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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: oscarvan on August 29, 2011, 05:40:01 PM

Title: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on August 29, 2011, 05:40:01 PM
Here's the mission: (10 gallon batches)

After the boil I want the wort out of the BK, and into a chiller asap. (Doing multiple batches and tying up the BK slows me down.)
Also, I want the chiller to be fast, and have a conical bottom so I can easily separate the wort from the trub, with a minimum of loss. The outlet of the BK is about 20" above the ground so we will have to go "uphill"....

Ideally, I would pump it into a stainless, jacketed, 15 gallon conical vessel, with chilled water/glycol running through the jacket.....

Problems.....

Temperature. Is there a pump that can handle 200º wort? How about hoses?

Cost.....

I have found plastic conical vessels, but they are good for 140-170º and I hate pushing the limit on that.....never knows what end up in your beer.....

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: tschmidlin on August 29, 2011, 05:43:32 PM
You could do all of that oscar . . . or you could just get another boil kettle.  I think I know what I would do. :)
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on August 29, 2011, 05:49:20 PM
I can't lift a 100 pound 200º BK and move it around....So, what you're saying is I need to put a third burner with Keggle on my rig? Hmmmmmm..........

Meanwhile.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACTIVEAQUA-WATER-CHILLER-1-10-HP-93-GAL-TANKS-RES-/360173311062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53dc009456#ht_552wt_1348
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: tschmidlin on August 29, 2011, 06:06:29 PM
I wouldn't advise moving a full kettle!  Yes, I meant adding a burner and keggle.

With the chiller you linked to I'd worry about the temp going in and the capacity - "35 gallons-30 deg F pull down temp "

30F lower isn't going to be enough.

You could always get a big old plate chiller . . .
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on August 29, 2011, 06:52:56 PM
And an ice tub and a circulation pump..... have any good links for a good plate chiller?
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on August 29, 2011, 08:11:01 PM
OK, some more thoughts, some more questions.

When the wort cools, undisturbed the hops and hot an cold break all sit nicely in the bottom as the green spooge layer (hops, pellets no bag) and the protein.....lets say it looks like cauliflower. The wort is nice and clear.

If I were to, immediately after flameout, run the wort through a plate chiller, whilst stirring so everything goes through there, and then into a conical vessel and let it sit, would, at the lower temperature the hops and proteins still settle out?
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: Hokerer on August 29, 2011, 08:15:34 PM
OK, some more thoughts, some more questions.

When the wort cools, undisturbed the hops and hot an cold break all sit nicely in the bottom as the green spooge layer (hops, pellets no bag) and the protein.....lets say it looks like cauliflower. The wort is nice and clear.

If I were to, immediately after flameout, run the wort through a plate chiller, whilst stirring so everything goes through there, and then into a conical vessel and let it sit, would, at the lower temperature the hops and proteins still settle out?

Yes, they'd settle out IF they made it to the conical.  Heard of plenty of problems with spooge (great term) clogging a plate chiller.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: blatz on August 29, 2011, 08:19:32 PM
I guess I don't understand what the problem is - if you use a (CFC or PC) + Pump, you can be chilled and in the fermenter in <10min for a 10gal batch.  Are you running that tight a ship that 10min is crucial?

Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on August 30, 2011, 03:33:32 PM
I guess I don't understand what the problem is - if you use a (CFC or PC) + Pump, you can be chilled and in the fermenter in <10min for a 10gal batch.  Are you running that tight a ship that 10min is crucial?



No, right now it's taking an hour plus. And, I end up throwing out a gallon of wort in the bottom of the keggle to keep out the trub. So, I'm solving two problems at once....

Clogging a plate chiller is not something I want to experience....
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: bluesman on August 30, 2011, 04:30:39 PM
I guess I don't understand what the problem is - if you use a (CFC or PC) + Pump, you can be chilled and in the fermenter in <10min for a 10gal batch.  Are you running that tight a ship that 10min is crucial?



No, right now it's taking an hour plus. And, I end up throwing out a gallon of wort in the bottom of the keggle to keep out the trub. So, I'm solving two problems at once....

Clogging a plate chiller is not something I want to experience....


The way to avoid clogging the chiller is to whirlpool (which I believe Paul does) for about ten minutes prior to chilling. This will add ten more minutes to the process but will avoid clogging the chiller.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: Kit B on August 30, 2011, 05:56:25 PM
March hi-temp pumps are supposed to handle 250* & Duda Diesel makes some sweet chillers.

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=HX1240BWC
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on August 30, 2011, 07:58:22 PM
Homebrewers march pump.
Duda diesel for plate chillers.
Whirlpool for 10 minutes let settle for 10 minutes.
You could also use a strainer before chiller.
Those are about $150 thou.

