Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

Other than Brewing => All Things Food => Topic started by: morticaixavier on August 22, 2011, 04:47:04 PM

Title: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 22, 2011, 04:47:04 PM
I just got a preasure canner! woohoo! gonna order 25 lbs of tomatoes while they are good and can them whole! What else? I like canned peaches but my wife doesn't gonna can starter wort. beans maybe? having canned black beans and refried would make life easier. Salsa would be cool but I can't imagine you can get it to stay really fresh tasting.

how bout y'all?
Title: Re: canning
Post by: bluesman on August 22, 2011, 04:52:53 PM
I usually can tomatoes, peppers, string beans, salsa, etc... I still have tomatoes leftover from last year, so I didn't can tomatoes, but I pickled jalapeno peppers, hot cherry peppers and sweet cherry peppers. Plus I made some scotch bonnet pepper sauce. It's going to be a warm winter in my house this year.  ;D
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 22, 2011, 05:42:11 PM
Great! I haven't done any canning per se but do have the mason jars and two pressure cookers. Not sure exactly how to do it. You must document pictorally... :D
Title: Re: canning
Post by: Hokerer on August 22, 2011, 06:00:56 PM
One word --  Chow-chow  (Ok, maybe that's two words :) )
Title: Re: canning
Post by: phillamb168 on August 22, 2011, 06:43:18 PM
One word --  Chow-chow  (Ok, maybe that's two words :) )

You an Arkansas boy?

...

I need to get my cucumbers started a-pickeling. I hope it's not too late and they've got thick skins. I'll eat them anyway.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: ryang on August 22, 2011, 07:25:49 PM
making my annual batch of smoked pickled okra today when I get home from work.

and, you don't need a pressure cooker for canning.  ;)
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 22, 2011, 08:09:40 PM
making my annual batch of smoked pickled okra today when I get home from work.

and, you don't need a pressure cooker for canning.  ;)

Hmmm okra. I love me some pickled okra. Have not had it smoked though.

True you don't need a preasure cooker for canning many things but there are a few with a Ph to high to ensure no botulism that are safest to process well above the 212* boiling water or steam processing can provide. For me one of the driving forces is whole peeled tomatoes. Some tomoatoes are acidic enough but some aren't.

Great! I haven't done any canning per se but do have the mason jars and two pressure cookers. Not sure exactly how to do it. You must document pictorally... :D
I will do my best! havn't really gotten around to starting a flickr account or whatever but we will see.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: tubercle on August 22, 2011, 10:22:14 PM
I've been canning all my life (got 4 pressure cookers including 2 of my Mom's). I learned the art from my mother and grandmother and have done about every vegatable there is.

 Corn, green beans, tomatoes and things made from tomatoes like soup mix and salsa stay the freshest tasting to me. YMMV.

 Don't forget that a pressure canner is not just for canning. I cook 2 or 3 meals a week using one.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 23, 2011, 02:38:11 AM
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 23, 2011, 05:14:57 AM
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?

my book says 2-3 inches of water
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 23, 2011, 06:21:08 AM
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?

my book says 2-3 inches of water

BooK? Which one?

Also with the lids on? More info!

Anyway, I like the idea of canning my own beans and soup. Stews and braised short-ribs. I think home-canned will taste better than commercial, which alway seems acidic to me no matter what is contained. Prepared and froze most of my tomato crop this year. Though not enough to last till next year.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 23, 2011, 06:30:16 AM
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?

my book says 2-3 inches of water

BooK? Which one?

Also with the lids on? More info!

Anyway, I like the idea of canning my own beans and soup. Stews and braised short-ribs. I think home-canned will taste better than commercial, which alway seems acidic to me no matter what is contained. Prepared and froze most of my tomato crop this year. Though not enough to last till next year.

just the book that came with the canner. It is the FAGOR home canning cookbook. (my last canning set was from ball so it came with the Ball Blue Book, I swear to god)

Yes with lids on. the basic procedure is (for pickles let's say cause I am more familiar)...

