6jiI2s6ykhc/TkdGLMUdj8I/AAAAAAAAAMw/FBCDrg5koy4/IMG00153-20091212-1230.jpg)

And you owe it to yourself to go by this place, if only for the story.  The beer was fine, the bar was a bit smokey and small with only regulars there playing cards when I walked in.  No "ass" around that I saw. ;D

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MWxkA3Wi72Y/TkdGPuSEyoI/AAAAAAAAANE/s9Qa8u7cr0I/s640/IMG00149-20091211-2002.jpg)
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: sharg54 on August 14, 2011, 07:55:43 AM
I'm going to have to make a list of everything to keep up with it all... So much to try and a lot of local brewries around here. Hope to get in and talk with one of the brewmasters about german brewing practice. Going down to Prog on monday and a taste of the real Pilsner Urquell rather than the state side brand. I'm told its aged six months in wood casks before they even tap it so this should be a real treat...  I think I"m falling in love with Bock ... The rich malt taste and light hoping is just perfect. Almost would call it a brakefast beer... Really puts the oooooo in smoth :P
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: malzig on August 14, 2011, 02:05:21 PM
I'm going to have to make a list of everything to keep up with it all... So much to try and a lot of local brewries around here. Hope to get in and talk with one of the brewmasters about german brewing practice. Going down to Prog on monday and a taste of the real Pilsner Urquell rather than the state side brand. I'm told its aged six months in wood casks before they even tap it so this should be a real treat...  I think I"m falling in love with Bock ... The rich malt taste and light hoping is just perfect. Almost would call it a brakefast beer... Really puts the oooooo in smoth :P
Prague?  Make sure you drink some of the Tmave (the Czech version of Dunkle/Schwarzbier) while you're there.  Dark beer is the traditional beer of Prague, just like Munich, due to their hard water; the Pilsner came from... well, Pilz, down the road a bit.

Some say that the Tmavy at U FlekĂ» is the best dark lager in the world.  I think that's highly debatable, but that and many others in Prague are near the top of the list.

There are also some great amber lagers, similar to Vienna Lager, in the Czech Republic.  Unfortunately, they are harder to track down.  You can usually get a selection of harder to get Czech beer at the pub Pivovarsky Klub.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: denny on August 14, 2011, 02:09:58 PM
I'm told its aged six months in wood casks before they even tap it so this should be a real treat...

I'd be really curious to know if this is true or a myth.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: sharg54 on August 14, 2011, 09:31:47 PM
Well when I find out I'll be most happy to let you know... You know how rumor control works.  :P
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: malzig on August 14, 2011, 11:10:37 PM
I'm told its aged six months in wood casks before they even tap it so this should be a real treat...
I'd be really curious to know if this is true or a myth.
That's a good question.
It seems funny to me that homebrewers often try to lager Pilsners for months, when German breweries try to get them into a glass as quick as possible, while the flavors and aromas are still fresh.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: Titanium Brewing on August 16, 2011, 03:59:10 AM
I was in Prague last month. Went to this place. http://www.klasterni-pivovar.cz/en/ (http://www.klasterni-pivovar.cz/en/). They had one of only 2 IPA's I had in the whole region. BTW, Pilsner Urquell is cheaper than bottled water.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: gimmeales on August 18, 2011, 06:22:01 PM
I've also been to Klasterni while in Prague a few years ago - they weren't making anything like IPA then, but their unfiltered dark and light lagers were fantastic (with a local meat and cheese plate, mmmmm).  Great vibe in the both the pub and that part of town overlooking the city.  Can't wait to go back!
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: sharg54 on August 30, 2011, 11:09:06 PM
Ok just got back from Plzen and the Pilsner Urquell brewery and the mith is confermed...Its not aged for six months in wood casks. In fact it hasn't been aged in wood form 1989... If you want the origional brew you have to take the tour. That is still fermented in Oak barrels for two weeks at 50 degrees and than aged in oak casks for another 3 weeks at 45 degrees. The plant has been totaly modernized and every thing is done in stainless steel with the exception of the actual brewing process. it is still a 3 step decoction mash that takes 3 hours to compleat and a 90 min boil at 600 Degrees. They say the high heat causes a carmalization ( most likely spelled wrong) in the bottom of the kettle that accounts for the color and the taste of the malt. Only 3 hops additions are used as well. The origional brew has a good clean malt flavor with just a hint of hops and a very slight hops aroma. (http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296771_268198959874568_100000533976242_1000965_3601012_n.jpg) The picture is the old process they used to use of open fermenting in oak barrels. This is reserved for guests of the plant only and is no longer a part of the brewing practice... I have to admit is was quit an eye opener. It's a single malt brew using there own 6 row pilsner malt with very little hops added so if your going to duplicate it I would have to say you have to think a little is a lot. By that I would say single malt selection, easy on the hops stick to a 3 step decoction mash and boil as hot as you can for 90 mins. This is a very basic beer that came out quite well. Use very soft water and don't over think it and you should get very close. Oh and by the way what we get in the states taste nothing like the real deal... (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/313696_268193963208401_100000533976242_1000960_613835_n.jpg) Pic of the old Keg Line and the origional brew house. (http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319403_268191436541987_100000533976242_1000953_3821706_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: sharg54 on August 30, 2011, 11:30:36 PM
Just as a side note...
Quote
It seems funny to me that homebrewers often try to lager Pilsners for months, when German breweries try to get them into a glass as quick as possible, while the flavors and aromas are still fresh
they are not German.. There Boheams like me. And yes you can pick up a six pack of Pilsner Urquell for about 2 bucks or 150 Krona. (spelled wrong but pronounced that way) Over here beer is cheeper than water or soda or any thing else you can think of. And I'm still confused about the Dunkel.... That is Dark in German... So most any dark beer can be a Dunkel if you think about it. Oh well the joys of home brewing.... ;D
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on August 31, 2011, 12:01:28 AM
Glad you had a great time.