The last thing. More sophisticated equipment you have
more time you will spend cleaning it.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on September 02, 2011, 06:54:37 PM
OK, ordered a stainless conical vessel with lid today..... Will give it legs, the mother of all cooing coils inside and a dump valve at the bottom. Get the march pump to pump wort from BK to WC (Wort Cooler) right at flame out. Cool and drain the trub from the bottom of the cone, then fill the buckets....meanwhile the BK has been rinsed out and is receiving the next batch. I should be able to take 2-3 hours off my double-double batch brew day......
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: James Lorden on September 06, 2011, 08:26:04 PM

The way to avoid clogging the chiller is to whirlpool (which I believe Paul does) for about ten minutes prior to chilling. This will add ten more minutes to the process but will avoid clogging the chiller.

Often I whirlpool while I'm chilling with the thermenator.  The wort in the pot is still around 200 degrees so I have no issues keeping the beer swirling with a stainless spoon for most of the chill untill there's just a little beer left.

A hopback such as the Blichmann Hop Rocket can also be used to keep gook out of the plate chiller.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: blatz on September 06, 2011, 08:54:09 PM
OK, ordered a stainless conical vessel with lid today..... Will give it legs, the mother of all cooing coils inside and a dump valve at the bottom. Get the march pump to pump wort from BK to WC (Wort Cooler) right at flame out. Cool and drain the trub from the bottom of the cone, then fill the buckets....meanwhile the BK has been rinsed out and is receiving the next batch. I should be able to take 2-3 hours off my double-double batch brew day......

If I read this right, you are buying a conical simply to cool wort? there are much cheaper (and easier to clean/sanitize) ways to chill wort than that.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on September 06, 2011, 10:21:48 PM
OK, ordered a stainless conical vessel with lid today..... Will give it legs, the mother of all cooing coils inside and a dump valve at the bottom. Get the march pump to pump wort from BK to WC (Wort Cooler) right at flame out. Cool and drain the trub from the bottom of the cone, then fill the buckets....meanwhile the BK has been rinsed out and is receiving the next batch. I should be able to take 2-3 hours off my double-double batch brew day......

If I read this right, you are buying a conical simply to cool wort? there are much cheaper (and easier to clean/sanitize) ways to chill wort than that.

Not buying a 'spensive conical fermenter, If it's called something else and not brewing related it's suddenly cheaper....... and not just chilling. Chilling AND separating the trub, while freeing up the BK....

Check here: http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products/hoppers/priceList.asp

BTW, these CAN be used to make an inexpensive conical fermenter.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: maxieboy on September 07, 2011, 11:14:53 PM
10g from boil to ale pitch temp in 10 min here. Therminator, gravity feed(2 ft. of head), self fabbed hop strainer(214 sq. in area), give the wort a good swirl. No worries about trub to fermentor(mostly cold break, tons of hot break left in BK), never a hint of a clog. I could probably use all pellet but haven't yet. Lotsa 10g IPA batches w/8-12 or more oz of hops in boil and have used 1- 1 1/2 oz whole hops to aid in straining. As always, YMMV. 
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on September 08, 2011, 02:27:49 AM
Check here: http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products/hoppers/priceList.asp
Boy you are handy.
Good for you.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on September 11, 2011, 03:23:38 AM
OK it's done..... Just put it all together. Was going to use a service cart, but not enough height to gravity feed into the buckets. (I like the splashing for aeration purposes.) So I'm walking around HD and see saw horses with extendable legs....nice and tall! That was it....... Did water only runs today, brewing tomorrow. Will see how that pans out.

(http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/Wort_Cooler_Separator_files/DSCN0109.jpg)
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: Jimmy K on September 12, 2011, 01:11:30 PM
I can't lift a 100 pound 200º BK and move it around....

Wimp ...

just kidding
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: dak0415 on September 12, 2011, 02:26:18 PM
I can't lift a 100 pound 200º BK and move it around...

Even if you could, I wouldn't have much confidence in the handles.  Now I could see pot and burner on casters.
Title: Re: Chilling the wort......
Post by: oscarvan on September 12, 2011, 03:04:36 PM
OK, did a first brew with the new setup yesterday....... (two ten gallon batches)

First and foremost..... Getting the wort out of the BK so it's ready for the next batch makes a HUGE difference.... Although I managed to time the strike temp on the second batch and flame out on the first one to be within seconds of each other.... :o A little multi tasking there.... In the end it took an hour off the brew day, and the kettle sat vacant for a half hour, so I can tighten that up some more. I don't mind letting things sit at the end, when I can go into the house and do other things, but the active slopping around I like to keep under 8 hours. I did.

The pump works. The high temp hoses are a little wimpy....they kink easily.

The chilling was awesome. Even though the water coming out of the tap was in the 60's (it runs through the house before it goes back underground and to the barn) I got the whole batch to low 70's in under 30 minutes.... Plus, no huge hurry as the next batch still has to sparge, boil etc....

Trub separation was not as awesome as I thought it would be. Got most of it out, but it still cost me 1/2 gallon and then during the last two gallons some more spit out.... Seems the wort channels through the trub in the bottom, and then at the end the last of it on the walls lets loose..... May have to let it sit longer and still use a strainer.

Overall pretty darn happy with it.