1) sterilize jars in boiling water
2) while they are still hot add cucumbers, peppers, tomatoes, okra (mmm okra) raw and washed.
3) pour hot pickling liquid over to within .25 inches of rim. make sure no bubbles (they make little 'bubble removers' but I am sure you can figure something out)
4) wipe rim with clean towel
5) place the flat discy part of the two part lid in place. and then screw on the band but just barely tight.
6) place in canner, seal and heat to preasure. process for however long it says to in the book or recipe
Title: Re: canning
Post by: Hokerer on August 23, 2011, 12:54:44 PM
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?

You asking about the water inside or outside the canning jar?  If inside, it's like morticia says, fill it to within a quarter inch or so of the rim (I usually fill to the "shoulder" of the jar).  If outside, you only need enough water in the canner such that it doesn't all boil off before you're done - the steam is doing the work (my canner says to add 3 qts).
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 23, 2011, 05:48:45 PM
I've got a bunch of Hatch chiles that I roasted and peeled. Now I want to can most of them. Ideas of how much salt and lemon or lime juice to add per jar? Say half-pint jars.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 23, 2011, 05:51:53 PM
I've got a bunch of Hatch chiles that I roasted and peeled. Now I want to can most of them. Ideas of how much salt and lemon or lime juice to add per jar? Say half-pint jars.

From New Mexico State extention service

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_e/E-308.pdf (http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_e/E-308.pdf)

refering to green chilis but...

As a general rule you should find a tested recipe and follow it more or less exactly for canning as they are configured to prevent dangerous microbial contamination

**EDIT** another good resource with guidlines for lots of different preservation methods and ingredients http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/index.html (http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/index.html)
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 23, 2011, 06:42:01 PM
I'm seeing reccomendations to ONLY use established recipes. I see the benefit to this but question how people managed to can all manner of fruits and vegetables etc without said guidelines.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 23, 2011, 08:19:16 PM
I'm seeing reccomendations to ONLY use established recipes. I see the benefit to this but question how people managed to can all manner of fruits and vegetables etc without said guidelines.


I wonder that myself. Trial and Error? university studies? One answer is that alot of people died or got very sick before the guidlines were developed. But if you look it over you will see that there are basic Ph levels that must be met (boiling water v. preasure) and various processing times required for optimal safety. If making an actuall recipe I think the guidline is to base your method selection and processing time on the ingredient that is most sensitive eg. if you are canning chili use the times and methods laid out for canning meat (or means in non-meat chili)
Title: Re: canning
Post by: MDixon on August 23, 2011, 09:07:40 PM
If the lid wasn't concave, people threw out the food...period...

Title: Re: canning
Post by: tubercle on August 23, 2011, 11:40:46 PM
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?

You asking about the water inside or outside the canning jar?  If inside, it's like morticia says, fill it to within a quarter inch or so of the rim (I usually fill to the "shoulder" of the jar).  If outside, you only need enough water in the canner such that it doesn't all boil off before you're done - the steam is doing the work (my canner says to add 3 qts).

 I only put about 3 inches of water in mine. Let it come to a boil with the vent open and let it steam about 10 minutes to evacuate all the air and then put the weight on to start building pressure.

 You need to have a rack that goes in the bottom so the jars do not sit directly on the bottom of the pot.

 BTW...do not start timing until the proper pressure has been reached.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: tubercle on August 23, 2011, 11:49:42 PM

Also with the lids on?

Yes, with the lids on; that is the whole purpose.

 Just don't tighten the rings too much. About all the pressure you can get with the thumb and index finger. The purpose of the rings is to hold the lids in place until they seal. After 24 hours and the jars have cooled completely you can take the rings off.

 Here is one source of the USDA publications:

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 24, 2011, 07:30:03 AM
Yeah I don't know why I asked that.

