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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: gmac on September 01, 2011, 03:55:19 PM

Title: My first Saison
Post by: gmac on September 01, 2011, 03:55:19 PM
I made my first Saison a few weeks ago and I'm not really sure what to think of it.  I used Wyeast French Saison yeast and it worked amazingly well (mostly Pilsner malt and 1 lb table sugar).  I also spiced it with coriander, dried orange peel, fresh ginger and peppercorns.  OG was 1.062 but the FG was 1.000 - does this seem right?

It's good, I think.  We don't get many Saison's around here so I have no commercial comparison but it is definitely a bit funkier than I'm used to.  My wife doesn't like it but there's a long list of things she doesn't like so I'm not that upset. 

I wish that there was someone I could send a bottle to so they could tell me if it's close to what it should be or if I'm way off the mark (border issues so don't all volunteer...)
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: bluesman on September 01, 2011, 03:59:44 PM
That's 100% attenuation so I think you may have made an error in your gravity reading at some point. That yeast is very attenuative but there is typically a small percentage of unfermentable sugars in the beer. What was your recipe and mash detail?
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: dbeechum on September 01, 2011, 04:03:37 PM
It's 100% Apparent, but still it's 82% real - so the residual sugar (according to Promash) is actually 1.011.

In reality, I think you're fine, but I would still question that second measurement.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: morticaixavier on September 01, 2011, 04:19:17 PM
I have had saisons with an FG of 1.002. If the mash temp was low enough and the sugar percentage high enough it seems possible. I have had meads ferment down to 0.98.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: bluesman on September 01, 2011, 04:30:21 PM
It really depends on the yeast strain, health of the yeast, amount of oxygen in the wort, wort fermentability and fermentation temp, etc.... Once we know all of this info we can further assess the situation.

I made a Saison last year using WLP566 with an OG = 1.055 and a FG = 1.004.

Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: tschmidlin on September 01, 2011, 04:47:28 PM
I know some judges in BC I can contact if you'd like, I don't know how much experience they have with saisons though.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: gmac on September 01, 2011, 04:53:15 PM
I pulled a sample from the keg and it's sitting out to warm and de-carbonate.  I'll shake it a bunch of times prior to re-doing the FG reading but who knows how much it being carbonated will impact things.  Hopefully I can get as much of the CO2 out as I can.
Recipe
7.5 lbs Weyerman Pilsner Malt
2.5 lbs Weyerman Munich II
1 lb table sugar
15L distilled water
15L tap water (my water is fairly hard but I've had good luck doing 50/50 mixes for lighter malt)
4 ml phosphoric acid - adjusted pH to 5.1 (should have used 3 ml)
50 g EKG hops at 60, 25 g EKG hops at 15, 30g Willamette leaf @ 0 - steeped for 15 min then cooled
Mashed at 150 for 60 mins.  90 min boil - Final volume 18L at 1.062.  Two week fermentation at 68-70 F
Anything else I should have mentioned?  Spices - 1 tbsp Indian Coriander, zest of 1 grapefruit, 4g fresh grated ginger, 15 peppercorns
Thanks
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: gmac on September 01, 2011, 04:57:30 PM
I know some judges in BC I can contact if you'd like, I don't know how much experience they have with saisons though.
Thanks Tom.  Maybe I'll smuggle a couple bottles over the States next week and then I can drop them in the mail if someone is interested in being a guinea pig.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: bluesman on September 01, 2011, 05:03:06 PM
I pulled a sample from the keg and it's sitting out to warm and de-carbonate.  I'll shake it a bunch of times prior to re-doing the FG reading but who knows how much it being carbonated will impact things.  Hopefully I can get as much of the CO2 out as I can.
Recipe
7.5 lbs Weyerman Pilsner Malt
2.5 lbs Weyerman Munich II
1 lb table sugar
15L distilled water
15L tap water (my water is fairly hard but I've had good luck doing 50/50 mixes for lighter malt)
4 ml phosphoric acid - adjusted pH to 5.1 (should have used 3 ml)
50 g EKG hops at 60, 25 g EKG hops at 15, 30g Willamette leaf @ 0 - steeped for 15 min then cooled
Mashed at 150 for 60 mins.  90 min boil - Final volume 18L at 1.062.  Two week fermentation at 68-70 F
Anything else I should have mentioned?  Spices - 1 tbsp Indian Coriander, zest of 1 grapefruit, 4g fresh grated ginger, 15 peppercorns
Thanks

Everything looks good. What does it taste like? Mouthfeel?
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: gmac on September 02, 2011, 12:17:15 AM
It tastes really good.  The mouthfeel is nice and I don't really notice the "oily" character that is supposed to be associated with this yeast.  The spicing is good and it feels appropriate for the beer.  In fact, if summer wasn't almost over, it would be a darn nice summer beer.  Not being a BJCP certified judge, I can't say for sure what the mouthfeel is (or at least I can't describe it properly) but I like it and so do others who've tried it. 
I sent Drew an email with a picture of my hydrometer reading (sorry, taken on my BB and I don't know how to send to a sharing site).  I think I'm reading it right.  Could be 1.002. 
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: andyi on September 02, 2011, 02:42:53 AM
..The mouthfeel is nice and I don't really notice the "oily" character that is supposed to be associated with this yeast... 

I have made 3 saisons this year using WY3711 and they have turned out great, all around 1.004 FG.

Not sure about "oily" character but this yeast is a very poor floculator - maybe yeasty character.  I leave in primary at least 3 weeks and still  cold crash.  I should have more patience but I'm not making frickin lambic here ;D

-Cheers
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: brewmichigan on September 02, 2011, 02:36:25 PM
I too have used 3711. That yeast is a monster!! I've had my saisons finish anywhere from 1.002 to 1.005 so 1.000 is not unheard of.

This yeast gives it a more peppery character which is apparently not right on with the BJCP style of saison. I got dinged in the latest comp for having a delicious beer but not quite to style. Still makes good beer though.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: dbeechum on September 02, 2011, 02:38:44 PM
This yeast gives it a more peppery character which is apparently not right on with the BJCP style of saison.

Don't get me started. :)
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: morticaixavier on September 02, 2011, 02:40:27 PM
This yeast gives it a more peppery character which is apparently not right on with the BJCP style of saison.

Don't get me started. :)

Drew just started reading your article on saison in zymurgy. I am enjoying so far. It is one of those situations where the style is really hard to collate into a simple set of standards.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: dbeechum on September 02, 2011, 03:11:23 PM
Yeah and it's become even more so as access to different Saisons has appeared.

I'm just happy the "style" exists at all.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: morticaixavier on September 02, 2011, 03:29:19 PM
here here. It is one of my favorites. It may well be my first attempt at a brett beer but we will see.
Title: Re: My first Saison
Post by: bluesman on September 02, 2011, 04:30:09 PM
This yeast gives it a more peppery character which is apparently not right on with the BJCP style of saison.

Don't get me started. :)

Drew just started reading your article on saison in zymurgy. I am enjoying so far. It is one of those situations where the style is really hard to collate into a simple set of standards.

....didn't read Drew's article yet but he certainly has the brewing skills to back up an article on Saisons. I had a few of his Saisons at NHC in San Diego that were excellent.