Currency is Koruna but close enough. Yes Czechs are not Germans. They are "Bohemians" :).

As far as water is concern. Pilsner style beer is brewed all over Czech and Slovak Republic. It might be tru that Plzen has a soft water but other cities might not. Because Czech and Slovak repoblic are on continental divide water is from soft to moderate in hardness. What I am trying to say is do not loose sleep over the water and do not go crazy with destilled / RO water. After all you are making "Bohemian" beer.

Cierne pivo has most likely origination in Munich Dunkel but "Bohemians" made it more caramely / sweet. 
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: beersk on August 31, 2011, 01:33:34 AM
Awesome.  I should try harder to embrace my Czech heritage by brewing some bohemian pilsners and whatnot.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: tschmidlin on August 31, 2011, 03:05:45 AM
a 90 min boil at 600 Degrees. They say the high heat causes a carmalization ( most likely spelled wrong) in the bottom of the kettle that accounts for the color and the taste of the malt.
Is it a steam fired kettle?  They're not getting the wort up to 600F obviously, do you know how they were measuring the temperature?

I didn't know they used 6-row either, thanks for that tidbit. :)
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: sharg54 on August 31, 2011, 08:35:36 AM
Quote
Is it a steam fired kettle?  They're not getting the wort up to 600F obviously, do you know how they were measuring the temperature?

No it is a Gas fired kettle. Most likely they are talking about the bottom of it and would not say how they were taking the temp. or go into much detail about the process. When the questions got to deep the guide sort of changed the subject or could not comment at all and smiled.  ::) What I could get out of her was its a gas fired kettle at 600 degrees, a single malt is used and they still use a 3 step decoction that takes 3 hours to finish and it goes through a 90 min boil with just 3 hop additions but I could not get the times or amounts of hops..  :-\
Quote
As far as water is concern. Pilsner style beer is brewed all over Czech and Slovak Republic. It might be tru that Plzen has a soft water but other cities might not. Because Czech and Slovak repoblic are on continental divide water is from soft to moderate in hardness. What I am trying to say is do not loose sleep over the water and do not go crazy with destilled / RO water. After all you are making "Bohemian" beer.
I have to agree with this. I would not fuss to much over the water and worry more about the malts and hops used. My self I think I'm going to have to back down a bit on the Sazz next time around as it's a little over powering in my last batch. I normaly use 4 oz of hops but I think I'll back the flavor and aroma down by half and see what comes up. A decoction mash may be a good idea as well. The 90 min. boil has worked nicely to pull out the malt but I think adding a decoction mash will help improve the malt taste and bring out a deeper color. Well hope everyone liked the pics and info as for me I had a blast. On and no pics were to be taken so I had to do a little stelth work to get them. LOL... Darn Americans....   ::)
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 31, 2011, 01:03:34 PM
So Moravian malt is 6-row? 
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on August 31, 2011, 02:05:55 PM
So Moravian malt is 6-row? 
I think it is two row.
I could find out when I am there next time.
They do grow winter variety and spring variety of barley.
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: jeffy on August 31, 2011, 02:43:53 PM
So Moravian malt is 6-row? 
I think it is two row.
I could find out when I am there next time.
They do grow winter variety and spring variety of barley.
I think there may have been a couple points lost in translation, this and the boiling temperature.  I suppose 2-row European malt could be one of those things I've always taken for granted.
I found a nice history lesson about Briess when I tried to google Moravian malt:
http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/About/History.htm
Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 31, 2011, 02:46:57 PM
So Moravian malt is 6-row? 
I think it is two row.
I could find out when I am there next time.
They do grow winter variety and spring variety of barley.
I think there may have been a couple points lost in translation, this and the boiling temperature.  I suppose 2-row European malt could be one of those things I've always taken for granted.
I found a nice history lesson about Briess when I tried to google Moravian malt:
http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/About/History.htm
I had never heard that, so had to ask.
Some Google turned this up.  Weyermann's Bohemian Pils are the Hanka variety, which comes from-
"Most of our base malts are made from derivatives of the "Hanna" strain of two row barley from Germany and the Czech Republic." 
Source = Heater Allen Brewery in McMinnville OR.

Title: Re: Beer in Europe...
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on August 31, 2011, 03:46:40 PM
Hanka variety is Moravian barley.
Name is derived from Hana - Bohemian region where this barley is grown. It is around Olomouc.
Weyernmann buys Hanka and then malt it in Banberg.
To my opinion this malt is as close to bohemian malt you could get here in US but is is still too clean for real bohemian malt.
Bohemian malt is more chewy and more sweet then weyermann's Bohemian Pilsner malt.
I did not have chance to use Weyernmann floor malted Bohemian Pilsner malt.