My 6qt Fagor pressurizes up 15psi and 250F. This ought to be enough to pressure-can low acid foods.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 24, 2011, 03:18:58 PM
Yeah I don't know why I asked that.

My 6qt Fagor pressurizes up 15psi and 250F. This ought to be enough to pressure-can low acid foods.

it sure ought!

Check out that USDA canning guide for times and preasure. and altitude adjustments. you probably don't need to go all the way up to 15 psi and your food will get less mushy if you keep the time and temp minimum.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 26, 2011, 08:53:54 AM
I just tried to pressure-can. A trial run. Prepared some green chile salsa and filled five boiled 1/2 pint jars. Tightened the rings finger tight and PC'd on a trivet in about 1" water for 15 minutes with a 10 minute natural release.

Only one jar survived.

The rest leaked real bad and when cooled the rings gave way very easily.

I could have tightened them more but stopped just past the first snugness. Maybe another 5-10 degrees?

Interestingly, the salsa turned out good- the flavors melded and it isn't too mushy. Hot fire in my belly. :)
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 26, 2011, 05:43:26 PM
cool. it's a start. I to tested my preasure canner last night with three pint jars of starter wort. worked like a charm.

Was the salsa hot or cold when it went in the jars? if cold that might have causes the leakage as the expansion from heat made the jars overfull. also make sure to remove bubbles for the same reason.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 26, 2011, 05:51:55 PM
cool. it's a start. I to tested my preasure canner last night with three pint jars of starter wort. worked like a charm.

Was the salsa hot or cold when it went in the jars? if cold that might have causes the leakage as the expansion from heat made the jars overfull. also make sure to remove bubbles for the same reason.

Warm. I rapped the little jars against the cutting board to settle the contents before capping, but if there were bubbles I didn't see them. Doesn't mean they weren't in there. Probably multiple mistakes.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 26, 2011, 06:14:09 PM
cool. it's a start. I to tested my preasure canner last night with three pint jars of starter wort. worked like a charm.

Was the salsa hot or cold when it went in the jars? if cold that might have causes the leakage as the expansion from heat made the jars overfull. also make sure to remove bubbles for the same reason.

Warm. I rapped the little jars against the cutting board to settle the contents before capping, but if there were bubbles I didn't see them. Doesn't mean they weren't in there. Probably multiple mistakes.

hmm, well this will be a learning experience for me to. I have canned in a water bath but this is the first time I have done preasure canning. The wort is probably easy cause it was near boiling when it went into the jars and it's harder to get air bubbles in a water type liquid with no solid. Got really good hot break though . The wort was much clearer after the canning than before.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: tubercle on August 26, 2011, 10:07:38 PM
I just tried to pressure-can. A trial run. Prepared some green chile salsa and filled five boiled 1/2 pint jars. Tightened the rings finger tight and PC'd on a trivet in about 1" water for 15 minutes with a 10 minute natural release.

Only one jar survived.

The rest leaked real bad and when cooled the rings gave way very easily.

I could have tightened them more but stopped just past the first snugness. Maybe another 5-10 degrees?

Interestingly, the salsa turned out good- the flavors melded and it isn't too mushy. Hot fire in my belly. :)

 Sounds like you might have had the jars too full. Leave 1 inch of headspace - no more, no less. If the ingridents boil out and get between the lid and rim they won't seal. You can snug them down a little more also. The principle is the air escapes out when boiling and then seals and creates a vaccum as it cools. If the rings are cinched down too tight the air can't escape and real tight will distort the sealing surface and keep them from sealing.

 Start with hot jars and hot ingredients. Put the jars in boiling water. If you don't have an extra pot that big, fill the jars with water and sit them in a pot with at least water half way up and bring to a boil. Start with cold water inside and out to prevent cracking. If you have a big pot put the jars on their sides and boil. Start with cold again for the same reason.

 Be careful of the hot jars and water. Get you one of these if you are taking this seriously. It will save your hide. It has all the handy tools you need.
http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-286-5-Piece-Canning/dp/B0002BF1WY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314395947&sr=8-1 (if you use this funnel and fill till the ingriedents touch the bottom then you will have the correct headspace)

 Dump the water, fill to within one inch of headspace, wipe the rims to make sure there is nothing on them, lid and ring.

 After cooking, let the cooker cool down and on its own and release pressure naturally. At this point it will be at 212f (or your boiling point depending on altitude so be careful). Don't release it manually or run cold water on it. That will also cause the contents to boil over.
 
 Take them out and leave the rings on and let them cool completely at least 12 hours. Set them on a towel and leave a couple of inches between them. The lids will "pop" concave in 10 - 30 minutes but they haven't pulled a complete vaccum until everything is room temp. If one doesn't seal, throw away the lid, wipe the rim and re-lid using a new one and try again. If you can't do it right away, then refridgerate and eat soon.

 Never reuse a lid. The rubber seal part is heat activated and it can't be reused.

 Try again, we'll get you canning yet :D
Title: Re: canning
Post by: brushvalleybrewer on August 27, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
I'm seeing reccomendations to ONLY use established recipes. I see the benefit to this but question how people managed to can all manner of fruits and vegetables etc without said guidelines.

I highly recommend the Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving (http://www.amazon.com/dp/077880139X) and the Ball Blue Book (http://www.amazon.com/Ball-Blue-Book-Guide-Preserving/dp/0972753702). It will take you years and more vegetables than you can shake a stick at to get through all the recipes in these two books. Good stuff, too.

They also include some basics on how and why, as well.

The thing to remember is that, while there are no known bugs that live in beer that will make you sick, that is not the case in general for canned food.

There are things that can live in you canned food that will create heat stable toxins that will still make you sick even though you cook it.

That’s why you want to use a tested recipe.

There’s also the USDA Complete Guide to Home Canning (http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html) if you want something you can read online.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 29, 2011, 04:45:18 PM
Well I spent the afternoon/evening yesterday canning tomatoes and sauce. Ended up with 9 quarts of tomatoes half full of tomatos and half full of water. I think they will still be fine, they all sealed but I think next time I will have to cook them down a little first.

also canned 3 pints of sauce made from the culls of the canning pile.those worked great.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: James Lorden on August 30, 2011, 09:12:38 PM
I rarely  buy a jar of tomatoe sauce anymore.  I generally make three gallons at a time and can it.  I usually make meatballs and sausage at the same time.  I freeze the meats in ziplocs that equal about a meal's woth and can the sauce.  Makes for great Sunday dinners!

I also always have canned chicken stock on hand.  I generally always buy whole chickens then butcher them myself (if in a rush for time you can usually ask the guy behind the meat counter to do this for you!).  I save the scraps until I have enough to make a stock, then I can the stock.... so easy to make a soup on a winter day.

I was thinking of making a stove top mash then canning the wort. Wondering if I should boil then can or just put wort right into the jars and boil as part of the canning process... guessing the latter would leave a lot of break material in the jar.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 30, 2011, 10:24:09 PM
II was thinking of making a stove top mash then canning the wort. Wondering if I should boil then can or just put wort right into the jars and boil as part of the canning process... guessing the latter would leave a lot of break material in the jar.

I did just this the other day. There is some break material in the jars but it is at the bottom so I suspect I will be able to pour it off. Next time though I will can a pint in a quart jar so I can just open it and pitch right into the jar. we will see. I might also reboil as it was never boiled open so I don't want too much DMS presurcor... precurser... stuff in my beer.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: euge on August 30, 2011, 10:54:20 PM
The wort just needs to be sterilized. So you can go right to the can from the mash- though I'd make sure there was an even distribution of sugar. Break material shouldn't matter in a starter.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: morticaixavier on August 30, 2011, 11:01:56 PM
The wort just needs to be sterilized. So you can go right to the can from the mash- though I'd make sure there was an even distribution of sugar. Break material shouldn't matter in a starter.

cool good to know. no worries about sugar distribution in this batch as it was actually three separate mashes with 4 oz of grain per mash. Testing some home malt modification processes. (trying to make a 5-6 Lovibond mild malt from a 2-3 lovibond pale ale malt without killing the enzymes.)
Title: Re: canning
Post by: Hokerer on August 31, 2011, 01:01:20 AM
I was thinking of making a stove top mash then canning the wort. Wondering if I should boil then can or just put wort right into the jars and boil as part of the canning process... guessing the latter would leave a lot of break material in the jar.

I did the regular boil and then can thing the first time I canned wort and I wouldn't say the extra effort is worth it.  Even with boiling first, I guess the pressure canning process is such a good boil that I still got break material in the jars.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: boulderbrewer on August 31, 2011, 04:33:43 AM
Did 10 qts of chicken stock today, so the chickens are done for the year Yeah!  Now the ducks and trukeys and their stock to do. But it is a couple months away. Time to think veggies, tomatoes, pickles,corn, sauerkraut and some more dilly beans. nothing better than putting your own stuff up canning, freezing or drying.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: MDixon on August 31, 2011, 04:45:14 PM
When canning wort, don't boil first, runoff and can...

If you did boil, chill and can you would still end up with break material.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: phillamb168 on August 23, 2013, 09:07:38 AM
Resurrecting this thread. Just ordered an AA 921 (21 1/2 quarts) given that we have a lot more space for growing things now, I think it makes sense. Pretty excited at the concept of not having to go to the grocery store much over the winter, just like how things used to be, I suppose.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: redbeerman on August 23, 2013, 11:53:45 AM
That's some beast Phil.  I still use the 60 year old Presto my mom gave me.
Title: Re: canning
Post by: 1vertical on August 31, 2013, 09:38:13 PM
Can some Fresh caught trout filets. (skinless)
Pack filets into w.m. pints add a couple slices of jalapen0~ to each jar.
Add a teaspoon  of canning salt and a tablespoon of catalina dressing to each jar.
fill jars with fresh water to 1/2 inch headspace and pressure cook at
extension service recommended temperature and pressure for your altitude.
for 1.5 to 2 hours.....(meat preservation)

On a hot summer day with some cold beer and club crackers and a cheese platter
you will thank me.....
Title: Re: canning
Post by: redbeerman on September 01, 2013, 05:07:28 PM
Can some Fresh caught trout filets. (skinless)
Pack filets into w.m. pints add a couple slices of jalapen0~ to each jar.
Add a teaspoon  of canning salt and a tablespoon of catalina dressing to each jar.
fill jars with fresh water to 1/2 inch headspace and pressure cook at
extension service recommended temperature and pressure for your altitude.
for 1.5 to 2 hours.....(meat preservation)

On a hot summer day with some cold beer and club crackers and a cheese platter
you will thank me.....

Sounds pretty yummy 1V,  think about smoking them too maybe?
Title: Re: canning
Post by: 1vertical on September 01, 2013, 07:41:42 PM
Can some Fresh caught trout filets. (skinless)
Pack filets into w.m. pints add a couple slices of jalapen0~ to each jar.
Add a teaspoon  of canning salt and a tablespoon of catalina dressing to each jar.
fill jars with fresh water to 1/2 inch headspace and pressure cook at
extension service recommended temperature and pressure for your altitude.
for 1.5 to 2 hours.....(meat preservation)

On a hot summer day with some cold beer and club crackers and a cheese platter
you will thank me.....

Sounds pretty yummy 1V,  think about smoking them too maybe?
Redbeerman, I dont much care for trout any other way. I really hate trying to get
around those little rib/hair bones.  This method yeilds totally edible result bones and all!!
(I would prefer smoked whitefish as it is much less "fishy" tasting)